Werewolf XXV: A long time ago...game over, Sith win,full role listing at 2030

[path12]

Hey all, jedi stepping in. Not a lot of Star Wars knowledge, and I've got some catching up to do.......man, this is a strange game so far.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Desnudo, if you think they are both Jedi then why not vote KWhit with me? That would make the score 4/4/3 Qwik/Taz/KWhit? Or are you almost as certain that KWhit is a Jedi?

I felt about as positive as you can be about Qwik without having the seer come forward and name him a Jedi. Behaviour just didn't fit with being a Sith. I didn't see KWhit gaining enough votes to overcome the Qwik voters. So put my vote on Taz, who I felt was a jedi. I did not feel as strongly about him as I did about Qwik. Call it 90 Qwik/60-70 Taz at the time. I really have no idea on KWhit so say 50/50 for him. So yes, if I felt like KWhit could have gotten the votes, I would have voted for him.

My vote was, and is, a no-brainer to me based on what I knew at the time.

[SackAttack]

Welcome to the game, Path.

Shouldn't take you long to get up to speed. You can't possibly be any more confused than the rest of us are!

[saldana]

Whatever confidence you had gained from the victory over Dubb has waned considerably. The death of Schmidty followed by the bisection of Qwikshot weighs heavily upon your minds. At this point in the journey, you have more questions than answers, but tonight is not going to provide time to find those answers.

The now familiar wave of hatred surges into your consciousness earlier than any of the prior nights. And again you flood back to the galley...McKerney is silhouetted against the view port, a periwinkle blue lightsaber in his grip, opposed yet again by the hooded figure with the dual scarlet blades. The Sith seems to be growing stronger with each Jedi he faces, as tonight he stands his ground without moving an inch, easily matching the furious counterattacks of McKerney. Finally, McKerney begins to gain ground forcing the Sith back several steps. This is only a ruse however, a maneuver to give the Sith enough room to perform a stunning leap, taking him completely over the head of McKerney, and as he passes overtop, the Sith plunges one scarlet blade straight down into the top of McKerneys head, literally drilling a hole through the center of his body.

He lands on one knee, and looks at all of you. "You fools have no chance against the power of the Dark Side. The Sith are not restricted by your foolish Jedi code. It is only a matter of time before you are either our servants, or our victims." He thrusts out his hand, and all of you are lifted off the ground and thrown backwards. Despite your reflexes enabling you to land on your feet and immediately start towards the hooded assassin, he is already gone, and with him, another Jedi as the lifeless body of McKerney lies like an apple without a core on the ground where the Sith knelt.

it is now Day 5. voting deadline is 9:30 pm eastern on Tuesday.

[mckerney]

Uh, damn. Can't say I didn't see that coming though.

[Vince]

Man, path broke my streak of being the first post on consecutive pages

The 'villagers' are getting their asses handed to them in this game. I'm on the outside, have had extensive conversations with multiple people about it, and I still can't figure out who's who. I don't envy the villagers at this point

[Desnudo]

I think Taz is a Jedi. With much more confidence than before. I believe this is a set-up. AE's switch to tie it up indicates to me that the Sith didn't care who died, or if no one did (assuming normal tie rules), not that they were trying to save Taz. Since Taz could have easily saved himself by changing his vote, that argument doesn't wash. So yeah, martyring yourself does sometimes actually work.

[Desnudo]

What to do next is the interesting question.

[SackAttack]

Self-martyrdom in itself isn't necessarily a losing gambit. The problem is the whole "boy who cried wolf" bit. If it happens with enough frequency, it loses impact.

It does look as though Taz has earned himself some trust based on the results here, but at some point you stop believing it when somebody new throws himself on the stake to burn.

[Qwikshot]

It's been fun, /told/ you I wasn't a baddie.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not rushing to vote for Taz either, but only because of how late in the game we are. If it was earlier I would just grant him his wish and release him from a game that pretty clearly isn't fun for him.

