Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Cronin: Can we not unvote to execute someone as I did not want to see bullet executed in the end (not that it would have made a difference

My bad, I had you as changing your vote, but somehow that didn't make it to the final post. I'll edit the official count.

[Poli]

Outside of the courts, there's really on one answer for this.

THUNDERDOME!

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by KWhit

No. Read the posts before and after. It sounded like Schmidty was saying he had accidentally revealed that he had the seer service tonight. And I said he was dead because that would make him a prime candidate for a wolf kill.

I read it after. I just wasn't sure you were just covering up a mistake. That is all. Like I said, I am not 100% sure that you are guilty of anything, but I just detest the fact that we only have one person arrested and I am not sure if this is the Tarqs plan to make sure one person gets executed go-around. Just seems odd it happened yet again.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so I'm guessing both of you feel it is best to put our wealthiest citizens up for vote? I get the bias against quiet players, but it just feels like there is more risk putting the wealthiest among us up for vote versus a quieter poor player.

Scenario - a Tarq assumes the Consul role for the first of two days. He knows that wealthy citizen Bulletsponge is up for vote today. He sees that Bullet is headed towards a cliff-diving experience and takes a shot at another UTR wealthy guy. Their membership moves up two slots.

Now, is this me just being super-paranoid about our first two elected guys? Perhaps, but I am not a fan with the high-risk/high-reward approach adopted by both Consuls today. I voiced those concerns with Bullet and find myself repeating it again now.

And, like many of us, I'm frustrated at having to vote on a single player yet again today.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

KWhit speak to your fellow senators and explain yourself. Apparently Coffee Warlord says you are clean through the services of Swaggs, but for some reason I am starting to lose trust in both you and Coffee Warlord. I sense deception, but I am not 100% sure. We already spilled the blood of innocents and I just want to cover all the bases.

I have explained myself. It was an unfortuate misunderstanding of what cronin meant when he said that we can offer conditional orders. I thought we'd be covered.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Heh, you crack me up Schmidty

If being talented in Werewolf logic and investigation was like being good in NFL media relations and field management, I would be Ryanus Leafius.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I have explained myself. It was an unfortuate misunderstanding of what cronin meant when he said that we can offer conditional orders. I thought we'd be covered.

I have not once suggested you are a Tarq. Not once. This idea that I am equally to blame does not match up with facts.

You clearly sent in your order first. Fine. No problem. Give me a list, as I asked, of 3 who you might have sent in. I then can chose someone else.

But you say I too could have said who I sent in. True. Of course I didn't decide until after you. At a point when you were no longer around, according to information you had. So I post that I'm sending in ITC's arrest. It doesn't change the fact that we still only get one arrest.

You sent in your order first and so you needed to work with me, in the spirit of Roman collegiality, the reason why we have two consuls and a bedrock of our system of government, to ensure that this sort of mess up does not occur.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, so I'm guessing both of you feel it is best to put our wealthiest citizens up for vote? I get the bias against quiet players, but it just feels like there is more risk putting the wealthiest among us up for vote versus a quieter poor player.

Scenario - a Tarq assumes the Consul role for the first of two days. He knows that wealthy citizen Bulletsponge is up for vote today. He sees that Bullet is headed towards a cliff-diving experience and takes a shot at another UTR wealthy guy. Their membership moves up two slots.

Now, is this me just being super-paranoid about our first two elected guys? Perhaps, but I am not a fan with the high-risk/high-reward approach adopted by both Consuls today. I voiced those concerns with Bullet and find myself repeating it again now.

And, like many of us, I'm frustrated at having to vote on a single player yet again today.

Yes I think it makes sense to knock off the rich people who aren't doing something. The odds are just as great that we're moving up a rich noble to help us as a rich Tarq or that this rich guy who is already there is already a Tarq.

[Barkeep49]

Cronin can you answer the other question about conditional orders and being consul. Frankly, I think it's a bit fair to us what has happened in this situation based on your explicit PM to us that we could send in conditional orders.

[st.cronin]

I will answer by means of a pm to both Consuls.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Cronin can you answer the other question about conditional orders and being consul. Frankly, I think it's a bit fair to us what has happened in this situation based on your explicit PM to us that we could send in conditional orders.

Why are you red and not PMing this? I am just curious about the show of flair.

[Schmidty]

I just want to be flamboyant again.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Why are you red and not PMing this? I am just curious about the show of flair.

