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Old 07-19-2011, 05:19 PM   #1251
DaddyTorgo
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Thanks Jackal!

Ripped through my workout today, and even mentioned to my (opinionated) gym-owner (who has been hounding me to hit the weights again) that it was just about time to get back on them.

He's a chill dude. Ripped lil asian guy - bout as tall as ohhh...my shoulder maybe?
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Old 07-19-2011, 05:29 PM   #1252
The Jackal
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I need to get back to lifting some weights, will have to invest in a kettle bell or dumbell or both sometime soon. Gotta rebuild that shoulder/neck strength.

Weight is still hovering between 187-190, had another weekend of traveling/picnic food. And today I've been making guiness braised lamb shanks .. so I'll be better starting tomorrow.
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:55 PM   #1253
DaddyTorgo
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183.2 this morning. Well behaved today so far, so I should be into the 182s in the morning.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:05 AM   #1254
DaddyTorgo
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182.4 (-80)

Woohoo! Go me!! Seems kind of...unreal.

Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 07-22-2011 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:32 AM   #1255
The Jackal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo View Post
182.4 (-80)

Woohoo! Go me!! Seems kind of...unreal.



How long have you been working at it? Fantastic achievement. Good example set for others!
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:23 AM   #1256
DaddyTorgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jackal View Post


How long have you been working at it? Fantastic achievement. Good example set for others!

Since September of last year. 10 months.

10 months...80 pounds. 8lbs per month = 2lbs per week = perfect amount per week

Roughly
26,697,600 seconds
444,960 minutes
7416 hours

I still want to shave a couple pounds off so that when I build muscle and tighten my body up I don't end up closer to 190, but still am solidly in the 180's, but this is really a huge transformation for me, and I can't tell you how awesome it is. NONE of my old clothes fit. Literally. I have a pile of all the clothes in my drawers that I have washed and am about to box up and bring to Goodwill/the homeless shelter/whatever. And I have to take everything out of my closet and do the same. I've got literally

9 pairs of boxers
9 undershirts
workout gear (6 shirts, 6 shorts, 6 boxers)
1 suit
5 dress shirts
5-6 new polo shirts (don't have an exact count)
5 pairs of shorts
1 pair of khakhis
2 long-sleeve button down shirts (casual dress shirts)
2 short-sleeve button-down shirts
1 pair of jeans

left that fit.

Spent a couple hundred bucks at Kohls the other day on the new summer clothes...will need to do the same come the fall. Whole new wardrobe...whole new me. It's freakin freaky - yet at the same time very awesome. To be able to go into the stores and not "DREAD" having to go shopping, or to find the special section with limited choices.

I'm so happy!! Now to maintain...which I WILL do!
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:25 AM   #1257
The Jackal
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I do enjoy me some statistics. Be proud, be very proud!
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:01 PM   #1258
rowech
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I remain unbelievably frustrated at my weight. Same weight for about three months now. (248) Tried to vary it up from just running so I've been doing:

10-15 minutes on bike (level 11) to warmup...burns between 100-150 calories
About 45 minutes of weight-lifting
30 minutes on ellipcial machine (level 11) to finish off...burns around 500-550 calories

I do that three days a week and then one day a week I run a 10K.

Eating wise:

Breakfast is:

Basic 4 cereal with Almond milk OR a sausage/egg muffin

Lunch is:

Sandwich of some sort -- usually turkey/ham but sometimes PB&J
Pretzels
Small bag of fruit snacks

Dinner is:

Salad with small amount of cheese, fat-free dressing, cucumbers
Chicken, Pork, or Steak -- grilled
Baked potato or a whole wheat pasta
Some sort of vegetable -- usually green beans, asparagus, or corn
1 can of coke zero

Snacks:

Usually a serving of pudding in the evening and a granola bar in the afternoon.

Drink about 120 ounces of water throughout the day.

By my calculations I should be losing at least a pound a week and it ain't happening. I would try and work out another day during the week but I've found that if I work out every day of the week, I will gain weight no matter what else I do.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:15 PM   #1259
The Jackal
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I'm no expert or anything but I'd speak with a doctor and/or nutritionist. I think there are several factors that can prevent people from losing weight when proper diet/exercise is being used. Stuff like hormonal imbalance, thyroid issues, stress/sleeping habits. Had a blood test anytime recently? There's probably some useful tools on sites like webmd in relation to this, or maybe there are some people who actually know what they're talking about around here.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:43 PM   #1260
rowech
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Originally Posted by The Jackal View Post
I'm no expert or anything but I'd speak with a doctor and/or nutritionist. I think there are several factors that can prevent people from losing weight when proper diet/exercise is being used. Stuff like hormonal imbalance, thyroid issues, stress/sleeping habits. Had a blood test anytime recently? There's probably some useful tools on sites like webmd in relation to this, or maybe there are some people who actually know what they're talking about around here.

