It's here! The NHL 2003-04 playoff thread

[Simms]

Originally Posted by Karim

I really can't comment on the quality of the series because I'm biased but are knowledgeable hockey fans finding the series boring? I heard on PrimeTime Sports Cox, McGowan and Brunt all say the series was virtually unwatchable.

I guess over 3 million Canadians left their TVs on while they mowed the lawn...

McCowan was moaning about the same topic yesterday....frankly, I want some of whatever they're smoking.

Right after the TB/Philly game 7 ended, I remarked to someone that "ESPN's worst nightmare had just come true" but that it was too bad because TB/Calgary was going to be some exciting hockey. So far, I feel like I've dead on. This is easily the most watchable (dare I say, entertaining) series since 2001, and that only qualified because of the Ray Bourque storyline.

Two young, fast, evenly-matched teams, playing a hard-hitting but often wide-open style...what the hell's not to like?

[Cards4ever]

This is a great series, 2 high flying teams, the 1-0 game on Monday was nothing like a 1-0 game, pretty wide open until the end when Tampa played to keep the lead(wisely IMHO).

[Honolulu_Blue]

I just read a transcript of Sutter's press conference. Some funny stuff in there. The conspiracy theory is a load of crap and some of it almost seemed to echo (in a slight way) Gretzky's 2002 Olympic rant after Canada lost to... Sweden? Or some team.

Ville deserved a one game suspension. I saw the hit, it was dirty. It was similar to what he did to Joseph in a way. The intention was pretty clear. Get him out of there.

[klayman]

Grrrrr! One more reason to hate the Avs.

Originally Posted by terry frei

The Avs might be dynastic. They might be locked in a competitive Stanley Cup Finals with the Tampa Bay Lightning. In that case, Calgary fans - who shied away from the Saddledome when the Flames were struggling - would be watching the series on television instead of riding the bandwagon. (Oops, that was a cheap shot. I almost forgot the Canadian Rule: Empty seats for bad teams in U.S. cities mean they're bad hockey markets, but in Canada, box-office inactivity for bad teams means they're smart fans, unwilling to reward bad products.)

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...186012,00.html


A simple check of espn attendance figures shows that Calgary had percentages of 96.9, 91.6, 94.6, 96.6 for home attendance during the last 4 seasons. American teams in similar situations like Washington (83.2, 92.9, 84.6, 78.8), Chicago (73.2, 75.9, 72.2, 64.7), Pittsburgh (94.3, 92.3, 87.0, 70.0), New York Islanders (68.0, 89.3, 91.6, 82.6), Anaheim (78.6, 69.9, 81.5, 87.3), Carolina (71.3, 82.8, 83.7, 64.5) just don't match up.

Now, granted, the Flames haven't sold out the Saddledome like the Avs sell out the Pepsi Center, but then of course the Flames haven't made the playoffs the last 6 years. I wonder what percentage of 'smart american fans who aren't bandwagon jumping' in Colorado would show up if the Avs didn't make the playoffs for that same amount of time. Terry Frei == Idiot.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by klayman

Grrrrr! One more reason to hate the Avs.


http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...186012,00.html


A simple check of espn attendance figures shows that Calgary had percentages of 96.9, 91.6, 94.6, 96.6 for home attendance during the last 4 seasons. American teams in similar situations like Washington (83.2, 92.9, 84.6, 78.8), Chicago (73.2, 75.9, 72.2, 64.7), Pittsburgh (94.3, 92.3, 87.0, 70.0), New York Islanders (68.0, 89.3, 91.6, 82.6), Anaheim (78.6, 69.9, 81.5, 87.3), Carolina (71.3, 82.8, 83.7, 64.5) just don't match up.

Now, granted, the Flames haven't sold out the Saddledome like the Avs sell out the Pepsi Center, but then of course the Flames haven't made the playoffs the last 6 years. I wonder what percentage of 'smart american fans who aren't bandwagon jumping' in Colorado would show up if the Avs didn't make the playoffs for that same amount of time. Terry Frei == Idiot.

Thanks for that, Klay! Not that I needed another reason, but it never hurts to have more ammo. Though, as Denver sports writers go, I tend not to mind Frei as much. It's the columnists, Kiszla and Paige, that annoy to no end.

