2014 MLB Thread - Page 22

sterlingice · 06-19-2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Stuff like this makes baseball a crazy game when you think about it. Imagine explaining to someone who has never seen the game that when a batter gets up to the plate, they can hit the ball so it lands anywhere and get one base. Or they could have it land somewhere else and get two or three bases. And the best thing that can happen is that they go all the way around the diamond after one swing.

Then tell them that, on average, the best (or second best) offensive player in the game only gets 60% of the way to the first base for every time they get up to the plate. They'd probably think it's the most pointless game in the world.

I dunno: how does "a bunch of grown men smash into each other trying to carry an animal skin past the fray" sound?

SI

SackAttack · 06-19-2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Then tell them that, on average, the best (or second best) offensive player in the game only gets 60% of the way to the first base for every time they get up to the plate. They'd probably think it's the most pointless game in the world.

OTOH, putting it that way - "the best offensive player in the game only gets 60% of the way to first base every time they get up to the plate" - ignores that even the best player in the game is unlikely to hit much better than .330 or .340, except in extreme situations. Trout's .311 BA with a .600 SLG means that every time he hits safely, on average he's already in scoring position.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-19-2014, 10:31 PM

The hits just keep on coming in Atlanta. Broken bone in the elbow of Gavin Floyd, although Freddi says it is not related to his recent TJ surgery.

Gavin Floyd of Atlanta Braves leaves with apparent elbow injury - ESPN

miked · 06-20-2014, 06:23 AM

And BJ Upton goes 0-5 with 2 Ks from the 2 spot. He's now batting .208 (OBP of .270) with 87 Ks in 65 games. Is Wren forcing Freddi to play him so he doesn't look worse than he already does for signing him? I can't imagine in what world you not only continue to play him, but bat him 2nd. Not that Schafer is better...

Easy Mac · 06-20-2014, 07:21 AM

They have no one better, but there's no logical reason to bat him second.

Breeze · 06-20-2014, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

They have no one better, but there's no logical reason to bat him second.

After Uggla and B J Upton...seriously, how does Frank Wren still have a job?

miked · 06-20-2014, 07:47 AM

The moves I keep hearing are to call up Bethancourt or Laroud from AAA to catch and move Gattis to the OF, putting Heyward in CF. But it seems like Wren should be able to deal for an OF (we don't need a CF per se).

rowech · 06-20-2014, 07:50 AM

Batting struggling players second is pretty common. Leadoff guy gets on and if he's a threat to steal, second batter will see fastballs. In addition, pitchers won't want to face number three and four hitters with guy(s) on so he will be willing to pitch more directly to the number two guy. Goes back a long way actually.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-20-2014, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breeze

After Uggla and B J Upton...seriously, how does Frank Wren still have a job?

Because mediocrity is perfectly fine with Braves ownership.

I just can't seem to figure out why mediocrity AND wasting money while achieving it have proven so acceptable.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-20-2014, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowech

Batting struggling players second is pretty common. Leadoff guy gets on and if he's a threat to steal, second batter will see fastballs. In addition, pitchers won't want to face number three and four hitters with guy(s) on so he will be willing to pitch more directly to the number two guy. Goes back a long way actually.

We're now, basically, at half a season.
At some point, a player isn't "struggling" ... he just sucks.

Here's the scary thing about Bad Joke though, this year is actually better than last year was.

2013: BA .184 / OBP .268 / SLG .289 / OPS .557 / 38.7% K/AB
2014: BA .208 / OBP .279 / SLG .340 / OPS .619 / 33.6% K/AB

Still, I don't think batting him second could be described as having gotten him past "struggling"

Matthean · 06-20-2014, 10:40 AM

larrymcg421 · 06-20-2014, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breeze

After Uggla and B J Upton...seriously, how does Frank Wren still have a job?

How can he be blamed for those moves? It's not like Wren was signing guys with poor track records. Their massive drop-offs were not expected.

