Game of Thrones on HBO

[Lathum]

I would also suggest reading the books, especially if you have the summer off. They will give a lot of the backstory and may be fun for you to see how they changed things around. It would certainly add depth to the characters.

And if you think the scenes with John and Ygritte dragged on in the show...

[panerd]

What are we talking here 400-500 page books or Stephen King 1500 pagers? I am also on book 3 in the Dark Tower Series which I was hoping to complete this summer. Is Martin's writing style a real easy page turner or one where you have to re-read paragraphs on every page? I really enjoy reading but wonder if I will have the opposite experience as you guys were to you Ned Stark was someone you pictured that was played by Sean Bean and I will already have seen these characters formed on HBO and picture Bean when I am reading.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Lathum

And if you think the scenes with John and Ygritte dragged on in the show...

That doesn't sound promising.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by panerd

What are we talking here 400-500 page books or Stephen King 1500 pagers? I am also on book 3 in the Dark Tower Series which I was hoping to complete this summer. Is Martin's writing style a real easy page turner or one where you have to re-read paragraphs on every page? I really enjoy reading but wonder if I will have the opposite experience as you guys were to you Ned Stark was someone you pictured that was played by Sean Bean and I will already have seen these characters formed on HBO and picture Bean when I am reading.

They are long books. 700-900 pages.

I like his writing style well enough. Never had to re-read paragraphs, but have re-read many because I enjoyed them or to refresh my memory about how something was described.

Worth reading.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Lathum

And if you think the scenes with John and Ygritte dragged on in the show...

You know nothing, Lathum Snow!

[bronconick]

The first three books are some of the best in its genre. If you like the show, they're probably worth the purchase.

I'd argue what he's written since those three stack up about as well as the Star Wars prequels do to the original trilogy, however.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bronconick

The first three books are some of the best in its genre. If you like the show, they're probably worth the purchase.

I'd argue what he's written since those three stack up about as well as the Star Wars prequels do to the original trilogy, however.

Yikes! I wouldn't go that far. No, not at all, but the first three books are better, tighter and more coherent.

But, Star Wars prequel bad?

Meesa thinks youza crazy!!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

You know nothing, Lathum Snow!

hahaha

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

What are we talking here 400-500 page books or Stephen King 1500 pagers? I am also on book 3 in the Dark Tower Series which I was hoping to complete this summer. Is Martin's writing style a real easy page turner or one where you have to re-read paragraphs on every page? I really enjoy reading but wonder if I will have the opposite experience as you guys were to you Ned Stark was someone you pictured that was played by Sean Bean and I will already have seen these characters formed on HBO and picture Bean when I am reading.

I think you may need be able to breeze through them knowing a lot of the story already you may be able to skim over stuff.

Books 3-4-5 of the Dark Tower are are amazing as well though.

[GrantDawg]

And speaking of Joffery (and this might have been said before), but the actor is actually going to the University to become a minister. He really hates how evil Joffery is, but he is darn good at doing it.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by panerd

That doesn't sound promising.

you know nothing

(or, someone else can make the joke first)

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by sabotai

It would not be easy at all. You'll pretty much have to read books 1-2.

Too much has been changed or simplified in the TV show for you to really understand what's going on from book 3 on. Some of the story lines have been completely changed. Some characters in the show are still alive but dead in the books, some are dead in the show but still alive in the books. And it's a "cast of thousands", if you don't know their names, then you'll get lost quickly.

The alternative to that, if you really don't want to read the books, is to read the chapter summaries on the Tower Of The Hand wiki. Be careful though, it's easy to fall into the ocean of spoilers there. I'd suggest just reading the books. They are worth it.

To piggy back on this a little bit, there are also characters introduced in the 2nd book that aren't going to be introduced until the 3rd season of the show. So, you won't know who they are when you pick up the book.

[Draft Dodger]

apparently, they used a prop GW Bush head for some of the decapitation scenes.

beware, link has big season 1 / book 1 spoiler:

'Game of Thrones' put George W. Bush's head on a stake - The Clicker

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Yikes! I wouldn't go that far. No, not at all, but the first three books are better, tighter and more coherent.

But, Star Wars prequel bad?

Meesa thinks youza crazy!!

Three pages of turtle descriptions is about equal with Jar Jar stepping in poo.

At a bare minimum, he's faltered to Robert Jordan WoT books 7-10 quality with the explosion of PoV characters all sucking 1-3 chapters and no one moving ahead in plot.

First 3 books: One POV character with 3 or less chapters: Davos in ACoK

Book 4: 8 POV characters with 15 combined chapters
Book 5: 9 POV characters with 17 combined chapters

HBO's going to punch him for doubling their acting expenses.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think you may need be able to breeze through them knowing a lot of the story already you may be able to skim over stuff.

