Alright boyz, here we go!! Civilization IV first impressions... - Page 23

Butter · 02-27-2007, 09:18 AM

The Great Merchant trade mission is too powerful to pass up. If you hit it right, you can get 2500+ gold just by researching one tech. That's too much of an advantage to leave on the table.

FrogMan · 02-27-2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Thanks for the kind words, Butter. The one thing to emphasize again (esp to Frog) is never, ever let your research go below 80%. In my latest game on Prince, I ran a deficit gold per turn of basically -15 to -35 the whole game but was able to keep up the research by feeding my treasury gold from conquests/razes, selling techs (probably got 3000 that way) and one Great Merchant.

thanks for the advice, well noted. As I said, for now, what's done is done for that game. I'll keep on learning. It's already amazing how much my playing style has grown since the first game I've played. And I keep seeing little things I could have done better and/or would do different in a future game.

From not always having a clue what tech to research at first, to dropping the research like I did, to being afraid to declare war (since I didn't really have a clue if my military would hold up), I'm getting a better hang of it with every turn, and having tons of fun in the process...

FM

Ksyrup · 02-27-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I guess I should ask, Ksyrup... is there anything specific that you feel you struggle with that is holding you back. I can't believe that you just suck... you're not beyond help!

I think my general problem is not paying enough attention to what I'm building in what cities or understanding what I should be building and why and taking advantage of those things to the greatest extent possible. It's not that I completely suck at the game - I am pretty good at warfare and I really enjoy building culture - but at the higher levels, the AI is far more efficient than me and I always seem to fall behind, then I get attacked when I'm not prepared for it.

If I had the time/inclination to study the game more to understand how I could be more effective, I'm sure I'd do better. But frankly, it's a credit to the game that I don't have to do that in order to enjoy it. I'm happy blissfully playing away at a lower level and finding challenges to winning without it seeming too easy and forcing me to play at a higher level, where I would obviously feel overwhelmed and want to quit. The game has a unique playability factor that, at least for me, works perfectly.

FrogMan · 02-27-2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If I had the time/inclination to study the game more to understand how I could be more effective, I'm sure I'd do better. But frankly, it's a credit to the game that I don't have to do that in order to enjoy it. I'm happy blissfully playing away at a lower level and finding challenges to winning without it seeming too easy and forcing me to play at a higher level, where I would obviously feel overwhelmed and want to quit. The game has a unique playability factor that, at least for me, works perfectly.

that is very true. The game can be played either as an endless timesucker in which you can micro manage all of your cities, analyze over and over what is better to produce, pinpointing citizens to optimize production in your cities, or it can be played leisurely, 30 minutes at a time, little by little every evening, going forward in the tech tree, fighting a war here and there and yet have the same kind of challenge and not always feeling like giving up because if you don't eat breathe sleep Civ, you will get crushed. Great game.

FM

FrogMan · 03-05-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan

I am realizing that I've been guilty of that big time, especially now playing my first real game at the noble level. After kicking some major ass at the warlord level, I found myself quickly struggling with my multiple city scheme, so much so that at one point, I had my research level at 20 or 30%.

What's done is done in this game and I'm still hanging in there, 6th in both score and power out of 12 civs on a large shuffle map that turned out to be an archipelago type map. Peter from Russia was stupid enough to declare war on me while he was far, far away with only caravels as main mean of transportation through oceans. I eventually got astronomy and started bringing my troops to his island and kicked his butt a little. I'm way behind in research though and while I just got rifling, I'm afraid that if another civ comes attacking me, I'll be in big trouble. We'll see...

It is a lot of fun though. Kept me awake until almost 1am Sunday night. Wake up call was a bit rough at 5:30...

FM

Well, that archipelago turned out to be a b*tch to work with. Land came out quite arid with high water level so you can imagine that land space was at a premium and wars got to be fought on sea more than anything.

After getting way behind in techs early on, I was able to tech trade my way back in the game by exchanging some more advanced tech for usually two lower ones (to two separate civs). While this was a risky way, it turned out all right. The game ended with a time victory by Alexander. Even though I was able to build the UN, I never was able to get really close to getting the number of votes for a diplomatic victory.