Because I think the info should be public as we'll have new consul's tomorrow. I could use a different color, but wanted to make sure cronin knew I was talking to him.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I just want to be flamboyant again.

Great we've got a foppish lawyer. Always a great combo.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Where's the popcorn? I'm looking forward to this.

What is this popcorn. I much prefer the taste of roasted boar.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yes I think it makes sense to knock off the rich people who aren't doing something. The odds are just as great that we're moving up a rich noble to help us as a rich Tarq or that this rich guy who is already there is already a Tarq.

Odds? Yes. Risk? Greater.

We have control of the game early by virtue of numbers, but clearly wrongly killing a rich person is more damaging than wrongly killing a poor person in this game.

I maintain that the reward, at this stage, does not measure up to the risk. If you are taking a random shot at an UTR guy I think the smart play is the ones with less income.

[Antmeister]

I am just bothered by the fact that we can only choose one person to execute. It seems to me that the Tarqs are improving their chances of execution by only having one person to select since there can be no ties. That is why I am getting somewhat weary of Coffee Warlord and KWhit. It may be paranoia, but it seems convenient that this occured again.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Odds? Yes. Risk? Greater.

We have control of the game early by virtue of numbers, but clearly wrongly killing a rich person is more damaging than wrongly killing a poor person in this game.

I maintain that the reward, at this stage, does not measure up to the risk. If you are taking a random shot at an UTR guy I think the smart play is the ones with less income.

I don't see it in nearly these terms at all. I understand the point you're making, but disagree with how you've weighted the values and risk.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

I am just bothered by the fact that we can only choose one person to execute. It seems to me that the Tarqs are improving their chances of execution by only having one person to select since there can be no ties. That is why I am getting somewhat weary of Coffee Warlord and KWhit. It may be paranoia, but it seems convenient that this occured again.

I have been cleared by CW. I believe I am the ONLY player still living that has been cleared through a scan. Also, Sndvls said he trusted me 100% (based on the first use of the word Republic) before he was killed. I have done everything in my power to try to root out the Tarqs. And somehow I am to blame for tonight's arrest situation? Sigh.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I have been cleared by CW. I believe I am the ONLY player still living that has been cleared through a scan. Also, Sndvls said he trusted me 100% (based on the first use of the word Republic) before he was killed. I have done everything in my power to try to root out the Tarqs. And somehow I am to blame for tonight's arrest situation? Sigh.

I don't think today's incident makes you evil. I agree you're likely a good guy. That's not where my frustration comes in at all. In fact I'm guessing that's a large reason why I'm so frustrated. To have a villager so stymie our efforts at hunting out Tarqs, when that was a large reason we were elected, is just plain ole aggravating.

[path12]

Originally Posted by saldana

in case i am dead in ten minutes, i want to give you one of my thoughts.

i said yesterday that it could be possible that a victory condition for the tarquins was to occupy both consul seats and the tribune at the same time....that actually didnt seem logical after i thought about it, since the tribune position is filled randomly in the result of my death, so i have refined the theory.

i would find it possible that if all the wolves reach the highest level of wealth AND they hold both consul positions, they will win the game regardless of how many of us are still alive.

Catching up. (side note: Jesus, five pages in four hours????) I think we might be overthinking victory conditions. I rather think it's some sort of majority in the senate for victory.

[Barkeep49]

Have we learned the priest does?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'm hoping more will be revealed. But I'm thinking of a plan for this next day. I think that Ironus Headus should reveal which service he hired that provided a killer. I think we should pick two other services that are vital for the Senate. I think we should have the three wealthiest Senators (or however many there are in that group) bid on those vital services to assure the Senate has them to use.

This will allow us to corner those services. It will also allow us to test the loyalty of our wealthiest members. Is there any drawback to doing things this way?

Solid idea IMO.

[path12]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The following Senators are currently in jail:

Imus Thecrewus

financial update next, this may take a while.

What the hellus? Just one?

[Poli]

Hitting the chambers, fellas. Good night.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

Just want to let everyone know that I will likely be quite mellow today. A party of sexual slaves showed up at my door last night as a gift. I do not know where they came from - the "gift" was anonymous.

Anyone know the Roman equivalent of smoking after sex? Cause I need it right now.

C'mon, you're Ironhead. You can't be tired.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I don't think today's incident makes you evil. I agree you're likely a good guy. That's not where my frustration comes in at all. In fact I'm guessing that's a large reason why I'm so frustrated. To have a villager so stymie our efforts at hunting out Tarqs, when that was a large reason we were elected, is just plain ole aggravating.

