2013-14 NBA Season Thread

[korme]

Originally Posted by nol

It's entirely likely that a big-market NBA team will be turning a nine-figure annual profit within the next 10 or so years (the Knicks had an operating income of $96 million last season, and the Clippers will have a bigger national and local TV deal on the horizon), so even when you throw out the various perks of spending your retirement years hobnobbing with celebrities courtside while vicariously living out your sports fantasies, he still might come out ahead.

edit: and net worth-wise, this is the equivalent of Joe Sixpack buying a shiny new pickup truck to drive around in his retirement.

Exactly. Balmer is worth something like 50 billion. Small loss if he doesn't get a return on his investment - but he will.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

I didn't see if he's reffed lately, but I hear Joey Crawford's music.

NBA.com - Referee Assignments

Apparently we'll know about 9am in the morning

SI

[stevew]

Scott Foster, the potentially crooked Donaghey associate. Hats off to Silver, he's not messing around.

[miami_fan]

2014 NBA playoffs -- Larry Bird to Lance Stephenson on antics - 'Don't do it again' - ESPN

My favorite part of the article

When asked what would have happened had Stephenson blown in Bird's ear in a playoff game during Bird's playing days, Stephenson was blunt.

"There probably would've been a fight," he said. "But this is a different type of game from the '90s. You can't throw blows."

[Matthean]

Let's see Stephenson blow into Laimbeer's ear.

[stevew]

Cmon Jasmine Forsythe

[nol]

Miami's offense has been rolling for the last couple minutes and is about to make the real subplot of this game whatever performance art Lance Stephenson's putting on right now. Probably upwards of a 90 percent chance he gets ejected at some point.

[CU Tiger]

Something about Superman's cape...

[Groundhog]

Well this game has officially wasted my Saturday morning.

[Groundhog]

I can't remember if the sign and trade rules changed recently? But that's what I'd be trying to do with Lance Stephenson if I ran the Pacers. See if you can fleece a bad team for a draft pick.

[nol]

That'd be a disaster waiting to happen. He played on a team that made the conference finals and was a 1 seed, and his own teammates could barely stand him. It's that much more annoying if it's taking place on a 30-52 team.

[stevew]

Lance to the Cavs!

[Groundhog]

Lance to me seems like he's destined to be a scorer on a bad team. Tell me he wouldn't look perfect on a lottery-bound Bucks squad.

[nol]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Something about Superman's cape...

Originally Posted by Frank Vogel

I don’t think it’s ever good to tug on Superman’s cape.

Also the Bucks would be wise to not let Stephenson anywhere near Giannis and Wiggins/Embiid.

[Julio Riddols]

I know I want Stephenson gone. Badly. Guys like that kill a team.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ugh...NO NO NO

Kevin Love visits Boston - Boston Celtics Blog - ESPN Boston

[Matthean]

Still wanting that one more title for Timmay.

[Lathum]

Predictions?

I say Spurs in 5. I think all the games will be close but the Spurs depth and the revenge factor will play a major part. I think Ginoballi has a huge series.

[CU Tiger]

I hope Miami gets it done.
Really really hope Miami gets it done, but I think the Spurs will be too much barring a rejuvenation by Wade and 5 games of 2005 level play.

All this is assuming the Spurs are draining 3s like they were last year. If they go cold behind the arc this will be done in 5, at most.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Predictions?

I say Spurs in 5. I think all the games will be close but the Spurs depth and the revenge factor will play a major part. I think Ginoballi has a huge series.

I think the scales are still in the Heat's favor. San Antonio is banged up and the Heat had most of a cakewalk to the Finals. Still, the Spurs will play pissed but Miami still has that higher gear to kick into that I'm not sure San Antonio can always match.

SI

[Dutch]

Heat in 6 is my guess.

[nol]

I think Spurs in 6 if Parker's not too injured. They almost have to win in 5 or 6 because I wouldn't pick against LeBron in a game 7.

