Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Flasch186]

stupid...IMO

[wade moore]

I don't get it, what's supposedly so bad?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I don't get it, what's supposedly so bad?

Well, it's still part of the angle imho, about them not showing it. The build up to this was so in depth its hard to explain but the sheer image of Jay Briscoe hanging upside down gushing (he took one for the team there) as Jimmy Jacobs lets him bleed in his mouth is something Paul Heyman would do back in ECW's hey day. The main problem I see people having is without the deaths in wrestling, something like this, which started as a very personal storyline that actually convinced some people it was real (before this incident) made some uncomfortable.

[JonInMiddleGA]

wade - Somewhere up the thread a few pages should be a link to a blog/column/something that explained the some of the backstory behind the angle & how it was being portrayed as a shoot instead of a work.

DeTox is right that it seems kind of hard to explain without reading how they set it up. It's questionable, IMO, because of some of the recent events in real life but right now I'm getting more of a "this is stupid" vibe than a "this is so wrong" vibe. Might be the first serious misstep I can recall from ROH storytelling, and might be poorly timed considering they're now available nationally.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And in news that probably no one cares about, Marcus Cor Von/Monty Brown was released this by WWE.

Poor guy has the look to some extent but can't talk a lick and hasn't improved in the ring one bit in several years. I can't help but think that's related to a lack of work ethic rather than having topped out his potential.

[Desmond]

Can't talk a lick? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

wade - Somewhere up the thread a few pages should be a link to a blog/column/something that explained the some of the backstory behind the angle & how it was being portrayed as a shoot instead of a work.

DeTox is right that it seems kind of hard to explain without reading how they set it up. It's questionable, IMO, because of some of the recent events in real life but right now I'm getting more of a "this is stupid" vibe than a "this is so wrong" vibe. Might be the first serious misstep I can recall from ROH storytelling, and might be poorly timed considering they're now available nationally.

I gotcha. I used to be pretty into WCW then WWE a bit, but have been out of it for awhile and just check this thread now and then - so yeah, i'll have to read up...

[Desmond]

Jimmy Jacobs as a clockwork orange esque emo cult leader with Necro Butcher as his enforcer is so verily awesome.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And in news that probably no one cares about, Marcus Cor Von/Monty Brown was released this by WWE.

Poor guy has the look to some extent but can't talk a lick and hasn't improved in the ring one bit in several years. I can't help but think that's related to a lack of work ethic rather than having topped out his potential.

Part of Brown's problem was that he just didn't wrestle enough to get better. When he was in TNA he made more money in his other job as a personal trainer than he would make working indy dates, so there was no reason for him to get those extra matches in. When he was in WWE, he was working the house shows, but with who? There is no one on the ECW roster that you can really learn how to work from. In WWE period, there isn't really anyone wrestling currently that is gonna teach you alot.

[Desmond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uP-vqklHY

Guys got more natural charisma than most anyone in the biz today.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Desmond

Jimmy Jacobs as a clockwork orange esque emo cult leader with Necro Butcher as his enforcer is so verily awesome.

QFT. Next ROH PPV is in Jersey, you going?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Desmond

Guys got more natural charisma than most anyone in the biz today.

I was so expecting that to be a link to a Colt Cabana video.
Or a Larry Sweeney video.
Or even a Delerious video.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I was so expecting that to be a link to a Colt Cabana video.
Or a Larry Sweeney video.
Or even a Delerious video.

Colt vs Sweeny vs Delirious .. look for it on youtube .. its a Chris Candido tribute match for IWA-MS. Totally fucking priceless.

[DeToxRox]

Not sure on the credibility but a lot of people say this guy is legit ..

-- Widley known wrestling journalist Irvin Muchnick posted a blog on his web site in which he claims to have spoken with a number of WWE sources who say that Randy Orton had recently attempted suicide.