Uggla OPS

112
108
126
111
131
Wren signs him.
107
98
84
34

Upton OPS

136
108
82
106
114
108
Wren signs him.
54
71

BishopMVP · 06-20-2014, 11:37 AM

Interesting article on pitching - The Essence of Velocity: The pitching theory that could revolutionize baseball, if only the sport would embrace it - SBNation.com

Sheds some light on the Trevor Bauer situation in Arizona.

rowech · 06-20-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

We're now, basically, at half a season.
At some point, a player isn't "struggling" ... he just sucks.

Here's the scary thing about Bad Joke though, this year is actually better than last year was.

2013: BA .184 / OBP .268 / SLG .289 / OPS .557 / 38.7% K/AB
2014: BA .208 / OBP .279 / SLG .340 / OPS .619 / 33.6% K/AB

Still, I don't think batting him second could be described as having gotten him past "struggling"

Oh, I agree he sucks. The only reason he's playing is for fear of upsetting Justin. I was just giving a reason why he might be batting 2nd.

miked · 06-20-2014, 12:12 PM

I know we like OPS+ because it accounts for park effects, etc. But Upton was not good as a Ray. His batting averages from 2009-12 were:

.241
.237
.243
.246

He had an uptick in HR which also coincided with a downtick in 2B, BB, and he was averaging about 150 K/season. Sure he wasn't as bad as he was, but he seemed to be a league average CF who couldn't get on base, struck out a lot, and hit ~15-20 HR/season...who got a 5/75M deal.

A case could be made for Uggla, but he was coming off a career year that was a slight outlier. He was not a good defender either.

At this point, Upton is completely unmovable. He is owed 50M, can't field (already like 5 errors this year) and can't hit. There isn't a team that would take him if the Braves paid 100% of his salary.

ISiddiqui · 06-20-2014, 12:29 PM

Upton's OPS+ when he was a Ray isn't even that impressive... aside from one year.

larrymcg421 · 06-20-2014, 02:20 PM

I think it's fair to criticize him for the Upton signing since even at his normal level he wouldn't be worth the money they gave him. My point is that it's a little silly to say he deserves to be fired for these two moves when nobody could've predicted what has happened to Uggla and Upton. And it's not like he doesn't have some other good moves to offset that.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-20-2014, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

And it's not like he doesn't have some other good moves to offset that.

Umm huh?

At least not in terms of MARS (Moves Above Replacement Value).

I had questions about him within the first year, he's done except add to those.

If there's a worse GM in Atlanta history, I'm not sure who it would be (okay aside from those employed in the past by the Atlanta Spirit group).

stevew · 06-20-2014, 05:39 PM

Hold out hope that you've got a GM that couldn't surround LeBron with enough talent to win a title and the same guy that maxed out Larry Hughes.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-20-2014, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Hold out hope that you've got a GM that couldn't surround LeBron with enough talent to win a title and the same guy that maxed out Larry Hughes.

Two words:

Jon. Contract.

stevew · 06-20-2014, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Two words:

Jon. Contract.

um....

yeah but still

miked · 06-20-2014, 07:30 PM

I think Wren has mismanaged most of FA since he's been here, done little to improve the good farm he was left with, and made no discernible moves to improve the major league team when they are in the race. Now he's no Omar Minaya, but I can't think of what he should get credit for other than doing nothing.

stevew · 06-22-2014, 05:02 PM

Quote:

The Red Sox have signed 11th round selection Karsten Whitson for $100,000, according to Alex Speier of WEEI.com. Whitson was formerly selected ninth overall in the 2010 Rule 4 draft by the Padres, but he turned down a $2.1MM bonus to attend the University of Florida. Speier adds that Whitson was recently gunned at 96 mph with an 88 mph slider (via Twitter).

Good job good effort going to college.

Suburban Rhythm · 06-22-2014, 07:31 PM

So at what point do you just send every guy from 3rd?

sterlingice · 06-22-2014, 07:33 PM

Yeah, that seemed like a really weak call. We need some clarity. It's almost like 1B interference but without the benefit of ever being a force

SI

stevew · 06-22-2014, 08:09 PM

Send everyone now

BishopMVP · 06-23-2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Good job good effort going to college.

