COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[Edward64]

Wife got steroids and zpack if that helps you. Worked for her (runner also)

[Edward64]

I had read about below when it came out on Mon.

I was at my pharmacy and asked about it. He said he's not heard anything about a Fall Covid shot.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/12/new-...taff-says.html

U.S. Food and Drug Administration staff said updated Covid boosters should target XBB omicron subvariants for the upcoming fall and winter vaccination campaign.

The campaign should feature a monovalent vaccine targeting either XBB.1.5, XBB.1.16, or XBB.2.3, the staff said in a briefing document.

A panel of external advisors to the agency will meet Thursday to recommend a strain for new Covid-19 shots to target later this year.

Pfizer, Moderna and Novavax will be expected to update their jabs in time for the fall once that coronavirus strain is selected.

I do think it's fair to ask if this booster is needed for most people (if there isn't an emergence of another worrisome variant). I've had 2+1+1+1, no underlying issues etc. The recent downward trend for hospitalizations & deaths is pretty significant (see graphic).

CDC COVID Data Tracker

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I had read about below when it came out on Mon.

I was at my pharmacy and asked about it. He said he's not heard anything about a Fall Covid shot.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/12/new-...taff-says.html


I do think it's fair to ask if this booster is needed for most people (if there isn't an emergence of another worrisome variant). I've had 2+1+1+1, no underlying issues etc. The recent downward trend for hospitalizations & deaths is pretty significant (see graphic).

CDC COVID Data Tracker

Just like for the flu shot, it is important for everyone to get vaccinated to raise the level of herd immunity. It's more important than with flu, really, since it's more dangerous (don't just look at 'survival rate') and more transmissible.

[Ksyrup]

I feel like there should be a ton of these types of state medical board decisions happening all over the country, and not just because a journalist set it up to get a waiver for their dog.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/artic...loses-license/

[flere-imsaho]

Agreed.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Just like for the flu shot, it is important for everyone to get vaccinated to raise the level of herd immunity. It's more important than with flu, really, since it's more dangerous (don't just look at 'survival rate') and more transmissible.

Following up on the "don't just look at the survival rate" from above.

Between 22% and 33% of those recovering from COVID get "brain fog."
Mid and long-term neurological and neuropsychiatric manifestations of post-COVID-19 syndrome: A meta-analysis - PubMed
Just a moment...
One-Year Trajectory of Cognitive Changes in Older Survivors of COVID-19 in Wuhan, China: A Longitudinal Cohort Study | Dementia and Cognitive Impairment | JAMA Neurology | JAMA Network

COVID is associated with long-term cognitive dysfunction and acceleration of Alzheimer's Symptoms
https://aaic.alz.org/downloads2021/C...ysfunction.pdf

If you had COVID, several of your organs could be aging 3-4 years faster
https://abc7chicago.com/covid-long-h...dney/12340213/
Just a moment...
Long-term neurologic outcomes of COVID-19 | Nature Medicine
Long-term cardiovascular outcomes of COVID-19 | Nature Medicine

Severe COVID linked with brain aging
Severe COVID-19 linked with brain aging, says study – Harvard Gazette
Severe COVID-19 is associated with molecular signatures of aging in the human brain | Nature Aging

Repeat COVID-19 infections increase risk of organ failure, death
Repeat COVID-19 infections increase risk of organ failure, death – Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis
Repeat COVID is riskier than first infection, study finds | Reuters
Acute and postacute sequelae associated with SARS-CoV-2 reinfection | Nature Medicine

Get vaccinated, stay up-to-date with boosters.

[Flasch186]

My Wife's mom's dementia went into hyperdrive after she got covid FWIW

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I was at my pharmacy and asked about it. He said he's not heard anything about a Fall Covid shot.

Okay, looks like Sept for the boosters. I'm a little impressed it'll only take 2-3 months to ramp up, produce & distribute the shots.

I did read elsewhere the shots won't be covered by the government anymore but it'll be up to insurance to pickup/subsidize the $100+ shot.