I need to have more faith in the power of my army and will never, ever go to war as a favor to an ally. I got into a late war with Roosevelt (I was Mao Zedong, picked randomly) but was not geared for him, more for Brennus who was showing signs of annoyingness toward me. By geared, I had moved transports and destroyers to him, while the Americans were at the other end of the map. Got there a bit late and it took me a long while to get anything done over them...

I also was a bit stupid in that war against Peter, as I accepted a cease fire after taking over two of his cities, but these cities never were able to get there own culture and ended up being liabilities more than assets. Another lesson learned.

FM

WVUFAN · 03-07-2007, 02:09 PM

I'm running a Pitboss game, Warlords-enabled, on the CivFanatics site. We just started, and this guy posts that he wants a restart because he can't expand, and he posts this screenshot:

My first question is: Why is the living hell would he build a city there? There looks to be an out on the north part of the mountain range, so why would he settle there, with no expansion possibilities in the near future, and in the middle of a desert?

Should I restart the game, given that now he's pretty much screwed, or should I keep it going, knowing that the reason he's screwed is partially his own fault?

Butter · 03-07-2007, 02:12 PM

How could he get out of there?

Even so, if it were a solo game I would restart immediately... but since it's a multi-player, you might have to tread a bit more carefully, as the guy may very well just drop out if you don't restart.

spleen1015 · 03-07-2007, 02:12 PM

I don't see any way he can get out of there.

FrogMan · 03-07-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I don't see any way he can get out of there.

but then, how did he get in there? I'm a bit confused about this. Could the game simply give him that bad starting spot?

I know nothing about pit boss games btw...

FM

spleen1015 · 03-07-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan

but then, how did he get in there? I'm a bit confused about this. Could the game simply give him that bad starting spot?

I know nothing about pit boss games btw...

FM

Yeah, the game gave him that starting spot.

FrogMan · 03-07-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Yeah, the game gave him that starting spot.

if so, then I'd say you need to restart. If there's a way out up North, then screw him...

FM

Butter · 03-07-2007, 02:24 PM

Tell him "I guess you need to research sailing, eh?"

WVUFAN · 03-07-2007, 02:26 PM

Just going by the screenshot, but ...

On the very north part of that mountain range, there looks to be a way around that last mountain.

Granted, he may be on an island with a big ole' mountain in the middle of it, and hense screwed, but my question is why would he settle, TURN 1, without even trying to get out? He settled, then posted "HEY, I'M STUCK!!!" without even looking.

In a past Pitboss game, I thought I was *ahem* safely behind a mountain range, but there was enough room for me to expand. Celeval in the game went around the mountain range and killed one of my scouts, an act I will never forgive him for. My point is I didn't even try and look to see if there was a way, and paid for it.

On the other hand, it's turn 1, and easy for me to restart the game.

FrogMan, Pitboss stands for Persistant Turn-Based Server. It's like PBEM with a guaranteed turn every 24 hours, assuming your internet connect stays stable ... or your power doesn't flicker off, restarting your computer. It comes packaged with Civ4.

... stupid electric company ...

Oh, on a completely different note .. Spleen, take your turn. :-)

MrIllini · 03-07-2007, 02:27 PM

I don't find this game to be very realistic. It would seem that in Civ IV's universe, Captain America is still alive!???? OMGWTFBBQ!?!?

spleen1015 · 03-07-2007, 02:28 PM

I will when i get home.

Butter · 03-07-2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Just going by the screenshot, but ...

On the very north part of that mountain range, there looks to be a way around that last mountain.

How's he going to get around that last mountain? If he gets on that hill, he can't move by using 7, 4, 8, or 1... everything else is water. He has 2 squares to walk in. He probably started on the hill, moved a square, then realized he was screwed and had to build the city. In that case, you can't blame the guy for doing what he did.

WVUFAN · 03-07-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

How's he going to get around that last mountain? If he gets on that hill, he can't move by using 7, 4, 8, or 1... everything else is water. He has 2 squares to walk in. He probably started on the hill, moved a square, then realized he was screwed and had to build the city. In that case, you can't blame the guy for doing what he did.

