Trump Indictment/Trial thread-2023

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

really the apprentice accusation came from Amorosa a wellknown troll and frequent liar. she wants fame more than he does. She was the one who was dragged out of the white house when he fired her.

I don't know if I have mentioned it here before, but my wife is related to her. And yes, with one notable exception, who see's her as a great and powerful woman of color, they family overall despises her LOL.

[SirFozzie]

Thing is about today's verdict? It teaches MAGA a thing about pronouns, and why people want to be called by their preferred pronouns.

After all, they want Donald Trump to be called He/Him (or President/God), while the rest of the world wants to call him what he "truly is"... that being "Convicted/Felon"

[JPhillips]

It's nuts that so many GOPers are so wedded to Trump that they are throwing away yet another opportunity to be rid of him. This time they could replace him and run away with the election.

But it's a cult, so they all are going to stick with the felon.

[Brian Swartz]

I don't agree. I think they'd lose, badly, if they replaced him now.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It's nuts that so many GOPers are so wedded to Trump that they are throwing away yet another opportunity to be rid of him. This time they could replace him and run away with the election.

But it's a cult, so they all are going to stick with the felon.

If J6 didn't do anything nothing will. People in his administration that still support him were considering the 25th amendment. They felt he was too dangerous to be President then but are ready to vote for him again now.

He's going to get write in votes long after he's dead.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I don't agree. I think they'd lose, badly, if they replaced him now.

I do agree. MAGA isn't voting at this point without him on the ballot, Haley killed any chance at getting most moderates by bending the knee and she'll never pull MAGA, and there isn't a person the right that can pull both MAGA and the anti-Biden left. I'm not sure there's a person on the right that can pull either actually, let alone both.

[CrimsonFox]

GOP has actually been losing many elections for the past 2 years. Especially MAGA. I don't know where polls get their numbers...probably from thin air

[SirFozzie]

It's kinda two sides of the same coin. They win because of Trump and they also lose because of Trump (and because most folks can't pull Trump like attention, they lose when he's not on the ballot)

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

It's kinda two sides of the same coin. They win because of Trump and they also lose because of Trump (and because most folks can't pull Trump like attention, they lose when he's not on the ballot)

Mostly because the current GOP platform is full of unpopular ideas and they've painted themselves into a corner of replying on an uneducated voter base. It's based on decades of creating wedge issues that have become far less popular as society as evolved.

[SirFozzie]

you know, I took this list from elsewhere, but I'm beginning to think that Trump actually meant it when he said that under his administration, they'd drain the swamp. Just look at all the swamp creatures in jail because of his administration:

Donald Trump was charged, convicted, and is awaiting sentencing.

Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.

Trump’s former campaign vice chairman, Rick Gates, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.

Trump’s former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.

Trump’s former adviser and former campaign aide, Roger Stone, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.

Trump’s former adviser and former White House aide Peter Navarro, was charged, convicted, and is currently in prison.

Trump’s former campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.

The Trump Organization’s former CFO, Allen Weisselberg, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison.

Trump’s former White House national security advisor, Michael Flynn, was charged and convicted.

Trump’s former chief strategist, Steve Bannon, was charged with wire fraud and money laundering, in addition to a conviction in a contempt case similar to Navarro’s. He’s currently awaiting sentencing.

Though he was later acquitted at trial, Trump’s former inaugural committee chair, Tom Barrack, was charged with illegally lobbying Trump on behalf of a foreign government. (Elliot Broidy was the vice chair of Trump’s inaugural committee, and he found himself at the center of multiple controversies, and also pled guilty to federal charges related to illegal lobbying.)

Two lawyers associated with Trump’s post-defeat efforts, Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell, have pleaded guilty to election-related crimes.

And did I mention that former president’s business was itself found guilty of tax fraud? Because it was.

This does not include the fact that a jury held Trump liable for sexual abuse in a civil case.

[Thomkal]

Yes, thank God for trump.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

you know, I took this list from elsewhere, but I'm beginning to think that Trump actually meant it when he said that under his administration, they'd drain the swamp. Just look at all the swamp creatures in jail because of his administration:

Make Attorneys Get Attorneys

[thesloppy]

I have seen a lot of collective hand-wringing about whether this verdict actually HELPS Trump, but what was the alternative? Let him get away with as many crimes as he wants, to appease his own voters?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I have seen a lot of collective hand-wringing about whether this verdict actually HELPS Trump, but what was the alternative? Let him get away with as many crimes as he wants, to appease his own voters?

His donation site crashed, he took in something like 38 million, and 30% of it was first time donors.

We are truly fucked.

[JPhillips]

I agree it won't happen, but if 90% of elected GOPers decided they had to go with Youngkin they'd clean up in November. He's like Biden in that he has very few enemies in the party and he could wait to be called before expressing any interest. He'd win by 5 points or more even with Trump complaining.

