Werewolf LI Major League (GAME OVER!!! INDIANS--GOOD GUYS--WIN!!!) - Page 23

DaddyTorgo · 08-10-2007, 09:11 PM

don't let gonzo lead a charge on me without scanning me. That would be irresponsible.

I am a villager. The fact that gonzo refuses to scan me and calls that a "wasted" scan should give you all pause.

DaddyTorgo · 08-10-2007, 09:12 PM

clearly this is the play: get hoops lynched and then prey on my play this game to call me "99% a wolf" and get my lynched and you guys are just about at endgame, if not there.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-10-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

clearly this is the play: get hoops lynched and then prey on my play this game to call me "99% a wolf" and get my lynched and you guys are just about at endgame, if not there.

If hoopsguy turns up good, Gonzo goes tomorrow. You won't have to worry about that.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

clearly this is the play: get hoops lynched and then prey on my play this game to call me "99% a wolf" and get my lynched and you guys are just about at endgame, if not there.

If I get hoops lynched and he's a villager, then I get lynched the day after. That play wouldn't work.

KWhit · 08-10-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

JE, KWhit - if you guys have questions about the positions, Gonzo and I are both around. I know I'll be happy to answer.

Heh. Sorry, but I'm not moving my vote. I'm not sure who's telling the truth, but there are two things that make me keep my vote on you.

Would a new player - who's just had 1-2 games under his belt make a fake seer reveal? It's not likely.
Even if he's lying, it is a LOT less of a risk voting for you and losing a scout than it is losing a SEER! You have GOT to see that % play.

I'm happy with the 1 for 1 trade at this point and the fact that you don't see that makes me even more suspicious of you.

KWhit · 08-10-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

clearly this is the play: get hoops lynched and then prey on my play this game to call me "99% a wolf" and get my lynched and you guys are just about at endgame, if not there.

Umm.... No.

If Gonzo's lying he'll go next.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:19 PM

KWhit, I see it but I have the advantage over the rest of the Indians in knowing it is BS.

New player - werewolf is a team sport unless we've got them whittled down to one player. I believe Gonzo changed gears with his play when a teammate shared the new plan with him - that would explain why he started voting for one person and then moved in another direction.

If you want someone who screams wolf to me, it is KWhit. He has been a follower all game long, not the independent thinker that I'm used to playing with in these games.

Gonzo, PurdueBrad, and KWhit - that is what I think you guys are facing the rest of the way. We'll see at the end how close I've been with my guesses this game, I guess.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

I'm happy with the 1 for 1 trade at this point and the fact that you don't see that makes me even more suspicious of you.

I'm fine with it if you guys have a 1:1 trade, but I don't see the wolves making this move if it truly is a 1:1 trade. I suspect you will end up paying 2:1 at least for this transaction.

KWhit · 08-10-2007, 09:23 PM

Hoops, you really do play a good game - even when you're cornered.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:23 PM

Chief, would really appreciate a ruling on my order-of-actions question posted in the thread ...

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I don't see the wolves making this move if it truly is a 1:1 trade.

Nor do I. The wolves wouldn't make a 1:1 trade after losing a wolf in the day and then not killing at night now, would they?

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Hoops, you really do play a good game - even when you're cornered.

In the times I've been down in the vote like this as a wolf I've called it quits and tried to have fun with people leading up to the deadline.

In the times I've been down in the vote like this as a villager I've fought like crazy to try and live another day to help my team. Like ... hmm, like now actually.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Nor do I. The wolves wouldn't make a 1:1 trade after losing a wolf in the day and then not killing at night now, would they?

Hmm, you have some knowledge on the night kill abilities of the wolves? I certainly don't

DaddyTorgo · 08-10-2007, 09:28 PM

if hoops is a villager I think we're screwed and we've lost the game. Otherwise no way the wolves do this.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Hmm, you have some knowledge on the night kill abilities of the wolves? I certainly don't

Well the only thing that would expain it with the ruleset is that the bodyguard blocked the kill. Apart from, of course, some crazy conversion mechanic that you've invented to keep yourself from being lynched.