You're probably right, but I've seen mountain ranges where you can go around it. Go as north as you can, then hit 7, and sometimes you can slip around it.

Again, you're right, it's probably not possible. Even if is was, the area to the left of the mountain range looks like a frozen wasteland. :-)

I'll more than likely restart.

Ben E Lou · 03-07-2007, 03:39 PM

If you don't restart, he's likely to quit, and it would be pretty hard to blame him...

WVUFAN · 03-07-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

If you don't restart, he's likely to quit, and it would be pretty hard to blame him...

Probably true.

WVUFAN · 03-07-2007, 04:40 PM

I'm restarting. I did have a player drop out, though, so if someone wants to give Pitboss a try and has Warlords patched to 2.08, PM me for the spot.

Passacaglia · 03-07-2007, 04:59 PM

doh...did you say Warlords? Never mind!

Celeval · 03-07-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Celeval in the game went around the mountain range and killed one of my scouts, an act I will never forgive him for.

Muahahaha...

dixieflatline · 03-16-2007, 02:58 PM

I won my first game on Diety last night. I don't have the expansion pack just the regular civ 4. Took me probably near 100 tries. I got a very good starting spot and had about 20 other things go right and got to cultural victory at 1882 with two other civs getting very close to the space ship.

twothree · 03-16-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixieflatline

I won my first game on Diety last night. I don't have the expansion pack just the regular civ 4. Took me probably near 100 tries. I got a very good starting spot and had about 20 other things go right and got to cultural victory at 1882 with two other civs getting very close to the space ship.

Congrats.

That is a major accomplishment. I have never achieved a victory on Diety. What type of map, and how many other civs in the game?

dixieflatline · 03-17-2007, 10:12 AM

I must confess that I tried out many different maps to try to limit the AI's advantage of starting out with two settlers. I ended up winning on a continents map that was temperate and high sea level with the standard number of AI's, 7. The high sea level was to reduce the amount of land available to the AI's to slow them down building the space ship as I was planning on only building 3 cities anyway. Continents kept them appart in the early going to try to reduce trade between them. I need to trade food for luxuries early and visa versa late and this let me do that. I was the Russians but I think a couple other civs would also work, perhaps even better.

Has anyone won on Diety with something other than culture? I just don't see how it would be possible. You just can't war with the AI at that level so that is out. You are constantly behind in tech so space race seems out. Diplomatic, I guess, is possible as the AI devalues Mass Media. Still, you would have to get there before the AI builds the space ship, which seems dicey at best, and then you need to get the votes which is never easy in this version. No other victory condition allows you to use your great people so effectively and allows you to be so behind in tech.

Buccaneer · 07-13-2007, 08:57 AM

I started another game of Warlords last week and I still having trouble winning at higher difficulty levels (i.e., Prince). I tried to be even more aggressive than usual and up until mid-game, I have great successes (because I got that part down cold). But as always, somewhere between Knights and Rifles, I lose it. By the time I have killed all but two civs off on the terra continent, I lose my military edge and if I go peaceful, I am so behind that those remaining civs will grow and jump way ahead of me to where I cannot catch up.

I have got to learn to play with more balanace and I believe the Beyond the Sword expansion may give me more options, or at least force me to think of differing strategies.

Honolulu_Blue · 07-13-2007, 09:04 AM

Is the Warlords expansion worth getting?

jbmagic · 07-13-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Is the Warlords expansion worth getting?

I would suggest you wait for the next expansion coming out this month. It will have Warlord included in it.

jbmagic · 07-19-2007, 08:19 PM

New patches for Civ4 & warlords!
http://www.civfanatics.com/

ISiddiqui · 07-19-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

I would suggest you wait for the next expansion coming out this month. It will have Warlord included in it.

BtS does NOT include Warlords, but is compatable.

jbmagic · 07-19-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

BtS does NOT include Warlords, but is compatable.

Incorrect.

BtS includes Warlord. Just no Warlord scenarios. Everything else is there.