I do have a thyroid issue that I take a daily pill for.
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:04 AM   #1261
DaddyTorgo
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Geez rowech - that's frustrating. Hmm...will have to think on that.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:31 PM   #1262
Dodgerchick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo View Post
182.4 (-80)

Woohoo! Go me!! Seems kind of...unreal.

Holy shit, DT!!!!!!! Freaking awesome, very VERY proud of you!
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:37 PM   #1263
Dodgerchick
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Ack, that's so frustrating rowech. I dunno, I'm at a loss, looks like you're exercising, drinking plenty of fluids, and eating what you're supposed to. The only thing I can think of is upping the serving for fruits and veggies maybe? Dunno, good luck.
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:22 PM   #1264
DaddyTorgo
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:25 PM   #1265
DaddyTorgo
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Yeah - talk to a doctor/nutrionist rowech, because I'm not sure what's up with that. Unless you're dipping your sandwich in mayo and eating 1lb steaks...
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Old 07-24-2011, 02:12 PM   #1266
Dodgerchick
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7/10/2011 -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgerchick View Post
189.8

Haven't been under 190 since December. Im gonna go shopping for a few outfits after every 20 lb loss, I have 10 lbs to go.

7/23/2011 - 183.8

!!!! wow, I've lost 15 lbs. total. Super cool.
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Old 07-24-2011, 02:16 PM   #1267
Dodgerchick
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Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo View Post



There's something missing from this video....

YOU!!

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Old 07-24-2011, 03:57 PM   #1268
DaddyTorgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgerchick View Post
7/10/2011 -

7/23/2011 - 183.8

!!!! wow, I've lost 15 lbs. total. Super cool.
Awesome!!!! Go you!!!!

See - you can do it too!!!
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Old 07-24-2011, 03:58 PM   #1269
DaddyTorgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgerchick View Post
There's something missing from this video....

YOU!!


LMAO - that's cuz I was the one taking it. I do need to get an "after" shot for y'all though.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:26 AM   #1270
hoopsguy
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Down a pound over the last week, to 174.5.

Had a stretch where the scale was reporting the exact same weight - 175.5 - for five days in a row. Stuff like that leaves me extremely skeptical about the quality of the scale.

Also, we're in the middle of a kitchen (plus family room) remodel, which meant a couple of bad things in terms of exercise:
1.) Treadmill is packed in the garage with a ton of other items (unusable)
2.) There is not enough space in the living room to do an exercise video, thanks to stuff being piled in there
3.) We had a major, major heat wave roll through this week, sapping any motivation I had to go running outdoors when I got home from work
4.) Grilling in that heat wasn't too appealing either, so for a few nights we ate out when I would normally be at home having a reasonable dinner
5.) We were out of town over the weekend, driving 5 hours to Iowa and staying at a hotel while there

Net result is that I didn't get any exercise, didn't eat as well as I normally would, and drank more than I normally would (company outing + desire for beer) and still managed to lose a pound. Hoping I can add another 1-2 this week when life starts to return to normal again. I would very much like to be 172-something at the end of month weigh-in.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:41 AM   #1271
BYU 14
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Going to start posting here after stepping on the scale this morning. With the restrictions to aerobic activity after blowing my achilles in March I am now at 215. At the time I was hurt I was under 205 and working to get down to 195 as a competition weight for BJJ.

195 will still be my target and I want to get there by the time I resume training which should be October or November, but October 1st will be my target date. Still limited in aerobic activity to bike riding and swimming. I started riding outside, but it is too hot here now so I am thinking about getting a stationary bike and mixing that with water some swimming. I have already been doing strength training for over a month, but that isn't going to shed pounds without some cardio in there.

Lastly tighten up the weekend diet. I typically eat good all week, with the only slip being that I sometimes eat a late dinner. Weekends I eat too much, so eliminating that and nothing but protein shakes after 6 pm during the week will be the focus on the diet side.
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:11 PM   #1272
DaddyTorgo
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Was down as low as 180.4 the other day, but didn't work out yesterday due to having a friend in town and being very busy, so back up to 182 today. Going to work out both days this weekend though.

Seem to be stable in the lower 180's, which is nice.
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:59 PM   #1273
hoopsguy
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I've been sitting in the 175 range all week, still haven't broken under 174.

I've also decided that I need something new to mix into the fitness portion of my routine, especially since my house still is a mess with the kitchen upgrade (to be back next week). So I'm going to start working on the 100 pushup challenge. I figure that will help with tightening up my chest muscles. Now that I'm loosing inches on my waist I want to start looking more fit throughout my body ... I took some pictures for work earlier this month and wasn't happy with how I looked (too saggy) even after losing the 15 pounds of weight.

