Invasion of Ukraine

[Mota]

Is it really a masterclass though? Nobody is buying it. Maybe some hardcore Russian supporters who are willing to overlook reality to make themselves feel better.

[sterlingice]

Tucker Carlson and his ilk seem to be peddling it, too. So maybe you'll be hearing it from your parents and/or grandparents soon, if not already

SI

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

GOP plan to cut Social Security, Medicare in 2023 comes into view

They've already said they'll also be using the debt ceiling negotiation to withhold Ukraine funding but also cut Medicare and Social Security.

SI

Don't worry though. Now that all the boomers have SS they won't dare modify it for them. It'll be for those good for nothing Xers and Millennials. Just like pretty much every piece of legislation of the past 40-50 years has been for the benefit of the Boomers.

[flere-imsaho]

Sir, this is a Wendy's the Invasion of Ukraine thread.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Mota

Is it really a masterclass though? Nobody is buying it. Maybe some hardcore Russian supporters who are willing to overlook reality to make themselves feel better.

I should have said masterclass in gaslighting for domestic consumption.

Saw this earlier today. I don't what the show is (e.g. something out of someone's garage?) and I don't play ARMA. But if true, pretty funny.

Any ARMA players here and can they confirm?

Russia released footage, destroying a ukrainian Convoy. Only was it made in Arma 3. You cant make this shit up : ukraine

Russia released footage, destroying a ukrainian Convoy. Only was it made in Arma 3. You cant make this shit up

[Edward64]

Targeting dams have been in the news lately. The accusation of Russia planning to blow up dams have been countered with Ukraine planning to do it. So if it happens, there'll be finger pointing.

Ideally, there would be a contingent of UN personnel protecting the dam and declaring it hands off from the combatants, but that obviously won't happen.

Critical dam mined: Zelensky also claimed that Russia was creating grounds for a large-scale catastrophe in the south of Ukraine, with Russian forces mining a critical dam on the Dnipro river in the southern Kherson region, as well as the adjacent hydroelectric plant.

“We have information that Russian terrorists have mined the dam and units of the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant,” Zelensky told the Council of Europe during a video address.

“The dam of this hydroelectric power plant holds about 18 million cubic meters of water.

“If Russian terrorists blow up this dam, more than 80 settlements, including Kherson, will be in the zone of rapid flooding. Hundreds of thousands of people may suffer. Water supply to a large part of southern Ukraine could be destroyed. This Russian terrorist attack could leave Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant without water for cooling - water for ZNPP is taken from the Kakhovka reservoir. “

On a tangential note, I got curious about a post that said Taiwan was within striking range of China's Three Gorges Dam, implying this was a counter measure if China was to invade.

Reading more into it, the Three Gorges is a "gravity" dam. Meaning there is alot of concrete (as in, really, a lot) and anything short of a tactical nuke (or multiple MOABs) won't take it out. Interesting tidbit on dams and wonder if true.

[Edward64]

Below is a subtitled video clip of a Russian talk show. They discuss & show clips of how effective the Iranian drones are and mentioned how Iran is getting more orders because their drones have proven effective. Then 3/4 in they pivot and say the writings on the drones are Russian and therefore are Russian.

Propagandists on Russian state TV admit then deny that Russia is using Iranian drones in Ukraine

Propagandists on Russian state TV admit then deny that Russia is using Iranian drones in Ukraine - YouTube

I don't know what the big deal is. If I was Putin, I would say "we are building a coalition against the evil West and Iran is our friend". Just open it up and don't hide the fact they are getting weapons from other friendly countries. And yeah, I'd ask my allies for boots on the ground, even if it's a token amount.

[Edward64]

Not much publicly being disclosed on the Kherson front. There's posts about how Russians are evacuating the right (west) side of the Dnieper. Russia warning of Ukraine using a dirty bomb. Another Russian fighter jet crashing into a residential area.