[bob]

I wish we didn't have to wait almost a week in between the end of this round and the start of the next.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Former New Jersey Nets owner Lewis Katz dies in plane crash - ESPN New York

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Ugh...NO NO NO

Kevin Love visits Boston - Boston Celtics Blog - ESPN Boston

My opinion on a trade will come down to what we give up. Having Kevin Love amenable to Boston, or actively pushing Minnesota to pick Boston over other teams can only be a good thing.

[stevew]

Love and a assumedly healthy Rondo is a solid core. Boston could fill in pieces and rebuild.

[korme]

Isn't Rubio just a poor man's Rondo at this point?

[stevew]

He's like a mcdonalds worker version of Rondo.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Love and a assumedly healthy Rondo is a solid core. Boston could fill in pieces and rebuild.

Love isn't going to a rebuild, not unless he's traded without signing a new deal anyway. If he goes to Boston, they will need to show him a plan which has them contending quickly.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't see Love as a key piece in a contender.

Given I haven't watched a ton of NBA so I don't really know, but that's just my off-the-cuff impression.

He's a big-body who's mediocre on defense and plays at a spot/in a style that isn't that of a "premier scorer." Plus...I dunno...he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who draws double-teams/makes his teammates better. He needs a Rubio/Rondo/elite PG to feed him, and other scorers around him to get him favorable matchups.

As a piece of your team:

1st option: C
2nd option: B- ?
3rd option: A

That's just my impression and admittedly I'm not really an NBA fan, so I'd love for someone to tell me that I'm wrong.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I don't see Love as a key piece in a contender.

Given I haven't watched a ton of NBA so I don't really know, but that's just my off-the-cuff impression.

He's a big-body who's mediocre on defense and plays at a spot/in a style that isn't that of a "premier scorer." Plus...I dunno...he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who draws double-teams/makes his teammates better. He needs a Rubio/Rondo/elite PG to feed him, and other scorers around him to get him favorable matchups.

As a piece of your team:

1st option: C
2nd option: B- ?
3rd option: A

That's just my impression and admittedly I'm not really an NBA fan, so I'd love for someone to tell me that I'm wrong.

You're wrong. He's better than you're giving him credit for.

[korme]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I don't see Love as a key piece in a contender.

Given I haven't watched a ton of NBA so I don't really know, but that's just my off-the-cuff impression.

He's a big-body who's mediocre on defense and plays at a spot/in a style that isn't that of a "premier scorer." Plus...I dunno...he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who draws double-teams/makes his teammates better. He needs a Rubio/Rondo/elite PG to feed him, and other scorers around him to get him favorable matchups.

As a piece of your team:

1st option: C
2nd option: B- ?
3rd option: A

That's just my impression and admittedly I'm not really an NBA fan, so I'd love for someone to tell me that I'm wrong.

You're wrong.

Here's what Zach Lowe had to say about Love in March:

"We can debate Love’s shortcomings, and loudly revoke his superstar card for failing to lead his team to the playoffs in any of his first six seasons. And he has shortcomings. He offers no rim protection, he lollygags in transition defense, he’s not going to make spirited second and third rotations on the same defensive possession, and he often fails to challenge shots in order to secure boxout position — and precious rebounds. Love wants his numbers.

He generally plays hard, and he strikes me and others around the league as someone who will grow out of his bad habits. He’s never going to be an elite defender, but he can be an average one, and he has a quick mind and sound understanding of where he needs to be.

He is an offense unto himself — a 3-point bombing machine who warps entire defenses Dirk Nowitzki–style, dominates the glass, passes well, and has developed a strong post game that draws regular double-teams. He’d have made the playoffs by now had the Wolves not whiffed on so many draft picks and free-agency signings. If a team can get Kevin Love, it should get him. He is a superstar, period. David Kahn’s refusal to offer Love the full five-year max deal in 2012 wasn’t just a mistake. It was one of the great front-office blunders in modern NBA history."