Books 3-4-5 of the Dark Tower are are amazing as well though.

Yeah my friend recommended the series but said books 6 and 7 are pretty weak. (of course he also said book 1 wasn't very good and I thought it was a fun fantasy/western) I'm not looking for King to explain to me the mysteries of the universe so maybe my hopes for the whole series won't be as high as his but he said books 2-5 were fantastic.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Three pages of turtle descriptions is about equal with Jar Jar stepping in poo.

At a bare minimum, he's faltered to Robert Jordan WoT books 7-10 quality with the explosion of PoV characters all sucking 1-3 chapters and no one moving ahead in plot.

First 3 books: One POV character with 3 or less chapters: Davos in ACoK

Book 4: 8 POV characters with 15 combined chapters
Book 5: 9 POV characters with 17 combined chapters

HBO's going to punch him for doubling their acting expenses.

I'll give you that they are "Jordan-esq." Heck, his unwillingness to end the series is very Jordan.

[Groundhog]

IMO books 1 and 3 are amazing, 2 is great. 4 was a real struggle for me and by far the weakest book as a whole, while 5 stepped it up a notch, but still didn't reach the heights of the first 3. If he's read 6 and 7 I'd be interested to know how.

[Draft Dodger]

so, you guys are saying I should stop after book 3 (GOT)?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

so, you guys are saying I should stop after book 3 (GOT)?

I doubt you'll be able to - you'll want to know what happens next. TBH, looking back the biggest problem with book 4 - outside of missing some of the big characters (not a character death spoiler - some characters were left out altogether, to appear in book 5 instead) - is that it's just different. Books 1 through 3 show a well planned and thought out story arc, which builds to an epic climax. Book 4 then sort of starts again, introducing new characters (some of whom aren't particularly interesting at first, if at all), more "one off" chapters, more outside-of-Westeros adventures, and for the first time the story starts to feel like he's making it up as he goes along, or just filling pages in places.

Book 5 is a big improvement and definitely had me hanging out for the next book.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

IMO books 1 and 3 are amazing, 2 is great. 4 was a real struggle for me and by far the weakest book as a whole, while 5 stepped it up a notch, but still didn't reach the heights of the first 3. If he's read 6 and 7 I'd be interested to know how.

He is talking about The Dark Tower, not GoT

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

so, you guys are saying I should stop after book 3 (GOT)?

No.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I doubt you'll be able to - you'll want to know what happens next. TBH, looking back the biggest problem with book 4 - outside of missing some of the big characters (not a character death spoiler - some characters were left out altogether, to appear in book 5 instead) - is that it's just different. Books 1 through 3 show a well planned and thought out story arc, which builds to an epic climax. Book 4 then sort of starts again, introducing new characters (some of whom aren't particularly interesting at first, if at all), more "one off" chapters, more outside-of-Westeros adventures, and for the first time the story starts to feel like he's making it up as he goes along, or just filling pages in places.

Book 5 is a big improvement and definitely had me hanging out for the next book.

What he said. The issue is that Books 1-3 were a neatly wrapped up story arc. Martin wanted to do a "5 Years Later" but realized that couldn't work as the flashbacks were getting way too detailed, so he wrote in what happened during those 5 years. That's what Book 4 and 2/3rds of Book 5 are... so no wonder they are a slog, the writer didn't want to write them to begin with.

But you won't be able to resist trying to figure out what's going one next as Groundhog said. Let's just say it kind of ends with a bang.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Three pages of turtle descriptions is about equal with Jar Jar stepping in poo.

At a bare minimum, he's faltered to Robert Jordan WoT books 7-10 quality with the explosion of PoV characters all sucking 1-3 chapters and no one moving ahead in plot.

First 3 books: One POV character with 3 or less chapters: Davos in ACoK

Book 4: 8 POV characters with 15 combined chapters
Book 5: 9 POV characters with 17 combined chapters

HBO's going to punch him for doubling their acting expenses.

Never read the Robert Jordon WoT books, so I don't carry those scars around with me.

I agree that things didn't move forward nearly as quickly as I'd like or expected in the last two books (the number of characters with POV chapters doesn't bother me in the slightest), but I have read Feast three times and will likely read "Dance" at least once more before the next book comes out, so I can't say that I hate them, because I don't.

It's an interesting comparison, for me at least, since the first three Star Wars movies were my favorite films growing up - and still hold a very special place for me - and this series is - by far - my favorite set of books ever. Nothing really comes close.

So, while I acknowledge a drop in quality and a lack of advancement (I have many theories on this you can find in the book thread) I completely reject the Star Wars prequel comparison.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah my friend recommended the series but said books 6 and 7 are pretty weak. (of course he also said book 1 wasn't very good and I thought it was a fun fantasy/western) I'm not looking for King to explain to me the mysteries of the universe so maybe my hopes for the whole series won't be as high as his but he said books 2-5 were fantastic.