Also, interesting post this morning about a gas station not accepting Rubles. The owner better hopes Ukraine does retake and hold Kherson.

https://twitter.com/KramarenkoMari3/...QrRakORYwodFcg

In #Kherson, people refuse to accept rubles en masse and demand hryvnias.
Residents and shops refuse to accept Russian rubles and ask to pay only in hryvnias. Even gas stations ask for hryvnias. #KhersonIsUkraine 1/2

@vidtranslator
He wants to pay in Rubles. She says sorry, we only accept Hrivnya. He asks why? She doesn't know, but she's been told so. She offers to call the supervisor. Customer gets aggressive (Ru citizen I guess) and demands the supervisor's full name on the phone.

[GrantDawg]

Russian Defense Secretary calling countries warning that Ukraine is about to set off a dirty bomb. Russia is definitely laying the ground work for using WMD's.

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[Edward64]

Kinda glad that tactical nukes aren't talked about anymore.

Dirty bombs are next. Tactical nukes is >>>> dirty bombs so, relatively speaking, not near as bad overall.

The text of the following statement was released by the Governments of the United States of America, France, and the United Kingdom.

We, the Foreign Ministers of France, the United Kingdom, and the United States, reiterate our steadfast support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity in the face of Russia’s ongoing aggression. We remain committed to continue supporting Ukraine’s efforts to defend its territory for as long as it takes.

Earlier today, the defense ministers of each of our countries spoke to Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoygu at his request. Our countries made clear that we all reject Russia’s transparently false allegations that Ukraine is preparing to use a dirty bomb on its own territory. The world would see through any attempt to use this allegation as a pretext for escalation. We further reject any pretext for escalation by Russia.

The Foreign Ministers also discussed their shared determination to continue supporting Ukraine and the Ukrainian people with security, economic, and humanitarian assistance in the face of President Putin’s brutal war of aggression.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

McCarthy is an extremist, if McCaul can be believed, more oversight & accountability, is reasonable IMO. We're starting to talk about real money now.

I am a supporter of Ukraine but I don't think below (and the trend towards more accountability) is unreasonable. I do still think the (admittedly, wide range of) $17B - $63B is still a pretty good deal considering how frakked Russia is.

Liberal Democrats call on Biden to shift Ukraine strategy | CNN Politics

More than two dozen liberal House members are calling on President Joe Biden to shift course in his Ukraine strategy and pursue direct diplomacy with Russia to bring the months-long conflict to an end.

In a letter sent to Biden on Monday, the group of 30 Democrats praise Biden’s efforts to date at supporting Ukraine while avoiding direct US involvement on the ground. But they suggest a more forceful attempt at bringing the war to an end through diplomacy is necessary to prevent a long and slogging conflict.

[SirFozzie]

Russia Spokesmen: "We should drown every Ukrainian"
Liberal Democrats: "Can't we just talk this out?"

Pretty much actual statement on Russian TV.

Sorry, I normally sympathize with AOC et all, but this time, they are flat out WRONG. Step one is Russia gets the fuck out of Ukranian territory (the pre-2014 territory), and THEN we talk.

Ukraine urges global ban of Russia's RT over presenter's call to drown children | Reuters

(contrary to the reaction post saying, this was a taped show. If they didn't agree with it, they would have edited it out)

[Edward64]

From what I've read on https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews, that guy was fired.

Kremlin media platform RT has fired Anton Krasovsky after his comments about mass murdering Ukrainian children went viral. Krasovsky has been delivering such genocidal rants for months - this one merely gained greater international attention thanks to the work of @JuliaDavisNews

I have to believe that guy was an outlier extremist. I've watched other clips that she's posted on Russian talk shows. Lots of BS stuff but nothing that extreme. He should be "taken out" by the same group that took out that guy's daughter.

[SirFozzie]

If he's been doing it for months, it's not because his view is repugnant, it's because NOW he's getting Russia Blowback.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I am a supporter of Ukraine but I don't think below (and the trend towards more accountability) is unreasonable. I do still think the (admittedly, wide range of) $17B - $63B is still a pretty good deal considering how frakked Russia is.