It is taking a long time to get to Embleton.

[hoopsguy]

As far as today, KWhit missing a vote after getting mine yesterday. So he starts the day at the top of my radar.

Also, here are guys that up to this point have yet to really be on the radar in terms of discussion. I really don't know why they have not come up for serious discussion at any point:
- Grammaticus
- Tanglewood
- Cartman
- Kingfc22
- Desnudo
- Pennywiseb
- Stkelly
- SnDvls
- JeeberD
- SackAttack

Now that we know that Day 1 was villager vs villager, the late vote switches by Grammaticus and SackAttack don't look as suspicious to me. So that inches them above average trust for me.

Cartman - I'm just not convinced that a Sith would vote for the same Jedi four days in a row. Weird logic, but it is so transparent that I think it is on the level.

The limited participation from, and equal lack of attention paid to, SnDvls and Kingfc is a little concerning. Both of these guys have played in a lot of games and been contributors in the past. We really need to hear from them at some point.

I'll be out of the loop for the morning, but should be around most of the afternoon/evening to see if we can actually catch a Sith instead of creating another martyr.

[Qwikshot]

I was a kick ass martyr thank you very much...I was amazed I lasted as long as I did.

Meesa lika 'dis game, will shudda up, gooda luck Jeddies!

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think Taz is a Jedi. With much more confidence than before. I believe this is a set-up. AE's switch to tie it up indicates to me that the Sith didn't care who died, or if no one did (assuming normal tie rules), not that they were trying to save Taz. Since Taz could have easily saved himself by changing his vote, that argument doesn't wash. So yeah, martyring yourself does sometimes actually work.

It doesn't work for me. It shouldn't work for you. Here is why.

Last night before the deadline I'm completely and utterly happy that I'm voting for Taz. I started out immediately with the vote for him and never wavered. Never.

Never, that is, until I went to the galley. I meet some guy in a hood who lifted his hand with two minutes from the deadline. I don't want to insult anyone's intelligence. There's probably only one way I would decide to change my vote.

Two minutes later, tanglewood rushes in to change his vote. Too late. Perhaps he was waiting to see the results of something. Maybe he was hoping someone would change their mind in the last minute.

You see, it's really fortunate that Taz kept the vote on himself. I didn't know the tiebreaker either, but I had a feeling that Taz was going to live and that Qwik would die as a result of the tie. Man, that's really lucky. Taz didn't have to take the vote off himself, and now everyone will think..."Wow, Taz must be a good guy. He did something just like Ardent did. He was willing to die."

Only one problem with that. I don't think Taz and his buddies thought he'd win the tie. I'm sure they had no idea at that point. Maybe one or two of them had an idea, but I doubt it. So, they need one other person to vote...and here comes tanglewood to the rescue.

Let's look at a few choice posts by tanglewood near the end:

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Well, I think that Qwik is probably Jedi...

Therefore, I will stick with my vote the previous day of Ardent...

Vote Ardent

However, if there is a tie near the deadline, I will jump to one of the guys tied up to ensure a lynch. But only if I have to.

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Well damn, there goes my i'll break a tie promise. Teach me to leave the thread for 2 seconds...

The first one is edited to remove some fluff that was of absolutely no use to us. The second is the post immediately after he realizes he screwed up and now Taz may be gone.

Gentlemen, Jedi, if we don't make a concerted effort to vote Taz out we may not get it done. Taz has stated if he lived he would vote for himself. We need everyone to go with Taz. Together we can make a difference. Let's not have someone feel compelled to vote for someone else. Let's blow this vote out of the water. Let's get rid of Taz...and if he's bad, we can get rid of tanglewood.

VOTE TAZ

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

I was a kick ass martyr thank you very much...I was amazed I lasted as long as I did.

Meesa lika 'dis game, will shudda up, gooda luck Jeddies!

Sorry Qwik.

[TazFTW]

VOTE TAZFTW

That Sith bastard!

