Werewolf LI Major League (GAME OVER!!! INDIANS--GOOD GUYS--WIN!!!) - Page 22

path12 · 08-10-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I resent that!!!

and coming from YOU of all people

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

It's screams bodyguard to me, you know, the role that's actually public rather than some hidden game mechanic you might be making up.

I think we both know that isn't the case.

You know it because you are fake revealing here - likely after having been converted.
I know it because I'm the target of your fake reveal.

If there was a bodyguard block to report, I highly doubt they would sit tight on the sidelines and let this have escalated to the point it has without helping us make a better decision.

path12 · 08-10-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cool, so why did I take such an active role in derailing Pass yesterday when we were playing together as wolves?

Seriously, I'm interested in this not just from the perspective of this game, but to understand just how twisted you guys think I am as a wolf.

Wolves toss other wolves under the bus all the time. You gained a lot of early trust with stepping up (which probably got you safe from scan in the first couple nights), and then to cement it you offer up Pass. I don't think it's a strange play at all as a wolf, especially if you did get a conversion last night. And I think it is 100% a play you would be willing to make.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 03:37 PM

I was hoping Jack would answer Post #1048 before returning to his droolers ... er, fans.

path12 · 08-10-2007, 03:38 PM

This has been a very fun game so far. OK, now I'm really out.

Lathum · 08-10-2007, 03:38 PM

I think it's more likely conversion, however if it was a BG block I think the smart play is to stay quiet.

If the BG reveals today they become a night target since the obvious wolf play is to go for Gonzo.

IF I was the BG I would protect Gonzo tonight, reveal tomorrow since they will have to kill Gonzo tomorrow you buy yourself more time.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

Wolves toss other wolves under the bus all the time. You gained a lot of early trust with stepping up (which probably got you safe from scan in the first couple nights), and then to cement it you offer up Pass. I don't think it's a strange play at all as a wolf, especially if you did get a conversion last night. And I think it is 100% a play you would be willing to make.

There would be zero need to do it in a game where the wolves have jumped to a 4-0 lead and have no meaningful pressure on them.

I don't think you are going to bother reading the first two days all over again, but I posted my suspicions of Pass on Day 1 before my vote, and then returned to this subject on Day 3 with my published trust list. I don't believe anyone mentioned him as a suspect at all in between those two posts. He was free and clear, and that isn't something that I just toss away as a wolf.

I'll look to ditch a troubled teammate if I think it is a better long-term play for our team, but I don't think that Pass or I were in any trouble at the time I started cranking up the heat on him. There was zero incentive to do this. I try really hard not to make zero-value plays in werewolf.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think it's more likely conversion, however if it was a BG block I think the smart play is to stay quiet.

If the BG reveals today they become a night target since the obvious wolf play is to go for Gonzo.

IF I was the BG I would protect Gonzo tonight, reveal tomorrow since they will have to kill Gonzo tomorrow you buy yourself more time.

Or the bodyguard can guard the next most likely candidate, hoping that the wolves won't go to Gonzo for fear of being blocked.

This is a really fun part of being the bodyguard. And a scenario that maps out to Cronin's "ideal play" scenario, where I usually end up having answers that are much more situation-driven than math-driven.

Lathum · 08-10-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I don't think you are going to bother reading the first two days all over again, but I posted my suspicions of Pass on Day 1 before my vote, and then returned to this subject on Day 3 with my published trust list. I don't believe anyone mentioned him as a suspect at all in between those two posts. He was free and clear, and that isn't something that I just toss away as a wolf.

so that when you were in this situation you could go back and try to use that to your advantage

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If there was a bodyguard block to report, I highly doubt they would sit tight on the sidelines and let this have escalated to the point it has without helping us make a better decision.

If I were the bodyguard and did block the wolf night kill, I'd argue for lynching you since there is no pressing need to reveal. It's pretty obvious you are a wolf, so it wouldn't make sense to reveal when you're going to be lynched anyway.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 03:45 PM

Sure, and I posted the list on Day 3, and pressured him to start on Day 3, so I could use that to my advantage, right?

I stepped it up each of the first two days to use it for my advantage, right?

I did all of this, while practically begging to be viewed with my high-profile actions and constant posting, as a wolf looking to earn trust, right?

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 03:47 PM

Gonzo, I'm glad you've been able to spend so much time in the thread today. In the 1.5 games you've played I've never seen you as active as you've been.

