Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)

[Tyrith]

KWhit, the problem with you being a target is that it allows the bad guys to play a bit of a mind game with us. If they DON'T kill you, then the first step is because you're a bad guy -- so far you've acted like a good guy, more or less, but we don't have any concrete PROOF so far. So while I'm fairly certain you're a good guy -- the Cicero of our little WW Rome, perhaps? -- we can't be sure, and if you stay alive it brings up questions. Same thing that oftentimes happens when bad guys try to discredit seers, and without allegiance revealed on death the whole psychological warfare thing gets taken a step further.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

And since we don't get to find out what role everyone else is playing when they die, I'd rather have people ALIVE.

Vote to FREE ITC.

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

The lawyers can tell what allegiance a player is upon death.

[Tyrith]

VOTE ELECT HOOPSGUY

In case I forget to do it for the rest of the day. I will be out from around 5 CST until around deadline, so I'll just get it in now.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'm still catching up. But I just want to point out that if the traitors got a consul position, wouldn't it make more sense to arrest a loyal Senator than to not arrest anyone?

I initially thought the same thing. But then somebody (I think Chief Rum) indicated that with 2 candidates it would be hard to get a kill (maybe Kwhit brought that up). So a Tarq may want to deliver one candidate rather than 2 in order to ensure there was not a need to get 13 votes on one candidate when votes are split between 2 senators. With just one, the chance of a lynch could be higher. Not sure if that is the soundest approach for a Tarq to make or not, but it does make sense.

Also, with just one candidate, there is less of a true voting record to make. As Republicans, it is to our benefit and increases our chances to win the game by lynching. Every turn we do not lynch someone, our changes of winning the game are reduced, because the Tarqs would get thier kill each night. They are 100% sure to hit a Republican, so the longer we wait, the they get closer to winning each turn. When we lynch, we have a chance to kill a Tarq and as the numbers decrase our chances of hitting a Tarq increase. As the days proceed we establish patterns and try to use new information to make our lynch decisions better.

I really think the consuls need to talk about who they are arresting as that is how we are presented with who to lynch. I think people who are open and willing to engage in pulling ideas from the group should be considered for Consulship and not those who are not open to discussion or are prone to just deciding who they want.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I initially thought the same thing. But then somebody (I think Chief Rum) indicated that with 2 candidates it would be hard to get a kill (maybe Kwhit brought that up). So a Tarq may want to deliver one candidate rather than 2 in order to ensure there was not a need to get 13 votes on one candidate when votes are split between 2 senators. With just one, the chance of a lynch could be higher. Not sure if that is the soundest approach for a Tarq to make or not, but it does make sense.

But that assumes that both consuls are traitors. If only one is, and they do not arrest someone, then yes they are increasing the chances for an execution, but without control over who's being executed. I don't think I'd take that chance if I was a traitor, but I suppose it's possible.

I really think the consuls need to talk about who they are arresting as that is how we are presented with who to lynch. I think people who are open and willing to engage in pulling ideas from the group should be considered for Consulship and not those who are not open to discussion or are prone to just deciding who they want.

I agree. I'd like to vote for two people who will listen to the group about who to arrest, and who do not already play a prominent role.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I initially thought the same thing. But then somebody (I think Chief Rum) indicated that with 2 candidates it would be hard to get a kill (maybe Kwhit brought that up).

I'm the one who brought that up.

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

So a Tarq may want to deliver one candidate rather than 2 in order to ensure there was not a need to get 13 votes on one candidate when votes are split between 2 senators. With just one, the chance of a lynch could be higher. Not sure if that is the soundest approach for a Tarq to make or not, but it does make sense.

But there are 2 Consuls. And they don't know who the other one is going to arrest. So it would be a BAD IDEA for a Tarq to not arrest someone and just hope that the other Consul would arrest a loyal roman. What if the other Consul arrested a Tarq? Then there would only be one choice - a Tarq! That wouldn't be very good strategy at all.

Unless you think that me and BK are both Tarqs. In which case, we'd (presumably) be able to coordinate who each other would arrest. It makes much more sense for 2 Tarqs to choose to arrest 2 good guys and let everyone battle it out over them. Either way, the strategic play for a Tarq is NOT to miss a chance to make an arrest.