Our fall COVID boosters will likely be a monovalent XBB formula | Ars Technica

Our fall COVID boosters will likely be a monovalent XBB formula

If all goes smoothly, the FDA is expecting new shots around September.

[Ksyrup]

We head out for a cruise on September 6th so doubtful I'd be able to get it in time. And I just finally got COVID about a month ago for the first time, so maybe it's not as important for me. Still, I'll probably get it before our late January cruise.

Almost immediately after our February cruise, my wife ended up with both Covid and shigella. So... Yeah.

[Edward64]

Did I count 3 cruises in little over a year?

[Ksyrup]

Yep. And likely another next May when we are in the UK.

Making up for lost time.

[Edward64]

Nice.

Best site to find cruises and read reviews?

e.g. I always start off with Google Travel/Flights for airfare

[Ksyrup]

The Alaska cruise, which is in September, was supposed to happen in June of 2020. That didn't happen for obvious reasons. We finally decided to do it over a year ago. That one was on the books for a long time.

Then last summer we did a vacation to Kauai with our kids and my parents which included a vow renewal. My wife's parents are nearly 80, don't travel much and don't really have the money, so they didn't/couldn't come. Wife and I felt bad so we decided to take them on a cruise this past February.

Then my parents started dropping hints about a cruise, so guess what? Next January, we're doing eastern Caribbean with them (did western with my wife's parents). It's this neverending tit-for-tat BS that I thought would end when both kids graduated HS, but no.

And then wife and I are going to London next May and I'm thinking about a 4 day cruise to Amsterdam and Belgium just to see a couple different countries while over there. That one's still up in the air.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Nice.

Best site to find cruises and read reviews?

e.g. I always start off with Google Travel/Flights for airfare

CruisePlum.com.

I also spend too much time crawling through the cruise critic message boards and have registered with about half-dozen cruise lines to get deals sent to me.

[Edward64]

Thanks.

Wife takes Dramamine for air travel but we've talked about taking a short cruise on not too rough waters (assume Caribbean in non-hurricane season) to see what happens.

I really, really want to try the all you can eat seafood buffets!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

We head out for a cruise on September 6th so doubtful I'd be able to get it in time. And I just finally got COVID about a month ago for the first time, so maybe it's not as important for me. Still, I'll probably get it before our late January cruise.

Almost immediately after our February cruise, my wife ended up with both Covid and shigella. So... Yeah.

We leave for Alaska in 3 weeks. I belong to several FB groups for the cruises. There used to be several posts a week about covid and about 6 months ago they just stopped. I haven't seen one in months so hopefully it has really tapered off.

TBH it isn't a concern to me at all. I'm excited for the unlimited adult beverage package.

[Ksyrup]

I'm not worried about it - we're doing 2 more cruises within a year of the first - but on the CC Celebrity board, a week or so ago I saw back-to-back posts about Covid and Norovirus from the same ship (different sailings) in May. Given my wife's luck, I'm sure if there's something on our September cruise, she'll get it.

[PilotMan]

Just booked our 3rd cruise, on Celebrity again, for October. I know I'll try and get my 3rd booster for sure, but it feels like the standard norovirus is as much or more of a threat now. I don't see covid outbreaks being either overly publicized or paid much attention to at this point.

[Ksyrup]

Where are you going in October?

[PilotMan]

Equinox on the 8th. Six night going to Grand Cayman, Cozumel and Bimini.

[Edward64]

Nice post-mortem article on Covid antibodies.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1-4-am...l_twitter_abcn

By the end of 2022, about one in four American adults and older teenagers still hadn't contracted COVID-19, according to new federal data.
:
The data suggests 77.5% of those aged 16 and older had antibodies from COVID-19 infection by the time 2022 ended, according to the agency's final estimates, which is up from the 48.8% estimate at the beginning of the year.

I'm the 1 in 4 as far as I know.

Meanwhile, when including people who had antibodies either from infection, by getting vaccinated or from a combination of the two, the CDC estimated that's about 96.7% of the population.

