Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[Toddzilla]

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm still bitter about Biden's support for the atrocious bankruptcy bill, but I think Vic is right. Obama needs a VP that will actually help on the stump and in the debates.

Look at the last three Vice Presidents: Dan Quayle, Al Gore and Dick Cheney. During the campaign, these guys were given marching orders to trash the presidential candidate of the opposing party. This seems to be a recipe for success, as much as some try to downplay the need for negative campaigning. Biden fits this role perfectly.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Why can't the vulture media do it's job after the fact instead of inventing so-called newsworthy events?

It's the weekend, there's jack shit else going on that has a shot at pulling viewers/listeners/readers. And it's no accident that Obama timed the impending announcement this way, it's an easy two day front pager if he does it tomorrow.

I always think of it as a "Tawana Brawley story", which picked up momentum by being the lead on an extremely slow news weekend

[Vegas Vic]

One thing about Biden that could be problematic. He was involved in a plagiarism issue that ended his 1988 campaign against Michael Dukakis. I don't know if that would have any traction if it was resurrected, but it was Biden's downfall in 1988.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

One thing about Biden that could be problematic. He was involved in a plagiarism issue that ended his 1988 campaign against Michael Dukakis. I don't know if that would have any traction if it was resurrected, but it was Biden's downfall in 1988.

Well, that and a second mini-scandal regarding cheating at Syracuse law school. Neither one seems terribly "fresh" but let's not kid ourselves and suggest that they won't be bandied about.

[Dutch]

Hillary Clinton FTW!

[Buccaneer]

At least I can claim that Joe Biden and I lived in the same town at the same time.

[QuikSand]

Interesting situation with the inTrade markets today:

At inTrade, there was a fleeting “lock” play available for under two hours today. In two separate sets of mini-markets, the rise of Texas Congressman Chet Edwards as a dark horse created an imbalance. For a time, he was listed individually in the we’ll-add-anyone market, with a SELL price getting as high as about $12. Meanwhile, in a separate set of markets including only a pre-defined group of VP candidates (not including Edwards) the “field” bet (all candidates not listed) was availabe to BUY at 6.50. For at least an hour, the “Sell Edwards, buy the field” combination was available fairly deeply at around a 9.00/6.50 split — if you were liquid at this exchange, that’s a pretty reasonable free money opportunity.

Link: Worthwhile Money » Fleeting opportunity in Dem VP market

[Galaxy]

I'm amazed at the attention, and they way they are doing it, the media has in who is going to be Obama's VP. It's rather funny.

[sterlingice]

I'd be happy with Biden as he was my man for the top job

That said, I love the media falling all over themselves, bitching about how this is awful and hurting the campaign. Frankly, no one else cares. They're at home, doing what they do on the weekend, be it seeing a movie, watching the Olympics, drinking, or whatever. But the media just feels so burned by this that they keep hammering away at Obama.

Frankly, I think it's a pretty smart move- getting a little more media out of this than it would normally get and getting quite a few addresses to text for donations and vote reminders come Novemeber.

SI

[Vegas Vic]

In the end, you've got to go back 48 years to find an election where a vice presidential candidate had any influence on the general election. The reality is that it creates a buzz for a few days, but when people cast their ballots in November it doesn't have any real impact.

[JPhillips]

That's why I think the real genius of this is the cell phone contacts for election day GOTV operations.

[Vegas Vic]

OK, now this story has some teeth:

Secret Service to Protect Biden

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

In the end, you've got to go back 48 years to find an election where a vice presidential candidate had any influence on the general election. The reality is that it creates a buzz for a few days, but when people cast their ballots in November it doesn't have any real impact.

I'm starting to think this is less and less true. I mean the mantra that the VP doesn't matter.

In this day and age when everything can be tagged to a Presidential candidate as a negative, I think they are more and more important. It's a purely negative effect- I don't think a VP can directly win you an election but I think they can help you lose it.

That said, as you said earlier- they indirectly play a role as hit man and that can very much help win/lose an election.

SI

[NoMyths]

Heh...now CNN's saying that it's Biden.

[Arles]

Sources: Obama picks Joe Biden as VP candidate - CNN.com

Multiple Democratic sources confirm to CNN that Sen. Barack Obama has selected Sen. Joseph Biden as his vice presidential nominee. A text message with the announcement will be sent to Obama's supporters sometime Saturday morning. Both men are expected to appear at a rally later that day in Springfield, Illinois.

[Galaxy]

I don't expect McCain to announce his VP until after the Democratic convention.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I don't expect McCain to announce his VP until after the Democratic convention.

Of course not. It will be a big story when he does but why fight the news cycle when he can have it all to himself the next week and then ride that wave to the convention and get wall-to-wall good coverage. Plus, having the later convention also tends to help in the polls so all that adds up to a nice bump for McCain and he won't try to spoil that.