[DaddyTorgo]

Okay, so maybe I'm wrong then. That's reassuring.

[Vince, Pt. II]

He's essentially David Lee, only better at everything. With potential to be an average defender eventually.

[Groundhog]

Spurs in 6, but I wouldn't be shocked if Heat won. I just think this year's Spurs are better than last year's, and this year's Heat are worse.

[Groundhog]

You can win with a numbers guy like Love, but you need the right pieces around him - basically a team built to compliment his weaknesses. You need a rim protector at C, a playmaker at PG, and 3/D guys at SG/SF who can take advantage of the attention that Love will get and also lock down on perimeter players and play good team defense, which is why Minnesota didn't work - they were a gambling team with no rim protection, which is a recipe for distaster.

Re: Celtics Rondo would work very well on pick-and-pops with Love, as Love's defender can't jam Rondo off the pick as he'll need to cover Love. Bradley can probably be the 3/D guy. Green is not a great fit, and neither is Olynyk.

[Vince, Pt. II]

If we're just talking team, the Warriors are a near perfect fit - the problem is you need to give up some of these guys to get him:

PG Curry - still makes too many stupid passes, but is enough of a passer to distribute well. Plus his shooting will help relax the D.
SG Thompson - your perfect 3/D guy. Plays very good defense, and is nearly as good with the three pointers as Steph.
SF Iguodala - Great defense with distribution skills and the ability to score on his own if necessary.
PF Love
C Bogut - One of the best defensive C's in the league when healthy, plus he can pass really well.

[nol]

Crazy stat I just saw - before this season, teams were 0-25 all time in playoff series when matched up against a team that swept them 4-0 or worse during the regular season.

Now, they're 2-25 all time (Miami/Brooklyn and San Antonio/Oklahoma City).

[Groundhog]

I have to say, the Spurs gave Fisher a nice retirement gift - switching Duncan and Diaw onto him in the post every opportunity they got. He actually did OK a few times, fighting to keep Duncan out of position. Good coaching by the Spurs to counting the switching though, I don't think that's a strategy you should use against a Pop-coached team.

[Groundhog]

In 25 minutes of overtime during playoffs, Russell Westbrook shot 1-21 from field and 0-7 from three. He had just 5 points in all overtimes.

— Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) June">https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/statuses/473140651484512256">June 1, 2014

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I say Spurs in 5.

There's no way in hell Lebron let's that happen.

[Groundhog]

Starting 5s are going to be interesting. I think Bosh/Lewis works this series as well and forces Spurs to start maybe Diaw or even Bonner again.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Matthean

There's no way in hell Lebron let's that happen.

This. Heat get the threepeat, LeBron wants history and the Spurs are only advancing because Ibaka took the first two games off before those horse steroids they gave him to come back took effect and Brooks can't coach out of a paper bag and none of the superstars on that team showed up.

But yes, Heat in 6.

Also Kevin Love is a walking double-double...so long as he's not your go-to guy, he's a hell of a boost to any roster...

[nol]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

You can win with a numbers guy like Love, but you need the right pieces around him - basically a team built to compliment his weaknesses. You need a rim protector at C, a playmaker at PG, and 3/D guys at SG/SF who can take advantage of the attention that Love will get and also lock down on perimeter players and play good team defense, which is why Minnesota didn't work - they were a gambling team with no rim protection, which is a recipe for distaster.

This is also underselling Love a bit because a lineup like that is like playing Bingo with four free spaces - you could throw in pretty much any PF and that team would be pushing 50 wins.

There are maybe 15 guys in the league who could credibly be described as 3-and-D wings once you throw out players who are flat-out stars. A lineup of Ty Lawson, Wes Matthews, Kawhi Leonard, and Omer Asik easily has the makings of a top-5 defense as long as the bench and PF aren't terrible. Plug in an average player like Brandon Bass as the PF and that team's better than the Raptors and right there in the playoff race in the West.