There are probably differing levels/amount of antibodies. Don't know how significant the 96.7% is by itself. Be more helpful if the article had a breakdown of "little, middling, a lot"

"Despite the fact that the various COVID variants are so very contagious, isn't it remarkable that, by the end of last year, only three-quarters -- plus a little bit -- of our population had had an infection and that may be a little but surprising," Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of preventive medicine and infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, told ABC News.

Yes, this is a little bit surprising.

Below is rationale on why 25% don't have Covid antibodies (vs. from vaccinations).

Experts said there are a few reasons why Americans may have yet to contract COVID-19 including living being more diligent about mitigation measures such as mask-wearing and living in a more rural area.

"We have a large rural population in the United States, and it may be that this virus has not reached everyone who lives in a more sparsely populated part of the country," Schaffner said. "Obviously, if you live in big cities where you encounter people, there are going to be many more opportunities for transmission."

[Ksyrup]

I got the original 2 shots plus 3 boosters and finally got it in May for the 1st time. Don't know how, where or why. And I got multiple symptoms - started as sinus headache and scratchy throat, turned into bad sore throat and cold/hot flashes, then after a couple days morphed into more of the original COVID symptoms of lack of taste/smell and congestion, head fog, lack of energy, etc. Took me almost 3 full weeks and some drugs the final week to full get over it.

[Edward64]

What drugs did you take?

[Ksyrup]

Prednisone and a RX cough medicine.

[Ghost Econ]

Same thing happened to me last month as happend to KSyrup. However I tested negative 3 times. Started and progressed the same way. Had a cough until a few days ago and still feels like a little something is in my chest.

Worst part was the lack of taste/smell. My family treats my nose like I'm Gus from Psych.

So either I had COVID and just continued to test negative (my wife was sick the week before, lesser symptoms, and was negative) or I legit had something else that mimics COVID. Either way, I've still never tested positive for COVID... but I've been sick like 10 times since it started

[Edward64]

Interesting article on human-deer Covid.

Covid-19 spread between humans and deer, study shows, raising concerns about animal reservoirs | CNN

People spread the virus that causes Covid-19 to wild white-tailed deer in the United States more than 100 times in late 2021 and early 2022, according to a new study from the US Department of Agriculture’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service. The infection circulated widely in the deer population, and in at least three instances, researchers suspect that humans caught the virus from deer.

The study also found that many coronavirus lineages such as Alpha, Delta and Omicron continued to circulate in deer after they’d left the human population.

A little bit ominous.

In at least three cases, human infections cataloged in databases closely matched the genetic sequences of viruses previously carried by deer, leading researchers to suspect that those people could have caught their infections from the animals.

See below on how it could have happened. If you have an outdoor cat and live where deer roam ...

Humans may come into contact with deer directly while feeding or hunting them, or through droppings. House cats who spend time outdoors could also act like a kind of intermediary, Weese says, catching the virus outside and bringing it home with them.

Cats are susceptible to the virus too, as are many other species that are farmed – such as mink – or kept in zoos.

[JPhillips]

Some county-level GOP parties in FL are now asking DeSantis to ban the vaccine.

Meanwhile, RFK Jr. said that the virus was engineered to attack Caucasians and blacks and to spare Chinese and Ashkenazi Jews.

[Ksyrup]

Even before Covid, I never wanted to move back to Florida. Although, my best opportunities for jobs would probably be back there. But since then? I'd have to exhaust pretty much every job opportunity before I agreed to move back. The only remaining family we have there are on my wife's side, and they have all turned into right-wing antivaxx kooks.

[CrimsonFox]

None of the deer come near me I just want to love them.

[Edward64]

I'm trying to envision the first time humans gave it to deer.

I mean odds are they didn't get it from our left-over food right? (Supposedly difficult for human to get it from groceries).

Surely deer aren't attracted to human/cat poop?

Humans wouldn't get close enough to sneeze on a living deer?

Deers don't eat dead carcasses (human or cat)?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

None of the deer come near me I just want to love them.

