WW XCI: Office Space, the TPS Edition - GAME OVER - Insiders Win

[Autumn]

What's a desperation ploy? Defending myself?

You have a pretty good angle and reason to suspect me. There's nothing I can do about that except answer whatever questions people have. You have had lots of questions, Lathum, so I'm giving you lots of answers.

I can tell you that if I was a wolf and really wanted, for some reason, to use the rope to gain favor I would have had the wolves attack me. That would have been a pretty good way to look like a good guy. Whereas tying up the one good guy and not being attacked--hasn't worked in my favor so much.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

someone who was ,a villager.

My point , that you didn't really address, was that if I am a wolf there is no incentive to me switching votes last night. Either was a villager goes down.

There is an incentive, as a wolf, for you to create a tie. You know that either:
A. There will be no lynch, pretty good for the wolves
or
B. Autumn is likely to get duked by CR. Positing that Autumn is good in this scenario you have thus killed a villager why burning the duke's powers.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

someone who was ,a villager.

My point , that you didn't really address, was that if I am a wolf there is no incentive to me switching votes last night. Either was a villager goes down.

Also cartman's being a villager is unfortunate. But people need to contribute to the game. I mean at this point pretty much everyone but Poli and Martin have really contributed something. It creates a record. It's good for the game. Killing off the most active people I think is bad for the game in the long-run.

[Barkeep49]

Nearly done with the Lathum post analysis, but it won't get finished until around 3 Central.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

What's a desperation ploy? Defending myself?

.

no, IMO you and BK have been linked together today, for better or worse.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Nearly done with the Lathum post analysis, but it won't get finished until around 3 Central.

can't wait to see how you spin this one.

[Abe Sargent]

Mommy and Daddy are fighting

[Autumn]

I think there's a fair chance that Lathum is a wolf. I think there's also a fair chance that the wolves are sitting back and letting this play out, not having to get involved and incriminate themselves. If Lathum is a villager, then they don't have to do anything, knowing that it will probably be either him or me at this point. If he's a wolf, they don't need to stick their noses out, they can just pop in and agree with the prevailing opinion and vote for me.

I would like to see everyone sticking their nose out here. Abe, Lerriuqs, Danny and I all voted for Clap day one. I've given my reasoning. Let's hear what some of the quieter folks are saying.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

There is an incentive, as a wolf, for you to create a tie. You know that either:
A. There will be no lynch, pretty good for the wolves
or
B. Autumn is likely to get duked by CR. Positing that Autumn is good in this scenario you have thus killed a villager why burning the duke's powers.

CR indicated there would be a lynch, and I trusted him.

As for who CR selects, that was totally out of my hands. I trusted Cartman to be a villager and was correct in that assumption.

You are completly glossing over the fact that my actions were in an attempt to save a known villager, while you were the driving force behind a villager getting lynched, then hiding behind the excuse that it doesn't matter because he wasn't active.

I have no idea how you can rationalize him being a villager doesn't matter. Whether he was active or not is irrelevant to the ratio we need to win. He was a positive piece of that equasion, so there is nothing good about his death.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Mommy and Daddy are fighting

as long as I'm Daddy

[Lathum]

I agree it would be good to hear from some of the less vocal people.

And I am beyond excited for BK's post analysis. Too bad I am not going to have the time to do one of him.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Lathum

CR indicated there would be a lynch, and I trusted him.

As for who CR selects, that was totally out of my hands. I trusted Cartman to be a villager and was correct in that assumption.

You are completly glossing over the fact that my actions were in an attempt to save a known villager, while you were the driving force behind a villager getting lynched, then hiding behind the excuse that it doesn't matter because he wasn't active.

I have no idea how you can rationalize him being a villager doesn't matter. Whether he was active or not is irrelevant to the ratio we need to win. He was a positive piece of that equasion, so there is nothing good about his death.

I still don't see the logic in this. Chief voted for Cartman. The lynch vote was going for Cartman. obviously his Duke orders would lynch Cartman.

You claim you were sure Cartman was good, but instead of convincing people to vote for me, you make it a tie, a tie which was sure to end up lynching Cartman if it went through.

If you were sure of Cartman, why would you trust Chief's judgment, which was that Cartman was bad?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I still don't see the logic in this. Chief voted for Cartman. The lynch vote was going for Cartman. obviously his Duke orders would lynch Cartman.

You claim you were sure Cartman was good, but instead of convincing people to vote for me, you make it a tie, a tie which was sure to end up lynching Cartman if it went through.

