Werewolf XXXIV: Tombstone (GAME OVER - Night 13)

[Barkeep49]

Glen,

Good points about GE. But I just don't think it makes sense to make him sheriff, as he's proven to be a bit of a wild card, frankly. I'd like a little more predictability from my sheriff.

[Lathum]

well I guess I will throw my name in the hat since other people have mentioned me for a possible candidate.

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, I'm putting my candidate out there then.

Vote ntndeacon for Sheriff

[hoopsguy]

I'm less secure in GE than the majority of the people here seem to be, but I wouldn't put myself in the "jail him" camp today.

It seems like I'm way out of touch with Chubby compared to a few people here, but no one is willing to outright state that they trust him, just that they think they know his role. It would be very helpful in mitigating my distrust to tell me whether you believe you know his role based on your actions or his comments.

[Racer]

Elect ntndeacon

He seems to be very trusted at this point and Saldana's actions thus far have been questionable.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Glen,

Good points about GE. But I just don't think it makes sense to make him sheriff, as he's proven to be a bit of a wild card, frankly. I'd like a little more predictability from my sheriff.

So, somebody like Blade?

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm less secure in GE than the majority of the people here seem to be, but I wouldn't put myself in the "jail him" camp today.

It seems like I'm way out of touch with Chubby compared to a few people here, but no one is willing to outright state that they trust him, just that they think they know his role. It would be very helpful in mitigating my distrust to tell me whether you believe you know his role based on your actions or his comments.

I think I know his role based on his comments on my actions.

[Alan T]

About 5 hours, 6 minutes and 42 seconds until lynch. Current vote totals:

Election votes: (11 votes needed for new sheriff)

(3) Ntndeacon - St.cronin (1030), Anxiety (1053), Racer (1055)
(2) Barkeep - Lonestargirl (1010), Spleen (1045)


Lynch votes: (11 votes needed for lynch)

(0) Swaggs -

[hoopsguy]

In terms of trust levels, I think there is considerably too much trust being placed on a few people. Has anyone made a strong connection between roles and being a villager? Just to use an example, does being the "retired sheriff" mean that you are not a Cowboy?

I don't have a good compass on how to weigh any reveals at this point because we don't have anyone dead besides Thomkal. We don't have a vote yet that we can look at and evaluate. Cronin, you think we are ahead of the game because we are collecting information. I say that we have no real means to evaluate the information we possess.

I most certainly do not want to see us elect Lathum as the Sheriff - he was out on Night 1 with a gun when he was arrested. What was going to happen at Anxiety's home if he had not used his Actor trait? Anxiety, do you know if NTN had a gun? You guys talked about an "item" that he possessed that I suspect was not a gun. If someone (Cronin, Anxiety, or other) can verify that NTN didn't have a gun then he would probably be my choice for the Sheriff.

I think it was Cronin who also suggested that having a gun doesn't mean jack in terms of guilt or innocence. Well, I'm guessing there are villagers out there who do not have a gun. Does anyone really believe that each and every one of the Cowboys is not packing heat? That point matters to me, although I'm willing to listen to honest discussion about the relative value of this piece of info.

I'm not trying to cause some kind of a panic here - I just really do not like the train of thought that seems to be emerging with people that I do NOT consider trusted and the idea that we can continue on our merry way without lynching and feel good about the information we collect. We have one dead, one converted, and are gradually bleeding role information that the Cowboys will use to drive their night kills.

Rant over.

[ntndeacon]

since Iam getting support to become sherriff...
Elect ntndeacon

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

In terms of trust levels, I think there is considerably too much trust being placed on a few people. Has anyone made a strong connection between roles and being a villager? Just to use an example, does being the "retired sheriff" mean that you are not a Cowboy?

I don't have a good compass on how to weigh any reveals at this point because we don't have anyone dead besides Thomkal. We don't have a vote yet that we can look at and evaluate. Cronin, you think we are ahead of the game because we are collecting information. I say that we have no real means to evaluate the information we possess.

I most certainly do not want to see us elect Lathum as the Sheriff - he was out on Night 1 with a gun when he was arrested. What was going to happen at Anxiety's home if he had not used his Actor trait? Anxiety, do you know if NTN had a gun? You guys talked about an "item" that he possessed that I suspect was not a gun. If someone (Cronin, Anxiety, or other) can verify that NTN didn't have a gun then he would probably be my choice for the Sheriff.