I'm sure it is because you want to make sure that we lynch a wolf, right? No other motivations, no concerns about having to massage your story if/when people actually start looking at the chain of events, right?

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 04:01 PM

Out for a couple of hours.

If people have any questions that they would like for me to respond to, please post them. I understand why you are following Gonzo here, but I don't have to like seeing you guys make a wrong decision. If there is anything that is unclear about my arguments, please allow me the opportunity to respond.

If there is nothing that I can say that will move you guys, then just go ahead and put in a Nightfall vote. Again, it is bad for the Indians to do so but we don't have to waste each others time on a Friday night when site participation is usually low already. If there are enough of them in there to where I can't win today, I'll put in the Nightfall as well if Chief's answer to my question does not exonerate me as a conversion candidate.

Lathum · 08-10-2007, 04:32 PM

Ouy until deadline.

If we are wrong sorry hoops

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 05:12 PM

I honestly believe hoops was a villager on days 1, 2, & 3, and was converted last night. His being the scout matches up all too well to his desire to see us win games. His pointing us towards pass, says the same.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 06:18 PM

So if Chief Rum comes back with an explanation for mechanic order that makes it impossible for me to have been converted last night, yet viewed as a villager by a seer, then I'm hoping you would change your vote.

And I'm hoping that there are enough other people around to do the same. Fact is, I don't think that Chief will comment on the game mechanics under these circumstances. I hope he will, but I also hoped that you would consider the issues with the reveal and that hasn't happened except for Torgo.

I hope you guys enjoy being taunted all weekend long by Gonzo once results are posted

PurdueBrad · 08-10-2007, 07:05 PM

Guys, I am gone until late, late tonight. Hoops, if we are wrong (me wrong for the second night in a row), I give you my sincerest apologies (and my embarrassment should be fun as well). Good luck guys, hope we're right.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 07:27 PM

Getting caught up on all of today's goodness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Well I'm dead. See you all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Alright then.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

For the reasons stated above, re the "when I'm a wolf I blame internet connections for not voting" thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Phew. I thought I'd been killed that night.

Anyway, I'm the Seer. Night one I scanned Lathum (good, no role), night two was Barkeep (good, no role) and night three was Hoopsguy (wolf).

In summary, I found it interesting that once DaddyTorgo was caught out with his "faulty internet connection" play, Hoopsguy jumped to defend him along with Ezarik. This leads me to believe that Torgo is a wolf, along with Hoopsguy and possibly JE.

I'll probably be scanning Ezarik next night to confirm his suspected wolfiness, so long as the Bodyguard wasn't protecting me this night. If by some miracle I survive after that, I might try out KWhit or that Parkman fellow.

Anyway.

UNVOTE DADDYTORGO (for now)
VOTE HOOPSGUY

I know he tried to explain this later, but what was his excuse again for believing that he had been killed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

After I got the PM saying you were a wolf, Chief Rum said: "Do me a favor and don't say anything (if you were planning to) until I post the night game action. I am writing right now. Thanks!". I thought I was a goner.

So what happened during the night PM? Why did you think you were dead? Were you attacked by the wolves or just happen to scan one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

As I was just saying to Cronin, it's probably Sod's law that the bodyguard's protected me last night and stopped them killing. Oh well.

If the BG protected you and you knew that from your PM, why did you think you were dead?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

It's screams bodyguard to me, you know, the role that's actually public rather than some hidden game mechanic you might be making up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

I'll probably be scanning Ezarik next night to confirm his suspected wolfiness, so long as the Bodyguard wasn't protecting me this night.

Which is it? Did the bodyguard protect you last night or not? Were you attacked last night or not?

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 07:30 PM

JE, have fun catching up with this. See you in a few.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

JE, have fun catching up with this. See you in a few.

I'm all caught up. I haven't read anything from Gonzo to persuade me. The thing that really gets me is him thinking that he's dead. If the PM made it clear that he was attacked and the bodyguard saved him, why did he think he was dead?

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 07:45 PM

Since you're in the thread, Gonzo, do you have an answer for me? If the bodyguard protected you last night and you know this from your PM, why did you think you had been killed?

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 07:45 PM

I may or may not have been attacked, I have no idea. I thought I was dead because Chief Rum told me not to say anything before the night actions had been posted.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

I may or may not have been attacked, I have no idea. I thought I was dead because Chief Rum told me not to say anything before the night actions had been posted.

