NFL 2022-23 Season Thread

[Ksyrup]

If the Lions could win this game... Rest of the schedule is at least 4 wins, you'd think (for a good/hot team). But this it what they do - when not the absolute worst, they make you think something is possible only to barf it away.

[Kodos]

Poor clock management didn’t help the Lions today.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Poor clock management didn’t help the Lions today.

I thought they did a great job managing the clock... for the Bills. Wasted so much time that they were playing to tie rather than win, then left just enough time for Allen to win it if he came up with one great throw.

The Patriots are another team that are showing life again, this time with a very good defense. They beat themselves as well tonight.

What is it about Cousins? It's like he's a cat who keeps toying with his food before he decides he's hungry. He gets paid like a franchise guy. He racks up late fourth-quarter game-winning drives like they're candy. Five of them this season alone, and I don't even count tonight's because the score came with 9 1/2 minutes remaining (I start counting them at 7:30).

Then you add it all up and realize that he's only 1-2 for his entire career in the playoffs.

[tzach]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Yeah, I've seen enough. Wilson does not have it. Never will.

agreed -- another huge pre-draft misevaluation. the succcess rate of QBs tells us that this is a pretty difficult business, i get that. and i know very little about QB evaluation going into the draft, but i'd think that by now teams would have figured out a way to gauge if a QB prospect can (learn to) process NFL defenses under game-like conditions.

[BishopMVP]

Most coaches are egotistical & think they can take any guy with talent and mold him better than previous coaches, and the success of guys like Josh Allen and Mahomes helps their argument. But there's something to be said for not being an arrogant douchebag and it sure seems like a lot of these recent busts are.

Brutal one for the Patriots, but even with a few bad/missed calls tough to say they didn't give the game away between special teams & settling for FG's which works better vs the Jets than the Vikings. (Slash Justin Jefferson took it.) At least the OL wasn't a disaster even with Andrews out again, and Mac looked pretty great. Bills don't have the mystique they did 2 months ago but that's now a borderline must win.

[Ksyrup]

I'm struggling to pick a 4pm game I want to watch. They could all end up being good games (close and entertaining), but sitting here right now, they all look like uninteresting games featuring one underachieving/trash team. Not quite as bad as MNF this week, but close.

Actually this entire day looks pretty shitty in terms of matchups. Bengals/Titans the best I guess?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm struggling to pick a 4pm game I want to watch. They could all end up being good games (close and entertaining), but sitting here right now, they all look like uninteresting games featuring one underachieving/trash team. Not quite as bad as MNF this week, but close.

Actually this entire day looks pretty shitty in terms of matchups. Bengals/Titans the best I guess?

I would love to be able to watch that Titans- Bengals game but in Denver we get Panthers vs Broncos ….good lord.

[QuikSand]

Nathan Peterman sighting

Batten down the hatches

[Ksyrup]

I saw that yesterday. How is someone like him even still mentioned in the same breath as the NFL, let alone on an active roster?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I saw that yesterday. How is someone like him even still mentioned in the same breath as the NFL, let alone on an active roster?

he's starting today


in related news, the Jets D is pretty affordable on both main fantasy sites

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, I just saw! Siemian got hurt in warmups.

Well, now that one might be must-see TV!

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

he's starting today


in related news, the Jets D is pretty affordable on both main fantasy sites

Also in related news, It's the Jets.

Trust them at your own risk.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Also in related news, It's the Jets.

Trust them at your own risk.

Bears defense is really, really, REALLY bad. And has two starters out with concussions.

Add that to the man, the myth, the legend, Nathan Peterman, and this is gonna be ugly.

[Coffee Warlord]

Update: Looks like it's Siemian after all.

[Solecismic]

I wonder what odds one could get for Sam Darnold leading the Panthers to a division title?

[Ryche]

I think there's a legitimate chance Hackett gets fired after this game. GM maybe follows after the season as neither were hired under the current ownership group.

[Edward64]

Falcons disappoint again

[Solecismic]

Got to admire Pederson there. And nice execution from Lawrence. I'm sure the fans love the effort.

ETA: Hate squib kicks though. That was too easy to set up.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Ryche

I think there's a legitimate chance Hackett gets fired after this game. GM maybe follows after the season as neither were hired under the current ownership group.

I hope so.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Ryche

I think there's a legitimate chance Hackett gets fired after this game. GM maybe follows after the season as neither were hired under the current ownership group.

What GM wants that job? No first rounder, and a masssssive chunk of salary cap tied up for years.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

What GM wants that job? No first rounder, and a masssssive chunk of salary cap tied up for years.

I think it would still be attractive. Wealthiest owners in the league, probably a lot of leeway knowing the mess that has to be fixed. Wilson is still maybe salvageable. And they do at least have a first next season from SF.