[albionmoonlight]

I think that if, say, Trump has a heart attack and Youngkin/Haley/etc. runs instead, they win easy.

If the GOP pushes Trump out and he's around to tell his base not to show up, then Biden wins at Reagan over Mondale levels.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

His donation site crashed, he took in something like 38 million, and 30% of it was first time donors.

...according to the serial fraudster just convicted of fraud.

[thesloppy]

Trump would never LIE about money (especially campaign money), other than his notorious history of, and having been convicted of just that.

[thesloppy]

Further, even if Donald Trump DID get $38MM dollars in donations yesterday that would still put him somewhere around $25-50MM behind Biden's cash on hand.

Now, as I've said before in this thread I'm not going to tell anybody that Biden is going to win, or that he is a quality candidate, but can anybody tell me why Donald Trump's donations suggest he is winning, while Biden has collected nearly double those donations?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I think that if, say, Trump has a heart attack and Youngkin/Haley/etc. runs instead, they win easy.

If the GOP pushes Trump out and he's around to tell his base not to show up, then Biden wins at Reagan over Mondale levels.

I think that's what would happen because of the number of GOPers that would be screaming along with Trump, but if the party could unite and just move on I think they could win big. And they'd still get most of the same policy wins they'd get with Trump.

But the most important thing is Trump, so they'll ride or die with him.

[CrimsonFox]

Well, I think it's terrible, just TERRIBLE what they did to that man. They oughtta be ashamed! Don't they believe in God?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I think that if, say, Trump has a heart attack and Youngkin/Haley/etc. runs instead, they win easy.

So if they run a pseudocon (D) in sheep's clothing?

What's the point?

[Flasch186]

On my Facebook wall a lady said that the only thing that can save us is leadership of a strong man.

I’m not sure she understands what she means or maybe she does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I have seen a lot of collective hand-wringing about whether this verdict actually HELPS Trump, but what was the alternative? Let him get away with as many crimes as he wants, to appease his own voters?

Exactly this. If 'winning' is letting him hold the justice system hostage, I don't want to win.

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

GOP has actually been losing many elections for the past 2 years. Especially MAGA. I don't know where polls get their numbers...probably from thin air

Stunning as it may sound, they get them from actual people willing to answer their questions.

The whole 'polls aren't accurate' anymore thing has been way overplayed. They aren't as accurate as they once were. They can definitely be off to a small degree. They're still a heck of a lot more accurate than any armchair pundit or 'I've seen a lot of lawn signs' or similar 'which way is the wind blowing' guesstimating. It's like going from getting an A+ to getting an A, A- on your worst day. you're still really good at it, it's just not completely ironclad.

[CrimsonFox]

As a warning, do not google "Trump rule 34"

[Brian Swartz]

I don't wanna adult.

From my Facebook:

"Jesus was convicted in a sham trial ... and crucified. I still follow him."

Please think about what you're saying people. Obviously posting it here is really little more than venting, but the blindness is real. It scares me to think about how many aspects like this I might be this blind to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Please think about what you're saying people. Obviously posting it here is really little more than venting, but the blindness is real. It scares me to think about how many aspects like this I might be this blind to.

I can assure you -- and please, do NOT infer approval, because that isn't the purpose of my comment -- that the messianic aspect is VERY real in some circles.

That's actually a discussion I had with another Trump voter this week. Basically that we're on board but that it's gotten rather, umm ... well "aghast" might be overdoing it a touch but we're both definitely in the "somewhat bewildered by it" camp.

[Ksyrup]

I'm not bewildered by it. The number of seemingly normal churches getting into the political game is pretty disgusting. It's all wrapped up in the white/Christian movement to take back our country to a time when white people were more in control.This is the logical extension of arguing the "other side" is the anti-christ/evil. Your political savior is now figuratively the second coming.

[CrimsonFox]

There is absolutely nothing Christian about Trump Not one thing. He is not religious in the least bit. I find it disgusting that people that ARE devout church goers worship him.

[albionmoonlight]

I saw creative response on Facebook this morning:

According to math, getting 12 people to agree on 34 things is statistically impossible, so it must’ve been a rigged trial.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I saw creative response on Facebook this morning:

According to math, getting 12 people to agree on 34 things is statistically impossible, so it must’ve been a rigged trial.

This is just how ""information" works now. No such thing as a credible or non-credible source. Every source gets to be amplified based on its subjective truthiness.

It's not brand new. But this trial has just trotted out so many examples.


Online pundit: Omigod, with this judge the corrupt prosecutor gets to have the last word, even after Trump rests his case, they get to go up again and talk? UNFAIR! RIGGED!