So no need to buy Warlord now if you have not yet. Just get Bts Expansion for Civ 4.

jbmagic · 07-19-2007, 08:34 PM

dola

In Regards to Warlords

All epic game content from Warlords will be included in BTS. Scenario content will not be included.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=222075

scroll down before the system requirement.

ISiddiqui · 07-19-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Incorrect.

BtS includes Warlord. Just no Warlord scenarios. Everything else is there.

So no need to buy Warlord now if you have not yet. Just get Bts Expansion for Civ 4.

I believe that BtS does not include the Civs and leaders from Warlords either. All it includes are the core game features from Warlords. Now if you don't care about the Civs, (and probably) wonders, and scens from Warlords, go ahead.

jbmagic · 07-19-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

BtS does NOT include the Civs and leaders from Warlords either. All it includes are the core game features from Warlords. Now if you don't care about the Civs, wonders, and scens from Warlords, go ahead.

yes it does.

Only thing missing is scenarios from Warlord.

ISiddiqui · 07-19-2007, 08:38 PM

That really confuses me if that's the case. No other 2nd Civ expansion included the civs and wonders from previous games, but it did include features. Otherwise, why miss out on another $20 or so from people buying the second expansion for the extra civs and wonders?

Ben E Lou · 07-19-2007, 08:40 PM

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. Blind squirrels still make an awful lot of racket and leave little pellets in your basement, though.

jbmagic · 07-19-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That really confuses me if that's the case. No other 2nd Civ expansion included the civs and wonders from previous games, but it did include features. Otherwise, why miss out on another $20 or so from people buying the second expansion for the extra civs and wonders?

Its true.

I read the forums there. and if you don't care for the Warlord scenarios then it makes no sense in buying Warlord expansion not. Just get BtS will all of Warlord units, wonders, leaders, civs, etc. Coming out very soon.

ISiddiqui · 07-19-2007, 08:48 PM

That is quite possibly the wierdest thing I've ever read... do they just not expect to sell anymore copies of Warlords? Has any company ever done this with multiple expansion packs?

jbmagic · 07-19-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That is quite possibly the wierdest thing I've ever read... do they just not expect to sell anymore copies of Warlords? Has any company ever done this with multiple expansion packs?

They did the same with civ 3

The third expansion Conquest had the 2nd expansion Play the World in it too.

ISiddiqui · 07-19-2007, 08:52 PM

I didn't know that... hmmm... extremely rare practice though.

Passacaglia · 07-19-2007, 09:52 PM

Looking at the feature list of the patch, it doesn't seem worth downloading.

ISiddiqui · 07-23-2007, 06:17 PM

A BtS review from Solver at Poly. Very detailed stuff... enjoy:

http://civilization4.net/3/263/

Buccaneer · 07-23-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

A BtS review from Solver at Poly. Very detailed stuff... enjoy:

http://civilization4.net/3/263/

Always a highlight reading Solver. Thanks for the link, Imran.

BtS is beyond belief as an expansion. Just reading through the first few chapters, I have already thought of new strategies. Maybe with this expansion, I'll finally will be able to get over the mid-game wall at higher difficulty levels.

Buccaneer · 07-23-2007, 07:07 PM

Reading the details about Events made me reach for a couple of kleenex. I had truly missed them since playing Civ2 and a few other 4x games. This one new feature is worth playing BtS for me.

ISiddiqui · 07-23-2007, 07:14 PM

Just thought you'd like to know, Bucc, but I've been tagged to do the 'Civilization: Revolutions' review for Poly. Mostly because I'm the only staff member with a next-gen console

.

twothree · 07-24-2007, 02:07 PM

Picked up my copy of BtS today. Looks really good. Won't get a chance to play until probably, Thursday.

Buccaneer · 07-25-2007, 06:16 PM

I just finished about the details of each of the new features and while I have thought of some new strategies, I still have these nagging questions:

Resources

I still have a problem with resources in that in each of my Civ4 games, they have not been anything to worry about (except wishing I had more of them for happiness or health). My early game strategy has always been to capture two nearest capitals and the resulting land I get seems like always have at least one of everything. I keep reading about going to war for resources and in BtS, about acquiring needed resources through new strategies (like Corportations). How do civers play where any of that is necessary??