For the "Dark Tower" series. I really loved book 6. I thought it was great. Book 7 was a big disappointment. I loved how the series finally ended, I am talking the last few pages, but almost everything up to that point in book 7 was pretty weak. Books 2-4 are fantastic.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

What he said. The issue is that Books 1-3 were a neatly wrapped up story arc. Martin wanted to do a "5 Years Later" but realized that couldn't work as the flashbacks were getting way too detailed, so he wrote in what happened during those 5 years. That's what Book 4 and 2/3rds of Book 5 are... so no wonder they are a slog, the writer didn't want to write them to begin with.

But you won't be able to resist trying to figure out what's going one next as Groundhog said. Let's just say it kind of ends with a bang.

The main issue is that they're kind of hanging out there right now as a literary "Bridge to Nowhere" because of that. Once the next 1 or 2 books are published, they'll probably look better (all but one of Jordan's weakest books have improved IMO now that there are books following up. CoT is unforgivable, however.) if still not comparable to the earlier three.

I hope now that he's through that five year slog it starts coming more easily to him. Book 3 being split into two seasons hopefully gives him time to get most or all of 6 done because I'm not sure how far out on that bridge HBO will be willing to go past the ending of aSOS if they don't know where it leads. They might end up going one year on , one year off with some other show otherwise to buy more time.

[Groundhog]

I can see them wrapping the TV series up following the third book. At least, I wouldn't be shocked if that was their original intention, but the success of the show (assuming it holds - which given the short seasons is likely) may lead to them going beyond book three.

[ISiddiqui]

It would have been a completely unsatisfying ending . And I don't think that was original intention - George R.R. Martin would have NEVER given them the rights if they were going to do that.

[Groundhog]

Well, obviously the ending would have to change from the book to tie things together, but it was also Martin's original intent for it to be a trilogy, and it definitely reads like that considering all the events in the third book. Wouldn't have been hard to change a few things and have it tie together for a conclussion.

Spoiler

....this should go in the book thread, but IMO the Jon Snow and Daenerys chapters are the two most obvious areas in the third book where he deviated from the original "trilogy" plot, which is what has me thinking that they are the two biggest players to the entire story.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by sabotai

It would not be easy at all. You'll pretty much have to read books 1-2.

Too much has been changed or simplified in the TV show for you to really understand what's going on from book 3 on. Some of the story lines have been completely changed. Some characters in the show are still alive but dead in the books, some are dead in the show but still alive in the books. And it's a "cast of thousands", if you don't know their names, then you'll get lost quickly.

I'd actually split the difference... I think outside of some Ned Stark backstory Season 1 of GoT and the first book were very similar. Season 2/Book 2 plots did diverge, and that book certainly expands the cast of characters.

[spleen1015]

He's told HBO how the story ends, so I think HBO will end up telling some version of his full story.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I have always been of the opinion that so long as HBO can get through "Storm of Swords" (book 3) - which by all accounts would be through season 4 of the show - that I'd be perfectly happy. Anything after that is just gravy.

Also, the show's writers have shown the ability to change things around effectively while still largely maintaining the integrity of the characters, themes and overall plot. So, if they do go beyond book 3, I can invision some pretty big changes.

[panerd]

HBO has also just let Carnivale, Deadwood, and to some extent Rome die without any sort of conclusion. When push comes to shove (ratings vs cost) why will they have any more devotion to Game of Thrones? Obviously this is a small percentage of the programs but also three of the ones that had lots of production costs.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I would guess, with DVD sales and merchandising, HBO stands to make more off of GoT than those programs. Enough to keep it going forever how much longer? Who knows. Will it still be the phenomenon that it is when the somewhat-maligned Books 4 and 5 are adapted?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I would guess, with DVD sales and merchandising, HBO stands to make more off of GoT than those programs. Enough to keep it going forever how much longer? Who knows. Will it still be the phenomenon that it is when the somewhat-maligned Books 4 and 5 are adapted?

I think it will, and I'm looking forward to that actually. They can cut out a lot of the "crap" that happens in those books that is more filler-ish and just focus on the important stuff.

[Barkeep49]

Ratings, not to mention the DVD sales and merchandising Ronnie mentioned, have been far far superior with GoT compared to Carnivale, Deadwood, or Rome. And of the three only Deadwood has had the sort of critical acclaim that GoT has had. Not to mention none of those three when an acting Emmy like GoT has, so there's extra prestige attached to the series and prestige matters for HBO.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I think it will, and I'm looking forward to that actually. They can cut out a lot of the "crap" that happens in those books that is more filler-ish and just focus on the important stuff.