SI

[Greyroofoo]

The Person who can play Echoes Wins. Otherwise I'm am voting against every incubative party.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pretty surprised at the selection by Biden. Would he have made this same selection a month ago when his polling numbers were much better? It feels like a safe decision to avoid losing the core Democratic voters, especially in New England where New Hampshire has suddenly become a toss-up, but I'm not sure that it helps him at all with independents or moderate Republicans.

The biggest concern has to be keeping Biden's mouth in check. He's well known for being a quote machine for all the wrong reasons.

[ace1914]

I'm not surprised. He needed to distance himself from Hilary, restore some eroded confidence in his campaign and somebody who can talk bad about McCain while he keeps his suit clean. Good pick.

[Dutch]

I don't know anything about Biden, but I have to admit, when I read "Hillary wasn't on the short-list", I had to give Obama some props for that!

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I don't know anything about Biden, but I have to admit, when I read "Hillary wasn't on the short-list", I had to give Obama some props for that!

+1

Apparently she never was but they kept up the pretense to not totally piss off her hardcores. I wonder if they are a lost cause (the 50% that won't vote for Obama), not only because of lack of VP interest but of what little help Obama has provided in paying off her massive debts?

[Jas_lov]

Biden was Obama's best choice. Biden has been in the senate for 35 years, he's an irish catholic, and he has a life story that people can relate to. He's straight to the point and has the credibility to attack McCain on McCain's biggest strength, foreign policy. Biden was Obama's best choice.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Biden was Obama's best choice. Biden has been in the senate for 35 years, he's an irish catholic, and he has a life story that people can relate to. He's straight to the point and has the credibility to attack McCain on McCain's biggest strength, foreign policy. Biden was Obama's best choice.

and Biden thinks Obama talks clearly and articulately.

[Noop]

Obama-Biden

Osama Bin-Laden

[Noop]

I think McCain is going to waltz to the presidency.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

and Biden thinks Obama talks clearly and articulately.

You forgot that Obama is also clean. And that you can't enter a 7-11 to get a donut without seeing an Indian.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

and Biden thinks Obama talks clearly and articulately.

He also said Obama was not ready to be President. McCain already has an ad out that captures him standing by that statement. Biden was also accused of plagarizing a speech in 1988.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Noop

Obama-Biden

Osama Bin-Laden

I've seen that mentioned several places already. Certainly not the best of name combinations given the circumstances

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

He also said Obama was not ready to be President. McCain already has an ad out that captures him standing by that statement. Biden was also accused of plagarizing a speech in 1988.

FWIW, I'm sure that the Republican VP will have likely said a few unkind things about his running mate. The concern with Biden is less what he has said and more worry about what he has yet to say in the coming months.

[Buccaneer]

Pros and Cons from Time

Halperin on Biden: The Pros and the Cons - TIME

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FWIW, I'm sure that the Republican VP will have likely said a few unkind things about his running mate. The concern with Biden is less what he has said and more worry about what he has yet to say in the coming months.

I thought that McCain ad was pretty weak. My guess is they aren't actually running it anywhere and just used it as free air time from the cable networks. I guess it at least keeps McCain in the discussion.

[JPhillips]

Two good quotes from Republican Senators. The Lugar one surprises me a bit.

Lugar

I congratulate Senator Barack Obama on his selection of my friend, Senator Joe Biden, to be his vice-presidential running mate. I have enjoyed for many years the opportunity to work with Joe Biden to bring strong bipartisan support to United States foreign policy.

Hagel

Joe Biden is the right partner for Barack Obama. His many years of distinguished service to America, his seasoned judgment and his vast experience in foreign policy and national security will match up well with the unique challenges of the 21st Century. An Obama-Biden ticket is a very impressive and strong team. Biden’s selection is good news for Obama and America

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FWIW, I'm sure that the Republican VP will have likely said a few unkind things about his running mate. The concern with Biden is less what he has said and more worry about what he has yet to say in the coming months.

I agree, but I think you have to look at the good things Biden can bring which I mentioned. Look at it objectively and not just as a Republican hack. Biden does have a big mouth and he may say something stupid and he may not. I'm sure Obama has weighed the risks and rewards. The article Bucc posted does a good job of outlining the good and bad with Biden. I never said that Biden was a good choice, just that he was Obama's best choice. Who else is out there that can go after McCain on foreign policy? Jim Webb and who else?

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

He also said Obama was not ready to be President.

That's not going to be that big of a deal. A classic example is the 1980 republican primary, where George H. W. Bush trashed Ronald Reagan's economic policy, referring to it as "Voodoo Economics". Guess who Reagan picked as his VP?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Two good quotes from Republican Senators. The Lugar one surprises me a bit.