If you were sure of Cartman, why would you trust Chief's judgment, which was that Cartman was bad?

I never said I was sure Carman was good, The only way I could be sure of that is if I was a wolf.

Stop trying to subtly paint that light on me,

Anyway off to class, look forward to catching up when I return

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I trusted Cartman to be a villager and was correct in that assumption.

You are completly glossing over the fact that my actions were in an attempt to save a known villager

Obviously you didn't know anything the rest of us did, that's not my point. Let me use your language. You "trusted Cartman to be a villager" and yet instead of trying to convince others to change their votes, you made a tie at the last second that you knew would probably result in a lynch call made by Chief Rum. That doesn't make any sense, but you seem uninterested in actually addressing that point.

[dubb93]

My head hurts. I trust Autumn, I do not trust Barkeep and Lathum. Barkeep and Lathum are fighting over which one of them is a wolf, Lathum is lumping Autumn into that group. I hate to agree with Barkeep after voting for him for days and no new information coming out against him. I guess I will wait for his analysis to come out before I make a decision.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

IMO someone revealing as the seer is a pretty good reason to change.

Why? I was voting for the seer.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

am I the only one who had no idea the items and their descriptions were being added to the first post?

Getting caught up and I had no idea either.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

My theory is, and lord knows I have been wrong many times before, is BK and Autumn are linked and this is a desperation ploy to not go 1-2 today and tomorrow.

Buzz. I don't do desperation plays. And you know as well as anyone I'm willing to turn on my own team to protect myself. If I was a wolf and Autumn had gotten caught, I'd be more likely to lead the charge than I would be to go after you.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think there's a fair chance that Lathum is a wolf. I think there's also a fair chance that the wolves are sitting back and letting this play out, not having to get involved and incriminate themselves. If Lathum is a villager, then they don't have to do anything, knowing that it will probably be either him or me at this point. If he's a wolf, they don't need to stick their noses out, they can just pop in and agree with the prevailing opinion and vote for me.

I would like to see everyone sticking their nose out here. Abe, Lerriuqs, Danny and I all voted for Clap day one. I've given my reasoning. Let's hear what some of the quieter folks are saying.

I voted for Clap when he had not revealed. I was on until deadline and had no reason to change my vote with Chief stating he would duke if Clap was lynched and Lathum breaking the tie anyway. I didn't see any point in artificially looking good by making a pointless switch after things had been decided.

[Danny]

I'm caught up. It might be far fetched but Autumn and Lathum almost sounds like two wolves arguing. I actually see Barkeep as playing very reasonable today with his logic although I'm still not sure I buy was Autumn is saying.

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think there's a fair chance that Lathum is a wolf. I think there's also a fair chance that the wolves are sitting back and letting this play out, not having to get involved and incriminate themselves. If Lathum is a villager, then they don't have to do anything, knowing that it will probably be either him or me at this point. If he's a wolf, they don't need to stick their noses out, they can just pop in and agree with the prevailing opinion and vote for me.

I would like to see everyone sticking their nose out here. Abe, Lerriuqs, Danny and I all voted for Clap day one. I've given my reasoning. Let's hear what some of the quieter folks are saying.

I gave my reasoning then. Clap did not reveal as the seer until after my vote and I'd already left. I'm not around at the deadline any day and so I couldn't change it. I voted to clap to avoid the no lynch scenario for Day 1.

[Barkeep49]