Sounds like the advisor or possibly family screwed it up, agreeing to a deal pre-draft and then asking for more money after. Reports claim Whitson was sobbing trying to take the deal. He did get to spend 4 years as an undergrad at Florida (and graduated), won a couple SEC Championships and made a trip to Omaha, so I don't feel too bad for him. And of course, it could work out great for the Red Sox. His velocity is back, so if he can regain his feel for pitching, that's a good risk for an 11th round pick who didn't cost any slot money.

July 2nd IFA period is coming up, and the rumors are that the Yankees are planning to go wayyyyyyyyyyy over their cap. If they do, that'll probably quicken the rush to go to an international draft.

Subby · 06-23-2014, 04:10 PM

Nice split with the Braves over the weekend. Hopefully getting Ramos back this week and Harper back next week will kick things into overdrive. The pitching has been incredible recently.

#natstalk

cartman · 06-23-2014, 04:12 PM

Rangers are 5 games below .500 for the first time since the 2008 season. I'm now a firm believer in the Nolan Ryan curse.

BishopMVP · 06-23-2014, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Nice split with the Braves over the weekend. Hopefully getting Ramos back this week and Harper back next week will kick things into overdrive. The pitching has been incredible recently.

#natstalk

Crazy stat about Harper - he's rehabbing at the Single-A affiliate, and he's still the 3rd youngest player on that team.

Subby · 06-23-2014, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Crazy stat about Harper - he's rehabbing at the Single-A affiliate, and he's still the 3rd youngest player on that team.

Wow. That makes sense when you say it, but no less amazing.

sterlingice · 06-23-2014, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Crazy stat about Harper - he's rehabbing at the Single-A affiliate, and he's still the 3rd youngest player on that team.

Sick

SI

stevew · 06-23-2014, 09:25 PM

I hope the Yankees destroy the signing limits. An international draft would be sweet.

stevew · 06-23-2014, 09:30 PM

Also how dumb is it that the Cubs can't exceed 250K on a player but got a bunch of tradeable slot amounts anyways.

sterlingice · 06-23-2014, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I hope the Yankees destroy the signing limits. An international draft would be sweet.

Have they been doing that so far? I haven't heard any news about it

SI

stevew · 06-23-2014, 10:10 PM

They have some unofficial signings chambered but it starts like July 1.

BishopMVP · 06-24-2014, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I hope the Yankees destroy the signing limits. An international draft would be sweet.

Ehh... the teams willing to scout and spend have gotten more than their share of talent, and it isn't really related to market size - Oakland signed Ynoa, the Twins Sano, etc. I also really like the ability to find a diamond in the rough, like the Red Sox did with Bogaerts or the Pirates did with Polanco. At a certain point, why are we giving so much incentive to finish last - the Astros have clearly been tanking to finish last instead of trying to win 70-75 games the past couple seasons.

Signing period starts July 2nd, but most players are linked to or rumored to have handshake agreements with certain teams. Of course, a handshake with a 16 year old (or a buscone) is only worth so much, and there's a lot of misinformation put out by agents trying to make it sound like their client is more in demand than he actually is. The Red Sox are also rumored to be going over, but only signing 2 top players - albeit the top 2 pitchers.

sterlingice · 06-24-2014, 02:35 PM

I think if there's a good enough draft and you have enough handshake agreements with top guys, it's worth totally blowing things up, spending $30M that one year just to sign 5 first rounders worth of talent. That said, you pay 100% tax if you go $10M over slot and lose 2 1st round picks so you'd have to have quite the haul.

SI

Vince, Pt. II · 06-25-2014, 05:03 PM

What is the general unbiased observer's opinion of Tim Lincecum at this point? It seems that he goes about like so:

Awful start (7 k's)
Mediocre start
Awful start with a bunch of bad luck (so it's easy to convince yourself it's not him)
Awful start
Dominating start
Awful start (7 k's)

He's having one of those dominating starts right now.

cartman · 06-25-2014, 05:40 PM

Now, let's see him throw a no-hitter against a team OTHER than the Padres.