Lugar


Hagel

Don't forget to add a quote from Republican Senator John McCain.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

I agree, but I think you have to look at the good things Biden can bring which I mentioned. Look at it objectively and not just as a Republican hack. Biden does have a big mouth and he may say something stupid and he may not. I'm sure Obama has weighed the risks and rewards. The article Bucc posted does a good job of outlining the good and bad with Biden. I never said that Biden was a good choice, just that he was Obama's best choice. Who else is out there that can go after McCain on foreign policy? Jim Webb and who else?

What was 'Republican hack' about my comment? There's not a person that pays attention to politics who doesn't know about Biden's mouth. There's nothing partisan about that comment. Even the Democrats know that.

I disagree that Biden was his best choice. Obama needed to pick something, anything different. Instead, we got a senator from New England. That didn't appeal to the middle last election and it's not going to this time. If anything, the selection of Biden brings the possibility into play that Obama becomes a campaign M.C. of sorts to draw the crowd while the true debating occurs between McCain and Biden. Biden, for better or worse, is that kind of an overshadowing presence.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Two good quotes from Republican Senators. The Lugar one surprises me a bit.

There's nothing shocking about those two comments from those two senators.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

we got a senator from New England.

Biden was born in PA and is a Senator from DE, where does the New England part comes in?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Biden was born in PA and is a Senator from DE, where does the New England part comes in?

Much like the East Coast folks somehow consider Ohio and Michigan part of the Midwest, anyone west of the Mississippi considers anything north of Washington D.C. part of New England. Having lived in Baltimore, I certainly understand that no one south of New York likes to be lumped into New England, but that's what happens.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I disagree that Biden was his best choice. Obama needed to pick something, anything different. Instead, we got a senator from New England. That didn't appeal to the middle last election and it's not going to this time.

I agree with this, although I don't think its a big deal. Its not Clinton, so its not a bad choice.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Much like the East Coast folks somehow consider Ohio and Michigan part of the Midwest, anyone west of the Mississippi considers anything north of Washington D.C. part of New England. Having lived in Baltimore, I certainly understand that no one south of New York likes to be lumped into New England, but that's what happens.

Ummm...no.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Ummm...no.

If you don't have that directional dyslexia, than your smarter than most of the population. I didn't say I agreed with it, but it does happen relatively often.

[Buccaneer]

I just read this comment at syracuse.com

Biden supported the resolution to go to war with Iraq, supports the death penalty and is anti gun control.

Not really knowing much about Biden, are these true?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If you don't have that directional dyslexia, than your smarter than most of the population. I didn't say I agreed with it, but it does happen relatively often.

Yeah, probably, since I did get a Masters degree in regional geography and did a study on people's perception of where the "Midwest" is. But I had not heard of the calling all of the Northeast "New England", even from anyone out here in the West.

[st.cronin]

I constantly hear educated people describe New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and even Maryland as "New England."

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Much like the East Coast folks somehow consider Ohio and Michigan part of the Midwest, anyone west of the Mississippi considers anything north of Washington D.C. part of New England. Having lived in Baltimore, I certainly understand that no one south of New York likes to be lumped into New England, but that's what happens.

"Midwest" is an informal term, but since when are Ohio and Michigan not considered to be a part of it? Even the US Census considers them to be in the midwest.

Midwestern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"New England" very specifically refers to 6 states. I've never heard anyone call New York (or PA, or NJ) "New England".

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I just read this comment at syracuse.com



Not really knowing much about Biden, are these true?

He voted for the war initially, but as with other Democrats, he has since made statements along the lines of regretting the vote because the war was sold as something it turned out not to be.

on gun control, ontheissues.org's VoteMatch profile on Senator Biden indicates that he's pretty heavily *in favor* of gun control, rather than the opposite.

On the death penalty, he seems to be in favor of capital punishment - the Biden Law of 2004 created a handful of new capital offenses. Including, interestingly, one that would apply to those who kill by acts of terrorism or weapons of mass destruction.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by molson

"Midwest" is an informal term, but since when are Ohio and Michigan not considered to be a part of it? Even the US Census considers them to be in the midwest.

Midwestern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"New England" very specifically refers to 6 states. I've never heard anyone call New York (or PA, or NJ) "New England".

That Wiki entry is a perfect example. It shows ND, SD, NE, KS, and MO all as possibly not being part of the Midwest. Most people in those states would be shocked to hear that and would be even more shocked to hear OH and MI are definitely midwest states.

In that sense, it's no different than many's perception of 'New England'. There's a whole lot of people that would have no problem putting MD, PA, NY, NJ and DE in that category, but I know from living in MD that people in that state will try to distance themselves from that association as much as they can.

Point being, whether you say 'East Coast' or 'New England', the vast majority of the states would view Biden as very similar candidates, whether you can prove otherwise or not by tearing apart their individual policy beliefs.