2009 NCAA Tournament Thread

[cartman]

Even so, ignoring the transfers, the two Snyder holdovers still contribute over 20 minutes apiece per game and 23.6 points, over 25% of the team's 81.1 points per game average.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Even so, ignoring the transfers, the two Snyder holdovers still contribute over 20 minutes apiece per game and 23.6 points, over 20% of the team's 81.1 points per game average.

Those two guys are easily 4th and 5th in importance to this team (which says how good this team is). Taylor has been invaluable as a PG leader and is the biggest reason for our improvement. Tiller and Carroll are the guts of this team. Tiller can win a game with his defense. Carroll is all-hustle and a glass eater.

Lyons can just disappear in some games, though his good late season runs over the last two years indicate that he gets pretty motivated when the NBA scouts show up. He could be a ridiculous player if he ever put his mind to it. Lawrence is a great floor leader, but he's basically a one trick pony who gets most of his points due to the attention that the starters draw. He didn't even start for much of the Big 12 schedule.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

Even so, ignoring the transfers, the two Snyder holdovers still contribute over 20 minutes apiece per game and 23.6 points, over 25% of the team's 81.1 points per game average.

I think I responded to the original post earlier also. Lawrence was an acedemic walk-on so he can hardly be considered a Quin recruit. His dream (I taught him when he was in middle school) was to play for Missouri. And when he was a freshman it looked like he was a "heart-warming" story of a guy that got to play division I ball. The reason he developed and became a starter is 100% Anderson.

Lyons is definitely one of Quin's recruits. He was part of the Ricky Clemons program of highly talented, questionable character recruiting. I think his name was Leo Criswell when he came to Mizzou and then changed his name to Lyons, not always the best sign. Lyons has also florished under Anderson's system and Melvin Watkins (asst. coach).

So credit goes to Quin for hiring Watkins to help try and right the ship and having the "charm" to get Leo as a recruit but hardly the reason for this season's success.

[MJ4H]

Missouri's success is because of Mike Anderson, no matter how the players got on campus, I can assure you of that. There may be a slight drop-off next year ("may) but if there is, he will have them back in short order. Anderson is the real deal.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Missouri's success is because of Mike Anderson, no matter how the players got on campus, I can assure you of that. There may be a slight drop-off next year ("may) but if there is, he will have them back in short order. Anderson is the real deal.

QFT

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Missouri's success is because of Mike Anderson, no matter how the players got on campus, I can assure you of that. There may be a slight drop-off next year ("may) but if there is, he will have them back in short order. Anderson is the real deal.

Honestly, it's almost impossible not to have a drop off. This is the first time Mizzou has won 30 games in a season. Mizzou has had some great teams, but this and the '93-'94 championship have been wonderful surprises. They should still compete for a NCAA tourney spot, even with the departures.

I noticed that Anthony Grant is taking a second visit to Alabama today. Word is that he has 5 days to accept the contract or they'll look elsewhere for a coach. Mizzou fans are obviously hoping Grant will take the offer, even if the chance of Anderson leaving Mizzou is relatively remote.

[sterlingice]

Well, that and losing your three best scorers to graduation probably means next year won't be as good...

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, that and losing your three best scorers to graduation probably means next year won't be as good...

SI

I'm assuming that comment is heavily loaded with sarcasm after Kansas lost 6 of their top 7 players and still won the regular season championship.

But as you well know from watching Mizzou on several occasions, we have English and Denmon ready to take over on the wing and Safford, Ramsey, and Bowers are very good athletes who should do just fine inside. Those three guys are all better rebounders than Lyons, though their offensive skills need some fine tuning. That's the advantage of this system. The freshman get up to speed a whole lot quicker because they play significant minutes.

[sterlingice]

No, I was being serious. You lose a lot of senior leadership and you're not going to be nearly as good. We aren't nearly as good as we were last year and we're going to be a lot better next year both because of age and experience. All of our upperclassmen that graduated or jumped to the NBA last year are a lot better than the freshmen (and others) who replaced them. And the freshmen (and others) who replaced them will be a lot better next year with another year on their belt.