Here is my summary of Lathum's posts

-Day 1-
92 – Votes for Pass “lets kick this off”
94 – In response to why pass “why not”
96 – Doesn’t mind drawing attention to himself for vote, especially in light of strong play last game
114 – Votes clap after clap votes for him
118 – Explains that he votes for clap because clap voted for him
121 – Asks why lerriuqs voted for him
124 – References last game as defense against vote from lerriuqs
127 – Suggests that because lerriuqs read the last game lerriuqs might be voting for him to kill a valuable villager
130 – Says wolves won’t need to kill him at night if they can get the villagers to do it during the day
133 – Eplains lerriuqs still hasn’t really answered question from 130
143 – Denies bullying lerriuqs. Says he was just trying to understand POV
144 – Corrects a mistake by cartman
148 – Explains that if he gets early votes he tries to pressure the person voting for him
151 – Apologizes to lerriuqs if lerriuqs felt he was being bullied
156 – In response to CR feeling posts towards lerriuqs weren’t normal Lathum behavior “is there such a thing as "normal Lathum behavior?"
177 – Doesn’t feel he was over the top, was trying to promote d1 disucssion and defend himself
182 – Posts vote count; is suspicious of Martin and cartman introducing new candidates later in the day. Also doesn’t like Schmidty’s vote for Poli
183 – Correction to vote count
193 – Explains to cartman why he feels it is bad to introduce new candidate: muddies the water, prevents analysis over the accuracy of cartman’s vote
194 – Understands Schmidty’s traditional Poli vote and still doesn’t like it
196 – Asks cartman if he was going to introduce new candidate why not do a revenge vote?
287 – Is suspicious of CR
289 – Explains suspicion of CR: why make hoops, who is a good villager, a viable lynch candidate over cartman
290 – Clarifies that he wasn’t trying to “slight” cartman
300 – Denies that he is the seer and looks askance at CR trying to suggest that he is
306 – Tells clap if he is revealing as seer he should do it soon
307 – Explains that if clap reveals, will change vote to CR
315 – Says that he and CR are often suspicious of each other; still feels his play that morning with lerriuqs was appropriate
317 – Votes for CR
322 – Again defends actions w/ lerriuqs as being his normal way of playing
323 – Explains that if people are moving votes away from clap CR could become candidate
329 – Quotes CR saying “but heaven forbid anyone else not like you coming after them.” and posts ?
330 – Doesn’t understand post by CR saying that one person has been most suspicious to CR
332 – Wonders why clap needs to remove picture of Jennifer Aniston
340 – Doesn’t feel he got defensive; feels he stated his case
343 – Says CR can go ahead and duke him
348 – Again explains why he feels he did not bully lerriuqs
356 – Votes hoops
358 – Moved vote to break tie
367 – Claims to be vanilla and that “It would be a bonehead move of epic proportion for CR to duke to me and waste his role”
368 – Agrees hoops is an easy target, but feels tie is worse

-Night 1-
380 – Feels CR was right in not using his duke role (based on question from Pass)
381 – Says BG should protect clap
388 – Explains that fake revealing as Duke is bad move since real duke can duke that person
393 – Looks at people who voted for hoops [This is done in a fairly unbiased manner as it includes himself]
397 – Meaningless post
402 – Says seer should scan Abe to see if Abe was being saved with voting
405 – Explains he switched vote to break tie and ties are bad
408 – Suggests that PB and Jackal, as early hoops voters, deserve a closer look
415 – Denies that he broke tie to prevent being duked. Says CR did not give an indication that CR was going to duke him
435 – Meaningless post
441 – Explains that he felt there was time to swing vote to CR after clap revealed

-Day 2-
456 – In response to Schmidty’s death “jeez, talk about a lucky shot for the wolves”
462 – Meaningless post
509 – Votes Pass
513 – Asks why, if he and Pass are both wolves, he’d bother to unvote Pass when Pass was not in trouble D1
515 – “I've talked to no fewer then 5 people either playing of following along over AIM and none of them thought it was bullying...”
516 – Repeats question from 513
521 – Feels asking about bullying was OK
524 – Still feels asking about bullying was OK, but this time with extra passion
525 – Feels that Pass’s vote against him is “cheap, [and] classless”
566 – Asked EF to replace him
572 – Doesn’t feel he crossed line in IM’ing about bullying out of respect for those that do is why he asked to be replaced
615 – Doesn’t feel the pressure he applies is mean spirited or he can be called a bully
619 – Says he’s sticking around. Again defends actions with the whole situation
621 – Repeats that early hoops voters are likely wolves