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not rushing to vote for Taz either, but only because of how late in the game we are. If it was earlier I would just grant him his wish and release him from a game that pretty clearly isn't fun for him.

It is taking a long time to get to Embleton.

I disagree. It has been loads of fun. Loads.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

The limited participation from, and equal lack of attention paid to, SnDvls and Kingfc is a little concerning. Both of these guys have played in a lot of games and been contributors in the past. We really need to hear from them at some point.

sorry it's been crazy here at work and home. I'll be more active today.

[SnDvls]

anyone have the post # where the first few days voting breakdown is I'd like to review it again and add yesterday's votes to it.

[stkelly52]

I am sick of the whole vote for yourself thing. If you want out of the game so be it
vote taz

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by stkelly52

I am sick of the whole vote for yourself thing. If you want out of the game so be it.

Same here.

Vote Taz.

[SnDvls]

looks like this might be a quick voting day if Taz gets his wish.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

As far as today, KWhit missing a vote after getting mine yesterday. So he starts the day at the top of my radar.

I can understand that. I certainly didn't miss the vote on purpose. I also wasn't able to defend myself yesterday, because I haven't had much time to read the thread. Unfortunately, work is kind of crazy now. I was in meetings most of yesterday afternoon and was only able to come into the thread and quickly scan through the new posts.

By the time I got out of work last night, got home and checked the thread I had missed the vote. I didn't even know I had received any votes until after the lynch had happened. So yes, my play style differs this time around, but that's only due to time constraints.

If I had been around, I definitely would have voted Taz last night, simply because the whole vote-for-yourself thing ticks me off. I voted against Ardent on the night he did that, and I'm voting for Taz today, so that's consistent.

I encourage you to look elsewhere for your vote today, preferably to Taz. I am a Jedi.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by stkelly52

I am sick of the whole vote for yourself thing. If you want out of the game so be it
vote taz

I'm sick of it as well, but Qwik bit us in the butt with his. I don't know if we can afford to lose another Jedi because just because he wants to be a martyr...

I think I'll hold onto my vote for awhile.

[path12]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Gentlemen, Jedi, if we don't make a concerted effort to vote Taz out we may not get it done. Taz has stated if he lived he would vote for himself. We need everyone to go with Taz. Together we can make a difference. Let's not have someone feel compelled to vote for someone else. Let's blow this vote out of the water. [b]Let's get rid of Taz...and if he's bad, we can get rid of tanglewood.

One question. If Tanglewood is the one with the most suspicious vote switches, why Taz first? Why not Tanglewood?

Although I do see the compulsion to go with the self-voter.......

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Also, here are guys that up to this point have yet to really be on the radar in terms of discussion. I really don't know why they have not come up for serious discussion at any point:
- Grammaticus
- Tanglewood
- Cartman
- Kingfc22
- Desnudo
- Pennywiseb
- Stkelly
- SnDvls
- JeeberD
- SackAttack

At this point, I'd love to see us start to look at some of these names. I think we've gotten caught up in a bunch of red herrings to date, such as the whole barkeep/hoops debate, the self-voting, etc. I think the Sith are just sitting back and letting us chase our tails.

We need to get a Sith today. Nobody is clear in my book.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by path12

One question. If Tanglewood is the one with the most suspicious vote switches, why Taz first? Why not Tanglewood?

Although I do see the compulsion to go with the self-voter.......

Since I felt I needed to vote Qwikshot after knowing all day I wanted to vote Taz...obviously the late vote switch was in effect. I think it's obvious they didn't want to lose Taz.

Tanglewood enters the scene due to his timing. His actions seem to handshake with mine, without the benefit of feeling he had to vote for qwikshot. Coincidence? I doubt it.

[SnDvls]

I don't like the whole Taz thing. I feel in my gut that he's good, just like I felt in the lost game AlanT was bad. I can't jump on him just because he wants out. I'm leaning towards another right now.

[Poli]

Sigh.