Espionage

I read on low levels, we can see what the AI civ(s) is up to. Big whoopeedo. I know generally what their research paths are. Why do I care to know what they are researching at the moment? Same thing with seeing their demographics and city screen. The only value I see if I am to choose a specific building to destroy, but most of the time, I just go military on them anyways. Otherwise, how are civers playing where any of that become useful??

Research Rate

In many reviews, previews and AAR, I read about the specifics and nuances of a particular improvement, building or whatever. In all of my Civ4 games, my research process has been to bee-line with back-fills. I always try to manage a high research (90-100% the whole game) so by the time I see something that a new research can provide, I just wait a little while and I can get something newer and better. I usually end up skipping over 90% of the early stuff because I'll be in Renaissance before anyone else. I think it hit me that I play the game "too fast". By that, I don't mean that I rush my playtime - it still take 20-25 just to get to the mid-game because I'm busing tracking everything every turn. What I mean is that I think EVERYONE is playing on Epic speed while I have been used to the Normal speed. When I get a new tech every 5-8 turns, what does each one matter? I guess if that goes to 10-15 turns on Epic, then would I care about more things? I'll give it a try with BtS. What speed do you prefer and why?

Flasch186 · 07-25-2007, 06:26 PM

BtS = underwhelmed.

I definitely feel like Warlords + some of the mods was a better, more enjoyable game. This feels rushed and incomplete. I hope for a quick couple of patches to address some of the concerns and bugs raised over at Civfanatics. hmph

WVUFAN · 07-25-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Just thought you'd like to know, Bucc, but I've been tagged to do the 'Civilization: Revolutions' review for Poly. Mostly because I'm the only staff member with a next-gen console

.

When is that scheduled to be out?

Calis · 07-25-2007, 07:01 PM

Picked this up as well, but haven't got too much of a chance to get into yet though. From what I have played though I'd agree with most people that the Espionage interface is pretty crappy, and it just feels tacked on compared to the rest of the interface.

To tell you the truth the meat of what interests me in the expansion though is the more subtle changes to the gameplay, like re-doing sea trade routes, blockading, and possibly making forts actually useful.

But I haven't played vanilla Civ4 for a LONG time so there's quite a bit of new for me, I've played nothing but Fall From Heaven lately with it.

02-27-2007, 09:18 AM	#1101
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	The Great Merchant trade mission is too powerful to pass up. If you hit it right, you can get 2500+ gold just by researching one tech. That's too much of an advantage to leave on the table. __________________ My listening habits

03-07-2007, 02:09 PM	#1106
WVUFAN College Starter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Huntington, WV	Should I restart? I'm running a Pitboss game, Warlords-enabled, on the CivFanatics site. We just started, and this guy posts that he wants a restart because he can't expand, and he posts this screenshot: My first question is: Why is the living hell would he build a city there? There looks to be an out on the north part of the mountain range, so why would he settle there, with no expansion possibilities in the near future, and in the middle of a desert? Should I restart the game, given that now he's pretty much screwed, or should I keep it going, knowing that the reason he's screwed is partially his own fault? __________________ Last edited by WVUFAN : 03-07-2007 at 02:10 PM.

03-07-2007, 02:12 PM	#1107
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	How could he get out of there? Even so, if it were a solo game I would restart immediately... but since it's a multi-player, you might have to tread a bit more carefully, as the guy may very well just drop out if you don't restart. __________________ My listening habits

03-07-2007, 02:24 PM	#1112
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	Tell him "I guess you need to research sailing, eh?" __________________ My listening habits