A rumor is swirling that World Wrestling Entertainment star Randy Orton attempted suicide within the last year. Very well-placed wrestling sources tell me that the rumor is true. In the wake of the June murder-suicide of Chris Benoit and the scandal involving scads of WWE performers who ordered steroids and human growth hormone from the Internet gray-market dealer Signature Pharmacy, this is serious stuff.

It’s already clear that WWE’s response to the Signature revelations — generated by the district attorney in Albany, New York, and reported by Sports Illustrated and others — is a joke. Some vague number of the miscreant wrestlers, not named, were “suspended,” but the suspension appears to have consisted of simply being downgraded for a few weeks in TV storylines.

From the same evidence, Randy Orton was not touched at all. That is more than a little strange. Orton’s Signature Pharmacy order marked, at the very least, his second “strike” under WWE’s so-called wellness policy, which would have called for a 60-day (rather than a 30-day) suspension.

The suicide whispers mark the problem as more than a game of “gotcha” or even taste (Orton acquired the gimmick “Legend Killer” after WWE blithely turned Eddie Guerrero’s 2005 death into just another “angle”). It’s a matter of life and death.

Orton, 27, is a third-generation wrestler. He is engaged to marry Samantha Speno, a part-time gymnastics teacher, this fall. Last year Randy and Samantha moved into a country-club estate in High Ridge, Missouri (suburban St. Louis), complete with a gym, a hot tub, and four decks.

Over to you, WWE.

[DeToxRox]

Ditto .. Meltzer apparently mentioned something about it today

[General Mike]

Muchnick was on Figure 4 Daily today, but I haven't downloaded it yet.

[Neon_Chaos]

The suicide whispers mark the problem as more than a game of “gotcha” or even taste (Orton acquired the gimmick “Legend Killer” after WWE blithely turned Eddie Guerrero’s 2005 death into just another “angle”). It’s a matter of life and death.

Uninformed and completely stupid assumption. He donned the "Legend Killer" monicker in 2003, and Eddie died in 2005.

[Desmond]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I was so expecting that to be a link to a Colt Cabana video.
Or a Larry Sweeney video.
Or even a Delerious video.

And those guys are awesome as well. But to say that Brown is bad on the stick is just wrong. Granted he has a tendency to ramble and to lose himself but that's part of his charm.

I forget the name of the show, but the TNA PPV where there was a small fire and they evacuated the building for a short time, and they sent Brown out to just riff for like 5 minutes was one the most awesome things i've ever seen.

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

QFT. Next ROH PPV is in Jersey, you going?

Not likely. Nobody i run with has much interest in it and I just don't dig on going solo. My best "wrestling friend" is a huge HHH mark, so you can see where my problem lies.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Desmond

Granted he has a tendency to ramble and to lose himself but that's part of his charm.

This is definitely one of those cases where we'll have to agree to disagree. There's nothing in his schtick, even when he hits what he intends to say, that does anything to get him over at this point. Most of his promos were barely coherent during at least the last six months of his TNA run, his catchphrases were more like punchlines, and it had reached the point where I thought they might be sending him out more as a comedy act than anything that was supposed to be taken seriously (suspension of disbelief aside).

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I don't get it, what's supposedly so bad?

after watching it, I find myself asking the same question. This is maybe a 4 out of 10 in the "holy crap, I can't believe someone let that happen" scale.

However, the image of Brisco hanging upside down 10 feet above the ring while Jacobs cuts a promo in a long white jacket standing directly under Brisco, bleeding all over Jacobs was pretty inspired - very "Heyman-esque".

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nice to see (although kind of weird) Nash putting Sting over in a segment with the Angles.

Just sounded kind of weird to hear that sort of thing from Nash (who looks like he's lost 50 pounds).

[General Mike]

From Figure 4 Weekly, the week before last:

TNA Something Or Other

I really thought this show was "Hard Justice." Honest to God. Like it matters.

My issue was this show was the issue I have with TNA every month it seems, and that is its great tragedy of having to make life difficult for everyone involved. If you took out all the bullshit and just concentrated on the bell-to-bell in-ring action, this was a really good show. Unfortunately, it's impossible to ignore all the bullshit.