Liberal Democrats call on Biden to shift Ukraine strategy | CNN Politics

Don't worry, McCarthy and the GOP have already telegraphed their plans, as above. They're not going to stop helping Ukraine. And there won't be any increased accountability - they've never done it before so why should we expect it start now. Those are just laughably transparent talking points to get the gullible or willfully ignorant to carry water for them

They're just going to try and make the Dems sign off on cuts to Social Security and Medicare in exchange for helping Ukraine. "Oh, you want to help Ukraine and go back against the weakening of NATO that our Orange Godchild was doing to line his own pockets? Then you'd better kick granny and gramps off of Social Security and take a political hit for it, even though these things aren't totally related. Otherwise, we're going to let the US default on its debt, drive the economy off a cliff, and blame it all on Sleepy Joe in time for him to get crushed in the 2024 election."

There's no universe where they actually care about the foreign aid going to Ukraine, except for the increasing number of them like Rob Johnson and Kevin McCarthy bought by Russian money.

Considering the completely contrasting results between the much larger Russian forces vs the smaller Ukranian ones, I think it's pretty safe to assume that the gross differences in supply line (and intelligence) effectiveness are significantly responsible. If you suddenly change that balance, I'm sure there will be a bunch of Pikachu shocked face and finger pointing six months down the road when Ukraine starts getting ground under again when it's really clear how that happened. Unsurprisingly, when we stop handing them weapons that are vastly superior to what they are fighting against, the manpower advantage suddenly matters a lot more.

Then again, that's why the Russian misinformation machine is going into overdrive trying to keep their red wave intact. Cheaper to buy US politicians and our electorate than actually buy bombs, especially when half the world won't take your currency right now because of said war.

SI

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I have to believe that guy was an outlier extremist. I've watched other clips that she's posted on Russian talk shows. Lots of BS stuff but nothing that extreme. He should be "taken out" by the same group that took out that guy's daughter.

ehh....pretty naïve.

It isn't like we haven't seen this before in history. Just because others aren't saying the quiet part out loud, yet, doesn't mean they aren't thinking it or support it.

signed 6 million dead Jews...

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

If he's been doing it for months, it's not because his view is repugnant, it's because NOW he's getting Russia Blowback.

I didn't mean to say he had been doing it for months (I don't know).

I do know that I've watched this channel Russian Media Monitor - YouTube which subtitles and reports on Russian talk shows. The guests are way out there (from the western perspective) but the guy in question is an outlier even to those guests.

[Edward64]

Never heard of these drones before.

Wouldn't be surprised if they are developing a version that can shoot a bullet or two. Drones are definitely changing the future of warfare.

Ukrainian Army to Receive "Black Hornet" Military Micro-Drones - The Debrief

The Norwegian Government Security and Service Organization (GSSO) has announced that Norway and Great Britain will jointly supply Ukraine with an unspecified number of “Black Hornet” military micro-drones, described as a “spy plane that fits in your hand,” to aid in its on-going war with Russia.

Manufactured by Prox Dynamics of Norway, which was acquired by FLIR Systems in 2016, the Black Hornet measures around 4 x 1 inch from tip to tail, with a 4-inch rotor span, and only weighs 16 grams, making it the smallest operational military micro-drone in the world.

19 NATO-allied countries, including the United States, United Kingdom, France, Germany, Australia, and Turkey, presently operate the Black Hornet. Reportedly, the micro-drone has already proved itself in combat, being used for covert surveillance by U.K. and U.S. special operations teams in Afghanistan.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I am a supporter of Ukraine but I don't think below (and the trend towards more accountability) is unreasonable. I do still think the (admittedly, wide range of) $17B - $63B is still a pretty good deal considering how frakked Russia is.

Liberal Democrats call on Biden to shift Ukraine strategy | CNN Politics

Fuhgeddaboudit. Jayapal made a boo boo.