KWhit · 08-10-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

KWhit, I see it but I have the advantage over the rest of the Indians in knowing it is BS.

But we don't, so we have to play the percentages. I'm not willing to risk losing the seer when we could possibly *gasp* save the scout!

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:30 PM

Gonzo, I find it very interesting that you are the only person who thinks that a conversion ability in a game of werewolf is crazy. Of course it is in your best interests to discredit my story, but conversions exist in probably half of our games. The theme of this game is about a wealthy owner trying to get her team to tank games - conversion absolutely fits with the theme of this game.

And it is the only explanation I can fathom for your seer claim not being contradicted when the seer is still alive.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Gonzo, I find it very interesting that you are the only person who thinks that a conversion ability in a game of werewolf is crazy. Of course it is in your best interests to discredit my story, but conversions exist in probably half of our games. The theme of this game is about a wealthy owner trying to get her team to tank games - conversion absolutely fits with the theme of this game.

Yes, it might well fit in with the theme of the game in theory. But there's no proof or evidence to support you assuming that I must be converted.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

But we don't, so we have to play the percentages. I'm not willing to risk losing the seer when we could possibly *gasp* save the scout!

Playing the percentages will kill a villager and save a wolf. I know this, and the wolves know this. The rest of you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that you played percentages instead of actually trusting your gut, interpreting posts, and playing the game to win.

DaddyTorgo · 08-10-2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Playing the percentages will kill a villager and save a wolf. I know this, and the wolves know this. The rest of you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that you played percentages instead of actually trusting your gut, interpreting posts, and playing the game to win.

i'm either going to feel really good about this post in like 25 minutes, or look really stupid.

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 09:42 PM

Hoops, I am playing to win and that is why my vote is on you.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:43 PM

Good luck with that. I don't think there is anything more to say.

Chief Rum · 08-10-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Thank you for finally asking the question that I've been waiting for someone to ask!

Chief Rum, can you confirm for me, one way or the other, what the order of actions would have been last night if the seer went to scan someone who was also targetted for conversion?

If he is willing to answer that question, then I think it would potentially go a long ways towards clearing me. Unless, of course, the argument will then switch to "well, Hoops must have started as a wolf".

From the exterior perspective, these actions happen at exactly the same time. So order of action doesn't come into play. I have private rules in play to govern eventualities in which two such actions conflict. But they will have to remain private.

This is not to be used as reasoning that any such conflict occurred last night. I am merely answering hoopsguy's question within the confines of my own rule set, as a hypothetical.

KWhit · 08-10-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

From the exterior perspective, these actions happen at exactly the same time. So order of action doesn't come into play. I have private rules in play to govern eventualities in which two such actions conflict. But they will have to remain private.

This is not to be used as reasoning that any such conflict occurred last night. I am merely answering hoopsguy's question within the confines of my own rule set, as a hypothetical.

That's a hell of a non-answer.

Are you an attorney?

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:51 PM

Very helpful

Would have obviously liked a clarification that benefitted my position, but didn't hold out too much hope of getting a direct answer.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:52 PM

Gonzo, having seen you living in this thread all day with me I will never, ever give you the benefit of the doubt for your schedule or time zone as a a reason for not posting. That has come up a few times with Tanglewood (your brother, correct?).

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Very helpful

Would have obviously liked a clarification that benefitted my position, but didn't hold out too much hope of getting a direct answer.

I actually think this makes it clear that a seer could scan a converted player and have them come up wolf.

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 09:55 PM

I'm amazed. I really don't think hoops could fake this kind of bitterness.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

But we don't, so we have to play the percentages. I'm not willing to risk losing the seer when we could possibly *gasp* save the scout!

Nicely played here, although I think your vote/unvote on me earlier is going to make it very hard to escape scrutiny.

Since it is now down to you, I think you have to take your shot at Gonzo tonight. We can't have him adding another person to the CoT. After that, I would go after the guys you fear the most in an end-game situation. I think Lathum is probably the most experienced, toughest out of the remaining guys.