With TNA officially going to two hours on October 4th (9-11 PM on Spike), a punishment if I've ever heard one, I hereby respectfully call for the following people to be fired from TNA, or at least moved to other areas of the company where preferably they have no input whatsoever into the product. This is for the good of the company, and thus the good of the wrestling business.

1. Vince Russo. Gotta go. As in, right now, immediately, before another show is taped. I have been watching Vince Russo's wrestling product since the mid-90s. I watched every single solitary Raw he had input in, I watched every single WCW show he had input in, and I've watched every single TNA show since their inception five years ago, which personally I feel I should be awarded some sort of medal for. Vince Russo's influence on the TNA product, regardless of what anyone says, has stepped up dramatically in the last two months and it is for the worst. Impact has become completely, totally unwatchable 95% of the time. I have determined that it is, no joke, the single worst television show I've ever seen in my life. It fails on every conceivable level. It's not entertaining, it almost never features any good wrestling, the angles often make absolutely no sense, its skits are embarrassing, they haven't created a single star, it is not leading to more people watching the product and it is not leading to more people buying pay-per-views. It is like watching the worst of Russo in WCW all over again, though somehow it doesn't even have the comedy factor that Nitro and Thunder had at the end. It is pure shit.

2. Jeff Jarrett. For not understanding that Vince Russo is a failure after all these years, and for not having learned a goddamn thing from the death of WCW.

3. Dutch Mantell. Probably the lesser of the three evils, but still, one-third of what has to be the most inept booking committee I have ever seen. It is inconceivable that any other three humans on the planet Earth could create a worse wrestling program.

4. David Sahadi. The worst director there has ever been, and this includes Ed Wood who died decades ago and is still revered today because there was a charm to the horrible shit he produced. Sahadi's video packages in WWE were awesome. His promos early on in TNA were awesome. Now, they're all the same. "Dramatic" packages with the guy (Sahadi) who has the Darth Vader voice, over and over again for every feud on every show. As the man in charge of directing TV and live PPV, he sets new standards. He misses finishes (including Pacman Jones actually winning the belts, which takes an immense amount of incompetence, and the finish to the main event), he misses awesome highspots, he provides us with random crowd shots at inappropriate moments, and he switches the cameras with such frequency that it causes nausea. Worse than useless, because at least useless would not be detrimental to the enjoyment of the product.

5. Mike Tenay and Don West. God bless Mike Tenay. He used to be so great. Now, for whatever reason, he's a shill for the company and his constant screaming and talking over people while they're doing interviews hurts the product. When Jim Mitchell is telling us that his son is coming, we don't need Mike Tenay explaining to us what Jim Mitchell is saying AS he's saying it. I guarantee Jim Mitchell is doing a better job. And God bless Don West, but he's worse than a parody of himself. He was endearing early on as the clueless guy with the enthusiasm, but it's been five years. He is portrayed as the single dumbest person on the Earth (he's the only one who was surprised that Karen Angle turned on Joe, for example) and he gets dumber by the show. I realize this is probably not his fault. I realize that both guys are probably directed to do what they do. But the problem is that their credibility is zero right now due to months and years of being portrayed this way, and I don't think that can be easily remedied. Time for a new crew.

That's the list. If a compromise is needed and only half the people are to be fired, I'll be fine with Russo, Jarrett and Dutch. I'm not going to sit here and throw out replacement names and suggestions as people have done in the past. I seriously don't care. As noted, I would be fine with ANYONE IN THE WORLD replacing them. Sonjay Dutt, Tomko and Scott Steiner I guarantee would be a better writing crew, and you can insert any three random names that you'd like. It's not about who could do better, because anyone could. The bottom line is that these three men are proven failures in their roles and thus need to be replaced.

[Flasch186]

who writes that?

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

who writes that?