Response: GRRRRRRR

Response: PUT BIDEN IN JAIL

Response: BANANA REPUBLIC

Response: (actually knowledgeable person, somewhere in the outrage responses) Right, the party with the burden of proof always does. In all cases like this. All the time. Nothing new here.

Response: I'M A DEM AND I JUST DONATED $300,000 TO TRUMP BECAUSE OF THIS

...and on and on. "This DA ran for office by promising he would prosecute Trump" is the same thing, it fits the narrative so it's now part of the story, despite being objectively untrue. "The gag order is denying Trump's ability to testify," same. "There isn't even a crime here," same.

It's just... I guess predictable, but so disappointing. I just harken back to the very early stages of the actual Trump presidency, when nobody knew what to expect as he stepped into the looking glass of public accountability. It's like the early hubbub over inauguration attendance, which seemed like a sideshow at the time, was actually the real augur of the approach to governance. Facts don't matter if only the "lamestream media" is covering them, we will just lie about the facts, tell people they only should believe what we say, fill them up with "alternative facts" and we are set forever.

I know that anti-Trump forces suffer for being too wordy and too navel-gazing. Talk of "norms" and "democracy" isn't as triggering as "immigrant invasion" and "collapsing economy" and I'm part of the problem here, nobody is going to read this screed above, I won't persuade a single voter for this coming election, I'm confident. I'm useless in this fight, I understand why, and I'm apparently powerless to do anything about it.

Swing voters are pissed off that eggs still cost more than they did before the western world moved into an inflationary phase. So, we'll get this fuckwad again, all but promising to run around and put civil servants in jail and to abolish every decent thing we believe in, including the 2028 election. Holy shit.

[Ksyrup]

The "sorry liberal, you'll have to arrest us all" meme with everyone from Tom Brady to Jesus to Superman to Caitlin Clark to Aslan (maybe?) behind Trump is definitely LOLworthy.

[GrantDawg]

"Swing voters are pissed off that eggs still cost more than they did before the western world moved into an inflationary phase. So, we'll get this fuckwad again, all but promising to run around and put civil servants in jail and to abolish every decent thing we believe in, including the 2028 election. Holy shit."

It is crazy and sad, but this is where we are going. I just am afraid where we are going to be as a country in the next few years.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm not bewildered by it. The number of seemingly normal churches getting into the political game is pretty disgusting. It's all wrapped up in the white/Christian movement to take back our country to a time when white people were more in control.This is the logical extension of arguing the "other side" is the anti-christ/evil. Your political savior is now figuratively the second coming.

Also, what else do a lot of these people have? Probably no sense of self, little other sense of belonging. I wish they'd put their energies into, I dunno, sports fandom or something. Anything else, really.

As far as tactics combating it...I actually like the De Niro approach. Trump has long seemed to only really care about his celebrity; if enough celebrities openly mock him for everyone to see, maybe some people start to become hesitant. (Others will dig in, but fine - you're not going to sway these people anyway.) Mock him, mock his surrogates. Push back at them on the talking head shows.

But De Niro - that got coverage. Cut into all the free press Trump gets with the nightly "outside the courthouse" blather. Don't fight political eggheads with other political eggheads, fight with cultural capital. It may not work and it may not be ideal, but politics is no longer highbrow.

[Atocep]

Trump has built such a distrust for anything media that an "article" from wordpress.xjwoqmy caries more weight than anything sourced or even remotely mainstream.

Taking things even further, they'll watch and trust mainstream media as long as it's reinforcing their biases. As soon as it says something different it's of no use to them.

The the fact that people seem to have forgotten how bad a Trump presidency was and are ready to bring him back is unfathomable, even in this political climate. There are still flaws in our system that haven't been fixed and the only reason they weren't exploited last time was there were a few adults in the room that are guaranteed to be purged out of a 2nd administration.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The the fact that people seem to have forgotten how bad a Trump presidency was and are ready to bring him back is unfathomable, even in this political climate.

You do realize that a VERY sizable number of people figure that was the high point of presidencies in almost 4 decades, and probably around 1/3rd of those consider it the greatest term in office in U.S. history? Go back? You sound like you'd be surprised to discover how many would happily vote him in for a life term, WITH hereditary succession rights included.

Hell, I'm on the short list of supporters who considers his previous term largely smoke without fire, with very little accomplished beyond entertainment value .. and even I figure it was the best term we've seen since Reagan peaked. And I'm disappointed with the guy to the point that I didn't even want him to run again.

There wasn't much "bad" in his term, just not nearly enough "good" to suit me & the more realistic supporters (which, frankly, I ain't sure how many of us there even are ... I'm bordering on heretic for saying that aloud)

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You do realize that a VERY sizable number of people figure that was the high point of presidencies in almost 4 decades, and probably around 1/3rd of those consider it the greatest term in office in U.S. history? Go back? You sound like you'd be surprised to discover how many would happily vote him in for a life term, WITH hereditary succession rights included.