I think it was Cronin who also suggested that having a gun doesn't mean jack in terms of guilt or innocence. Well, I'm guessing there are villagers out there who do not have a gun. Does anyone really believe that each and every one of the Cowboys is not packing heat? That point matters to me, although I'm willing to listen to honest discussion about the relative value of this piece of info.

I'm not trying to cause some kind of a panic here - I just really do not like the train of thought that seems to be emerging with people that I do NOT consider trusted and the idea that we can continue on our merry way without lynching and feel good about the information we collect. We have one dead, one converted, and are gradually bleeding role information that the Cowboys will use to drive their night kills.

Rant over.

No gun at all.

[Abe Sargent]

BTW - is anybody else getting wierd timestamps here in this thread? Mine are an hour behind, but the regular forum is on normal Abe Standard Time.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

BTW - is anybody else getting wierd timestamps here in this thread? Mine are an hour behind, but the regular forum is on normal Abe Standard Time.

Its a special role just for this game. I call it the late villager. You are always 1 hour late to everything.

In all seriousness timestamps look the same between forums for me.

[hoopsguy]

I still feel pretty good about Saldana as Sheriff. But based on the feedback of others it seems NTN is our most cleared person at this point.

ELECT NTNDEACON (SHERIFF)

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

In terms of trust levels, I think there is considerably too much trust being placed on a few people. Has anyone made a strong connection between roles and being a villager? Just to use an example, does being the "retired sheriff" mean that you are not a Cowboy?

I don't have a good compass on how to weigh any reveals at this point because we don't have anyone dead besides Thomkal. We don't have a vote yet that we can look at and evaluate. Cronin, you think we are ahead of the game because we are collecting information. I say that we have no real means to evaluate the information we possess.

I most certainly do not want to see us elect Lathum as the Sheriff - he was out on Night 1 with a gun when he was arrested. What was going to happen at Anxiety's home if he had not used his Actor trait? Anxiety, do you know if NTN had a gun? You guys talked about an "item" that he possessed that I suspect was not a gun. If someone (Cronin, Anxiety, or other) can verify that NTN didn't have a gun then he would probably be my choice for the Sheriff.

I think it was Cronin who also suggested that having a gun doesn't mean jack in terms of guilt or innocence. Well, I'm guessing there are villagers out there who do not have a gun. Does anyone really believe that each and every one of the Cowboys is not packing heat? That point matters to me, although I'm willing to listen to honest discussion about the relative value of this piece of info.

I'm not trying to cause some kind of a panic here - I just really do not like the train of thought that seems to be emerging with people that I do NOT consider trusted and the idea that we can continue on our merry way without lynching and feel good about the information we collect. We have one dead, one converted, and are gradually bleeding role information that the Cowboys will use to drive their night kills.

Rant over.

Hoops, I am on the same page as you. I have nowhere near the trust in some people that others seem to, and I can't figure out why anyone except ntn has any kind of trust level.

As for all the cowboys packing heat, it's likely but there's always the possibility that one of them may just use a knife instead, so I don't think we'd be able to match up no gun=villager.

I won't be voting for a new sheriff or a lynch at this point. We are rapidly falling behind IMO, but I don't see what Saldana did except what many people asked him to. Personally I would have left Lathum in jail and put in two, but that's a quibble more than damning evidence.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

In terms of trust levels, I think there is considerably too much trust being placed on a few people. Has anyone made a strong connection between roles and being a villager? Just to use an example, does being the "retired sheriff" mean that you are not a Cowboy?

I don't have a good compass on how to weigh any reveals at this point because we don't have anyone dead besides Thomkal. We don't have a vote yet that we can look at and evaluate. Cronin, you think we are ahead of the game because we are collecting information. I say that we have no real means to evaluate the information we possess.

I most certainly do not want to see us elect Lathum as the Sheriff - he was out on Night 1 with a gun when he was arrested. What was going to happen at Anxiety's home if he had not used his Actor trait? Anxiety, do you know if NTN had a gun? You guys talked about an "item" that he possessed that I suspect was not a gun. If someone (Cronin, Anxiety, or other) can verify that NTN didn't have a gun then he would probably be my choice for the Sheriff.

I think it was Cronin who also suggested that having a gun doesn't mean jack in terms of guilt or innocence. Well, I'm guessing there are villagers out there who do not have a gun. Does anyone really believe that each and every one of the Cowboys is not packing heat? That point matters to me, although I'm willing to listen to honest discussion about the relative value of this piece of info.