-Night 2-
639 – Congratulates clap for nailing Pass

-Day 3-
652 – In response to CR, wonders why clap is dead if BG protected him
657 – Votes abe, feels most will be gained by finding out if he is good or not
670 – Feels cartman has been under the radar and that lerriuqs also deseres scrutiny; unvotes Abe
677 – Votes lerriuqs: feels there is connection with Pass, left vote on clap after clap revealed; voted for Lathum D1
711 – Wants to know who CR distrusts, though doesn’t state that this distrusted person deserves to die
715 – Asks why when it was a hoops/Abe run-off USFL and I left our votes on Abe
716 – Says connection between him and pass is meaningless since they were on opposite sides; asks if he is wolf why would he break D1 tie.
721 – Clarifies that he meant clap-hoops run-off
727 – Denies that changing the vote was an attempt to look good by saving the seer
730 – Likes discussion of how to use night powers in games where there are distinct night/day cycles
740 – Reiterates that a D1 tie is bad for the villagers and good for the wolves
839 – Feels abe’s vote against cartman is suspicious since the same logic he uses to defend lerriuqs defends cartman
843 – Votes BK; D1 vote was suspicious and feels I would have picked up on Schmidty’s hint
847 – In a broken dola, explains that he doesn’t trust lerriuqs and wonders why I keep bringing up post substance in attacking cartman when cartman is inexperienced
855 – Wonders if cartman will vote for me
860 – Gahs the creation of a tie
868 – Feels I deserve votes because of my driving the vote against cartman
870 – PB’s vote puts us in odd spot
879 – Unvotes BK, votes autumn
883 – Explains he created tie since he knows CR will duke and doesn’t think cartman is a wolf
891 – Quotes CR explaining that there will not be a no-lynch
894 – Explains that while he thought he was creating a tie with vote change he really didn’t
895 – Feels Abe is trying to set him up by questioning what would happen if CR didn’t submit an order

-Night 3-
900 – Misunderstands a PB post
901 – Sees no reason not to vote for Abe
906 – Felt Autumn’s reveal was a wolf trying to buy time
908 – Feels PB deserves scrutiny for D1 vote
909 – Lack of counter to autumn deserves consideration
912 – See scenario where Abe and autumn are wolves, explaining why Abe voted late for cartman
920 – Felt cartman’s actions were good and wanted to save CR’s duking ability
923 – Doesn’t feel duke is very powerful, but is someone who can be trusted
932 – Had intuition to guide him that Cartman was good

-Day 4-
944 – Suggests CR tied himself to Autumn
950 – Suggests autumn is wolf trying to gain trust with rope and CR
964 – Feels Autumn is making a play with his claim and that other wolves would know to stay away from CR though making Autumn look good
968 – Even if rope’s powers were correct, still could have been used by a wolf
971 – Tries to clarify that lerriuqs is agreeing with him
974 – Wonders why the wolves would go for Jackal because autumn appears to be the BG. Why not go for CR or autumn?
975 – Perhaps Autumn is Drew
977 – Wonders why jackal was killed
979 – Feels wolves would take a shot at the BG and Autumn had made clear he was the BG
983 – Thinks Autumn’s defense is too neat
993 – Feels Autumn turning on lathum reeks of desperation.
994 – Feels everyone thought Autumn was hinting at being BG so why wouldn’t the wolves also think this?
995 – Says anyone who thinks he’s a wolf can ask him questions
1004 – Feels the wolves wouldn’t want to lose a chance to attack Autumn, because of intimation that he is the BG
1005 – Asks if he’s the only one who had no idea about items
1010 – Feels that people who know there are items are still going to feel Autumn is either BG or lying about the ropes ability
1032 – Wonders why I am alive. If they were scared of rope why not attack me?
1034 – In a broken dola, if he’s off on Autumn look at me instead. Feels PB is agreeable plus he cast an early vote on hoops
1035 – People have been suspicious of him all game, so wolves wouldn’t want to kill him
1037 – Feels he’d be easier for wolves to lynch than me. Also points out I drove vote against cartman, a villager. Why would he switch at the last minute last night?
1039 – Defends voting record. Feels leaving vote on clap or Abe after reveal is more suspicious
1043 – Feels I am burying my vote by staying on Abe
1047 – Asks me to state why a wolf would switch his vote
1048 – States there were only two options at end of D1, clap and hoops and I choose neither
1049 – Feels someone revealing as seer is good reason to change
1050 – Feels Autumn and I are both wolves and are making a desperation play
1055 – Repeats that Autumn and I are linked now
1056 – Can’t wait to see my post analysis
1059 – States his actions were to save a known villager where I was trying to lynch a known villager
1060 – Meaningless post
1061 – Agrees it would be good to hear from less vocal people
1063 – Never said he was sure cartman was good

[Barkeep49]

Top 4 things which strike me as "off" about Lathum after reading all his posts, in no particular order:
1. Was critical early on, and continued to be critical later on, of people who voted for Hoops, yet after CR revealed, he also voted for hoops, rather than trying to get someone else lynched. If he's a wolf, it seems like he was trying to get rid of a valued villager, while still getting credit for defending a valuable villager.
2. He has twice done last minute shaninigans with voting. And for opposite reasons. Once to create a tie, once to break it.
3. His interaction with Pass feels wrong. He voted quickly for Pass, for no reason, and then, for revenge changes his vote to clap. It struck me as fishy at the time, but doubly so when we found out Pass is bad. Further, by arguing with Pass over a non-game matter he creates even further distance. This conflict between wolves is a staple of Lathum's wolf play.
4. The amount of players who has been very suspicious of, we're not talking unease here we're talking full-on distrust, is almost as long as the player list.