Bryan Alvarez

[molson]

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=102mkqo&s=2

Anybody catch this on RAW last night? A promo for....something. People with a lot of time on their hands have isolated and slowed down the audio and have apparently heard "break the walls down" twice, so speculation is that it has something to do with Jericho. Also, someone pointed out that that the WWE's 222nd all-time PPV is coming up in a few months (the number 222 is featured prominently)

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by molson

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=102mkqo&s=2

Anybody catch this on RAW last night? A promo for....something. People with a lot of time on their hands have isolated and slowed down the audio and have apparently heard "break the walls down" twice, so speculation is that it has something to do with Jericho. Also, someone pointed out that that the WWE's 222nd all-time PPV is coming up in a few months (the number 222 is featured prominently)

I saw it, but had no clue what to make of it at the time.

Here is some other stuff people saw in it, I guess. I really don't know.

CHAMP_HARD
SMACK_BROUGHT1
RAW_LOWER_DISP
CD_VOLUME4_1 (WWE Music Volume 4 CD - First Track = "Break the Walls Down" )
RAW_WAR_BUMPER
WM99_MATCH
WM00_MATCH
WM99_PROMO
SURVIVOR_RF
LIVEWIRE (A song made by Fozzy)
TALENT_PRE
BAT_ASS_WEEK
JVC_FIX (former sponsor)

[Neon_Chaos]

It's most likely Chris Jericho.

Also saw:

Save_Us.222

[Neon_Chaos]

John Cena Possibly Injured at Raw
Posted by Larry Csonka on 10.02.2007

A possible bad injury for John Cena.

Details are not for certain right now, but John Cena looks to have suffered a possible torn right pectoral muscle during his match against Ken Kennedy. Cena is scheduled to undergo a MRI tomorrow to examine the severity of the injury. If he has a torn pectoral, he could be gone for several months to recover. The injury appeared to happen during a hip toss on Kennedy that ended oddly with Kennedy landing on top of Cena. Cena then nailed an arm drag and the two ended up in the corner. Cena backed up to the opposite corner and was obviously favoring his arm immediately. Cena did go through with the after match angle with Randy Orton while in severe pain.

Cena is scheduled to main event the No Mercy PPV against Randy Orton.

Credit: Pwinsider.com

Update on John Cena
Posted by Larry Csonka on 10.02.2007

It still isn’t looking good.

The WWE is proceeding as if John Cena does indeed have a right pectoral tear. There is a ton of concern internally as Cena has been the man for the last year, and many look at him as the "MVP" of the company. Cena is currently headed to Birmingham, Alabama to have his injury examined and diagnosed by Dr. James Andrews. After Dr. Andrews makes the final diagnosis, WWE will move on from there with their Sunday No Mercy PPV plans, which are now in jeopardy.

Credit: Pwinsider.com

BAM.

[Maple Leafs]

Wow, yet another WWE performer suffers a serious muscle tear. They have the worst luck with that stuff.

[Neon_Chaos]

Any chance they hotshot Kennedy as a face? :P

Randy Orton vs. MISSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTEEEERRRRRRRR KENNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Hopefully. Lol.

[Maple Leafs]

In the last month, Kennedy has:
- embarassed the company by speaking out about there being no steroid problem, then getting busted for steroids
- been suspended, ruining their big "Mr. McMahon's son" angle
- injured their biggest draw in his first match back by blowing a simple hip toss spot

I'm guessing they don't really want to boost him into the main event right now.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

In the last month, Kennedy has:
- embarassed the company by speaking out about there being no steroid problem, then getting busted for steroids
- been suspended, ruining their big "Mr. McMahon's son" angle
- injured their biggest draw in his first match back by blowing a simple hip toss spot

I'm guessing they don't really want to boost him into the main event right now.

KENNEDY!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I'm guessing they don't really want to boost him into the main event right now.

Yet, in spite of all those things, he's still the most elevatable guy on the roster I can think of at the moment.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yet, in spite of all those things, he's still the most elevatable guy on the roster I can think of at the moment.