"The Congressional Progressive Caucus hereby withdraws its recent letter to the White House regarding Ukraine," said Rep. Pramila Jayapal, chair of the caucus, in a statement Tuesday.

[Edward64]

Someone had posted near the start, there wasn't that much combat footage. There's a ton of them now.

This one is pretty much one-on-one. If I was the guy outside, I would have waited for help. If I was the guy inside, I would have yelled out to surrender.

A Ukrainian hero clearing trenches, has an intense fight with a russian. : UkraineWarVideoReport

[Edward64]

The Russian narrative seems to be shifting towards war against Satanists.

I get the war against "Fascism", I can believe regular Russians believe/can go for that. I can believe many believe Russian "motherland needs to be defended" against NATO encroachment.

I just can't believe regular Russians will believe it's a war against Satanism.

I don't have a good sense of how much of this is being spread domestically, but it is popping up in some Russian news talk shows Russian Media Monitor - YouTube

[Edward64]

Supposedly a drone attack against Russian ships in Sevastopol, Crimea. There was an attack but conflicting results.

Supposedly Russian ships shot down the drones, other say ship(s) were damaged. One said submersible drone(s) were used. Pics of smoke but can't really see anything definite.

It's good that Ukraine is taking the fight to Crimea now. Make it more real. More news to come.

[Coffee Warlord]

There's a rumor going around that the recently dismissed General Lapin was found dead in the Moskva River.

[Edward64]

Hmmm. Unconfirmed reports he was just dimissed today (article below dated today).

https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/10/29...ter-in-ukraine

Colonel General Alexander Lapin has been removed from his post as commander of the Army Group “Center,” according to sources of the Moscow Times and the RBK media group.

The Chechen state broadcasting company Grozny also reported Lapin’s resignation without citing sources. The “patriotic” Telegram channel Grey Zone wrote about “reports” that Lapin was removed from his post.

There is no official confirmation of this information.

EDIT: Rybar (pro-Russian mil-blogger, toes the party line but generally in the know). Nothing on the death though

Rybar in English
@rybar_en
·
6h
Col Gen Lapin could not withstand the barrage of criticism. This prompted him to make his decision. We repeat: Lapin submitted his resignation himself, unhappy with the story swirled around him.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

There's a rumor going around that the recently dismissed General Lapin was found dead in the Moskva River.

FWIW, Newsweek concluded it's false.

Fact Check: Was 'Fired' Russian General's Body Found in Moscow River?

The claim that Lapin's body was "retrieved from the Moskva River" is baseless. There is no evidence supporting the report of his death, as of Monday.

The primary source of the claim appears to be the Sergej Talk, a pro-Ukraine Twitter account of a Latvia-based professor who has been known to tweet unverified information.
:
Regardless, the claim appears to be entirely unfounded, and the reports based on it were later retracted by both Channel 24 and The Sun.

While it remains to be seen whether the report about Lapin's removal from Russia's military leadership is confirmed by the Kremlin, the rumors of his demise are not rooted in fact.

[Edward64]

I'm glad that Russia has agreed to continue the deal but I don't really know what Russia gets out of this. I don't really see Russia getting any PR benefits considering the voluminous bad PR will outweigh any incremental bad PR from not continuing with the deal.

Just say ... you want to feed the world, go truck it to a NATO or EU port. I'll promise that I won't bomb any grain convoys travelling towards Poland or Moldova.

Putin much have a reason(s) but just doesn't seem to be in their strategic interest to make it easier for Ukraine.

Russia changes course, rejoins Ukraine grain export deal | CNN

Russia said Wednesday it was rejoining the agreement that guarantees safe passage for ships carrying vital grain exports from Ukraine, a move that may help ease concerns about global food supplies that were raised when Moscow suspended its participation in the pact last week.