[GrantDawg]

Edward, did the Falcons disappoint or just meet expectation? They just are who they are.

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[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Edward, did the Falcons disappoint or just meet expectation? They just are who they are.

Yeah, kinda this really.

I would have thought they had a shot at being in the #1 overall pick sweepstakes going into the season so being a half-game out of first in the NFC Oof division is really overacheiving.

[GrantDawg]

Smith is a pretty good coach. He is getting everything he can out of roster completely devoid of talent. They have really won more than I wished. I would rather have lost a couple more and be in play for that top pick. They are going to have huge amounts of cap space next year.

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[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Edward, did the Falcons disappoint or just meet expectation? They just are who they are.

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Just who they are I saw mid 3Q on and they looked okay. And they could have won it except for that darn tipped-pass interception on the 5 yard line.

It won't happen because we're still in the hunt but it would be great to see Ridder play (and develop) more.

Tampa lost so they didn't fall behind.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am currently rooting for all bad teams - who are not the Rams - to win. I’d love to see that Rams pick turn into a top 5 or top 3 overall pick.

Other than the Texans, it’s pretty wide open after that.

[Coffee Warlord]

Word is, Darnell Mooney is done for the year, with multiple ligament tears, requiring surgery.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ryche

I think there's a legitimate chance Hackett gets fired after this game. GM maybe follows after the season as neither were hired under the current ownership group.

It's interesting to watch Russell Wilson try to lead a team that doesn't have Pete Carroll coaching it. Carroll really covered for Rus and is one of the best at controlling a locker room. I'm sure he squashed a ton of shit before it left the facility.

Wilson is as douchey and fake as anyone can be and there had been rumors for years around here about how much he was disliked by teammates, especially during the legion of boom days. The rumors of him using the seahawks audibles, being involved in Gordon's release (even if warranted), ect don't surprise me.

[Ksyrup]

In a league in which teams routinely bring in other teams' practice squad players the week of a game to get info or interview coaches to try to get an advantage, how the hell did the Broncos make this trade without getting any kind of insight into who they were getting? It blows my mind.

I don't expect the typical fan to know much more then what we see every Sunday, and Wilson looked like a still-great QB, but someone running the Broncos should have gotten the truth from somewhere.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

In a league in which teams routinely bring in other teams' practice squad players the week of a game to get info or interview coaches to try to get an advantage, how the hell did the Broncos make this trade without getting any kind of insight into who they were getting? It blows my mind.

I don't expect the typical fan to know much more then what we see every Sunday, and Wilson looked like a still-great QB, but someone running the Broncos should have gotten the truth from somewhere.

There's a psychological narrative that's always tailored to the current record of the team you're looking at. It's written by people who are good at writing about such things.

Players like to win. They sacrifice their bodies because they want to win. In return, they make ridiculous amounts of money. But the enjoyment comes from hoisting those trophies.

Giving yourself to a system is difficult. Players do it because football is a team game and if you don't buy into what your coach is doing, you don't win. And losing really makes all that sacrifice feel like crap.

Coaches build systems and GMs get players that fit those systems. Some pieces are obvious - get me edge rushers who can maintain the edge and get to the quarterback. But some pieces aren't. Run a playbook that suits your quarterback's skills.

Look at two quarterbacks. One was the 75th pick ten years ago and one was the 39th pick nine years ago. The first is a little short by NFL standards, but had amazing field vision. The second is NFL sized, but had maturity issues. Without those problems, both would have been drafted a lot higher.

Both are very high-run quarterbacks. They use their evasiveness to buy time and they make defenses pay who don't keep a spy around.

The first went to Seattle, where the the coach was established and had significant control over personnel. He became an instant star, with a playbook designed to get him moving (thus creating his own sight lines to compensate for his unusual height challenge).

The second went to the Jets, where the coaching staff was far less established. His maturity issues were challenged. He didn't play well. He got benched. He got forgotten, until Seattle needed a backup quarterback and realized he could run the same playbook at the first quarterback.

Something went on behind the scenes in Seattle. The second quarterback bought into the system. He trusted a coach who has earned a lot of trust from players over the years. He matured. And, unlike most running quarterbacks at his talent level, he hasn't accumulated the hits (unless you count shots to the jaw from angry teammates).

Things aren't perfect in Seattle. The defensive core got old. Cap issues. Festering anger from not winning more Super Bowls when they were there to be won. But the quarterback is playing well and they're not that far from being a good team.

Things are far worse in Denver. The first quarterback has accumulated too many hits. He's on his way to the Hall of Fame. He can do a great job in the right system, but the players haven't bought into the system in Denver and maybe there isn't even one there. He's a good leader, so he tries to lead. But the plays aren't designed to get him sight lines and he can't run his way out of that any more.