Warhammer · 06-25-2014, 05:43 PM

He completed the no-no.

markprior22 · 06-26-2014, 08:27 AM

Anyone know why the Cubs-Nats aren't playing this Sunday? They play today, tomorrow and a DH Saturday. Kind of odd to have Sunday off...I assume there is a particular reason.

rowech · 06-26-2014, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markprior22

Anyone know why the Cubs-Nats aren't playing this Sunday? They play today, tomorrow and a DH Saturday. Kind of odd to have Sunday off...I assume there is a particular reason.

Gay Pride Parade

markprior22 · 06-26-2014, 08:44 AM

Ok...I'm pretty much at a loss for words

Lathum · 06-26-2014, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markprior22

Ok...I'm pretty much at a loss for words

why?

Ronnie Dobbs3 · 06-26-2014, 09:16 AM

Somehow we'll all soldier on through life without those words

Chief Rum · 06-26-2014, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

why?

Actually it is a surprise. For the most part, all baseball cities have huge events like that, but they still manage to have their baseball schedules without seriously diverting from the normal baseball series schedule.

But I don't know how close the Gay Pride parade is to the stadium or the issues surrounding that particular area and its impact.

But, main point, not sure why you would be surprised if markprior was surprised by that schedule change. I am, too (although I have never been at a loss for words lol).

Logan · 06-26-2014, 10:20 AM

Probably because "huh, that's surprising" reads a little differently than "I'm pretty much at a loss for words".

Chief Rum · 06-26-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Probably because "huh, that's surprising" reads a little differently than "I'm pretty much at a loss for words".

Perhaps. But then I don't automatically make the jump to labeling someone homophobic like some do here, I think.

stevew · 06-26-2014, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Perhaps. But then I don't automatically make the jump to labeling someone homophobic like some do here, I think.

Would depend if you already knew why the game was cancelled and wanted to act "shocked" about it tho

06-19-2014, 10:31 PM	#1053
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	The hits just keep on coming in Atlanta. Broken bone in the elbow of Gavin Floyd, although Freddi says it is not related to his recent TJ surgery. Gavin Floyd of Atlanta Braves leaves with apparent elbow injury - ESPN __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

06-20-2014, 06:23 AM	#1054
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	And BJ Upton goes 0-5 with 2 Ks from the 2 spot. He's now batting .208 (OBP of .270) with 87 Ks in 65 games. Is Wren forcing Freddi to play him so he doesn't look worse than he already does for signing him? I can't imagine in what world you not only continue to play him, but bat him 2nd. Not that Schafer is better... __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

06-20-2014, 07:47 AM	#1057
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	The moves I keep hearing are to call up Bethancourt or Laroud from AAA to catch and move Gattis to the OF, putting Heyward in CF. But it seems like Wren should be able to deal for an OF (we don't need a CF per se). __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

06-20-2014, 10:40 AM	#1061
Matthean Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2008	__________________ Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.

06-20-2014, 12:12 PM	#1065
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	I know we like OPS+ because it accounts for park effects, etc. But Upton was not good as a Ray. His batting averages from 2009-12 were: .241 .237 .243 .246 He had an uptick in HR which also coincided with a downtick in 2B, BB, and he was averaging about 150 K/season. Sure he wasn't as bad as he was, but he seemed to be a league average CF who couldn't get on base, struck out a lot, and hit ~15-20 HR/season...who got a 5/75M deal. A case could be made for Uggla, but he was coming off a career year that was a slight outlier. He was not a good defender either. At this point, Upton is completely unmovable. He is owed 50M, can't field (already like 5 errors this year) and can't hit. There isn't a team that would take him if the Braves paid 100% of his salary. __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

06-20-2014, 07:21 AM	#1055
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	They have no one better, but there's no logical reason to bat him second.

06-20-2014, 07:50 AM	#1058
rowech Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2006	Batting struggling players second is pretty common. Leadoff guy gets on and if he's a threat to steal, second batter will see fastballs. In addition, pitchers won't want to face number three and four hitters with guy(s) on so he will be willing to pitch more directly to the number two guy. Goes back a long way actually.