[Autumn]

I guess right now I'm hoping to hear from Dodgerus Chickus and Marcus Vaughnus. If all three of the Wealthiest will agree to bidding openly for services we want them to, I would be willing to vote to free Imus, and see if he cooperates. Without the other two's cooperation though, I'm not sure it makes sense to free Imus Thecrewus. I have no particular reason to think he is a traitor though, so I'd rather do the "scared straight" routine and get him to purchase services for us and remain active.

[ImTheCrew]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Crew, you haven't bid on services. You haven't been involved with lawsuits. You've had a potentially powerful position in the game (one of the two wealthiest as of today) and haven't used it to our advantage or communicated with people. There are reasons that Romans - they aren't all Tarqs, right? - are voting for you to be kicked off the cliff.

For better or worse (I think better) Werewolf is a community game, which implies that you work as part of the bigger whole.

Are you going to have an interest in doing this going forward? Are you going to have availability to do so in coming days?

I'm not wild that you are the only choice we have here today (same as yesterday, for all practical purposes) but given that we do have the option what kind of defense can you offer other than "I'm good, KWhit is bad"?

I know i havent used my role to our advantage at all because of the fact i was confused day 0 and day 1 and day 2 i sent my pm to late..... but like i said earlier i will do anything/ buy any services the majority of the people select to prove im good

[Autumn]

I'd like to ask our consuls to arrest Marcus Vaughnus for certain unless we hear from him later today. Perhaps he's just simply not playing, but then again perhaps he's using services as a traitor quietly.

Someone had posted a suggestion of also aresting a poorer member. That seems reasonable to me, to avoid perhaps playing into the traitors' hands. I don't have any strong suspects there though. It seems the people at that end of the spectrum have been fairly active, and while I have suspicions at some, no evidence to execute them by.

I guess I would perhaps arrest Lonestarus Girlus with the other arrest. It could be hurting our cause by taking out these wealthy folks, but I'd prefer to have active, seemingly trustworthy, candidates up there. If they're traitors they'll have a harder time creating an alibi if we know what services they've won.

[ImTheCrew]

dola-

would i come out and say i havent purchased any services, that play sounds like a tarq to me? i just dont understand how two people sent in the same name for one reason because i am UTR and not even the most UTR player if you wanted a wealthy UTR player i think Marcus Vaughnus would be a better choice for atleast one(barkeep & kwhit) of the two to chose

[ImTheCrew]

VOTE NARZICO FOR CONSUL
VOTE HOOPSGUY FOR CONSUL

and of course

FREE IMTHECREW

[Abe Sargent]

I'll be catching up with today in a few minutes.

[Abe Sargent]

Hopefully I won;t do one of those "Build a case against Blade when he's already been day killed and revealed as the seer."

[Autumn]

I'll do my own legwork if I have to, but does anyone have a current vote count?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Hopefully I won;t do one of those "Build a case against Blade when he's already been day killed and revealed as the seer."

Heh.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

And either hoops or CR would be fine by me for the second position. Hoops is always a little scary in a position of power, but if he's good he'd be a great asset in power.

In my catching up, I'd definatly back CR, and not because he voted for me either. He solid, smart, and stock.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Autumn

There are few players I have a good level of trust about, but it makes sense to vote that way for consul. At first blush I would vote for Ironus Headus, who seems to have been very open about the services he's used, and seems to be in the clear. For a second vote I would support either Coffeeus Warlordus, who also seems to have been open and seems trustworthy to me, or possibly Schmidtyus Schmidtyus whose "slipup" seemed genuine and leaned me towards trusting him.

I won't vote yet as I want to see who's interested in running, and what other people's thoughts are, as well as if anyone has managed to turn up any new information through services.

I second Ironhead as a good choice. Let me see what else is ahppening, but i like Ironhead and CR.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Caught up, finally.

Anyway. That was about 25 pages worth of NOTHING.

Vote Narcizo as Consul
Vote Dodgerchick as Consul

And since we don't get to find out what role everyone else is playing when they die, I'd rather have people ALIVE.

Vote to FREE ITC.