Hah, ask the BG3 developers to come out with a DLC for that. Can't be too difficult as they have a "bear" already

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

None of the deer come near me I just want to love them.

[Edward64]

Okay, I guess that's one way for human to deer transmission.

Reminds me of the video of a tourist fighting with an aggressive kangaroo.

[flere-imsaho]

Ticks & mosquitos, Edward.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

lol

[CrimsonFox]

yeah seriously i don't buy this....covid transmitted because of human/feer interaction theory

totally don't buy it

waiting for next theory

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Ticks & mosquitos, Edward.

I googled on it and there's not alot of evidence for human-to-human with ticks & mosquitos. So I'd think also unlikely with human-to-deer.

[Edward64]

Okay, here are some theories below.

I can actually see the first re: waste water because we know we can track Covid via poop in waste water.

For the second, I guess if we left out half-eaten pizza or like, the deer could ingest some infected saliva. It also mentioned about petting deer, I can't believe one can get close enough though.

How Did Deer Get COVID-19—And What Could It Mean For Humans?

... suspects the most likely route of transmission was through wastewater. A lot of the coronavirus is shed out in feces—it goes into the sewer and eventually, that sewage can make its way into natural waterways where deer drink, he says.

The second theory is that deer contracted the virus by directly interacting with humans. "Deer are pretty common in urban spaces," Ogunseitan, who focuses on zoonotic disease control, tells Health. They rummage through our trash, eat our garbage, and wander into our lawns. A lot of people want to feed deer — they leave food outside for them or pet them. "Those are all opportunities for human-to-animal transmission and vice-versa," Ogunseitan said.

Finally, we know the virus can cross over into a wide range of species, so there may very well be intermediate hosts like mice or rats. "There could be other animals involved that are more habituated to humans and then are interacting with deer," Christine Johnson, VMD, MVPM, Ph.D., a professor of epidemiology and ecosystem health at University of California Davis, tells Health.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I googled on it and there's not alot of evidence for human-to-human with ticks & mosquitos. So I'd think also unlikely with human-to-deer.

Nonetheless, a number of diseases are transmitted this way, like Lyme, most notably.

[Edward64]

More details in the article but basically about 20% of population may have a gene HLA-B that protects them from getting Covid or being asymptomatic.

It would be neat to get that test done but not very likely for the regular person.

Why some folks never got sick from COVID: It could be in their genes : Goats and Soda : NPR

Scientists estimate that over 20% of people who get infected with COVID never have any symptoms – and a portion of them never even know they were infected. Now a new study published in Nature on July 19 says their genetics might be why the virus didn't make them sick.

Some people have a version of a gene in their immune system called HLA-B that protects them from feeling the effects of the virus. The study found that people with this special HLA-B variant are 2 to 8 1/2 times more likely to be asymptomatic than those without the variant.

There are hundreds of different HLA variants. Hollenbach found that one of them, HLA-B*15:01, was associated with asymptomatic COVID.

"To be fair, not everybody that has [HLA-B*15:01] will be asymptomatic," Hollenbach says. "But it was a really clear, robust and replicable association."

[albionmoonlight]

I used a different bathroom in my work building today, and it still had up one of the very early signs about preventing SARS-COVID-19 that no one has gotten around to taking down. One of the recommendations? Don't travel to China. That was a blast from the past.

Really crazy the journey we've all been on over the last 4 years.

[Edward64]

There's a couple restaurants (Indian & Chinese) that still have signs about wearing masks and about company not being liable. The latter makes sense for CYA but you'd think the masks would be removed.

Yup, crazy journey. I feel more for kids who were in school & college. I can't help but feel they missed out on some happier, less stressful years.

[stevew]

For the 2nd time in less than a year a suicidal deer ran in front of my car. Covid or not, the deer are actively trying to kill us.

[Edward64]

Long Covid and now Long Vax.

Just a moment...

... a debilitating suite of symptoms that resembles Long Covid, has been more elusive, its link to vaccination unclear and its diagnostic features ill-defined. But in recent months, what some call Long Vax has gained wider acceptance among doctors and scientists, and some are now working to better understand and treat its symptoms.