06-20-2014, 11:37 AM	#1063
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	Interesting article on pitching - The Essence of Velocity: The pitching theory that could revolutionize baseball, if only the sport would embrace it - SBNation.com Sheds some light on the Trevor Bauer situation in Arizona.

06-20-2014, 12:29 PM	#1066
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Upton's OPS+ when he was a Ray isn't even that impressive... aside from one year. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

06-20-2014, 02:20 PM	#1067
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	I think it's fair to criticize him for the Upton signing since even at his normal level he wouldn't be worth the money they gave him. My point is that it's a little silly to say he deserves to be fired for these two moves when nobody could've predicted what has happened to Uggla and Upton. And it's not like he doesn't have some other good moves to offset that. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

06-20-2014, 05:39 PM	#1069
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Hold out hope that you've got a GM that couldn't surround LeBron with enough talent to win a title and the same guy that maxed out Larry Hughes.

06-20-2014, 07:30 PM	#1072
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	I think Wren has mismanaged most of FA since he's been here, done little to improve the good farm he was left with, and made no discernible moves to improve the major league team when they are in the race. Now he's no Omar Minaya, but I can't think of what he should get credit for other than doing nothing. __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

06-22-2014, 07:31 PM	#1074
Suburban Rhythm Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pittsburgh	So at what point do you just send every guy from 3rd? __________________ "Do you guys play fast tempos with odd time signatures?" "Yeah" "Cool!!"

06-22-2014, 07:33 PM	#1075
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Yeah, that seemed like a really weak call. We need some clarity. It's almost like 1B interference but without the benefit of ever being a force SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

06-22-2014, 08:09 PM	#1076
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Send everyone now

06-23-2014, 04:10 PM	#1078
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Nice split with the Braves over the weekend. Hopefully getting Ramos back this week and Harper back next week will kick things into overdrive. The pitching has been incredible recently. #natstalk __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

06-23-2014, 04:12 PM	#1079
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Rangers are 5 games below .500 for the first time since the 2008 season. I'm now a firm believer in the Nolan Ryan curse. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

06-23-2014, 09:25 PM	#1083
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I hope the Yankees destroy the signing limits. An international draft would be sweet.

06-23-2014, 09:30 PM	#1084
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Also how dumb is it that the Cubs can't exceed 250K on a player but got a bunch of tradeable slot amounts anyways.

06-23-2014, 10:10 PM	#1086
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	They have some unofficial signings chambered but it starts like July 1.

06-24-2014, 02:35 PM	#1088
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	I think if there's a good enough draft and you have enough handshake agreements with top guys, it's worth totally blowing things up, spending $30M that one year just to sign 5 first rounders worth of talent. That said, you pay 100% tax if you go $10M over slot and lose 2 1st round picks so you'd have to have quite the haul. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

06-25-2014, 05:03 PM	#1089
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	What is the general unbiased observer's opinion of Tim Lincecum at this point? It seems that he goes about like so: Awful start (7 k's) Mediocre start Awful start with a bunch of bad luck (so it's easy to convince yourself it's not him) Awful start Dominating start Awful start (7 k's) He's having one of those dominating starts right now.

06-25-2014, 05:40 PM	#1090
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Now, let's see him throw a no-hitter against a team OTHER than the Padres. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

06-25-2014, 05:43 PM	#1091
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	He completed the no-no.

06-26-2014, 08:27 AM	#1092
markprior22 High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, il	Anyone know why the Cubs-Nats aren't playing this Sunday? They play today, tomorrow and a DH Saturday. Kind of odd to have Sunday off...I assume there is a particular reason.

06-26-2014, 08:44 AM	#1094
markprior22 High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, il	Ok...I'm pretty much at a loss for words

06-26-2014, 09:16 AM	#1096
Ronnie Dobbs3 High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2013	Somehow we'll all soldier on through life without those words

06-26-2014, 10:20 AM	#1098
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Probably because "huh, that's surprising" reads a little differently than "I'm pretty much at a loss for words".

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