Am I alone in continuing to get a bad vibe off N_C?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by KWhit

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

The lawyers can tell what allegiance a player is upon death.

If I were a tarq, with that info out there, I would do everythinhg possible t get two of my guys in the lawyers roles. Do that, and you can dictate the rest of te game.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Am I alone in continuing to get a bad vibe off N_C?

He sort of just...pops in here and there, says a few things, and vanishes.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Am I alone in continuing to get a bad vibe off N_C?

Perhaps.

All I gots is good vibes.

[Abe Sargent]

Vote Chief Rum and Ironhead as Consuls

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

He sort of just...pops in here and there, says a few things, and vanishes.

*pop* "A Few Things." *vanish*

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

He sort of just...pops in here and there, says a few things, and vanishes.

Yes, and he seems to have missed the fact that lawyers can tell what faction a dead guy was in.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

If I were a tarq, with that info out there, I would do everythinhg possible t get two of my guys in the lawyers roles. Do that, and you can dictate the rest of te game.

True. All though it would be a craps shoot, not knowing who the replacement would be.

Ardentus was supposedly bodyguarded the night Swaggus was killed. But interesting that they didn't kill either of the lawyers the next night, going after Alanus instead.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Yes, and he seems to have missed the fact that lawyers can tell what faction a dead guy was in.

That's true. I did miss it.

[Neon_Chaos]

I'm off to bed. Then to work. Then to read MORE and MORE pages of mundane text.

There are times when silence has the loudest voice.

[hoopsguy]

Going to add a couple of more suits against people who I don't know how I measure up against - looking for a little more clarity in the pecking order.

HOOPUS GUYUS SUES SALDANUS LATHUMUS
HOOPUS GUYUS SUES NARCIZUS LISPUS

Again, I'm happy to disclose complete findings that I have so far so others can run the numbers. But I haven't heard any discussion on the pros/cons of doing this since I offered it this morning.

[Autumn]

We still have not heard about some services used yesterday. Pathus Twelvus, I don't remember that you've mentioned who you used the legionnaire to protect? Could you tell us that?

I think taht we also don't know who used the lawyers, one of the horse traders, the political philosopher, the other legionnaire and who else?

I would like to hear from the loyal Senators who won these services and how they used them. Otherwise we have to assume the traitors are winning them.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Autumn

We still have not heard about some services used yesterday. Pathus Twelvus, I don't remember that you've mentioned who you used the legionnaire to protect? Could you tell us that?

Maximus Maximus protected our consul Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus yesterday.

[path12]

Dola, I was not successful in bids for today, so have no services available.

[st.cronin]

Current votes to execute Imus Thecrewus (13 needed to execute):

Ardent (1160), Narcizo (1168), KWhit (1245)

The following Senators have received support for the upcoming Consular Election:

Narcizus Lispus - 5
Chiefus Rumus - 3
Hoopus Guyus - 3
Coffeus Yakus Warlordus - 2
Abeus Anxietus - 1
Dodgeus Erchickus - 1

[Autumn]

Thanks.

[KWhit]

Yikes. Only 3 votes to execute so far.

[Autumn]

I don't want to repeat the experience we had with Bulletus Spongeus, and I hope that we can get Imus Thecrewus to start assisting our cause more. So I am going to vote

VOTE FREE IMUS THECREWUS

I do that with the intent that the freed senator will bid for a service we direct him to tomorrow, and provide evidence that he did so. I hope our other wealthy citizens will also assist in this.

As for consul, I'm a little wary of putting our eggs in one basket and electing a wealthy member. So Hoopus Guyus seems a good choice. I'm not certain of his loyalty but he hasn't given me bad vibes, and is wealth is ordinary. I do not have good feelings about Narcizus and Chiefus, but if either of them was willing to arrest as directed by the Senate, I would be willing to vote for them.

VOTE HOOPUS GUYUS FOR CONSUL

I would like to hear from our current consuls who they are thinking of arresting at this point.

I also think that outside of executing our inactive wealthy members, our best pursuit is to strip them of their wealth. So in that light:

I WILL SUE MARCUS VAUGHNUS
I WILL SUE LONESTARUS GIRLUS
I WILL SUE IMUS THECREWUS

Again, unless they start speaking up and becoming active I think we should either arrest Marcus and Lonestarus, or at least sue their pants off (figuratively).