How does that mesh with this?

Quote:

As I was just saying to Cronin, it's probably Sod's law that the bodyguard's protected me last night and stopped them killing. Oh well.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 07:51 PM

...what?

How do they contradict each other?

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 07:57 PM

Really? The second post about Sod's law sure makes it sound like you thought you were attacked last night and the bodyguard saved you.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Really? The second post about Sod's law sure makes it sound like you thought you were attacked last night and the bodyguard saved you.

*shrug*

Your guess is as good as mine.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

*shrug*

Your guess is as good as mine.

Pardon? You don't know what you meant when you said that the bodyguard must have protected you last night?

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Pardon? You don't know what you meant when you said that the bodyguard must have protected you last night?

I said that it would probably be my luck if the bodyguard did happen to protect me last night. It was a philosophical musing more than anything.

DaddyTorgo · 08-10-2007, 08:08 PM

guys...gonzo appears to clearly be full of it.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

guys...gonzo appears to clearly be full of it.

I don't think it matters for tonight's vote. Hoopsguy is going down. There aren't enough people around to change their votes, and I don't get the impression that they would even if they were around. Hell, I'm not even sure where I'm going to vote yet.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

guys...gonzo appears to clearly be full of it.

You would say that, since you are quite clearly Hoopsguy's packmate.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 08:19 PM

Jonathan, if you believe Gonzo is lying then vote for him. That will put it at 6-3. Who knows what the last 100 minutes might bring? But the chances of getting the right lynch only go down if you don't cast a vote. And you would also lose a step-it-up in the process, so get it in one way or the other.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And you would also lose a step-it-up in the process, so get it in one way or the other.

I guess that you used your last "step up" to sabotage the game last night.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 08:29 PM

I would like to have the opportunity to use my last step up tonight.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 08:45 PM

JE, KWhit - if you guys have questions about the positions, Gonzo and I are both around. I know I'll be happy to answer.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 08:49 PM

In thinking all this over dinner, I've come to a decision. I don't doubt that hoopsguy is the scout since no one has come out and claimed the role. I also don't doubt that Gonzo is the seer for the same reasons. Therefore since both are telling the truth, the question is: Which one could be evil?

I think the seer being evil/being converted is a horrible blow to the good guys and I just don't see that as being a game mechanic.

The scout, on the other hand, almost reads like an anti-seer. Which role does that benefit the most? The villagers? How does the scout knowing who the best players are benefit other villagers if he can't talk about it? Because once he mentions which players are more likely to win games, they become targets for the wolves.

So I don't see how it's a helpful role to the villagers, but it is a very helpful role for the wolves. Want to know who to take out with a night kill? How about the guy that has the best chance to win the game for us?

While I'm tempted to give hoopsguy a pass just because of his brilliant attempt to deflect blame, in the end I'm here to win the game.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 08:52 PM

Oh, and Gonzo, scan DT tonight. I'm willing to bet my life that he's a wolf. If he's not, you can lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure I am of his guilt.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 08:52 PM

JE, so be it. But there is no reason to think that one role could be converted and another role would be immune.

I'm not here to deflect blame, I'm also here to win the game. It looks like you guys get to try and do it without me.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Oh, and Gonzo, scan DT tonight. I'm willing to bet my life that he's a wolf. If he's not, you can lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure I am of his guilt.

I'm scanning you tomorrow. No need to waste a scan on someone who I'm 99% sure is a wolf.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

JE, so be it. But there is no reason to think that one role could be converted and another role would be immune.

Except I don't buy the conversion angle. The scout would start as a wolf.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Oh, and Gonzo, scan DT tonight. I'm willing to bet my life that he's a wolf. If he's not, you can lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure I am of his guilt.

See, that's the thing. There is almost no chance that he is a wolf given his steadfast defense of me today.

You aren't going to trust a single word that Gonzo says tomorrow, so telling him to scan Daddy Torgo is pretty useless. But I would encourage you to not turn towards DT as a default selection. Look at the people who made wrong votes on Passacaglia first. I know DT didn't make a vote there, but that is far better than voting for Lathum on that day.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

I'm scanning you tomorrow. No need to waste a scan on someone who I'm 99% sure is a wolf.

I'm confused again. Are you 99% sure I'm a wolf?

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

See, that's the thing. There is almost no chance that he is a wolf given his steadfast defense of me today.

Are you admitting that you're a wolf now?