Hell, I'm on the short list of supporters who considers his previous term largely smoke without fire, with very little accomplished beyond entertainment value .. and even I figure it was the best term we've seen since Reagan peaked. And I'm disappointed with the guy to the point that I didn't even want him to run again.

There wasn't much "bad" in his term, just not nearly enough "good" to suit me & the more realistic supporters (which, frankly, I ain't sure how many of us there even are ... I'm bordering on heretic for saying that aloud)

I 100% get that. I'm more looking at the people on the left that complained every day about whatever the Trump policy or drama of the day was that seem to be ready for another Trump presidency because Biden is the same in their eyes.

Or even those on the right Iin his administration that were preparing to 25th him on J6.

There were a lot (very fine) people on both sides that were done with him that are directly or indirectly ready to bring him back.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I 100% get that. I'm more looking at the people on the left that complained every day about whatever the Trump policy or drama of the day was that seem to be ready for another Trump presidency because Biden is the same in their eyes.

Or even those on the right Iin his administration that were preparing to 25th him on J6.

There were a lot (very fine) people on both sides that were done with him that are directly or indirectly ready to bring him back.

Fair enough, I didn't interpret the post I replied to correctly. My bad, thanks for the gracious clarification. (legit, I just misread what you were getting at)

[dubb93]

Atleast Trump didn’t shut the country down.

[dubb93]

I say that jokingly because I hear that all the time in Indiana.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You do realize that a VERY sizable number of people figure that was the high point of presidencies in almost 4 decades, and probably around 1/3rd of those consider it the greatest term in office in U.S. history? Go back? You sound like you'd be surprised to discover how many would happily vote him in for a life term, WITH hereditary succession rights included.

Hell, I'm on the short list of supporters who considers his previous term largely smoke without fire, with very little accomplished beyond entertainment value .. and even I figure it was the best term we've seen since Reagan peaked. And I'm disappointed with the guy to the point that I didn't even want him to run again.

There wasn't much "bad" in his term, just not nearly enough "good" to suit me & the more realistic supporters (which, frankly, I ain't sure how many of us there even are ... I'm bordering on heretic for saying that aloud)

Jon:

Out of everyone on this board, you would be the one with insight into this question:

When Trump finally exits the scene, is there an heir apparent? Is there someone who you think will likely be the leader of the post-Trump Sr. MAGA movement?

Every "MAGA without Trump" person who has tried (DeSantis, Ramaswamy, etc.) has failed. But Trump's still around, so of course they failed. They, IMO, came out too early. But I wonder if there is someone out there that isn't generally thought of yet as the next MAGA leader by the general public, but if you're on the MAGA message boards and you read between the lines, you have a sense that this guy's just patiently waiting to take over when the time is right. Anyone like that?

Or do you just see a massive game of thrones where who the hell knows what happens to the empire when the king dies?

[cuervo72]

Probably more like Succession, where it's decided between Don Jr., Ivanka, Jared, Laura, etc.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Atleast Trump didn’t shut the country down.

So much of Trump's aura depends on forgetting when he was the President.

The BLM riots were the worst thing that ever happened in the USA and Trump would never let something like that happen.

Trump would never let a migrant caravan happen.

Trump would never...

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So much of Trump's aura depends on forgetting when he was the President.

The BLM riots were the worst thing that ever happened in the USA and Trump would never let something like that happen.

Trump would never let a migrant caravan happen.

Trump would never...

Trump would never say Lock Her Up

[Thomkal]

Wisconsin AG has charged three Trump officials for their role in the fake elector scheme in that state:


x.com

[albionmoonlight]

Rebecca Solnit: The Loneliness of Donald Trump ‹ Literary Hub

One way or another this will kill him, though he may drag down millions with him. One way or another, he knows he has stepped off a cliff, pronounced himself king of the air, and is in freefall. Another dungheap awaits his landing; the dung is all his; when he plunges into it he will be, at last, a self-made man.

[CrimsonFox]

that visual...

[Atocep]

Trump's unedited comments about Epstein are exactly what you'd expect from him and of course Fox cut them out because it would have hurt him politically.

[BYU 14]

What were the comments?

[PilotMan]

Unsure about recently but this was from 4 years ago published in WaPo:

“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump told New York Magazine that year for a story headlined “Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery.” “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

Now, Epstein is in jail, charged with sex trafficking by federal prosecutors who allege he abused dozens of female minors in New York and Palm Beach, Fla. He is no longer a friend anyone would want to claim.

And now, Trump doesn’t.