I'm not trying to cause some kind of a panic here - I just really do not like the train of thought that seems to be emerging with people that I do NOT consider trusted and the idea that we can continue on our merry way without lynching and feel good about the information we collect. We have one dead, one converted, and are gradually bleeding role information that the Cowboys will use to drive their night kills.

Rant over.

I feel the same way. I don't thik anyone has done anything to be proven one way or the other. We just have a bunch of role reveals. I'm inexperienced, so no one will listen to me especially after the fun I started yesterday. So, I am just going to just in this Barkeep/Lathum/ntndeacon/Anxiety almost CoT and see what happens.

Without a role and no death happening in the last day, I'm worthless anyway.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I feel the same way. I don't thik anyone has done anything to be proven one way or the other. We just have a bunch of role reveals. I'm inexperienced, so no one will listen to me especially after the fun I started yesterday. So, I am just going to just in this Barkeep/Lathum/ntndeacon/Anxiety almost CoT and see what happens.

Without a role and no death happening in the last day, I'm worthless anyway.

I meant to say I'm just going to trust in that CoT.

[GoldenEagle]

I think we need to get behind one person for the sheriff so that we can get saldana out of office. My reputation as a lawman from Kansas proceeds me, but I can understand people not wanting to be sheriff. I also do not want to be sheriff since my powers should be used to keep the current sheriff in check.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I think we need to get behind one person for the sheriff so that we can get saldana out of office. My reputation as a lawman from Kansas proceeds me, but I can understand people not wanting to be sheriff. I also do not want to be sheriff since my powers should be used to keep the current sheriff in check.

With you as sheriff, we get 3 night actions involving jail every 3 days. That could be useful.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

In terms of trust levels, I think there is considerably too much trust being placed on a few people. Has anyone made a strong connection between roles and being a villager? Just to use an example, does being the "retired sheriff" mean that you are not a Cowboy?

I don't have a good compass on how to weigh any reveals at this point because we don't have anyone dead besides Thomkal. We don't have a vote yet that we can look at and evaluate. Cronin, you think we are ahead of the game because we are collecting information. I say that we have no real means to evaluate the information we possess.

I most certainly do not want to see us elect Lathum as the Sheriff - he was out on Night 1 with a gun when he was arrested. What was going to happen at Anxiety's home if he had not used his Actor trait? Anxiety, do you know if NTN had a gun? You guys talked about an "item" that he possessed that I suspect was not a gun. If someone (Cronin, Anxiety, or other) can verify that NTN didn't have a gun then he would probably be my choice for the Sheriff.

I think it was Cronin who also suggested that having a gun doesn't mean jack in terms of guilt or innocence. Well, I'm guessing there are villagers out there who do not have a gun. Does anyone really believe that each and every one of the Cowboys is not packing heat? That point matters to me, although I'm willing to listen to honest discussion about the relative value of this piece of info.

I'm not trying to cause some kind of a panic here - I just really do not like the train of thought that seems to be emerging with people that I do NOT consider trusted and the idea that we can continue on our merry way without lynching and feel good about the information we collect. We have one dead, one converted, and are gradually bleeding role information that the Cowboys will use to drive their night kills.

Rant over.

I do not know that he had a gun, but given what happened, it's not likely he would have showed it to me if he did have one.

I get what you're saying about Lathum, I do - but keep in mind that saldana checked his gun, and determined it had not been fired. So, for him to have been on a cowboy mission, they would have to have had two kills that night. Certainly, that is possible, but it seems unlikely.

Your point about GE is well taken - I don't consider him cleared in the same way as some of the others, but what he has said he is able to do, so far he has done.

Why does it seem so unlikely to you that a cowboy wouldn't have a gun? We know (or think we know) that thomkal was killed with a gun on the first night. But we also have a mortician in the game, presumably to determine how a player is killed. So it's possible that some of the cowboys will have to kill with rope or knives or something else. We also know from the rules that some of the townspeople will be armed. So, taken by itself, the fact that somebody has a gun doesn't mean anything to me.

I assure you that there is no way that ntn is a cowboy.

I do agree with you that eventually we will have to lynch somebody - but we definitely don't have to do that every day. If we lynch the wrong person every day, we make the cowboy's game a lot easier.

[Lathum]

hoops, I agree with what you are saying but at least we are getting some information out there. Thanks to the swaggs-GE-Saldana situations we really have nothing else to go with at this point.

I think whoever the new sheriff is they MUST jail 2 people tonight so we have some room to maneuver tomorrow otherwise it is gonna be more of the same.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Lathum

hoops, I agree with what you are saying but at least we are getting some information out there. Thanks to the swaggs-GE-Saldana situations we really have nothing else to go with at this point.