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Except I don't buy the conversion angle. The scout would start as a wolf.

Then I've got yet another person who really has no idea how I would play as a wolf. I've argued time and time again that I would not be as destructive to my own team as my track record this game suggests (as a wolf). But everyone seems to believe "Hoops is crazy enough to do anything". I'm not - there are generally pretty straight-forward principles behind my actions.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

See, that's the thing. There is almost no chance that he is a wolf given his steadfast defense of me today.

The evidence for DaddyTorgo:

He used the play whereby he blamed faulty internet connection for not voting/being around at the deadline which he freely admitted in previous games he uses when he is a wolf.

As soon as me and the good Lathum pointed this out to the village, you instantly jumped to defend him (before I revealed).

After I revealed, he was the first to try and defend you.

You are now defending him again.

Seems pretty airtight to me.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

I'm confused again. Are you 99% sure I'm a wolf?

I'm a bit iffy with regards to you, but a scan'll clear things up.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Are you admitting that you're a wolf now?

Nope, and I'm not the seer either. But try to put yourself in the position of a wolf as you consider a vote. Why would he put himself out there like this, being the only person defending me?

When I die a villager, people will say "only a wolf could know that Hoops was a villager".

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

The evidence for DaddyTorgo:

He used the play whereby he blamed faulty internet connection for not voting/being around at the deadline which he freely admitted in previous games he uses when he is a wolf.

As soon as me and the good Lathum pointed this out to the village, you instantly jumped to defend him (before I revealed).

After I revealed, he was the first to try and defend you.

You are now defending him again.

Seems pretty airtight to me.

I was kind of confused reading along with last game. Have you played werewolf before FOFC?

Airtight - I do not think it means what you think it means.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But everyone seems to believe "Hoops is crazy enough to do anything". I'm not - there are generally pretty straight-forward principles behind my actions.

Trust me, I don't think your play is crazy. Maybe crazy like a fox, but not crazy. For example, you calling out Celeval on day one asking if he got his step up in right before we learned of his death is pretty clever. How do we know that his character is rated as high as you say it is? We have to take you for your word on that. And since you knew he was going to be the first wolf target, it was simple to call him out like that right before he died. Well, not simple, but smart. That takes some serious forethought and I applaud you.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:10 PM

JE, the easier explanation is that I've told the truth. Seriously, I just brought that out as a single example. If I showed you every example of a quote where I was giving info on being the scout, you would have to think I'm not just clever but compulsive to the point of being unhinged.

08-10-2007, 03:38 PM	#1055
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	This has been a very fun game so far. OK, now I'm really out. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

08-10-2007, 03:37 PM	#1054
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I was hoping Jack would answer Post #1048 before returning to his droolers ... er, fans.

08-10-2007, 03:38 PM	#1056
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I think it's more likely conversion, however if it was a BG block I think the smart play is to stay quiet. If the BG reveals today they become a night target since the obvious wolf play is to go for Gonzo. IF I was the BG I would protect Gonzo tonight, reveal tomorrow since they will have to kill Gonzo tomorrow you buy yourself more time.

08-10-2007, 03:45 PM	#1061
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Sure, and I posted the list on Day 3, and pressured him to start on Day 3, so I could use that to my advantage, right? I stepped it up each of the first two days to use it for my advantage, right? I did all of this, while practically begging to be viewed with my high-profile actions and constant posting, as a wolf looking to earn trust, right?

08-10-2007, 03:47 PM	#1062
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Gonzo, I'm glad you've been able to spend so much time in the thread today. In the 1.5 games you've played I've never seen you as active as you've been. I'm sure it is because you want to make sure that we lynch a wolf, right? No other motivations, no concerns about having to massage your story if/when people actually start looking at the chain of events, right?

08-10-2007, 04:01 PM	#1063
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Out for a couple of hours. If people have any questions that they would like for me to respond to, please post them. I understand why you are following Gonzo here, but I don't have to like seeing you guys make a wrong decision. If there is anything that is unclear about my arguments, please allow me the opportunity to respond. If there is nothing that I can say that will move you guys, then just go ahead and put in a Nightfall vote. Again, it is bad for the Indians to do so but we don't have to waste each others time on a Friday night when site participation is usually low already. If there are enough of them in there to where I can't win today, I'll put in the Nightfall as well if Chief's answer to my question does not exonerate me as a conversion candidate.