Mitigating factors to the above 4 reasons:
1. I believe he really was ready to quit the game, suggesting that the argument with Pass might not have been staged.
2. The amount of players who has been very suspicious of, we're not talking unease here we're talking full-on distrust, is almost as long as the player list. Why engender ill will among so many people if you're a wolf?

[Barkeep49]

I plan on doing a post analysis of Abe tonight, since despite my quasi-defense of him yesterday I do think he's worth of some scrutiny. I don't know if these analysis help anyone else but it's been useful for me to try and see the arc of a players actions.

[Danny]

Vote Lathum

I realize this will probably earn me some scorn from lathum, but his play has been off to me the entire game and I think there's a decent chance he and both Autumn are wolves. Plus frankly, a runaway for Autumn tells us very little at the end of the day and a closer vote helps us more.

[Danny]

I am not dead set on my vote at this point, but hopefully the closer vote will get some others into the light with their voting and not create a meaningless runaway vote.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Danny

Vote Lathum

I realize this will probably earn me some scorn from lathum, but his play has been off to me the entire game and I think there's a decent chance he and both Autumn are wolves. Plus frankly, a runaway for Autumn tells us very little at the end of the day and a closer vote helps us more.

What have you found off about Lathum? I'm curious.

[Autumn]

855 is anohter one of the things I found odd. Lathum acted surprised and worried about Purdue making a tie and then as soon as that tie was broken he made another.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

What have you found off about Lathum? I'm curious.

His general play/voting, but more specifically, the episode with pass and then after the whole episode he kind of played the fool. I remember a couple posts, CR pointed out one himself where Lathum basically asked a question or appeared to not know what's going on when a player with his skill clearly would.

And it just seems like he is trying to get suspicion on as many people as possible.

And while I do believe his considering quitting the game, this happened a few games ago with another player who turned out to be a wolf. At the time I said there was no way he was a wolf because of him wanting to quit, but I'm not going to assume that a second time.

[Danny]

Although I must say that was my general feel throughout the game, I didn't go back and analyze each post like BK :P

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Danny

His general play/voting, but more specifically, the episode with pass and then after the whole episode he kind of played the fool. I remember a couple posts, CR pointed out one himself where Lathum basically asked a question or appeared to not know what's going on when a player with his skill clearly would.

This is what has struck me. I haven't played with Lathum enough to know, and I wasn't sure how to say it without possibly offending, but it seemed like he has been kind of playing stupid. My impression is that Lathum is a very smart player, and that he's acting like he doesn't understand things that he probably does.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I plan on doing a post analysis of Abe tonight, since despite my quasi-defense of him yesterday I do think he's worth of some scrutiny. I don't know if these analysis help anyone else but it's been useful for me to try and see the arc of a players actions.

Yay! Someone loves me enough to look at my old posts!

[Autumn]

It will be like a walk down memory lane.

[Danny]

You guys are makin7g me sjealousj. An7d I sjusjt sjp
illed c8offee on7 the keyb5oard an7d n7ow look a my typ
in7g, c8rap

[Danny]

Looks like i might n7eed
.a n7ew keyb5o.ard
n7ow

[Autumn]

Soon it will be back to the office work (dinner and putting kids to bed). I will be checking in but so far today I haven't found a better suspect so I'll put a vote in.

VOTE LATHUM

[dubb93]

VOTE Lathum

I'm willing to give Barkeep a flyer today. I think Lathum's play has been wolfish, however if Lathum turns out to be good I'll be back on my Barkeep push tomarrow.

[dubb93]

By my count:

Updated votes (as of 1043):

Lathum 4 - Barkeep49 (1036), Danny (1075), Autumn (1086), Dubb93 (1087)
Autumn 3 - Abe Sargent (989), Lathum (993), PurdueBrad (996)



Yet to vote: USFLTecmo, lerriuqs, Poli, Chief Rum, MartinD

[dubb93]

That is actually updated as 1089.