[Honolulu_Blue]

It's interesting to see how this series has sort of drudged up all of this US v. Canada nonsense. (Cards, you must be going nuts!) I have never given it much though, growing up in Detroit and all. I guess living so close to Canada, getting the CBC feed, you sort of feel like you have the Canadian hockey experience more or less. It should be very interesting to see if this boils over into the Canada Cup this year. Last time around, in 1996, the US/Canada rivalry was amazing. US was enemy #1 in Canada. The pre-finals games were violent, fight-filled affairs.

Another thing I was thinking about. The Big Market team. Isn't it pretty clear that this strategy doesn't work? I am not just talking about the Rangers not making the play-offs, since forever, but just looking at Stanley Cups how many "bought" big-market teams have really won it? I would say one (the 2002 Detroit Red Wings), though I guess you could make arguments for the 1999 Stars and 2001 Avs (the Avs being the easier case).

It's hard to say (just off the top of my head) when the big market, free agent spending craze began. I know it was the Rangers who really started it, the year they brought in all those Colorado guys: Lefevbre, Kamnesky, and some others. That could have been 1997. The 97-98 Wings don't really qualify. That team was built through the draft and through trades. The over-all salary may have been in the top 5 or so in the league, but that team was built through good drafting and trading, not the $. The 1999 Stars had Hull and Belfour, I know, but again, I get the feeling that the core of that team was built through the draft and such. The 2000 Devils weren't a big market team. The 2001 Avs were to an extent. Though the Avs were never big time players in the free agent market, they were always able to make trades at or near the deadline and could carry the fat contracts. Not a classic "hired gun" team, but somewhat close. The 2002 Wings certainly were. Hasek, Hull, Robitaille all free agents (more or less). The Wings still had a core group built from the draft, but had used their big wallet to retain these guys. I never felt the Wings over-spent on any of the players they brought in. They never gave Turgeon/Holik/Weight like contracts, but they had money and spent it. It was a collection of superstars and hall of famers. The 2003 Devils and the runners-up, Ducks, certainly don't qualify. And clearly neither Tampa or Clagary does either.

The conclusion being is that the collection of superstars approach to hockey, though likely to guarantee some level of success (unless you're the Rangers), does not really increase your chances of winning a Cup. Too many variables in hockey other than skill and talent.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The conclusion being is that the collection of superstars approach to hockey, though likely to guarantee some level of success (unless you're the Rangers), does not really increase your chances of winning a Cup. Too many variables in hockey other than skill and talent.

I agree and I'm glad it has turned out that way. Call it hockey karma (and remember it when the Wings trade for some high priced player next season)

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It's interesting to see how this series has sort of drudged up all of this US v. Canada nonsense. (Cards, you must be going nuts!) I have never given it much though, growing up in Detroit and all. I guess living so close to Canada, getting the CBC feed, you sort of feel like you have the Canadian hockey experience more or less. It should be very interesting to see if this boils over into the Canada Cup this year. Last time around, in 1996, the US/Canada rivalry was amazing. US was enemy #1 in Canada. The pre-finals games were violent, fight-filled affairs.

I'm not going nuts, I'm cheering for Calgary!

To tell you the truth, this board was the first place I've encountered the whole US v. Canada thing. When the US isn't playing and Canada is, I've always cheered for Canada and in pro hockey, I cheer for the team with the players I like the most. I always thought of Canada and the US as brothers in arms, guess I was a bit caught off guard when I saw that the Canadians didn't feel the same way.

[Maple Leafs]

A couple of points on the Nieminen suspension (which I don't think was unreasonable, by the way).

- Did anyone thing it was odd that the NHL factored in that there were only five minutes left in the game when they announced the suspension? The logic, apparently, is that being tossed out of a game with five minutes left is not as bad as being tossed in the first period. I can certainly understand if you're talking about the dying seconds of a blowout, but I think this is the first time I've ever heard that line of reasoning used when talking about the third period of a close game. It will be interesting to see if the precedent sticks.

- I also had to wonder about Campbell's comment that Lecavlier had only "briefly" touched the puck. Is this a new rule? Now guys get special protection if they had the puck, but only "briefly"? How many times do you see a guy get lit up on a hit after he pokes the puck ahead (Sami Kappenen, anyone)? Are they going to suspend guys for that now?

Like I said, I didn't mind the suspension. I just wish the NHL didn't insist on playing games with their reasoning.

[Cards4ever]

Whether he had the puck or not, Nieminen took his head and slammed into the glass and that's a penalty, no?

Why they choose to explain why they are suspending someone is beyond me, a simple, "hey, he took his head and whipped it into the glass and he's suspended a game" does it for me.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Whether he had the puck or not, Nieminen took his head and slammed into the glass and that's a penalty, no?