Maybe it's too late for Denver. Maybe Wilson, who turns 34 tomorrow, is on the down side of his career. But I've seen enough to know that the coach wasn't prepared for this challenge. In the NFL, if your coach doesn't have something to buy into that gives you results, he needs to go. Kind of like the situation in Carolina last year. The coach had something to buy into, but no idea whatsoever how to install it or inspire confidence in men who had already gone through the college football experience and learned about team.

TLR summary: don't trust the narrative on Wilson. He is the guy who did the things he did in Seattle. Carroll wouldn't have given him the keys if he wasn't certain Wilson could drive. Now he's being given different keys, and perhaps he's had a few too many accidents to drive as well as he used to drive.

[QuikSand]

well said

[sterlingice]

A lot of interesting food for thought there

SI

[Ksyrup]

That's why I think it's almost necessary to fire Hackett. Or make a ton of changes to where Hackett is just HC in name only. Wilson's not getting any younger and any hope of getting value out of his contract is in the next couple years. You can't wait to find someone or some scheme for him to buy into - assuming it's not just the end of the road already...

[Ryche]

I think ideally, at least in my mind, the Broncos promote Ejiro Evero to be their head coach and then bring in Darrell Bevell to run the offense. That's catering to Russell more than I prefer but they are stuck with him for now. They might as well bring in someone who has success with Wilson in the past.

[albionmoonlight]

San Fran’s front office is really really good. Just watching yesterday, the sheer number of blue chip players on each side of the ball is impressive.

And that is with having traded a lot for a QB who is injured.

[Ksyrup]

Denver needs to bring John Lynch back home where he belongs!

[molson]

Being married to Russell at QB the next few years no matter what has to make the Broncos job one of the least appealing head coaching jobs in history.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

TLR summary: don't trust the narrative on Wilson. He is the guy who did the things he did in Seattle. Carroll wouldn't have given him the keys if he wasn't certain Wilson could drive. Now he's being given different keys, and perhaps he's had a few too many accidents to drive as well as he used to drive.

What is the Russ narrative, both on and off the field? I think he is still the guy the things he did in Seattle. He is also the guy who supposedly was being held back by everything going on in Seattle. The guy who was not allowed to cook in the same way Brady, Rodgers and now Mahomes were. He was too good for the stuff they had him doing in Seattle. Now he is with the guy who was with Rodgers and he is not cooking. Now maybe it is all Hackett's fault and a new head coach will fix everything to suit Russ. What does that mean? Do the same stuff he supposedly was too good to do in Seattle? This does not include the off the field issues where it looks like another set of teammates don't hold him in the highest regards.

[Ksyrup]

I read an interesting thought that Hackett will likely remain the HC for the rest of the year if for no other reason than to save Wilson (and themselves) from the fans. Because once Hackett is gone, Wilson becomes the primary target and shines a huge light on the obvious mistake. They're just trying to get to the off-season by kicking the can down the road until games are over and they can attempt some sort of reset.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

What is the Russ narrative, both on and off the field? I think he is still the guy the things he did in Seattle. He is also the guy who supposedly was being held back by everything going on in Seattle. The guy who was not allowed to cook in the same way Brady, Rodgers and now Mahomes were. He was too good for the stuff they had him doing in Seattle. Now he is with the guy who was with Rodgers and he is not cooking. Now maybe it is all Hackett's fault and a new head coach will fix everything to suit Russ. What does that mean? Do the same stuff he supposedly was too good to do in Seattle? This does not include the off the field issues where it looks like another set of teammates don't hold him in the highest regards.

That is the basic narrative lately, that he's unpopular with teammates. That he has checked out and won't show emotion.

You had the trade rumors in recent years, along with the problems when the defense got old. He complained more about personnel issues - that he wasn't getting offensive linemen who he trusted. That will provoke reaction.

This season is a tire fire, obviously. The defense is playoff caliber and the offense is... not. His scrambling was already way down, as is inevitable once a quarterback gets older.

I'm not sure about the "too good" part. Carroll traded him when he could basically fuel the rebuild off of it. Denver thought it was buying the last piece of a championship, and didn't think about whether that piece could run a more west coasty offense (defining west coast is difficult - basically a west coast play is one where routes go to the middle and YAC is hoped for - lower air yards). It looks somewhat like what Rodgers ran, which is understandable given Hackett's recent experience. But Wilson has always used his mobility to push the ball downfield more than just about anyone.

The thing about rising to the top is that when you fall, a lot of people you encountered along the way up have something to say about it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

What is the Russ narrative, both on and off the field?

Google Mr. Unlimited

Then you have the cringe post-sex video he posted to celebrate his new contract in 2016, posting vacation pics in Hawaii during the playoff bye week a few years ago, claims the bottled water he's invested in cures concussions, and on and on.

There's a certain amount of shit teammates and fans are willing to put up with when you're playing great. Russ isn't playing great anymore which makes his act tired, old, and people are more willing to speak out about him now.