Now whether they will be as good next year or the year after as the team last year will remain to be seen...

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

No, I was being serious. You lose a lot of senior leadership and you're not going to be nearly as good. We aren't nearly as good as we were last year and we're going to be a lot better next year both because of age and experience. All of our upperclassmen that graduated or jumped to the NBA last year are a lot better than the freshmen (and others) who replaced them. And the freshmen (and others) who replaced them will be a lot better next year with another year on their belt.

Now whether they will be as good next year or the year after as the team last year will remain to be seen...

SI

We'll just agree to disagree. I don't think Kansas will be better next year as Aldridge (sp?) is likely going to leave after this year unless he's just one of those kids that wants to go to school. Given that his family is not that well-off, I expect him to leave and take the mid-first round money while it's there.

Out of Lyons, Carroll, and Lawrence, only Carroll is a huge loss. English has already shown he's every bit as good a shooter as Lawrence with a lot more ability in other aspects. Lyons can be spectacular and mind-numbing all in one game. Safford and Ramsey should provide a lot more consistant rebounding than Lyons.

Carroll is irreplacable. He's just a ridiculously good player.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm assuming that comment is heavily loaded with sarcasm after Kansas lost 6 of their top 7 players and still won the regular season championship.

In case you have not figured it out yet, Missouri is not Kansas, Memphis, or any other elite basketball program.

[Arles]

Just for perspective, Kansas had 6 4-star and 1 5-star recruit come in between 2007 and 2008 (making their run this year a little more plausible). In 2008 and 2009, Missouri has had 0 4 or 5 star recruits. This makes another run in 2009-10 much less likely.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

In case you have not figured it out yet, Missouri is not Kansas, Memphis, or any other elite basketball program.

[LoneStarGirl]

Just heard that Mizzou's DeMarre Carroll sprained his ankle at practice today.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Arles

Just for perspective, Kansas had 6 4-star and 1 5-star recruit come in between 2007 and 2008 (making their run this year a little more plausible). In 2008 and 2009, Missouri has had 0 4 or 5 star recruits. This makes another run in 2009-10 much less likely.

For perspective during the Quin's great 2005 season (12-16 record)

Seniors: one 4 star
Juniors: one 4 star
Sophomores: one 5 star and one 4 star
Freshmen: two 4 stars

Couldn't coach worth a lick.

According to the experts... All of our players on this year's team are 3 star or less. Wonder with Anderson could do with talent? Or maybe our system is build on a different kind of athlete that the star system doesn't appreiciate???

[panerd]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

In case you have not figured it out yet, Missouri is not Kansas, Memphis, or any other elite basketball program.

Didn't realize Memphis had reached "elite" status. Guess those players are torn between Kansas, UNC, Duke, and Memphis. Before you try the national championship game arguement be careful or you are going to have 2002 Indiana, 2004 Georgia Tech, 2005 Illini, and 2006 UCLA as "elite" teams.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Just heard that Mizzou's DeMarre Carroll sprained his ankle at practice today.

...and returned to practice action 5 minutes later.

Dang, three posts in a row defending Mizzou. Am I becoming MBBF #2???

[MJ4H]

To see what will happen with average talent, look at Arkansas around 99-2001.

To see what will happen with superb talent, look at Arkansas 90-95.

Seriously.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

Or maybe our system is build on a different kind of athlete that the star system doesn't appreiciate???

Careful, that starts to sound like Tennessee's situation in a way. In our case it's a system that doesn't seem to work with 4* & 5* players but I'd be nervous about the similarity anyway.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by panerd

Didn't realize Memphis had reached "elite" status.

In this day and age, being the only team to make it to the Sweet 16 each of the past four seasons definitely puts them under consideration.

[molson]

Originally Posted by cartman

In this day and age, being the only team to make it to the Sweet 16 each of the past four seasons definitely puts them under consideration.

I think that qualifies more as a "run"

[cartman]

Originally Posted by molson

I think that qualifies more as a "run"

In the days of players staying all four years, I'd agree.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by panerd

...and returned to practice action 5 minutes later.