[hoopsguy]

And the board is back up ... been trying to get back on for the last thirty minutes or so.

Here are the votes I show so far:
Taz - Ardent (1064), Taz (1066), StKelly (1070), KWhit (1071)

I'm really starting to lose hope in the seer still being in the game based on the fact that we have not heard anything up until now. Obviously I would like to be wrong.

The only way that an active (alive) seer makes sense to me is if:
1.) There are really only the two Sith - still requires some bad luck to miss on 4 scans

or

2.) Ardent/Barkeep (now Path12)/Me have all been scanned (at the minimum 2 of 3) and are clean

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

It doesn't work for me. It shouldn't work for you. Here is why.

Last night before the deadline I'm completely and utterly happy that I'm voting for Taz. I started out immediately with the vote for him and never wavered. Never.

Never, that is, until I went to the galley. I meet some guy in a hood who lifted his hand with two minutes from the deadline. I don't want to insult anyone's intelligence. There's probably only one way I would decide to change my vote.

Two minutes later, tanglewood rushes in to change his vote. Too late. Perhaps he was waiting to see the results of something. Maybe he was hoping someone would change their mind in the last minute.

You see, it's really fortunate that Taz kept the vote on himself. I didn't know the tiebreaker either, but I had a feeling that Taz was going to live and that Qwik would die as a result of the tie. Man, that's really lucky. Taz didn't have to take the vote off himself, and now everyone will think..."Wow, Taz must be a good guy. He did something just like Ardent did. He was willing to die."

Only one problem with that. I don't think Taz and his buddies thought he'd win the tie. I'm sure they had no idea at that point. Maybe one or two of them had an idea, but I doubt it. So, they need one other person to vote...and here comes tanglewood to the rescue.

Let's look at a few choice posts by tanglewood near the end:

The first one is edited to remove some fluff that was of absolutely no use to us. The second is the post immediately after he realizes he screwed up and now Taz may be gone.

Gentlemen, Jedi, if we don't make a concerted effort to vote Taz out we may not get it done. Taz has stated if he lived he would vote for himself. We need everyone to go with Taz. Together we can make a difference. Let's not have someone feel compelled to vote for someone else. Let's blow this vote out of the water. Let's get rid of Taz...and if he's bad, we can get rid of tanglewood.

VOTE TAZ

If Taz was a bad guy, and I'm nearly convinced he is not, then there was a swing vote, his. There was never any need for Tangle to become involved. Also, very interesting to see who hopped on your Taz bandwagon this morning.

As an additional reinforcement at this point I find myself asking the question, what are AE and Hoops still doing around? It's no longer a sow the seeds of confusion game to me. We are clearly over a barrel, so why leave both of you around? Either you both failed to bring your "A" games and as a result, we are going nowhere fast, or one or both of you is part of the problem.

That combined with a lengthy flawed explaination about someone whom I believe to be a Jedi leads me to:

Vote Ardent Enthusiast

[Desnudo]

Also, I would add that if there was a game mechanic to force AE to switch his vote, I would expect to see it reflected in the results storyline, not as some sort of puppet act right before the deadline.

[cartman]

I'm not sure which way I'll send my vote tonight. I was obviously way off in targeting Qwik with my vote each of the past tallies. My leaning right now is to agree with Desnudo, just because of the peculiar way AE has been posting. But that was what led me to suspect Qwik, and we can't really afford to be wrong in our lynch pick anymore.

[kingfc22]

I don't buy Taz being a Sith and I think AE is trying to pull one over on us today.

VOTE AE

[pennywisesb]

There is definately something fishy with AE. I've never heard of there being a game mechanic forcing someone to switch their vote. Saldana specifically said this was a 'simple game' which makes me think AE has probably made his story up. I still think that at least one of the three, Barkeep, Hoops or AE is probably sith, and since no one seems to be headed down a hoops or barkeep vote, I'm going to:

Vote Ardent Enthusiast

If AE turns out to be good, then Taz and Tangle will be the direction I head tomorrow.