Right. So why try to dress it up? They're only giving the Flames conspiracy theorists more ammo.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Right. So why try to dress it up? They're only giving the Flames conspiracy theorists more ammo.

The NHL works in mysterious ways ML!

Don't you think Sutter is just trying to use it a pyschological weapon on his players too? You know, everyone is against us kind of thing. I say the Flames win tonight and win on Saturday.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Right. So why try to dress it up? They're only giving the Flames conspiracy theorists more ammo.

I think they were trying to justify giving Niemenen a suspension but not Stillman. I never saw the Stillman hit, but apparently he gave someone a decent elbow.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Don't you think Sutter is just trying to use it a pyschological weapon on his players too? You know, everyone is against us kind of thing.

It's exactly what Gretzky did in the Olympics... And look how that turned out.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Don't you think Sutter is just trying to use it a pyschological weapon on his players too?

yeah, no question.

I'm surprised the Flames haven't seized more on the 'fake injury' angle, especially after Lecavlier (who's condition had been unknown until the suspension was announced) later said he'd felt fine since a half hour after the game.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

yeah, no question.

I'm surprised the Flames haven't seized more on the 'fake injury' angle, especially after Lecavlier (who's condition had been unknown until the suspension was announced) later said he'd felt fine since a half hour after the game.

After he got hit, didn't it kind of look like he had the deer in the headlights look? I also thought I heard he took a shift after the hit, though I didn't recall seeing him out there.

When I think about it, the whole thing is/was stupid. Nieminen doing something like that at that point of the game, the Flames upset about a hit of that magnitude and the NHL playing games with the situation.

One more note, is Fedetenko playing tonight?

[sachmo71]

Looking at the ratings for this series, I'm very scared for hockey. It's the finals, and they are drawing a 1 share.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Looking at the ratings for this series, I'm very scared for hockey. It's the finals, and they are drawing a 1 share.

Yeah, but we all knew the ratings would be terrible for this series. That's no surprise at all. I am sure there are plenty of folks watching in Canada, but outside of Tampa (and probably not all that many people here) and pockets of hockey lovers, there is no real national interest in the series. Tampa isn't a huge market and it's not a hockey city. Philly making it would have been better for ratings. Oh well...

[Cards4ever]

It's really a shame too, the NHL playoffs have been so much better than the NBA playoffs this year.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

It's really a shame too, the NHL playoffs have been so much better than the NBA playoffs this year.

Aren't they always?

[bbor]

I don't think Ville deserved a suspension...of course i don't think he desereved a 5 minute major either.It was one of those turn your back at the last second hits.I pretty sure the 5 minutes and suspension were due to the fact that it was Ville.The same thing would have happened if it was Domi or Brashear...but if it had been Lecavalier hitting Neminen,i think it would have been 2 minutes minor if anything at all.

Just my 2 cents.

[bbor]

Dola...they just announced that 12 Leaf games will be on pay tv ONLY.

I guess Maple Leaf sports and entertainment was a little shy of coin this season since they announced that there will be no ticket increase this season(if there is one)

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by bbor

Dola...they just announced that 12 Leaf games will be on pay tv ONLY.

PPV, or Leafs TV?

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

PPV, or Leafs TV?

Leaf Tv....they did'nt say which games though...prolly just the unimportant ones.....Montreal....Ottawa....Detroit..

[klayman]

Originally Posted by bbor

Leaf Tv....they did'nt say which games though...prolly just the unimportant ones.....Montreal....Ottawa....Detroit..

They should put all the Leaf games on pay-per-view. Then the rest of us could actually watch some hockey on Saturday nights

/leaf hater

[bbor]

Originally Posted by klayman

They should put all the Leaf games on pay-per-view. Then the rest of us could actually watch some hockey on Saturday nights

/leaf hater

LMAO

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by klayman

Aren't they always?

The guys in the NBA thread would probably disagree with us!

bbor, to me, it looked like he took LeCavalier's head and drove it into the glass, like a wrestler would take someones head and drive it into a turnbuckle. If he had just hit him with body to body, I would agree with you.

[Simms]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

bbor, to me, it looked like he took LeCavalier's head and drove it into the glass, like a wrestler would take someones head and drive it into a turnbuckle. If he had just hit him with body to body, I would agree with you.

Granted, it's been 24 or 36 hours since I've seen a replay of it, but I'm fairly certain it was strictly body to body....Vinny just led with his head. I'm not sure Ville ever actually put a hand on him at all.