03-07-2007, 02:26 PM	#1113
WVUFAN College Starter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Huntington, WV	Just going by the screenshot, but ... On the very north part of that mountain range, there looks to be a way around that last mountain. Granted, he may be on an island with a big ole' mountain in the middle of it, and hense screwed, but my question is why would he settle, TURN 1, without even trying to get out? He settled, then posted "HEY, I'M STUCK!!!" without even looking. In a past Pitboss game, I thought I was ahem safely behind a mountain range, but there was enough room for me to expand. Celeval in the game went around the mountain range and killed one of my scouts, an act I will never forgive him for. My point is I didn't even try and look to see if there was a way, and paid for it. On the other hand, it's turn 1, and easy for me to restart the game. FrogMan, Pitboss stands for Persistant Turn-Based Server. It's like PBEM with a guaranteed turn every 24 hours, assuming your internet connect stays stable ... or your power doesn't flicker off, restarting your computer. It comes packaged with Civ4. ... stupid electric company ... Oh, on a completely different note .. Spleen, take your turn. :-) __________________

03-07-2007, 02:12 PM	#1108
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	I don't see any way he can get out of there.

03-07-2007, 02:27 PM	#1114
MrIllini High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where you live	I don't find this game to be very realistic. It would seem that in Civ IV's universe, Captain America is still alive!???? OMGWTFBBQ!?!? __________________ if i said you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?

03-07-2007, 02:28 PM	#1115
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	I will when i get home.

03-07-2007, 03:39 PM	#1118
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	If you don't restart, he's likely to quit, and it would be pretty hard to blame him... __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

03-07-2007, 04:40 PM	#1120
WVUFAN College Starter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Huntington, WV	I'm restarting. I did have a player drop out, though, so if someone wants to give Pitboss a try and has Warlords patched to 2.08, PM me for the spot. __________________

03-07-2007, 04:59 PM	#1121
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	doh...did you say Warlords? Never mind!

03-16-2007, 02:58 PM	#1123
dixieflatline High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2003	I won my first game on Diety last night. I don't have the expansion pack just the regular civ 4. Took me probably near 100 tries. I got a very good starting spot and had about 20 other things go right and got to cultural victory at 1882 with two other civs getting very close to the space ship.

03-17-2007, 10:12 AM	#1125
dixieflatline High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2003	I must confess that I tried out many different maps to try to limit the AI's advantage of starting out with two settlers. I ended up winning on a continents map that was temperate and high sea level with the standard number of AI's, 7. The high sea level was to reduce the amount of land available to the AI's to slow them down building the space ship as I was planning on only building 3 cities anyway. Continents kept them appart in the early going to try to reduce trade between them. I need to trade food for luxuries early and visa versa late and this let me do that. I was the Russians but I think a couple other civs would also work, perhaps even better. Has anyone won on Diety with something other than culture? I just don't see how it would be possible. You just can't war with the AI at that level so that is out. You are constantly behind in tech so space race seems out. Diplomatic, I guess, is possible as the AI devalues Mass Media. Still, you would have to get there before the AI builds the space ship, which seems dicey at best, and then you need to get the votes which is never easy in this version. No other victory condition allows you to use your great people so effectively and allows you to be so behind in tech.

07-13-2007, 08:57 AM	#1126
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I started another game of Warlords last week and I still having trouble winning at higher difficulty levels (i.e., Prince). I tried to be even more aggressive than usual and up until mid-game, I have great successes (because I got that part down cold). But as always, somewhere between Knights and Rifles, I lose it. By the time I have killed all but two civs off on the terra continent, I lose my military edge and if I go peaceful, I am so behind that those remaining civs will grow and jump way ahead of me to where I cannot catch up. I have got to learn to play with more balanace and I believe the Beyond the Sword expansion may give me more options, or at least force me to think of differing strategies.

07-13-2007, 09:04 AM	#1127
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	Is the Warlords expansion worth getting? __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

07-19-2007, 08:19 PM	#1129
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	New patches for Civ4 & warlords! http://www.civfanatics.com/

07-19-2007, 08:34 PM	#1132
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	dola In Regards to Warlords All epic game content from Warlords will be included in BTS. Scenario content will not be included. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=222075 scroll down before the system requirement.