The decision to reverse course and rejoin the agreement was announced by the Russian Ministry of Defense just days after Moscow cited drone attacks on the city of Sevastopol in occupied Crimea as the reason for its withdrawal from the deal.

“The Russian Federation considers that the guarantees received at the moment seem sufficient and resumes the implementation of the agreement,” the ministry said in a statement posted on its official Telegram channel.

[Edward64]

For a Star Wars fan, this is pretty funny & cool. Ukraine is the king of trolling. God help the US if we every get in a conflict with them, so much rich material for them to use. Hope they keep it like that after the war is over, would love to get a pic standing beside it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-...where-34594262

A statue of Vladimir Lenin in the Ukrainian city of Odessa has been given a sci-fi twist - by being transformed into Darth Vader.

The statue, in the grounds of a factory in the Black Sea port city, had been earmarked for removal under the country's "de-communisation" law. But instead, it now wears the instantly recognisable shiny black helmet and mask of the Star Wars villain, the local Dumskaya news website reports. "Everything flows and nothing abides," says warehouse manager Semyon Horbunov, taking inspiration from the Greek philosopher Heraclitus. "New heroes replace old ones, and this is how the world goes round."

But while the monument is Darth Vader on the outside, deep down it's still Lenin. "The bronze Lenin was left inside, so that the grateful or not-so-grateful descendants could exhume him, if needed," sculptor Alexander Milov is quoted is saying by Ukraine Today.

[Edward64]

Pretty cool shot of Polish soldiers on the Belarus border.

[Edward64]

There's news of another prisoner exchange. I think this is the 4th time. It's good that this is continuing. I would like some guarantees (from both sides) that they will not return to the front (I know they did this for some Azov leaders).

Also more news, evidence that Russian have abandoned the western bank of Kherson. Unsure if this means they plan to fight it out on the eastern bank though.

Thought below story was interesting. Some serious crowdfunding to help out Ukraine. Doing the math of $5.5M / 50 = $110K each. Heck, I might just shell out $110K for that novelty and have it parked in my front yard.

‘A joke that went out of control’: crowdfunding weapons for Ukraine’s war | Ukraine | The Guardian

By Christmas, 50 hardly used FV103 Spartan armoured personnel carriers (APCs), until recently the property of the British army, and currently in warehouses in secret locations across the UK, will arrive on the frontline in Ukraine’s war with Russia in time for the toughest winter conditions.

The transfer, the largest of such APCs to Ukraine, is not due to British munificence nor to procurement by the Ukrainian ministry of defence.

It is instead just the latest example of the extraordinary scale and indeed speed of the crowdfunding campaigns that have been powering the Ukrainian military since the early days of the war.

The fundraising appeal for the armoured vehicles – tagline “Grab them all” – had only been launched on Wednesday by the Serhiy Prytula charity foundation, named after its founder, a popular comedian and TV presenter with a sizeable online following.

It had been hoped that the $5.5m (£4.8m) required for the major purchase would be secured within a week.

Within nine hours, half of the funds had been pledged by donors, ranging from private individuals to big Ukrainian corporations and smaller high street firms, such as the bedding company World of Mattresses.

The British army has been using FV103 Spartans since 1978 but they are being phased out for newer designs. The 50 on sale are in private hands and each is said to have fewer than 10,000 miles on the clock.

[Edward64]

There was a reddit post that said below. It didn't have a link

Türkiye refused to let Russian ships get into the Black Sea Russian cruiser Varyag and Russian destroyer Admiral Tributs planned to sail to the Black Sea through Bosphorus. They've been waiting for 9 months. They are moving back to their base in Vladivostok.

But I was interested in that bit of history so read up on the Montreux Convention that regulates the strait

The (Montreux) Convention regarding the Regime of the Straits,[1][2] often known simply as the Montreux Convention,[3] is an international agreement governing the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits in Turkey. Signed on 20 July 1936 at the Montreux Palace in Switzerland,[4] it went into effect on 9 November 1936, addressing the long running Straits Question over who should control the strategically vital link between the Black and Mediterranean seas.[5]

The pertinent passage is

In wartime, if Turkey is not involved in the conflict, warships of the nations at war may not pass through the Straits, except when returning to their base. [7] When Turkey is at war, or feels threatened by a war, it may take any decision about the passage of warships as it sees fit.