Just fwiw. (ie, I'm not arguing the suspension's merit )

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Simms

Granted, it's been 24 or 36 hours since I've seen a replay of it, but I'm fairly certain it was strictly body to body....Vinny just led with his head. I'm not sure Ville ever actually put a hand on him at all.

My view of it was that he used a forearm to the back of the head. It wasn't quite as dramatic as Cards makes it out to be, but it was a headshot.

That said, if Vinny wears his helmet properly instead of letting his chinstrap hang down, he doesn't get cut and probably doesn't get hurt at all. I thought the NHL was going to pass a rule on that?

[Karim]

Can't the NHL standardize to a certain extent to clean up the game?

High-stick to the face .... automatic 1 game suspension
Head shot ... automatic 5 game suspension
Abuse of an official ... automatic 10 game suspension

etc., etc... Each case would obviously be looked at separately to determine if more time would need to be added on but you'd know what was coming immediately and I think players might keep this in mind.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

My view of it was that he used a forearm to the back of the head. It wasn't quite as dramatic as Cards makes it out to be, but it was a headshot.

That said, if Vinny wears his helmet properly instead of letting his chinstrap hang down, he doesn't get cut and probably doesn't get hurt at all. I thought the NHL was going to pass a rule on that?

Over-emphasis on my part, but like you, I saw him drive the head instead of just going body to body. Obviously from what some of us saw or didn't see, it wasn't as clear cut as I thought. Just glad he's ok, I've seen guys carried off the ice from shots from behind, and I do not care for it.

Now, onto the game! Who does everyone think is going to win tonight?

[Vince]

Because I've been pretty busy lately, and my team isn't involved, I haven't gone out of my way to watch the Finals. How are the teams looking? I saw the hit on SportsCenter, and it was pretty bad...but not horrible. Is Lecavalier going to play tonight?

[bbor]

Go Calgary!!

Or my wife will be pissed all weekend...she's going there on Sunday...so she wants there to be a game 7 so she can party on 17th.Perhaps she will show up on Flamesgirls.com

I may go to Calgary if they win the cup...i wanna be involved in a Stanley cup parade in my lifetime and i don't think it's gonna happen here in Toronto(enter ML with a Kerry Fraser comment here )

[Cards4ever]

LeCavalier skated yesterday, so, he should play. So did Fedentko(answering my earlier question).

I think you better get to Calgary on Saturday night, they are going to win this in 6!

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by bbor

(enter ML with a Kerry Fraser comment here )

(Looks up from Kerry Fraser bobble-head with cigarette burns on its groin)

What?

[bbor]

ML and his Fraser-isms gave me a question that i have a hard time answering myself.

Who is the best official in the NHL.....In game 7 who would you feel most comfortable with?

[Cards4ever]

I would like the ref from the Movie Slapshot!

On a more serious note, I think all refs have their plusses and minuses and good teams overcome a bad or missed call.

[Karim]

If I had to choose.... McCreary.

I always liked Paul Stewart though, when he was still in the league...

[klayman]

Originally Posted by bbor

I may go to Calgary if they win the cup...i wanna be involved in a Stanley cup parade in my lifetime and i don't think it's gonna happen here in Toronto(enter ML with a Kerry Fraser comment here )

lol

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

The guys in the NBA thread would probably disagree with us!

There's an NBA thread?!? It certainly isn't as popular as this thread, which should tell you every thing you need to know.

[Dr. Sak]

Could Gary Thorne be any more Pro-Tampa Bay. Each time they score he gets so excited i think he pisses his pants!

[klayman]

About time Iggy!!!!

Btw, what is with the idiots banging on the glass? It is not exclusive to tampa bay either, I've seen it quite a bit during these playoffs. Maybe I'm just getting old.

[klayman]

Sweet!!!!

[Johnny93g]

yES!!!!

[Cards4ever]

Gotta Love that! GO FLAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Maple Leafs]

Woot!

[Cards4ever]

Boy, it looked like the Flames were out of gas too, but they got the winner and that's all that counts. It seems to me that the Flames have won most of the races to the loose pucks in this series and I think that's been the difference.

[Karim]

Most nervous I've ever been for a game...

I can hear partying outside and I'm quite far away from any commercial areas... First time it's been noticeable away from the Red Mile... It's great but there's one more win required...

[Karim]

Yay, Flames!

[bbor]

Awesome!