[pennywisesb]

*Barkeep=Path....., my bad.

[SackAttack]

I still don't believe AE is a Sith, but the vote switch to Taz has me wondering. I mean, he was insistent that he wanted to vote for Qwik, who we now know (or at least assume) to have been a Jedi.

So is he just trying to clear himself on the vote switch, or is there something deeper going on?

[Grammaticus]

I agree, with the strange nature of Tangle’s vote. It just does not make sense. He says he is going to vote X and be prepared to make a move if there is a tie. Then he is just away from his PC when the vote deadline hits. Not exactly looking at the tie like he said. Plus, based on his general actions and history, he is not one to make a brash move like jumping out and throwing his vote to break a tie at the wire, as that generally draws heat when a Jedi is lynched. Just a move that is out of character for his play style.

Not sure what to think about Taz. I figured Qwik was good and said it many times. I feel the same way about Ardent. But we had to go an hit Qwik anyway. That was a poor choice and now you have whatever you may glean from his death and confirmation of Jedi status. Leads me to lend greater trust to Sack and Ardent.

I’m most concerned about Hoops, something is just not right there. Below is a generalization of my good/bad and in between list.


Good
Grammaticus I know he is good
SackAttack – good, support of Qwik, general feel
Ardent Enthusiast – good, posts content supports good also supported Qwik
StKelly52 – good, general feel
Desnudo - good, Qwik support, posted sound logic
Cartman – probably good – gut feel for a newbie

Neutral
SnDvls – Not sure, feels more good than bad
TazFTW – odd – tossed out as option by hoops, in middle of AE vote change
Kwhit – tossed out as option by Hoops
Pennywisesb – no read
Kingfc22 – no read, missed vote
JeeberD – not sure seems more bad than good

Bad
Hoopsguy – bad, not building circle as usual prolific posts w/little real content
Tanglewood – bad, odd late vote, pushed for Lathum
Barkeep49/Path – bad, left game, Path replaced

Both BK and Hoops posted Barkeeps name in place of AE and BK did not even realize it while posting. Just not the level of detail one would expect. I don’t think Sith would leave them on the table this long, period.

[Desnudo]

Interesting analysis Gram. I agree with most of the main points. I feel pretty strongly about AE, but the one thing that I believe needs to happen is that either AE or Hoops is tested today.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Also, I would add that if there was a game mechanic to force AE to switch his vote, I would expect to see it reflected in the results storyline, not as some sort of puppet act right before the deadline.

Not necessarily. The game master will purposely leave stuff out to get discussion going. Even though he indicts me (and after I've taken a closer look at my role), I believe AE's mind control play to be on the up and up.

Although, my main problem with the play is the timing. I mean the person who had to power had to either PM Saldana or his target his intentions. With the lateness of the vote switch wouldn't the Sith have had to know that his target would have been online at the time?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Not necessarily. The game master will purposely leave stuff out to get discussion going. Even though he indicts me (and after I've taken a closer look at my role), I believe AE's mind control play to be on the up and up.

Although, my main problem with the play is the timing. I mean the person who had to power had to either PM Saldana or his target his intentions. With the lateness of the vote switch wouldn't the Sith have had to know that his target would have been online at the time?

That's a good point. Although it's possible that the mechanic occurred earlier in the day and AE was told to wait until the last possible minute.

[Grammaticus]

I’m going with my theory on hoops

VOTE HOOPS

[Desnudo]

So Taz, what are your thoughts on things then? I also hope that you don't plan on playing the martyr again today.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Not necessarily. The game master will purposely leave stuff out to get discussion going. Even though he indicts me (and after I've taken a closer look at my role), I believe AE's mind control play to be on the up and up.

Although, my main problem with the play is the timing. I mean the person who had to power had to either PM Saldana or his target his intentions. With the lateness of the vote switch wouldn't the Sith have had to know that his target would have been online at the time?