This. 4 and 5 are going to be blended (same time frame) and some of the story-lines will be condensed and/or dropped. If Martin had done that, and just released the material left as one book, that book would have been as good as the first three.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I think it will, and I'm looking forward to that actually. They can cut out a lot of the "crap" that happens in those books that is more filler-ish and just focus on the important stuff.

I think the problem is having everyone decide on what is "filler-ish" .

[Honolulu_Blue]

Here is a decent little piece on how "Game of Thrones" might end and why:

The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors: Ending "Game of Thrones"

[spleen1015]

Suppose Martin lives until he is 99 and he gets book 6 out in 5 years and book 7 out 5 years after that.

Do you guys really think the show will take the story all of the way to the true ending before the books are finished or end/die before then?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Suppose Martin lives until he is 99 and he get book 6 out in 5 years and book 7 out 5 years after that.

Do you guys really think the show will take the story all of the way to the true ending, ala Book 7, or end/die before then?

I think it's more likely than not that the TV show never gets to the end of the series.

[chadritt]

Hell need to write quicker than that if he doesnt want his ending given away by the show. If its true that hes told them what hes going to do then hes got to know they could give it away first if he doesnt hurry.

[bronconick]

If the TV show passes his books and HBO does have and reveal the ending, I don't expect him to write one again. At the heart of the matter, I think he views himself at least as much a screenwriter as a novelist and the last two books have been "a bitch" and "3 bitches and a bastard" in his own words to write.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Here is a decent little piece on how "Game of Thrones" might end and why:

The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors: Ending "Game of Thrones"

And then there’s mortality. As disquieting as it is to consider, there’s a possibility that the 63-year-old won’t live long enough to wrap the series. Martin resembles Santa Claus in many ways, particularly in the midsection, and the fact that he’s a Jets fan can’t thrill his cardiologist. Essentially, Martin could be one Mark Sanchezception away from expiration … and Sanchez throws a lot of interceptions. YOU’RE KILLING AN AMERICAN TREASURE, MARK! THINK BEFORE YOU RELEASE THE BALL!! Point is, there are real questions about both his capacity to have material ready when HBO needs it and his ability to finish it at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ZeaS_QJ8w

[bronconick]

I got a chuckle about the comment talking about what if he becomes a Tebow convert? That would be different.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Hell need to write quicker than that if he doesnt want his ending given away by the show. If its true that hes told them what hes going to do then hes got to know they could give it away first if he doesnt hurry.

I do think though that the show producers will wait for him somewhat. HBO shows have before taken a year off and if Martin is just about done, they may simply wait (while having the drafts of Martin's book).

Also remember that books are getting all divided up now. Book 3 is 2 seasons. It is likely that Book 4 and 5 will be combined and divided into 3 seasons (some say 2 - but there is too much with the new cultures that it'll have to be 3 - as HBO has expanded some of the characters in the show, they'll likely want to expand more on the new places introduced in Book 4).

So... that would be, what 5 years starting 2013? Martin has a 2 year head start. And then I assume Book 6 would be a 2 season-er.

So say Martin does Book 6 five years after Book 5. That'd be 2016. That'd be the year the 2nd of the 3 season arc of Book 4 & 5. 2018 is when the first part of Book 6 would be filmed. So in 2020, the show would be reason to do part 1 of the final book, Book 7. Basically Martin would have to write the final book 4 years after his last book to meet the beginning of the final seasons.

Or HBO could delay it one year, giving Martin 5 years. Actually it may be a marketing coup to have Book 7 released a month before the 1st of the final 2 seasons (based on Book 7) start.

(if that made ANY sense)

[DaddyTorgo]

Martin's also hopefully past the Mereenese-knot issue and back on track with his original trajectory for the story, so while there'll doubtless be some fallout in terms of added time/pages due to the stuff introduced there, he's back to the core of the story that he wanted to tell and thus will hopefully git er done.

Plus, I think there's zero-chance that he would actually be content for the HBO series to race ahead of him and tell his story in a way that he didn't want it to be told.

That would cost him a ton of prestige, and $ frankly.

[ISiddiqui]

And he may decide to fuck with them and tell his story differently than the show .

[chadritt]

I just cant imagine HBO doing this show for a full decade, it just doesnt seem plausible. Actors age, especially children, and shows just get more and more expensive as they go. Remember, a show like House which was HUGE went for 8 years and that felt like forever.

[Ramzavail]

R.A. Dickey's walk up to the plate music is now the Game of Thrones theme song. Pretty cool I heard it last night when I was at the game.

[Honolulu_Blue]

There is a rumor that the Blackfish has been cast.

Yay for the Blackfish!