08-10-2007, 04:32 PM	#1064
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Ouy until deadline. If we are wrong sorry hoops

08-10-2007, 05:12 PM	#1065
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I honestly believe hoops was a villager on days 1, 2, & 3, and was converted last night. His being the scout matches up all too well to his desire to see us win games. His pointing us towards pass, says the same.

08-10-2007, 06:18 PM	#1066
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	So if Chief Rum comes back with an explanation for mechanic order that makes it impossible for me to have been converted last night, yet viewed as a villager by a seer, then I'm hoping you would change your vote. And I'm hoping that there are enough other people around to do the same. Fact is, I don't think that Chief will comment on the game mechanics under these circumstances. I hope he will, but I also hoped that you would consider the issues with the reveal and that hasn't happened except for Torgo. I hope you guys enjoy being taunted all weekend long by Gonzo once results are posted

08-10-2007, 07:05 PM	#1067
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Guys, I am gone until late, late tonight. Hoops, if we are wrong (me wrong for the second night in a row), I give you my sincerest apologies (and my embarrassment should be fun as well). Good luck guys, hope we're right.

08-10-2007, 07:30 PM	#1069
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	JE, have fun catching up with this. See you in a few.

08-10-2007, 07:45 PM	#1071
Jonathan Ezarik College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bossier City, LA	Since you're in the thread, Gonzo, do you have an answer for me? If the bodyguard protected you last night and you know this from your PM, why did you think you had been killed?

08-10-2007, 07:45 PM	#1072
Gonzo Mascot Join Date: Jul 2007	I may or may not have been attacked, I have no idea. I thought I was dead because Chief Rum told me not to say anything before the night actions had been posted.

08-10-2007, 07:51 PM	#1074
Gonzo Mascot Join Date: Jul 2007	...what? How do they contradict each other?

08-10-2007, 07:57 PM	#1075
Jonathan Ezarik College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bossier City, LA	Really? The second post about Sod's law sure makes it sound like you thought you were attacked last night and the bodyguard saved you.

08-10-2007, 08:08 PM	#1079
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	guys...gonzo appears to clearly be full of it.

08-10-2007, 08:19 PM	#1082
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Jonathan, if you believe Gonzo is lying then vote for him. That will put it at 6-3. Who knows what the last 100 minutes might bring? But the chances of getting the right lynch only go down if you don't cast a vote. And you would also lose a step-it-up in the process, so get it in one way or the other.

08-10-2007, 08:29 PM	#1084
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I would like to have the opportunity to use my last step up tonight.

08-10-2007, 08:45 PM	#1085
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	JE, KWhit - if you guys have questions about the positions, Gonzo and I are both around. I know I'll be happy to answer.

08-10-2007, 08:49 PM	#1086
Jonathan Ezarik College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bossier City, LA	In thinking all this over dinner, I've come to a decision. I don't doubt that hoopsguy is the scout since no one has come out and claimed the role. I also don't doubt that Gonzo is the seer for the same reasons. Therefore since both are telling the truth, the question is: Which one could be evil? I think the seer being evil/being converted is a horrible blow to the good guys and I just don't see that as being a game mechanic. The scout, on the other hand, almost reads like an anti-seer. Which role does that benefit the most? The villagers? How does the scout knowing who the best players are benefit other villagers if he can't talk about it? Because once he mentions which players are more likely to win games, they become targets for the wolves. So I don't see how it's a helpful role to the villagers, but it is a very helpful role for the wolves. Want to know who to take out with a night kill? How about the guy that has the best chance to win the game for us? While I'm tempted to give hoopsguy a pass just because of his brilliant attempt to deflect blame, in the end I'm here to win the game. VOTE HOOPSGUY

08-10-2007, 08:52 PM	#1087
Jonathan Ezarik College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bossier City, LA	Oh, and Gonzo, scan DT tonight. I'm willing to bet my life that he's a wolf. If he's not, you can lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure I am of his guilt.

08-10-2007, 08:52 PM	#1088
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	JE, so be it. But there is no reason to think that one role could be converted and another role would be immune. I'm not here to deflect blame, I'm also here to win the game. It looks like you guys get to try and do it without me.

08-10-2007, 09:10 PM	#1100
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	JE, the easier explanation is that I've told the truth. Seriously, I just brought that out as a single example. If I showed you every example of a quote where I was giving info on being the scout, you would have to think I'm not just clever but compulsive to the point of being unhinged.

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