Major kudos to you if you can take this more than another two days - sorry I wasn't able to stretch this out a little further, but you guys were fricking nuts to convert me last night. As previously stated/ranted/whatever ...

Chief Rum · 08-10-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Barkeep asked the question I wanted to know.

Why couldn't hoops have been converted last night?

It would explain wht CR didn't wasnt Gonzo to make any moves yet, plus hoops is a pretty good candidate for conversion since at this point the seer hadn't reveald, however, it would be a good guess that hoops would be one of the top 2 players scanned so when the seer did reveal hoops would come back good .

NOTE: I am posting this close to deadline. This will not affect voting. If you are in a rush to read, do NOT stop to read this post. Come back to it after deadline. THANKS

I am disturbed by a couple issues here, although willingly admit that my approach to things and lack of foresight in putting a rule clamping down on revealing anything from PMs in the deadline interim have contributed largely to this.

The first issue is that Gonzo pretty much revealed my PM, in direct violation of a posted rule regarding PMs. I am allowing some leeway here, because I know he was trying to defend himself from scrutiny, and my PM was the primary reason he did what he did (although I disagree with Gonzo and Barkeep in that what I posted should automatically lead to the conclusion he made). Still, copying PMs is against the rules, and I am assessing a warning to Gonzo to not do that again.

The second issue is that my PM, which was not meant for consumption in this thread, should become a tool affecting the game. I would ask the villagers to disregard this if they can, as this is essentially a meta-game situation. But I know that will be difficult to do (witness the DC/oliegirl issue in the last game, for instance).

Lastly, new rule to be in place here forward. No one is allowed to react in the thread to private PMs received during the interim period from the posting of the lynch to the final night action post until after said night action post has been made.

There are several people who may or may not be receiving PMs from me and to carry on public conversations with deadline information when not everyone else has been properly informed is, IMO, not fair to the spirit of the game and is bad form.

Very serious note: I am not saying Gonzo acted out of turn, and other than his direct quoting of my PM, I have no problems with his action. I am actually more embarrassed for myself for not planning that better. But there is no reason to allow that potential issue to crop up again for the remainder of the game. Thus the new rule.

Thanks and you may now return to your deadline voting.

Chief Rum · 08-10-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

That's a hell of a non-answer.

Are you an attorney?

No, but I play one on TV.

KWhit · 08-10-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Nicely played here, although I think your vote/unvote on me earlier is going to make it very hard to escape scrutiny.

Since it is now down to you, I think you have to take your shot at Gonzo tonight. We can't have him adding another person to the CoT. After that, I would go after the guys you fear the most in an end-game situation. I think Lathum is probably the most experienced, toughest out of the remaining guys.

Major kudos to you if you can take this more than another two days - sorry I wasn't able to stretch this out a little further, but you guys were fricking nuts to convert me last night. As previously stated/ranted/whatever ...

Say WHAT?!?!

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Gonzo, having seen you living in this thread all day with me I will never, ever give you the benefit of the doubt for your schedule or time zone as a a reason for not posting. That has come up a few times with Tanglewood (your brother, correct?).

I wouldn't know about Tangle (correct), but I have had nothing to do at all today so I thought I might as well make sure you were lynched.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 10:01 PM

Jobu made me do it.

Chief Rum · 08-10-2007, 10:01 PM

Time's up.

Tabulating votes.

hoopsguy · 08-10-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Say WHAT?!?!

Do you think Path is a tougher out? I'm not sure what part you don't understand

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

(although I disagree with Gonzo and Barkeep in that what I posted should automatically lead to the conclusion he made).

I didn't say automatically, but I thought it was logical. I do apologize fo rany contribution towards rule breaking I might have participated in.

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Jobu made me do it.

Well played.

DaddyTorgo · 08-10-2007, 10:04 PM

wtf was that post hoops?

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 10:05 PM

It's his final way of sowing confusion. We're better off ignoring it.