Article mentions small fiber neuropathy and POTS, but focuses more on POTS (not sure if that's significant).

One is small fiber neuropathy, a condition Oaklander studies, in which nerve damage can cause tingling or electric shock–like sensations, burning pain, and blood circulation problems. The second is a more nebulous syndrome, with symptoms sometimes triggered by small fiber neuropathy, called postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS). It can involve muscle weakness, swings in heart rate and blood pressure, fatigue, and brain fog.
:
Both are also common in patients with Long Covid, where they’re often attributed to an immune overreaction.

Article also gives some numbers but basically, it's real, unknown % impacted from vaccinations, no breakdown on which type of vaccination (mRNA or more conventional), and need more research.

... Tae Chung, a neuromuscular physiatrist who runs the POTS clinic at Johns Hopkins University. “I didn’t have quantitative data to back it up, but now I feel like I do.” Still, Chung stresses that this paper and other data also suggest COVID-19 vaccines protect against POTS and other Long Covid symptoms, and he remains a strong advocate for vaccination.

[PilotMan]

Except it isn't.

its link to vaccination unclear and its diagnostic features ill-defined.

[Edward64]

The link is unclear and diagnostics features ill-defined, but plenty of evidence that "it's real, unknown % impacted from vaccinations, no breakdown on which type of vaccination (mRNA or more conventional), and need more research."

Despite the uncertainties, German Minister of Health Karl Lauterbach acknowledged in March that though rare, Long Covid–like symptoms after vaccination are a real phenomenon. He said his ministry was working to organize funding for studies, although none has been announced so far.

“I’m persuaded that there’s something going on” with these side effects, Krumholz says. “It’s my obligation, if I truly am a scientist, to have an open mind and learn if there’s something that can be done.”

Although Kwan cautions against extrapolating these numbers to a wider population, he says the pattern is intriguing. “Our data show a relatively clear signal that there probably is an increase in POTS after vaccination and after infection,” he says.

Others find the study compelling. “Even last year I was a little bit cautious” about the link between POTS and vaccination, says Tae Chung, a neuromuscular physiatrist who runs the POTS clinic at Johns Hopkins University. “I didn’t have quantitative data to back it up, but now I feel like I do.”

[Brian Swartz]

I would say the surprise would be if there wasn't something like this happening. I'd expect it to just be the nature of the timeframe, similar to how excess deaths continued well past the point where it was explainable only by Covid deaths. From what Edward64 posted, the emphasis to my mind would be on the 'needs more research'. I.e. this is happening and we don't understand why well at all yet.

[PilotMan]

Not saying that there aren't people out there having reactions or complications from a vaccine, but let's not act like it's an epidemic along the lines of covid itself. Or that the comparison is even equitable. That's the primary argument anti vaxxers use and it's a nothingburger in the grand scheme of things.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I would say the surprise would be if there wasn't something like this happening. I'd expect it to just be the nature of the timeframe, similar to how excess deaths continued well past the point where it was explainable only by Covid deaths. From what Edward64 posted, the emphasis to my mind would be on the 'needs more research'. I.e. this is happening and we don't understand why well at all yet.

I think its beyond anecdotal evidence at this stage, the article had several researchers that said there's something there. It would be good for more detailed research to get a % caused by vaccinations and the severity of it, by age and type of vaccination etc. Seems like we are only at the very beginnings of studying this.

Your excess deaths comment is interesting and hadn't thought about it. Have to read up more on it.

[MJ4H]

Excess deaths has not continued past what can be explained by covid. Covid infections damage your body long term. If you've had covid, it raises your risk of many, many risky occurences. It damaged health nationwide and mortality will increase for a long time as a result.

This "long vax" stuff is very theoretical and very rare. It's not something people should be considering when deciding to get vaccinated or not. Anything that causes an immune response in your body can cause issues for a small number of people. That is nothing new or surprising. It is also not even remotely common.