[Danny]

my keyboard is fried im using the onscreen keyboard now

[dubb93]

I think at some point we have to look at Poli and figure out why in the hell he isn't adding any content to the discussion. He is not playing his normal game at all.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Lathum

am I the only one who had no idea the items and their descriptions were being added to the first post?

I had no clue!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dubb93

VOTE Lathum

I'm willing to give Barkeep a flyer today. I think Lathum's play has been wolfish, however if Lathum turns out to be good I'll be back on my Barkeep push tomarrow.

I don't understand this logic at all.

You are suspicous of BK all game. BK comes out defending and siding with Autumn, and to this point is the only person who says he DIDN"T think Autumn was claiming BG. Yet you side with him on voting me?

Makes no sense.

You guys want to lynch me I am fine with that, I am a plain villager and at least we wont kill the BG. But IMO the link between BK and Autumn is to strong.

[Lathum]

dola- pretty much everyone has also said they had no clue about where to find the items except BK and Autumn, yet another connection.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Danny

You guys are makin7g me sjealousj. An7d I sjusjt sjp
illed c8offee on7 the keyb5oard an7d n7ow look a my typ
in7g, c8rap

Originally Posted by Danny

Looks like i might n7eed
.a n7ew keyb5o.ard
n7ow

Looks like you misplaced a decimal point!

[lerriuqs]

VOTE LATHUM

I've had concerns since day 1 on him.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- pretty much everyone has also said they had no clue about where to find the items except BK and Autumn, yet another connection.

You're really stretching now. So because we happened to be the only ones who check out the first page of the game for updates, we're obviously both wolves? Or even somehow connected? How does two people thinking of or noticing the same thing mean there's some sort of "connection"?

[Poli]

I was actually hoping to see some conversation about barkeep. Instead, I have autumn vs. Lathum, with barkeep mixed in.

BK's summary of Lathum's posts and the rest of his analysis appears helpful to us, but I think I've taken things like that from BK as helpful only to get screwed in the end.

The problem for me is this: I felt certain Autumn was a villager yesterday until I started reading about this rope thing. Now I'm not so sure. I seriously don't think Lathum's a bad guy because, and as BK pointed out, the drama that ensued after Pass. That's a little meta gaming maybe, I don't know.

I guess I still like BK for one of the wolves...so I guess I'll vote autumn as they seem to be kind of in the same corner.

VOTE AUTUMN

[Lathum]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Top 4 things which strike me as "off" about Lathum after reading all his posts, in no particular order:
1. Was critical early on, and continued to be critical later on, of people who voted for Hoops, yet after CR revealed, he also voted for hoops, rather than trying to get someone else lynched. If he's a wolf, it seems like he was trying to get rid of a valued villager, while still getting credit for defending a valuable villager.

I had exactly 29 minutes to do that, not much time. I switched to Hoops because a tie would have been a bad thing and someone had to go out on a limb. I have repeatedly stated as a wolf I leave it as a tie in that spot and force the villages to redo day 1.

2. He has twice done last minute shaninigans with voting. And for opposite reasons. Once to create a tie, once to break it.

and wolves always make plays like that to draw attention to themselves.

3. His interaction with Pass feels wrong. He voted quickly for Pass, for no reason, and then, for revenge changes his vote to clap. It struck me as fishy at the time, but doubly so when we found out Pass is bad. Further, by arguing with Pass over a non-game matter he creates even further distance. This conflict between wolves is a staple of Lathum's wolf play.

not out of game conflict

4. The amount of players who has been very suspicious of, we're not talking unease here we're talking full-on distrust, is almost as long as the player list.

like I said, sometimes I think out loud

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't understand this logic at all.

You are suspicous of BK all game. BK comes out defending and siding with Autumn, and to this point is the only person who says he DIDN"T think Autumn was claiming BG. Yet you side with him on voting me?

Makes no sense.

You guys want to lynch me I am fine with that, I am a plain villager and at least we wont kill the BG. But IMO the link between BK and Autumn is to strong.

Lathum, you are pushing for Autumn not Barkeep. I am not willing to risk the death of Autumn today. If it turns out Autumn is good and we kill him we just killed, not the bodyguard, but a bodyguard. His rope works as a bodyguard would as far as we have been told. I am not willing to take that chance. I think we learn the most from either your death today or Barkeep, we would also learn a little from an Autumn death but I will not stand for that. Thus the vote for you and not Barkeep. A vote for you is a vote for Autumn to live, and like I said earlier I trust Autumn right now I do not trust you or Barkeep.