Give me a break. You're acting as if we had some big alliance that we formed with an agreement that we'd do A, B, and C in order to make sure that our arrests would work out, but I instead chose to back out of that agreement and screw everyone over by doing my own thing instead.

You made ONE post asking who I arrested. I said that I sent in a conditional order for an under the radar guy, but I'd rather not say at that point. You didn't respond back saying, "I really think we need to coordinate this" or anything like that. You never mentioned it again.

So to say that you "pleaded" with me to tell you, and to say that I stymied our efforts today is a gross mischaracterization that I can't help but think is a calculated ploy to sow resentment against me and make me look bad.

I will say it again. I did NOTHING wrong today with my arrest action.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Hitting the chambers, fellas. Good night.

Ditto.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Last night, I purchased Balbus Senna's services.

Bulletus Spongeus was absolutely loyal to the Senate.

Nice to know. Day late, but nice to know anyway.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I don't think today's incident makes you evil. I agree you're likely a good guy. That's not where my frustration comes in at all. In fact I'm guessing that's a large reason why I'm so frustrated. To have a villager so stymie our efforts at hunting out Tarqs, when that was a large reason we were elected, is just plain ole aggravating.

But according to CW, he only know you weren't doing anything that night. Now this is my reason for suspecting you. You are drumming up a number of lawsuits while also being in the consul.

If you are a Tarq, that would be a great position to try to improve your status while not being a target of execution by the Senate. And by futzing up our process of selecting two people, I am just becoming suspicious. You have two nights to improve your status as consul and that could explain the mass lawsuits. I just find that interesting.

[Antmeister]

By the way, the you is referring to KWhit. I thought I had quoted KWhit's post.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Great we've got a foppish lawyer. Always a great combo.

Red felt tri-corner with lime green feather?

Check

Royal blue doublet with gold buttons?

Check

Pristine low-rise boot-cut Levi 527?

Check

Mauve silk thong?

Check

White clogs from Nurse Mates?

Check

Plays RPGs?

Check



But I play sports and stuff.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

But according to CW, he only know you weren't doing anything that night. Now this is my reason for suspecting you. You are drumming up a number of lawsuits while also being in the consul.

If you are a Tarq, that would be a great position to try to improve your status while not being a target of execution by the Senate. And by futzing up our process of selecting two people, I am just becoming suspicious. You have two nights to improve your status as consul and that could explain the mass lawsuits. I just find that interesting.

What does being consul have to do with lawsuits?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

I just wanna give cronin props, it's obvious he put a lot of thought into this game and I appreciate all the hard work he's putting into it.

Thanks cronin.

Word. I'm finding this a really interesting game.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

If being talented in Werewolf logic and investigation was like being good in NFL media relations and field management, I would be Ryanus Leafius.

I <3 Schmidty.

[ImTheCrew]

why am i choosen of all the UTR players?, Hoops i have yet to request any services... but i insure you im loyal to the republic and id loved to be scanned anyway possible

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by KWhit

What does being consul have to do with lawsuits?

Here is my thinking. If you are on the consul, you can't be selected as one who is treasonous. Therefore you can go on mass lawsuits to try to improve your status are you serve as our consul.

Since CW mentioned that you had not committed a treasonous act that night, I am wondering if you are using the consul as a cover to help the Tarqs almost guarantee two kills since it does eliminate ties.

And since you are not committing any treasonous acts in the shadows, you are using this time to drum up as many lawsuits as you can. Because the rules state that there can be a small chance that treason can be discovered during the lawsuits.

This is my speculation if you are a Tarq.

[path12]

Being lazy (and just a tad bit buzzed) at the moment, I was wondering if it would be too much to ask for the consuls to sum up why they picked Imus Thecrewus to arrest? I know he's been bandied about for his reticence, but is there any other real, like, reason? Seems strange that you would both pick him, because he doesn't stand out to me any more than about five or six others.

[path12]

Originally Posted by ImTheCrew

why am i choosen of all the UTR players?, Hoops i have yet to request any services... but i insure you im loyal to the republic and id loved to be scanned anyway possible

Why on earth would you not even attempt to request any services to this point?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Here is my thinking. If you are on the consul, you can't be selected as one who is treasonous. Therefore you can go on mass lawsuits to try to improve your status are you serve as our consul.