You definitely want a shotblocker to pair with Love, but you don't need to set that high of a bar for the supporting cast. I'll be the first to say that Love is nowhere close to a prime KG, but he's definitely more than a guy putting up numbers on a crappy team if only because the "crappy team" was average to above-average based on its regular season record playing in the West.

[Danny]

Derek Fisher is going to be a hall of famer. Not specifically for his time as a player, but for his overall contributions when its all said and done

[Vince, Pt. II]

I was with you right up until:

Originally Posted by nol

...and right there in the playoff race in the West...

Sorry, you need a bit more than that to be viable in the West. Unless you're talking about the race for the 6-7-8 seeds and bounced in the first round, that is.

[nol]

That's what I'm talking about. See also: pushing 50 wins.


And even then, the West's 6-7-8 seeds all lost in Game 7, so it's not like those teams were sacrificial lambs. San Antonio's a powerhouse that won 58 games in the regular season without playing anyone more than 30 minutes per game, but if they had slipped up it wouldn't have been crazy to see any of the other teams make it to the Finals with a little luck.

That made-up team with an average PF wouldn't be quite at that level, but I brought that up to show how with an "ideal" supporting cast that doesn't include other All-Stars/superstars, Love would absolutely be the go-to scorer on a powerhouse team (and he's not a bad enough individual defender to sink a defense that has multiple lockdown perimeter defenders and a good rim protector). Obviously it's not realistic to be able to surround him with that kind of talent given the salary cap, but Love with a supporting cast just a little better than Minnesota's (not the worst, but Rubio's shooting makes it harder for him to make plays for others in crunch time, Martin and Brewer equal 1 3-and-D guy combined, and Pekovic's not a great rim protector) would definitely be a good team, unless your definition of "good" is only able to accommodate like 3-4 teams per season.

Again, the fact that the conferences were so imbalanced this year that the T-Wolves would've won more games than the Raptors if both teams played the same schedule weakens any argument based on making the playoffs/finishing over .500.

[nol]

As an unscientific (very unscientific, when you see who actually got some votes) way of looking at how rare 3-and-D wings are, here's a list of all the wings who received All-Defense votes and shot 35% or better on 3-pointers: Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Andre Iguodala, LeBron James, Lance Stephenson, P.J. Tucker, Kevin Durant, Trevor Ariza, Klay Thompson, Wes Matthews, Nic Batum, DeMarre Carroll, Arron Afflalo, Danny Granger (oops?) and James Harden (seriously got 2 votes).

I'm sure you can look through the 3-point percentage leaders and find guys like Kyle Korver who at least deserved some votes, but I don't think they screwed up the vote badly enough to completely omit anyone who'd be considered a potential lockdown defender.

That's like 5-6 guys who won't be making $10 million or more next season (Sefolosha had an off year shooting threes and would be part of that group otherwise), so they definitely don't grow on trees. Most teams have to sacrifice a little in the shooting or defense department or hope they get lucky in the draft.

[Chief Rum]

Had a scary thought, which is likely impossible because of the cap, but scary anyway.

Best ever PF Duncan wins fifth title and retires. Spurs find way to acquire Love to replace him. Dynasty continues.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Had a scary thought, which is likely impossible because of the cap, but scary anyway.

Best ever PF Duncan wins fifth title and retires. Spurs find way to acquire Love to replace him. Dynasty continues.

It wouldn't, partly because they'd lose too much on defense but more because Duncan retiring means Popovich is pretty likely to bow out as well.

Actually the main reason against that would be because Love seems to be angling for a bigger market. Star players like to claim to be all about winning championships, but clearly money, fame and putting up numbers play some role in it since you never hear about San Antonio as a possible free agent destination. And that's not necessarily a bad thing; it just means that most players are only human (like the fans who claim to hate me-first basketball but also find the Spurs boring).