I think whoever the new sheriff is they MUST jail 2 people tonight so we have some room to maneuver tomorrow otherwise it is gonna be more of the same.

Yes, I agree with this.

My choices for jail would be Hoopsguy and Lonestargirl.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Yes, I agree with this.

My choices for jail would be Hoopsguy and Lonestargirl.

cronin, just curious as to why those 2?

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

With you as sheriff, we get 3 night actions involving jail every 3 days. That could be useful.

I guess it could be. But like, I said I really do not have any desire to return to my law enforcement duites. I came to Tombstone seeking fortune.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Lathum

cronin, just curious as to why those 2?

They don't particularly stand out more than anybody else, but they both sit outside my COT. I'd be happy with ntn jailing any two players other than

Anxiety, GE, Chubby, Lathum

I somewhat trust Barkeep and spleen because of their play, but it's not anything substantial.

[Lathum]

I would go with LSG and Chubby for jail. LSG seemed open to being sheriff when the vote started turning her way. Once it took a turn she kind of faded into the background.

[path12]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I guess it could be. But like, I said I really do not have any desire to return to my law enforcement duites. I came to Tombstone seeking fortune.

I think that's a good reason not to elect you -- that sounds like you might have a vice for money, and I think that should disqualify any candidate for sheriff.

[spleen1015]

Question for those who heard shots...did you just hear shots or did you hear a specfic number of shots?

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, in terms of your CoT I'm fine with being outside of it. I would prefer not to be in jail but I'll defer to our Sheriff (whoever that may be) on this matter.

With 20 people still in the game right now I'm fine not being in people's circle. If I'm still around by the time we hit ten people then I would encourage you to put me in jail and hang me from a tree pronto. At that point I would think you have appropriate reason for paranoia in my direction. Right now I think it is a little premature.

[st.cronin]

Actually, I was pretty sleepy that first night. Looking at my pm again, I'm not even sure it was gunshots. It might have been a horse farting.

[spleen1015]

Something that just occured to me that might come into play later.

Each gun can hold 6 bullets. Since it is the wild west I assume everyone is using 6-shooters.

Do these guns get reloaded after they are used or does each one only get 6 shots? I would ask Alan, but he's not going to answer that question.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, in terms of your CoT I'm fine with being outside of it. I would prefer not to be in jail but I'll defer to our Sheriff (whoever that may be) on this matter.

With 20 people still in the game right now I'm fine not being in people's circle. If I'm still around by the time we hit ten people then I would encourage you to put me in jail and hang me from a tree pronto. At that point I would think you have appropriate reason for paranoia in my direction. Right now I think it is a little premature.

I also feel like you've been trying to steer people in the wrong direction a couple of times, like with advocating retaining saldana as sherriff earlier today. I hope you're not a cowboy, and I don't particularly think you are one - but you tingled my spidey sense once or twice.

The same with LSG.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Something that just occured to me that might come into play later.

Each gun can hold 6 bullets. Since it is the wild west I assume everyone is using 6-shooters.

Do these guns get reloaded after they are used or does each one only get 6 shots? I would ask Alan, but he's not going to answer that question.

are you asking if each player only gets 6 bullets?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Lathum

are you asking if each player only gets 6 bullets?

Each player or each gun. I believe the guns can move around.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Each player or each gun. I believe the guns can move around.

i think that is unlikely but possible since saldana's pm also made sure to point out my gun was cold

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Something that just occured to me that might come into play later.

Each gun can hold 6 bullets. Since it is the wild west I assume everyone is using 6-shooters.

Do these guns get reloaded after they are used or does each one only get 6 shots? I would ask Alan, but he's not going to answer that question.

Actually there were quite a few 5 shot revolvers in the old west. But those were more likely prior to 1880.

I would guess the sharpshooter and maybe someone else could have a rifle. Who knows, maybe there is a shotgun in the saloon or something like that. That would be cool.

Anyway, it is a good question for AlanT

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Each player or each gun. I believe the guns can move around.

I agree with this as there is a pickpocket role.

[GoldenEagle]

Could the people who heard the shots be in a particualr part of town? I am assuming that is the part of town that Thomkal was killed in. Have we had a debate as to why Thomkal was killed? I think one of the cowboys has a strong vice for gambling.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

NTN and Cronin - does this coincide with your perception of events as well?

Chubby, did you hear anything on Night 1?

I didn't hear or see anything in regards to the murder.