Dang, three posts in a row defending Mizzou. Am I becoming MBBF #2???

The Memphis Edge » Blog Archive » Missouri is fast, but. . .

Only played for a few minutes then went back to the bench.

But he said he was 100% at the press conference. So much ado about nothing.

[RedKingGold]

Good news to whoever beats Villanova in the tournament: Whatever team has beaten Nova' after reaching the Sweet Sixteen has gone on to win the National Championship in three out of the past four years (North Carolina in 05', Florida in 06', Kansas in 08').

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by panerd

2004 Georgia Tech as "elite" team.

I agree fully!

[Radii]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Good news to whoever beats Villanova in the tournament: Whatever team has beaten Nova' after reaching the Sweet Sixteen has gone on to win the National Championship in three out of the past four years (North Carolina in 05', Florida in 06', Kansas in 08').

Nova best not be losing to Duke then.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Radii

Nova best not be losing to Duke then.

My bracket would be so happy

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by panerd

Didn't realize Memphis had reached "elite" status. Guess those players are torn between Kansas, UNC, Duke, and Memphis. Before you try the national championship game arguement be careful or you are going to have 2002 Indiana, 2004 Georgia Tech, 2005 Illini, and 2006 UCLA as "elite" teams.

Is your argument that the top recruits choose between Kansas, UNC, and Duke but not Memphis?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Good news to whoever beats Villanova in the tournament: Whatever team has beaten Nova' after reaching the Sweet Sixteen has gone on to win the National Championship in three out of the past four years (North Carolina in 05', Florida in 06', Kansas in 08').

Yeah, I mean, I'm ok if they lose to Pitt and they go on to win, but not Duke

Heck, I'd be all for Villanova winning this year- tho, c'mon, you guys haven't had enough love with the Phillies winning the World Series? (I was going to bring up the Eagles making the NFC Championship but that's never enough for that damn city)

SI

[Radii]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Is your argument that the top recruits choose between Kansas, UNC, and Duke but not Memphis?

I think the argument is that only under the loosest, most inclusive definitions of "elite" does Memphis qualify. More likely, you're confusing "pretty good for 4 years" with "elite"

[panerd]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Is your argument that the top recruits choose between Kansas, UNC, and Duke but not Memphis?

What he said...

Originally Posted by Radii

I think the argument is that only under the loosest, most inclusive definitions of "elite" does Memphis qualify. More likely, you're confusing "pretty good for 4 years" with "elite"

[Balldog]

Heard on the radio that Gillespie is out at Kentucky?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Heard on the radio that Gillespie is out at Kentucky?

There was a rumor going around that he'd be fired after Kentucky's last game. Well, they lost in the NITs tonight to Notre Dame, so if the rumor is true, we'll find out soon enough.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Heck, I'd be all for Villanova winning this year- tho, c'mon, you guys haven't had enough love with the Phillies winning the World Series? (I was going to bring up the Eagles making the NFC Championship but that's never enough for that damn city)

SI

Well, I'm currently a third-year law student at Villanova and live less than one mile away from the heart of campus. So, as awesome and unbelieveable as the Phillies World Championship was, it would be extreme for me personally to have the Wildcats keep advancing.

[Young Drachma]

Who'll replace Gillespie at UK?

CBI semi-finals
-----
UTEP 81, Richmond 69
Stanford at Oregon State – 10 PM ET (HDNet)


CIT Final Four
----------
Pacific (21-11)
@ Bradley (20-14)

James Madison (21-14)
@ Old Dominion (23-10)

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Who'll replace Gillespie at UK?

Travis Ford

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by cartman

There was a rumor going around that he'd be fired after Kentucky's last game. Well, they lost in the NITs tonight to Notre Dame, so if the rumor is true, we'll find out soon enough.

Wasn't he the dude who led Florida to a national championship?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by panerd

Didn't realize Memphis had reached "elite" status. Guess those players are torn between Kansas, UNC, Duke, and Memphis. Before you try the national championship game arguement be careful or you are going to have 2002 Indiana, 2004 Georgia Tech, 2005 Illini, and 2006 UCLA as "elite" teams.