DaddyTorgo · 08-10-2007, 10:06 PM

i'm confused

DaddyTorgo · 08-10-2007, 10:06 PM

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

NOTE: I am posting this close to deadline. This will not affect voting. If you are in a rush to read, do NOT stop to read this post. Come back to it after deadline. THANKS

I am disturbed by a couple issues here, although willingly admit that my approach to things and lack of foresight in putting a rule clamping down on revealing anything from PMs in the deadline interim have contributed largely to this.

The first issue is that Gonzo pretty much revealed my PM, in direct violation of a posted rule regarding PMs. I am allowing some leeway here, because I know he was trying to defend himself from scrutiny, and my PM was the primary reason he did what he did (although I disagree with Gonzo and Barkeep in that what I posted should automatically lead to the conclusion he made). Still, copying PMs is against the rules, and I am assessing a warning to Gonzo to not do that again.

The second issue is that my PM, which was not meant for consumption in this thread, should become a tool affecting the game. I would ask the villagers to disregard this if they can, as this is essentially a meta-game situation. But I know that will be difficult to do (witness the DC/oliegirl issue in the last game, for instance).

Lastly, new rule to be in place here forward. No one is allowed to react in the thread to private PMs received during the interim period from the posting of the lynch to the final night action post until after said night action post has been made.

There are several people who may or may not be receiving PMs from me and to carry on public conversations with deadline information when not everyone else has been properly informed is, IMO, not fair to the spirit of the game and is bad form.

Very serious note: I am not saying Gonzo acted out of turn, and other than his direct quoting of my PM, I have no problems with his action. I am actually more embarrassed for myself for not planning that better. But there is no reason to allow that potential issue to crop up again for the remainder of the game. Thus the new rule.

Thanks and you may now return to your deadline voting.

Sorry Chief Rum. I didn't think it was a big deal at all and would be ignored by everyone.

KWhit · 08-10-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Do you think Path is a tougher out? I'm not sure what part you don't understand

Whatever, wolf.

Gonzo · 08-10-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm amazed. I really don't think hoops could fake this kind of bitterness.

It seemed pretty transparent to me, but then again I had the benefit of knowing 100% he was bad.

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

It seemed pretty transparent to me, but then again I had the benefit of knowing 100% he was bad.

Yes you do

.

DaddyTorgo · 08-10-2007, 10:15 PM

and you're going to fail to scan me and lead a lynch ru on a villager here next.

i'm not going to spend my whole Saturday getting upset and defending myself though.

If you all are determined to go that way, go ahead and vote and vote nightfall on it tonight.

I'd rather look elsewhere, but I don't think I have any credibility left to get that to happen.

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 10:15 PM

Also, I have to admit I'm sorry about something. When everyone was posting how they'd apologize to hoops if they're wrong, I really wanted to go "I won't".

There's a reason that the high percentage play is high percentage: it's going to be right FAR FAR more often then it's going to be wrong.

Chief Rum · 08-10-2007, 10:16 PM

My Day Four vote count:

Hoopsguy (7)-- Gonzo (915), Lathum (916), PurdueBrad (921), path12 (931), Barkeep49 (936), KWhit (982), Jonathan Ezarik (1086)
Gonzo (1)-- hoopsguy (933)

Hoopsguy gets the vote. Writing it up.

Posting about private PMs received from now until the final night action is posted is not allowed. You may freely post about PMs received prior to the deadline.

Barkeep49 · 08-10-2007, 10:16 PM

DT: I'm by no means ready to condemn you yet. I'd like to see how this night plays out, but it's seemed to me that the evidence against you isn't great. Perhaps I'm the one missing something, but it surprises me that there is so much anti-you sentiment out there at the moment.

08-10-2007, 10:06 PM	#1142
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	aah

08-10-2007, 09:11 PM	#1101
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	don't let gonzo lead a charge on me without scanning me. That would be irresponsible. I am a villager. The fact that gonzo refuses to scan me and calls that a "wasted" scan should give you all pause.

08-10-2007, 09:12 PM	#1102
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	clearly this is the play: get hoops lynched and then prey on my play this game to call me "99% a wolf" and get my lynched and you guys are just about at endgame, if not there.