[Grammaticus]

Okay, I

ELECT SWAGGS for sheriff

I think he is more cleared than anyone else at this point. He likely does not have a useful night action, so it makes more sense for him to be sheriff than anyone else.

NTN needs to be able to visit people each night and if he does that as sheriff, he is open to attack (I think AlanT said using your night action allows you to be attacked as sheriff). That means he would risk getting killed each night and we would have to elect a new sheriff, possibly losing an opportunity to jail people for the night the sheriff is killed.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Here is Chubby's post yesterday suggesting we should not lynch anyone in jail. Now he may be correct that neither GE nor Lathum are Cowboys, but why would he think this if both of them had guns? This isn't adding up for me ...

I would think that because I know for fact that both of thm turned over their guns when they were jailed.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Could the people who heard the shots be in a particualr part of town? I am assuming that is the part of town that Thomkal was killed in. Have we had a debate as to why Thomkal was killed? I think one of the cowboys has a strong vice for gambling.

Most likely they believed him to be the seer, with another option being the gamblinng to vice concern.

[bulletsponge]

ok just caught up.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, this was Chubby's post. I took the below information to indicate what he learned through his role. The bolded part was him expanding on Night 2 information, in a way that suggests he is helping us out.

But if you interpret the first piece of information to suggest that he learned about GE and Lathum on Night 1 (and remember he is tired today so he had a Night 1 action when there was a kill) then why would he vote "No Lynch" for two people who were arrested with guns when there was someone shot that night? I was definitely looking to lynch yesterday even without the knowledge of guns.

He can help me clear up any misconceptions here with his reply.

GE offered no resistance when he was arrested and turned over his gun.

Lathum shook his strongly to whatever Saldana was talking to him about before arresting him on night one, then turned over his gun peacefully.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Okay, I

ELECT SWAGGS for sheriff

I think he is more cleared than anyone else at this point. He likely does not have a useful night action, so it makes more sense for him to be sheriff than anyone else.

NTN needs to be able to visit people each night and if he does that as sheriff, he is open to attack (I think AlanT said using your night action allows you to be attacked as sheriff). That means he would risk getting killed each night and we would have to elect a new sheriff, possibly losing an opportunity to jail people for the night the sheriff is killed.

To elect a new sherriff, we need a majority, not a plurality. Ntndeacon's role is not likely one that the cowboys will target, if they figure it out. I think your worries are overstated.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Okay, I

ELECT SWAGGS for sheriff

I think he is more cleared than anyone else at this point. He likely does not have a useful night action, so it makes more sense for him to be sheriff than anyone else.

NTN needs to be able to visit people each night and if he does that as sheriff, he is open to attack (I think AlanT said using your night action allows you to be attacked as sheriff). That means he would risk getting killed each night and we would have to elect a new sheriff, possibly losing an opportunity to jail people for the night the sheriff is killed.

I can't find it, but I believe Alan said the Sheriff travels with deputies and couldn't be killed at night.

[st.cronin]

Also, I don't think Swaggs is quite as cleared as ntndeacon.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

My guess is Chubby did not find out nor does he know my role now. I do have an inkling of what his role is, but that is it. If his role is what I think it is I would want to keep Chubby out of jail. The only questions I have about Chubby's info is the following...

Was both Golden Eagle and Lathum arrested in the same part of town?
Was Lathum's having a gun well known?

Probably these are back in the posts I just cant remember the answers right now.

GE and Lathum do not live in the same part of town.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Okay, I

ELECT SWAGGS for sheriff

I think he is more cleared than anyone else at this point. He likely does not have a useful night action, so it makes more sense for him to be sheriff than anyone else.

NTN needs to be able to visit people each night and if he does that as sheriff, he is open to attack (I think AlanT said using your night action allows you to be attacked as sheriff). That means he would risk getting killed each night and we would have to elect a new sheriff, possibly losing an opportunity to jail people for the night the sheriff is killed.

gramm, this is a bad strategy IMO. If we elect swaggs he will have to use one of his actions to free himself and another to jail someone so we will be in the same situation tomorrow with only one lynch candidate.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

To elect a new sherriff, we need a majority, not a plurality. Ntndeacon's role is not likely one that the cowboys will target, if they figure it out. I think your worries are overstated.

Either way, Swaggs has nothing better to do at night. Everyone saw him change the lynch vote to a "no lynch".

Plus NTNdeacon was mean and unfriendly when he came by Anxiety's house and saw CR there instead - that is what Anxiety said.