[Lorena]

Okay, I haven't caught up but this is really irritating. I have not once... NOT ONCE missed a vote or bid for services and putting me high on the suspect list is really frustrating to read. I've been open with who I've hired and what came about.

For God's sakes someone scan me this is making me mad.

[Autumn]

I think if you keep reading you'll see that someone was mixing you up wtih Lonestar Girl

[Chief Rum]

Thanks for the support for consul, guys.

After some thought, I agree with KWhit and Barkeep that it wouldn't be in the wolves' best interest to not have people arrested, but I would still argue it's a strong negative mark against the both of them that we face another one person execution vote.

I am also leaning to believing the supposition that poisoning is indeed the wolves' primary kill weapon, and not linked to a service. I don't think st. cronin would make the mistake of leaving the wolves without an automatic nightly kill option. So that removes my theory of looking at the Day One service purchasers for a possible wolf (although it certainly doesn't clear them).

I see hoops' reasoning and that of others on not wanting to kill wealthy good senators, but as been said ad nauseum, what good is a wealthy senator who does nothing to help us? I don't regret for a second the bulletsponge execution. He did virtually nothing to help us, nor did he even do much to help himself avoid the execution.

I would be willing to give ITC a one day benefit of the doubt except he has failed to use his wealth even once since the game started. Are you kidding me? That's just awful.

EXECUTE IMTHECREW

I won't sleep any less over this either if it happens. If, however, as it looks like, he might live through this, ITC you had better guarantee you will use your wealth tonight and every night going forwatd, you must also contribute to our discussions and vote in every day's vote, whether you're involved or not--or my first arrest vote and execute vote every day will be for you. We can't afford anymore dallying. Either you're in or you're out. If you're in, be in and help us.

I strongly urge the arrest of LoneStarGirl and Marc Vaughan at this point. I would go for LSG first, as she is less wealthy and has a track record of sometimes disappearing like this or being less than helpful for stretches. MV doesn't have a tarck record yet and I still hold out hope he will soon join us here. Much like bullet and ITC, though, if you're wealthy and not helping us, you're against us, and in that case I believe removing them is in the best interest of the Republic.

For consuls, I will vote as follows:

ELECT CHIEF RUM CONSUL
ELECT NARCIZO CONSUL

Narcizo continues to be a voice of reason, and I think he would make an excellent consul. Also, we are often around at the same times, so we can coordinate our efforts.

As for myself, case already stated. This is also the best time for me to be consul, as the weekend is definitely when I can be more available at deadlines (in addition to generally).

I like Autumn's idea of trying to secure services ahead of time, and would recommend we try to get something going there before the deadline.

I will still be around for a little bit, but I will be going to work soon, so if I don't post again, good luck, everyone.

[Grammaticus]

GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS SUES THE FOLLOWING:

Lonstarus Girlus
Marcus Vaughnus
Mustangus
Neonus Chaosus
Imus Theus Crewus
Antmeisterus
Dodgerus Erchickus
Saldanusus
Ironus Headus

Jaywalking is the charge

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Okay, I haven't caught up but this is really irritating. I have not once... NOT ONCE missed a vote or bid for services and putting me high on the suspect list is really frustrating to read. I've been open with who I've hired and what came about.

For God's sakes someone scan me this is making me mad.

Posting on the fly instead of reading the whole thread == not good.

[Grammaticus]

As a poor Senator with no special abilities or roles, I will offer my services as Consul. I would ensure that I take into consideration what the collective group would like to see as far as arrests. Also, I would let you know who is being arrested. I also tend to trust hoops at this point in the game and think he will engage in discussion around arrests, therefore:

VOTE GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS FOR CONSUL

VOTE HOOPUS GUYUS FOR SECOND CONSUL

[st.cronin]

to execute (13 needed) - Ardent (1160), Narcizo (1168), KWhit (1245), Chief Rum (1288)

For Consul (made an error in my earlier post):

Narcizus Lispus - 6
Hoopus Guyus - 5
Chiefus Rumus - 4
Coffeus Yakus Warlordus - 2
Abeus Anxietus - 1
Dodgeus Erchickus - 1
Grammaticus - 1
Ironhead - 1

[Autumn]

I'm going to go ahead and vote for Narzicus for consul. I don't have a good read on the few contenders for that spot, and I suspect at least one of them to be a traitor, but Narzicus seems to have come to many of the same conclusions as me about players, which makes me think either he's loyal and we're both smart, or I have really really bad intuition.