[miami_fan]

Him being unpopular with his teammates is not a new narrative. It is one that is a bit more believable now that Richard Sherman is not the only one saying it after a Super Bowl loss. This article allowed both sides to air out the other's dirty laundry.

Inside the Russell Wilson-Seattle Seahawks drama that led to the Denver Broncos trade

When I said "too good", I mean Wilson thinking he was too good to be in the Pete Carroll system in Seattle at this point in his career. That he was beyond that system and needed to move somewhere to be in a system that would allow him more room to be "... the best in the world to ever do this." like Brady, Manning, Brees and Montana. He has not looked like that this year. I can't see him wanting to go back to the things were done in Seattle.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Atocep

There's a certain amount of shit teammates and fans are willing to put up with when you're playing great. Russ isn't playing great anymore which makes his act tired, old, and people are more willing to speak out about him now.

I would argue that every great athlete has quirks, and when you're winning, the quirks are quite charming. But if you're on the way down, then they're no longer charming.

I read the ESPN article. It sounds like Carroll and Wilson did fine together, with the usual tension when things didn't go well. The trade was quite clearly Carroll understanding that the king's ransom Denver was willing to pay was far, far beyond their expectations for a running quarterback who would be 34 in the upcoming season.

I'm not saying I don't fault Wilson in this. He wants better linemen, but he also wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL. Maybe those are mutually exclusive goals. And the trade ensures that the Broncos won't be able to improve.

But the bottom line is that Denver committed to this, and they have to figure out a way to use Wilson's skill set. He still has a great arm. If they are expecting him to sit in the pocket, they need to get Drew Brees on the phone and figure out how Brees moved around to find sight lines, because Wilson doesn't. Nor did Brees keep the ball long enough to throw deep all that often.

I'm not saying it's fair, but if Hackett can't figure this all out, he doesn't deserve to keep the job. Wilson's not going anywhere with that contract. The dead cap figure for 2023 is $107 million.

[stevew]

If there ever was a time to drive into Indianapolis and take an L, like a man, it was tonight. Jeff Saturday needs to get that leader of men shit together. Steelers are on pace to be like the worst 7-10 team in history.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Jeff Saturday needs to get that leader of men shit together.

Dude was a mediocre high school coach, going to be a tremendous shock to me if he's anything more than that at another level.

[tzach]

it still baffles me how hackett became a head coach hotshot. he was mediocre calling plays in JAX and was never trusted to do so in his 3 yrs in GBY. how does that translate to becoming a HC prospect? he must have leadership traits and interview well to ever be considered to that job.



now, it's clear that wilson doesn't fit hackett's (mediocre) off system and vice-versa. as with many qbs, it's hard to disentangle the player from the system without breaking them apart. it's getting more and more likely that we'll see that in 2024.

[bhlloy]

If leadership traits and interview skills is a code word for being young, white and reminding NFL owners of their precocious youth and their sons in law, then yes.

Remember everyone, Bienemy hasn’t got a job because he doesn’t call the plays and his success is all down to Andy Reid. Please continue to nod along to this convincing explanation. Look at all the interviews we are continuing to give to minority candidates!

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by stevew

If there ever was a time to drive into Indianapolis and take an L, like a man, it was tonight. Jeff Saturday needs to get that leader of men shit together. Steelers are on pace to be like the worst 7-10 team in history.

The pathetic thing is that, had Watt not been injured, I think there is a real good chance we would have 2 out of 3 (and possibly all 3) games against the young QBs against the Patriots, Dolphins, and Jets and could be 7-4. And we have been absolutely wretched most of the season. Still have the @Falcons, @Panthers, and Raiders and Browns at home - which are probably all winnable, along with Ravens twice and Bengals at home where anything could happen. Weird season and the worst we have looked in a long time, but at least Pickett showed some promise last night (albeit vs the Colts).

[stevew]

Is there even a mechanism where Wilson or Rodgers could possibly pay back guaranteed money in order to facilitate a trade? Looks like the Broncos would need to be pushing cap space forward for 2-3 years to even consider getting out of this deal in 2024 or 2025.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by stevew

Is there even a mechanism where Wilson or Rodgers could possibly pay back guaranteed money in order to facilitate a trade? Looks like the Broncos would need to be pushing cap space forward for 2-3 years to even consider getting out of this deal in 2024 or 2025.

Looks like the earliest Denver can really consider cutting Wilson is in 2024 for an 85 million cap hit (which can be spread out over 2024 and 2025). If there's not substantial improvement next season and they are actually able to draft a QB in 2024, this seems pretty likely. Painful as hell but they won't have much choice.


Good article about various QB contracts today in ESPN+ Complicated NFL QB contracts to know: Rodgers, Russell, more