Since CW mentioned that you had not committed a treasonous act that night, I am wondering if you are using the consul as a cover to help the Tarqs almost guarantee two kills since it does eliminate ties.

And since you are not committing any treasonous acts in the shadows, you are using this time to drum up as many lawsuits as you can. Because the rules state that there can be a small chance that treason can be discovered during the lawsuits.

This is my speculation if you are a Tarq.

I do not think Kayus is a Tarq. I don't think Barkeepus is either, but the fact is that until someone finds evidence not to believe Coffeus Yakus then I am inclined to follow other lines of investigation.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

That was me, I sent the Pimpus to Ironhead. He seemed to not trust Alan (the only person I trusted whom is now dead) so I thought he might have been a Tarq. I'm wondering if the fact that 1 person died might be because he is in fact a Tarq and I blocked him by sending whores to his pad or what. I'm still out of it so not sure what all has gone down.

If I were a Tarq there is no way in hell I would reveal that I had a night kill ability. Not even as some kind of trust gaining item - the night kill would be too valuable to even give someone the attempt to block me. I wouldn't even reveal the fact that it did exist. A block on me really doesn't make sense because if someone did die by the sword I would have become public enemy #1.

I was far more suspicious of you that I ever was of Alan and I am still very suspicious of you. You previously posted that you had 3 people in your circle of trust but yet now you say you only truly trusted AlanT? I also previously pushed your reasoning for your trusted list and your response seemed a little passive, especially given what I know of your playing style.

Despite all of that, if you were under arrest today I don't know if I would throw you off the cliff yet. This could all just be me being paranoid, but if anyone has the ability to do any kind of scans today I would urge them to scan Dodgerchick to determine whether she is for or against the Republic. Keep in mind that at this point she is likely either the 1st or 2nd richest member of the Senate, and if ImtheCrew is thrown off the rock she could be the richest. She could either be a powerful ally or a powerful foe. It is worth checking into either way.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

If I were a Tarq there is no way in hell I would reveal that I had a night kill ability. Not even as some kind of trust gaining item - the night kill would be too valuable to even give someone the attempt to block me. I wouldn't even reveal the fact that it did exist. A block on me really doesn't make sense because if someone did die by the sword I would have become public enemy #1.

I was far more suspicious of you that I ever was of Alan and I am still very suspicious of you. You previously posted that you had 3 people in your circle of trust but yet now you say you only truly trusted AlanT? I also previously pushed your reasoning for your trusted list and your response seemed a little passive, especially given what I know of your playing style.

Despite all of that, if you were under arrest today I don't know if I would throw you off the cliff yet. This could all just be me being paranoid, but if anyone has the ability to do any kind of scans today I would urge them to scan Dodgerchick to determine whether she is for or against the Republic. Keep in mind that at this point she is likely either the 1st or 2nd richest member of the Senate, and if ImtheCrew is thrown off the rock she could be the richest. She could either be a powerful ally or a powerful foe. It is worth checking into either way.

I absolutely welcome a scan... I've nothing to hide. You're nitpicky with what you read and yeah, it's probably paranoia but it's alright, I'm often paranoid myself.

AlanT was the 1 person I absolutely trusted. Since Coffee Warlord purchased and acquirerd the same service as I did I'm assuming he's good and by him clearing Kwhit, I'm assuming he's good as well. Am I 100% positive on either of these guys? No, but they're a little higher than others.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Have we learned the priest does?

Alright, I'll put it out there since it doesn't have much of an impact on the game at this point. The priest allows you to make one player vote how you want for both consul and treason. I bid on and won it Day 1. On Day 2 there really was not reason to use it - I had no strong feelings regarding the Consuls and no idea whether Coffee Warlord was guilty or innocent.

With there still being 24 players in the game changing one vote isn't that much of a benefit. As the numbers dwindle it will become a more important service to win for both sides.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

I absolutely welcome a scan... I've nothing to hide. You're nitpicky with what you read and yeah, it's probably paranoia but it's alright, I'm often paranoid myself.

AlanT was the 1 person I absolutely trusted. Since Coffee Warlord purchased and acquirerd the same service as I did I'm assuming he's good and by him clearing Kwhit, I'm assuming he's good as well. Am I 100% positive on either of these guys? No, but they're a little higher than others.