I'm pretty sure that UCLA is an elite program by whatever definition you want to use.

I'm pretty sure that the 2005 Illini were the #1 overall seed in the tourney that year, unlike the other examples you use here to mock title-game losers who made runs from significantly lower seeds.

Let's see Missouri make a Final Four, let alone a title game, before you get into the habit of smearing your betters.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Wasn't he the dude who led Florida to a national championship?

No, Gillespie is the guy that was hired at UTEP, took them to the Big Dance, then bolted for Texas A&M. After turning them around in a couple of seasons, he bolted for Kentucky.

You are thinking of Billy Donovan.

[Balldog]

They said on the radio, Kentucky is targeting Tom Izzo, John Calipari, and Billy Donovan.


Tim Brando was the source.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Balldog

They said on the radio, Kentucky is targeting Tom Izzo, John Calipari, and Billy Donovan.


Tim Brando was the source.

All three of those coaches would be fools if they leave their current jobs and go to Kentucky.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Balldog

They said on the radio, Kentucky is targeting Tom Izzo, John Calipari, and Billy Donovan.


Tim Brando was the source.

Izzo isn't coming (why would he?) and I'm not sure the other two want the hell that comes with the job. Calipari certainly doesn't considering he turned down NC State a couple of years ago and while the job pressure is very high here--regardless of perception about State's place in the pecking order--it's obviously dwarfed by the pressure of winning at Kentucky.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

All three of those coaches would be fools if they leave their current jobs and go to Kentucky.

I'm anything but a Kentucky fan, but I strongly disagree.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

All three of those coaches would be fools if they leave their current jobs and go to Kentucky.

just like Gillespie was.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Balldog

They said on the radio, Kentucky is targeting Tom Izzo, John Calipari, and Billy Donovan.

Donovan is the name that was bouncing around local sports talk here today as well. And I'd say it's close to a 50-50 flip whether he'd do it.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'm anything but a Kentucky fan, but I strongly disagree.

Agreed.

We have had this discussion before, so no surprise with my feelings on the subject. I still believe that there are a handful of schools who, when they call, you take the call and listen regardless of your situation. I think those schools are Kansas, Duke, UNC, Indiana, UCLA, and Kentucky. Now, obviously a guy like Jim Boeheim or Jim Calhoun are probably not going to listen (or be considered), but I think anyone under the age of 55 or 50, who has not been at his current school for more than 10 or 15 years, is almost certainly going to strongly consider an offer from one of those schools.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

All three of those coaches would be fools if they leave their current jobs and go to Kentucky.

I don't know about that. I think Izzo would because he has a good thing going in Michigan State.

But Calipari eventually has to get tired of playing in Conference USA and seeing his team get no national exposure during the regular season.

I think Donovan would actually have the biggest reason to move. Florida is not a basketball school, and while they support the team, it just doesn't hold a candle to football. At Kentucky it's the opposite, and Donovan would have the chance to be the center of attention at a prestiguous basketball school.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

All three of those coaches would be fools if they leave their current jobs and go to Kentucky.

I think, in order to become a successful coach in the NCAA or NBA, you have to have a pretty healthy amount of ego. Most coaches that have reached this level and had any amount of success are not afraid to fail. Unless there are impending sanctions or some other sort of limiting factors (extreme budget cuts or something like that), I cannot imagine anyone being afraid to take on the "challenge" at Kentucky, particularly with all the benefits that come with the job.

I think you can look at the Indiana opening from last season as a good point of reference. Tom Crean left a very secure, high-paying job, where he had proven he could both reach the Final Four AND recruit NBA players. And, Indiana was in much, much worse shape than Kentucky is right now.

[miami_fan]

What would be the difference between now and two years ago? Other than the fact that Donovan has been in the NIT the last two years while Gillespie made the NCAAs last year while being named Co-Coach of the Year in the SEC with the supposedly weak players that Tubby Smith left.

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - Tubby's Gone!!!

[wade moore]

If Donovan goes, that kills Bama's chances of getting VCU's Anthony Grant.