VOTE NARZICUS LISPUS FOR CONSUL

I agree with Narzicus that it seems we have at least one very rich traitor, and so I'm loathe to let ITC go. Yet I have no particular reason to suspect him. I really wish someone had done some scanning yesterday. Is there really no loyal Senators with information to report???

[path12]

I'm going to go with my initial thoughts for consul:

VOTE CHIEFUS RUMUS FOR CONSUL
VOTE COFFEEUS YAKUS WARLORDUS FOR CONSUL

I may change my mind on ITC later, but for now VOTE EXECUTE IMUS THECREWUS

[Autumn]

And please, please, please, Barkeepus and Kayus Whitus, please tell me you both are going to be able to make arrests tonight, and that you will arrest different!! people??? Please?

[Coffee Warlord]

Okay, my girlfriend is gonna be over tonight, so my evening participation is going to be limited. To get my outstanding votes in...

Execute Imus The Crewus

If he's good, he's been of zero use to us. I frankly don't see any reason not to post a vote damning him, despite the fact it looks like he's gonna get off the hook.

Elect Coffeus Yakus Warlordius

As people are willing to support me, I'll support myself.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I agree with Narzicus that it seems we have at least one very rich traitor, and so I'm loathe to let ITC go. Yet I have no particular reason to suspect him. I really wish someone had done some scanning yesterday. Is there really no loyal Senators with information to report???

Agreed. Someone needs to build up a list of Day Two services and list out what we know about who used them and how. I don't know that we have a comprehensive list yet. I would do it myself except I am bout to leave until after the deadline.

We have two lawyers who can do investigating (not at their own behest unfortunately), and I don't know that we have gotten any information out of their Day Two results. Who hired them and what did they have them do?

I still believe good lawyers will remain top targets for wolves. I would be surprised if both ardent and Schmidty survive the night without protection.

[hoopsguy]

I'm in agreement with Anxiety's earlier point on controlling the attorneys. Furthermore, if someone is thinking of hiring an attorney using them to scan the other attorney would make a great deal of sense. I believe there was a "scan one person" benefit to using the attorney, correct?

Other than that, I'm trying to interpret where the "seer" role may come into play in this game. I intuitively thought it would be the philosopher, but Schmidty indicated that he sent that person to prove his innocence, not to verify the innocence of his target.

I know that many of the loyal Romans are asking to be scanned, so just trying to work through how to make this happen.

[Antmeister]

Ok...caught up on some things.

First of all KWhit, where did I say that you didn't vote. I never said that. My problem was that you conveniently had a conditional vote and didn't bother to communicate either person to begin with. What I was implying is that you have improved your chances of only getting 1 person that we could all vote on. It bothers me that most of us can only choose one person to implicate

On top of that, you are heavily going into lawsuits to improve your status while you are serving as consul since you are immune to getting the vote during this period.

Of course, I can be going paranoid, but it seems strange to me that people are putting total trust in people when many of us don't have all the facts how everything works. That is all.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I still believe good lawyers will remain top targets for wolves. I would be surprised if both ardent and Schmidty survive the night without protection.

For what little it is worth, Ardent was my initial thought for who to PM with the "horses". But I was concerned that the lawyers had a "seer" ability, as had already been mentioned. After learning post-deadline that they are able to identify faction info on the dead I see them as a very high-profile candidate. Certainly higher than the consuls, who only serve a two day term.

I wanted to communicate with Alan because 1.) I had a question I wanted to ask about his CW/BS selections while being more direct than I sometimes am with 25 other people reading 2.) I wanted to build on my trust of Alan as a guy who would be around frequently during the day when I am. In hindsight, I wish I had considered his Day 2 lawsuit success when making the decision.

I did not win any services yesterday. And I don't see being in a position to win services all that often coming from the bottom of the pile financially.