Depends on how saldana has it set up. If he has it set up such that the vote switch announcement doesn't *have* to be public, then no, that wouldn't be necessary.

We've only seen this happen once (and hopefully it's a one-off power, like a duking), so it's difficult to say whether the target has to publicly announce his switch or not.

Of course, it also depends on when the Sith sends in his order. If he makes the decision at 9 am, couldn't saldana send the PM earlier in the day to the target, with directions on when to take the action? I'm not convinced that both Sith and target have to be online at the same time, just because the logistics are all screwy.

Assuming, of course, that mind control is in play here.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

That's a good point. Although it's possible that the mechanic occurred earlier in the day and AE was told to wait until the last possible minute.

But then you had to be sure Ardent would have been online near the deadline. If he was not online does the play still work? Would Saldana have posted, "Ardent couldn't be here so he PM'd me that he wanted his vote changed to Qwik. Results to follow."?

[KWhit]

I still don't trust AE one bit. I don't think his vote-for-himself strategy made sense the other night (for a Jedi). The only reasons I can come up with that make that play strategically sound is if he's a Sith, or if he has some role that I am unfamiliar with - a role in which something happens to him or the group upon his death, something like that.

[hoopsguy]

I would be willing to get into any kind of "me vs Player X" Jedi/Sith showdown as long as the end conclusion is not that I'm next to die if Player X is not Sith. That is why I would prefer not to be forced into that position, because it is potentially a no-win situation for me.

Conversely, if you want to link me to a player as Jedi/Jedi or Sith/Sith then I would ask it is Ardent as I have the highest level of confidence in him at this point of any of the remaining players.

Gram, if you really want to know my circle of trust at this point, here it is - expanded from Post #834 yesterday:

Absolute Trust:
Me - I know my role. Is there any way that I haven't been scanned yet if we still have a seer?
Dead Jedi - duh

High Trust:
none

Medium Trust:
Ardent - winner of showdown with Dubb (evil Jedi), likely to have been scanned if we still have seer

Low Trust:
Gram - no reason to draw attention on Day 1 with vote switch from Jedi to Jedi
Sack - see Gram
Desnudo - consistently good poster in this thread
Barkeep/Path12 - would have to believe he would have been scanned if seer is still with us

Marginal Trust:
Cartman - would a Sith vote for the same guy four times in a row?
Kingfc22 - non-vote in showdown between AE/Dubb
Penny - see King
Stkelly - see King

No trust:
Anyone not explicitly mentioned here

Distrust:
KWhit - voted for him yesterday based on voting record, no vote yesterday didn't create confidence

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

So Taz, what are your thoughts on things then? I also hope that you don't plan on playing the martyr again today.

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Assuming, of course, that mind control is in play here.

This is what I believe, that there is a Jedi/Sith Mind Trick available in this game. I mentioned in my previous post about rereading my role, so it is time for my role reveal. I am only slightly different than the normal Jedi. The only difference between me and a normal Jedi is that I have a stronger will. I first took that as a 'I cannot be converted' role but rereading it makes me think that I won't fall for a Jedi Mind Trick (and the can't be converted part also true).

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

This is what I believe, that there is a Jedi/Sith Mind Trick available in this game. I mentioned in my previous post about rereading my role, so it is time for my role reveal. I am only slightly different than the normal Jedi. The only difference between me and a normal Jedi is that I have a stronger will. I first took that as a 'I cannot be converted' role but rereading it makes me think that I won't fall for a Jedi Mind Trick (and the can't be converted part also true).

Doesn't that make it just as possible, then, that there's a Jedi role with a mind trick that could have been used last night? Possibly either to spare Qwik, or to create a tie between Qwik and you so that neither would get lynched?

[SackAttack]

Dola,

to clarify, I mean a good guy Jedi with that possible role. I'm not ruling out the Sith having it, only wondering if it's an item in the arsenal on both sides.