08-10-2007, 09:19 PM	#1107
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	KWhit, I see it but I have the advantage over the rest of the Indians in knowing it is BS. New player - werewolf is a team sport unless we've got them whittled down to one player. I believe Gonzo changed gears with his play when a teammate shared the new plan with him - that would explain why he started voting for one person and then moved in another direction. If you want someone who screams wolf to me, it is KWhit. He has been a follower all game long, not the independent thinker that I'm used to playing with in these games. Gonzo, PurdueBrad, and KWhit - that is what I think you guys are facing the rest of the way. We'll see at the end how close I've been with my guesses this game, I guess.

08-10-2007, 09:23 PM	#1109
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Hoops, you really do play a good game - even when you're cornered.

08-10-2007, 09:23 PM	#1110
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Chief, would really appreciate a ruling on my order-of-actions question posted in the thread ...

08-10-2007, 09:28 PM	#1114
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	if hoops is a villager I think we're screwed and we've lost the game. Otherwise no way the wolves do this.

08-10-2007, 09:30 PM	#1117
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Gonzo, I find it very interesting that you are the only person who thinks that a conversion ability in a game of werewolf is crazy. Of course it is in your best interests to discredit my story, but conversions exist in probably half of our games. The theme of this game is about a wealthy owner trying to get her team to tank games - conversion absolutely fits with the theme of this game. And it is the only explanation I can fathom for your seer claim not being contradicted when the seer is still alive.

08-10-2007, 09:42 PM	#1121
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Hoops, I am playing to win and that is why my vote is on you.

08-10-2007, 09:43 PM	#1122
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Good luck with that. I don't think there is anything more to say.

08-10-2007, 09:51 PM	#1125
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Very helpful Would have obviously liked a clarification that benefitted my position, but didn't hold out too much hope of getting a direct answer.

08-10-2007, 09:52 PM	#1126
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Gonzo, having seen you living in this thread all day with me I will never, ever give you the benefit of the doubt for your schedule or time zone as a a reason for not posting. That has come up a few times with Tanglewood (your brother, correct?).

08-10-2007, 09:55 PM	#1128
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I'm amazed. I really don't think hoops could fake this kind of bitterness.

08-10-2007, 10:01 PM	#1134
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Jobu made me do it.

08-10-2007, 10:01 PM	#1135
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Time's up. Tabulating votes.

08-10-2007, 10:04 PM	#1139
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	wtf was that post hoops?

08-10-2007, 10:05 PM	#1140
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	It's his final way of sowing confusion. We're better off ignoring it.

08-10-2007, 10:06 PM	#1141
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	i'm confused

08-10-2007, 10:15 PM	#1147
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	and you're going to fail to scan me and lead a lynch ru on a villager here next. i'm not going to spend my whole Saturday getting upset and defending myself though. If you all are determined to go that way, go ahead and vote and vote nightfall on it tonight. I'd rather look elsewhere, but I don't think I have any credibility left to get that to happen.

08-10-2007, 10:15 PM	#1148
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Also, I have to admit I'm sorry about something. When everyone was posting how they'd apologize to hoops if they're wrong, I really wanted to go "I won't". There's a reason that the high percentage play is high percentage: it's going to be right FAR FAR more often then it's going to be wrong.

08-10-2007, 10:16 PM	#1149
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	My Day Four vote count: Hoopsguy (7)-- Gonzo (915), Lathum (916), PurdueBrad (921), path12 (931), Barkeep49 (936), KWhit (982), Jonathan Ezarik (1086) Gonzo (1)-- hoopsguy (933) Hoopsguy gets the vote. Writing it up. Posting about private PMs received from now until the final night action is posted is not allowed. You may freely post about PMs received prior to the deadline.

08-10-2007, 10:16 PM	#1150
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	DT: I'm by no means ready to condemn you yet. I'd like to see how this night plays out, but it's seemed to me that the evidence against you isn't great. Perhaps I'm the one missing something, but it surprises me that there is so much anti-you sentiment out there at the moment.

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