07-19-2007, 08:38 PM	#1135
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	That really confuses me if that's the case. No other 2nd Civ expansion included the civs and wonders from previous games, but it did include features. Otherwise, why miss out on another $20 or so from people buying the second expansion for the extra civs and wonders? __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-19-2007, 08:40 PM	#1136
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. Blind squirrels still make an awful lot of racket and leave little pellets in your basement, though. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-19-2007, 08:48 PM	#1138
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	That is quite possibly the wierdest thing I've ever read... do they just not expect to sell anymore copies of Warlords? Has any company ever done this with multiple expansion packs? __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-19-2007, 08:52 PM	#1140
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	I didn't know that... hmmm... extremely rare practice though. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-19-2007, 09:52 PM	#1141
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Looking at the feature list of the patch, it doesn't seem worth downloading.

07-23-2007, 06:17 PM	#1142
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	A BtS review from Solver at Poly. Very detailed stuff... enjoy: http://civilization4.net/3/263/ __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-23-2007, 07:07 PM	#1144
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Reading the details about Events made me reach for a couple of kleenex. I had truly missed them since playing Civ2 and a few other 4x games. This one new feature is worth playing BtS for me.

07-23-2007, 07:14 PM	#1145
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Just thought you'd like to know, Bucc, but I've been tagged to do the 'Civilization: Revolutions' review for Poly. Mostly because I'm the only staff member with a next-gen console . __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams Last edited by ISiddiqui : 07-23-2007 at 07:14 PM.

07-24-2007, 02:07 PM	#1146
twothree College Prospect Join Date: May 2005	Picked up my copy of BtS today. Looks really good. Won't get a chance to play until probably, Thursday.

07-25-2007, 06:16 PM	#1147
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I just finished about the details of each of the new features and while I have thought of some new strategies, I still have these nagging questions: Resources I still have a problem with resources in that in each of my Civ4 games, they have not been anything to worry about (except wishing I had more of them for happiness or health). My early game strategy has always been to capture two nearest capitals and the resulting land I get seems like always have at least one of everything. I keep reading about going to war for resources and in BtS, about acquiring needed resources through new strategies (like Corportations). How do civers play where any of that is necessary?? Espionage I read on low levels, we can see what the AI civ(s) is up to. Big whoopeedo. I know generally what their research paths are. Why do I care to know what they are researching at the moment? Same thing with seeing their demographics and city screen. The only value I see if I am to choose a specific building to destroy, but most of the time, I just go military on them anyways. Otherwise, how are civers playing where any of that become useful?? Research Rate In many reviews, previews and AAR, I read about the specifics and nuances of a particular improvement, building or whatever. In all of my Civ4 games, my research process has been to bee-line with back-fills. I always try to manage a high research (90-100% the whole game) so by the time I see something that a new research can provide, I just wait a little while and I can get something newer and better. I usually end up skipping over 90% of the early stuff because I'll be in Renaissance before anyone else. I think it hit me that I play the game "too fast". By that, I don't mean that I rush my playtime - it still take 20-25 just to get to the mid-game because I'm busing tracking everything every turn. What I mean is that I think EVERYONE is playing on Epic speed while I have been used to the Normal speed. When I get a new tech every 5-8 turns, what does each one matter? I guess if that goes to 10-15 turns on Epic, then would I care about more things? I'll give it a try with BtS. What speed do you prefer and why?

07-25-2007, 06:26 PM	#1148
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	BtS = underwhelmed. I definitely feel like Warlords + some of the mods was a better, more enjoyable game. This feels rushed and incomplete. I hope for a quick couple of patches to address some of the concerns and bugs raised over at Civfanatics. hmph __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

07-25-2007, 07:01 PM	#1150
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	Picked this up as well, but haven't got too much of a chance to get into yet though. From what I have played though I'd agree with most people that the Espionage interface is pretty crappy, and it just feels tacked on compared to the rest of the interface. To tell you the truth the meat of what interests me in the expansion though is the more subtle changes to the gameplay, like re-doing sea trade routes, blockading, and possibly making forts actually useful. But I haven't played vanilla Civ4 for a LONG time so there's quite a bit of new for me, I've played nothing but Fall From Heaven lately with it.

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