[Edward64]

There's been leaks about the withdrawal for the past couple weeks, but guess this makes it official.

Russia announced Wednesday that it was withdrawing forces from Kherson, a key city in southern Ukraine, in what could turn out to be the most humiliating setback in President Vladimir Putin’s war.

In televised comments, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said he was ordering the withdrawal of troops across the Dnieper River, according to Reuters. Gen. Sergei Surovikin, the overall commander of Russian forces in Ukraine, proposed taking up defensive lines on the eastern bank of the river.

[sterlingice]

Once Ukraine launched their counteroffensive, they weren't going to be able to keep it. Who knows how much of the city is left in any sort of livable or defendable condition, though. And how many traps are there now

SI

[Edward64]

Interesting article from a couple days ago. Essentially, the US was not encouraging Zelenskyy to negotiate now but encouraging him to change the messaging that he was willing to negotiate.

I read somewhere else that US asked Zelenskyy to drop the "not with Putin" requirement, which he did.

I like this move and sounds reasonable to me. Lay the ground work now for some negotiations later. I think Zelenskyy can get back to pre-Feb borders but Crimea is going to be the big sticking point. Wonder how the not-so-bad mid-terms are factoring into Russian and Ukrainian calculus to negotiate.

US officials urge Ukraine to signal it is still open to diplomatic discussions with Russia | CNN Politics

Senior US officials have in recent weeks been urging Ukraine to signal that it is still open to diplomatic discussions with Russia, amid concerns that public support for the country’s war effort could wane with no end to the conflict in sight and neither side willing to begin peace talks, sources familiar with the discussions told CNN.

The discussions are not aimed at encouraging the Ukrainians to negotiate now – rather, the US wants Kyiv to convey more clearly that it wants to find a resolution to the conflict and that Ukraine has the moral high ground, sources said.

[sterlingice]

And, under no circumstances, should Zelenskyy be anywhere near the negotiations until it's time to sign stuff. Planes blow up and polonium finds its way into people's pockets so easily.

SI

[Edward64]

... or near windows.

I think the Russian strategy is to, at a minimum, fight to a stalemate. If there are no significant Ukrainian successes, I can see increase pressure from US/NATO to negotiate (e.g. oh, you want $15B of neat toys, here's $5B) by mid-2023.

I'm guessing pre-Feb borders; Russia keeps Crimea; no restitution from Russian but US/EU will help with rebuilding; no NATO invite but some sort of other military presence, security guarantee; maybe a UN buffer. Russia goes home claiming they've degraded Ukraine where they are no longer a threat, and no NATO expansion.

It would be great if Crimea was targeted next. Not house to house fighting, but choke it off and bomb all the bridges, cause panic and civilian relocation. I can see that as really hurting Putin's credibility, but that would be a major escalation that the allies do not want.

Clip below on Russian news pundits solemnly discussing the Kherson withdrawal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFClOV4iQMY

[GrantDawg]

I'm reading there are anywhere between 18-20 Thousand Russian troops on the wrong side of the river, and they are getting annihilated trying to get to Crimea. Totally and completely destroyed.

[Edward64]

How the frak could that happen. There’s been rumors for the past 2 weeks so you’d figure there was enough time to plan/do some sort of organized withdrawal.

Hope it’s true. It’ll be an interesting read the next several days


EDIT: the Rybar guy is saying it’s civilians that waited too long to leave. We’ll know the truth soon enough

[GrantDawg]

This is one of those reports. Someone a former intelligence officer trusts.

If the numbers that are still present on the right bank of the Dnipr that both Russian and Ukrainian sources are talking about are correct, then Russia is heading for an unparalleled loss.