Fair enough at this point. I will hold further judgement until someone I can trust clears you.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

Alright, I'll put it out there since it doesn't have much of an impact on the game at this point. The priest allows you to make one player vote how you want for both consul and treason. I bid on and won it Day 1. On Day 2 there really was not reason to use it - I had no strong feelings regarding the Consuls and no idea whether Coffee Warlord was guilty or innocent.

With there still being 24 players in the game changing one vote isn't that much of a benefit. As the numbers dwindle it will become a more important service to win for both sides.

Shucks. I was really hoping the priest winner found out the faction/role of dead players.

[Barkeep49]

DOLA -- It seems like a real minus to the village not having that info out there at all as the Tarqs know when they've lost one of their own or had a good guy killed. I wish we were in the same position.

[Peregrine]

I have to say that at this point I'm fairly upset with the last two days of screwed up Consul votes. I'm not upset with the consuls involved, but honestly with st. cronin. It seems to me that in both cases (the screw-up with the replacement vote yesterday, and not getting clarification of conditional voting back well before the deadline) that the moderator at least indirectly led to us getting screwed. I mean, I know as well as anyone this stuff happens, but in a game like this where we already have some pretty severe limits on our voting, I think the GM should be bending over backwards to make sure things are clear as crystal to all involved at the Consul level, what they need to do, how to do it, and when to do it by.

Just my two cents.

[Ironhead]

Continuing on what Hoopus Guyus started earlier, this is what the list of services from Day 1 looks like:

Available Services and Who Purchased Them

Animus Sentus, person rumored to be affiliated with the Priesthood - Ironhead
Ardentus Enthusiastus, 2nd best lawyer in Rome - Dodgerchick
Swaggus Swaggus, Best lawyer in Rome - CoffeeWarlord
Titus Ludius, ex-legionnaire - Bullet
Gallus Clarus, ex-legionnaire - Ardent
Blakus Fortunatus, owner of many horses - Anxiety
Lexus Postus, owner of many horses - AlanT
Durus Pimpus, dealer in sexual slaves - ???
Furius Lucius, former warlord of Gaul, enslaved and now freed - ???

Given that we know what Durus Pimpus does it is pretty obvious that Furius Lucius was the service responsible for the kill that day.

Extreme Wealth and up with No Record of Services 1st Day
Schmidtyus Schmidtyus
Marcus Vaughnus
Lonestarus Girlus
Imus Thecrewus


Also, I clearly received a PM regarding my visitation from the sexual slaves. This either means that no one bothered to vote for Durus Pimpus' services on Day 1 or someone has not come out and advised of their visitation. I think I would actually lean towards it not being bid on. A wolf would not send the slaves at another wolf - I would imagine if a villager received the PM about the slaves they would have revealed it. If a villager sent the slaves at pretty much anyone they would probably still come out that they had the service.

[Abe Sargent]

I interrupt this regularly scheduled Werewolf game to bring you the folloiwng annoucemnet. I have posted my Small WW Game with a STAR TREK theme for all of you nerds of nerdly ness. Feel free to stop by and grab a spot.


End announcement

[Narcizo]

I know we're not supposed to swear in Werewolf but what the *expletitive deleted*! Why do I always get the impression that the game is about 50% full of wolves. This is ridiculous, how can we possibly only have one person to vote on again?

The fact that this seems to be a no role reveal game is what I was alluding to when I said we'd learn something from Bulletsponge's death. I was hoping that a wolf would also have made the connection and would try and use the fact before it was commonly known and accuse someone but it doesn't look like that happened.

I've got to say that the no reveal element really means that the odds look stacked against us. So there must be some sort of counterbalance in there somewhere. I think having seer-like roles available is something of a counterbalance. Usually the seer can't reveal their information because of the threat of death. Now a person can come straight out with the information they learn and not fear being killed. However that just doesn't seem to be enough. Maybe we've been over-estimating the number of wolves in play - or maybe they really can only kill by using roles.

I like to try and put together some ideas now but I have to say that this game has me confused to a degree I haven't experienced before when I've been reading or playing. The nearest thing was the Marvel game but there I least I could come up with some sort of suspect list. There just seems to be too many different things going on for me to get a handle on. I'm going to have to read through the thread closely again. I'm not a fan of games where you have to go with your instinct but it looks like this is pushing in that direction.

Once again I'd like people to state who they would like to see being arrested and why. I'd like people to state which services they attempted to aquire, and whether they were successful. I'd like to see some people put themselves forward as candidates as consuls and why.