Aside from Triple H, Kennedy is the only guy capable of being hotshotted into the main event. Of course, the H's are tied up with the Umaga match.

Unless they decide to move Rey Mysterio or The Undertaker from Smackdown to RAW.

OR

They could bring back Jericho waaaaay too early.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

They could bring back Jericho waaaaay too early.

Current rumors seem to be pointing to this Sunday.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

KENNEDY!

KEEEEEEEEEEN-NEEEEEEEEEEE-DYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[molson]

The one positive the WWE has is the advertised gimmick for the Orton/Cena main event, and the nature of the feud. Even if he's going to be out for a while, it might be possible that like Taker a few months ago, he could gut out one hardcore brawl-type match to drop the title to Orton. If word gets out on the internet, you might even pop a better buyrate with the smarks paying to see him lose.

The much-maligned brand split has actually helped the company a ton though these injuries. Pre-brand split, the company would usually have only around 3-4 main eventers at a time that could main event PPVs. With that split, that number's more like 8-9 now, even with the injuries.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Aside from Triple H, Kennedy is the only guy capable of being hotshotted into the main event. Of course, the H's are tied up with the Umaga match.

I would assume Cena will be in the PPV. Even if he's extremely limited, they have to let him get in there unless he's risking permanent damage.

As for who the next main eventer could be, why not Jeff Hardy? I've never been a huge fan, but he gets a huge pop every time he shows up. If he's clean again (big if, I guess) he'd be a guy who could have a short run to freshen things up.

[DeToxRox]

Hes being stripped of the title at No Mercy and a new Main Event will take place/

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Hes being stripped of the title at No Mercy and a new Main Event will take place/

Shit. New main event meaning Orton v. someone else, or a battle royal or something?

[molson]

Maybe they'll do one of those 6-ways like at Judgement Day. Just throw in the HHH/Umaga match into that, maybe fly in Mick Foley again.

Edit: WWE says he's gone 6-8 months.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by molson

Shit. New main event meaning Orton v. someone else, or a battle royal or something?

No one knows and truthfully I doubt WWE knows.

Also, Edge is officially announced to return at Survivor Series.

[DeToxRox]

A battle royal similiar to when Angle won the World Title last year makes senses with someone like Jericho or even a guy from SD like Matt Hardy coming over to win it.

[molson]

PWTorch says the rumor is Orton v. HHH v. Umaga, which makes a lot of sense.

I think Orton ends up with it, and that was the plan for No Mercy even before Cena got injured.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by molson

PWTorch says the rumor is Orton v. HHH v. Umaga, which makes a lot of sense.

I think Orton ends up with it, and that was the plan for No Mercy even before Cena got injured.

And once Orton gets it, he'll lose it to Triple H by Royal Rumble

[Neon_Chaos]

The good thing about this is that they could play up Orton absolutely destroying John Cena with the steel steps last night. Momentum and the ball is now in Orton's hands.

[Maple Leafs]

I assume they'll play this up as Cena getting hurt from the Orton attack, not from throwing a hip toss in the Kennedy match.

If so, that actually gives them a decent program for his return that could make them some money.

[Deattribution]

I think they should change Kennedy's finisher to a hiptoss and name it The Destroyer.

[Neon_Chaos]

Vinnie Mac just vacated the WWE title on ECW. They showed how Orton dismantled Cena, and announced that he would be gone for 6 months to a year (big boos from the crowd).

McMahon says that a new champion will be decided at No Mercy and history will be made.

Interesting.

[DeToxRox]

WPXI in Pittsburgh is reporting that TNA champion Kurt Angle was arrested last Friday in Moon Township, PA on a DUI charge. After getting a report of an erratic driver that matched Angle and his vehicle, police went to his home. The story stated that Angle admitted driving his car home from a local bar. They said that Angle failed a field sobriety test but refused a blood test. Angle was the charged with driving under the influence and careless driving.