— NOËL ���� ���� (@NOELreports) November 10, 2022

[Edward64]

Reading other stuff, think pretty clear it’s just not civilians. Looking forward to reading the updates Fri morning

[Edward64]

From the lack of pics and reports on Reddit, I don't think the massive rout occurred. There was fighting but it wasn't a Russian Dunkirk.

But Kherson has been liberated. Plenty of those pics.

[Edward64]

Article on internal discussions on negotiations with Russia. Really no idea what Biden is thinking but it is good that he is getting differing opinions to consider.

Militarily and intelligence wise, we've probably learn close to enough of Russian tactics, weapons capabilities etc.

Biden admin divided over path ahead for Ukraine as top US general Milley pushes for diplomacy | CNN Politics

During internal conversations about the war in Ukraine, America’s top general, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley, has in recent weeks led a strong push to seek a diplomatic solution as fighting heads toward a winter lull.

But Milley’s position is not widely backed by President Joe Biden’s national security team, including Secretary of State Antony Blinken and national security adviser Jake Sullivan, neither of whom believe it’s time to make a serious push for talks over Ukraine, according to two administration officials familiar with the discussion.

The result is a growing debate inside the administration over whether Ukraine’s recent gains on the battlefield should spark a renewed effort to seek some sort of negotiated end to the fighting, according to officials.

Milley’s push for peace has spilled into the public in recent days, just as Ukraine takes back the city of Kherson. In comments at the Economic Club of New York on Wednesday, Milley praised the Ukrainian army for fighting Russia to a stalemate, but said that an outright military victory is out of reach.

“When there’s an opportunity to negotiate, when peace can be achieved, seize it. Seize the moment,” Milley said.

The comments left administration officials unsurprised – given Milley’s advocacy for the position internally – but also raised concerned among some about the administration appearing divided in the eyes of the Kremlin.

While some Biden officials are more open to exploring what diplomacy may look like, sources tell CNN most of the top diplomatic and national security officials are wary of giving Russian President Vladimir Putin any sort of leverage at the negotiating table and believe Ukrainians must determine when to hold talks, not the US.

[Edward64]

Nice! Zelenskyy knows how to use the media (and play on public opinion).

Forget what I said previously, let's continue $ and military support, and encourage Ukraine to invade Russia proper (including Crimea).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyuzRDu9y08

[sterlingice]

How in the world do you negotiate this?

Like Russia would go "keep the borders where they are now and, fingers crossed, we definitely won't invade you in another 5 years, all the while trying to undermine your democracy so we can install another Lukashenko"? And if you're Ukraine, my offer is "GTFO our land" and Russia will never go for that - they can't.

SI

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm guessing pre-Feb borders; Russia keeps Crimea; no restitution from Russian but US/EU will help with rebuilding; no NATO invite but some sort of other military presence, security guarantee; maybe a UN buffer. Russia goes home claiming they've degraded Ukraine where they are no longer a threat, and no NATO expansion.

That's a terrible deal from the Ukrainian perspective given how the war is going. There's precisely zero chance I'd take that if I were them. A deal doesn't get done without one of NATO membership or Crimea being handed back.

[sterlingice]

And I'm sure both of those are non-starters for Russia.

Also, Russia's plan to screw with Western democracies has had an off couple of weeks with the GOP wave not materializing and the UK government falling apart.

SI

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

And I'm sure both of those are non-starters for Russia.

Also, Russia's plan to screw with Western democracies has had an off couple of weeks with the GOP wave not materializing and the UK government falling apart.

SI

Pretty much. So the war goes on

[Edward64]

I would like to try the Russian version of McDonalds.

'Tasty and That's It': Russia's knock-off McDonald's goes international | Euronews

[GrantDawg]

Is there moto: "Have it our way,....or else."

[Bobble]

"Coming to a nuclear powerplant near you ... whether you like it or not."

[GrantDawg]

"I'm forced to be loving it!"

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