The pushups is also a good quick workout that I should be able to easily mix in around treadmill/running ... no reason to make excuses about not having 10 minutes for pushups 3 times per week. No meaningful space requirements ... I can do these in any of the upstairs rooms in our house where there isn't ongoing construction. Just wish I had thought of this two weeks ago.

Finally, I've started a spreadsheet for meals and exercise. I know that I should have done this weeks (months?) ago, but I'm expecting that these last 10 pounds are going to be harder than the first 13-14 were and that I'll need a bit more discipline overall. This month hasn't been terrible, but I've definitely had a few more slips than I should have in terms of diet.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:43 PM   #1274
DaddyTorgo
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180.0 this morning. Now today's a no-workout day due to circumstances (was going to be a workout day since I took my day off earlier in the week, but had work to do this afternoon and no clean workout clothes this morning when I had time), so I'll probably blip-up a little, but to be realistically looking at being sub-180 by Weds/Thurs is an awesome feeling.
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:36 AM   #1275
hoopsguy
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174.1 this morning, down 2.1 from this time last month.

The scale had been stuck on 174.9 for the past week, so I'm glad that it moved off that number and that it moved in the right direction. I really need to get a new scale that I trust at some point, but I'm having a hard time justifying any new expenses in the wake of the kitchen remodel (now done).

All in all, I'll take 2 pounds this month with the constant disruptions of the last couple of weeks. I'm sure I could have been down another pound or so if I had either more discipline (diet wavered a few times) or more regular exercise while going through the move.

9.1 pounds to go for goal weight, 7 months to do it to reach it (and sustain it) by my 40th birthday.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:11 AM   #1276
DaddyTorgo
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Keep this thread goin!!

180.0 again this morning. Took me a couple days to work back off the weekend-weight and the extra day off I took.

Real happy though, because I had a "carby" dinner last night - 3/4 cup of pasta (170 calories), 1/2 cup of pasta sauce (60 calories), cheese on top of it, and a grocery store dinner roll (fuckall knows how many hundred calories - for sure a couple hundred). So the fact that I had a "carby" dinner like that and still managed to drop yesterday is nice (weighed myself at the very end of the day and I was actually only 0.2lbs heavier than I was in the morning, which is AWESOME).

Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 08-03-2011 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:12 AM   #1277
Dodgerchick
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I agree DT, let's keep this thread going!

I haven't weighed myself in a week and a half so I've no idea how much I weigh. With my birthday and all, I'm sure I'm about the same, maybe a few more lbs.. dunno. I have been going to the gym though... Zumba yesterday and Saturday. I seriously need to work in some other kind of workout but Zumba is seriously addicting. Every instructor has something I like in their classes whether it's pushups, or yoga moves, or awesome music.. always something. I might rotate different instructors to different weeks. I'm very thankful for my friend who pushes me to lift weights.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:23 PM   #1278
corbes
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I'll help keep the thread going. I weighed in recently at the annual exam at 173, which was surprising to me. The goal is 150 +/- 5 pounds. 155 would be okay, but 145 would be in the range of where I was at my best in college, when I was running quite a bit. (135-140 was the actual weight then but that was more than a decade ago. Let's be real.)

I'm 31 now with a one-year old daughter. Don't have a lot of extra time to add in extra exercise on account of the need to spend most of the available time walking our dog. I currently do about a 40-minute walk in the morning with my daughter in the hiking backpack and another 30-minute walk in the evening with the stroller. And I eat mostly well. Mostly vegetarian, almost every meal is home cooked, and almost entirely local produce. Most of the weight loss will need to come from portion control--a concept with which I struggle, because I like food. Also will come from avoiding afternoon snacks (mostly pretzels or something else salty) which usually serve the purpose of emotional comfort rather than hunger.

Also my weight seems to swing quite a bit over the course of the day. Perhaps other of you understand this better than I do. I don't have regular access to a scale, but last weekend on vacation I did, and over the course of the weekend my weight ranged between 159.8 and 169. I think it mostly has to do with water. The low weight was right after a round of golf where it was real hot and I didn't have enough water.

So, to recap. Starting point was 173. Target is 150. Right now (about one month in) I think I am around 168 more or less.

Congrats to those who have seen great success in this thread. It's an inspiration!
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:04 PM   #1279
DaddyTorgo
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Sounds good corbes.

Portion control is difficult - but it's definitely like...a mental thing, a willpower thing. Just be strict with yourself, ya know? It gets easier as you go along with it, shrinking your stomach down.

Weight can definitely vary based on hydration and what you eat and all, even over the course of a couple days (and particularly within a day). You're generally at your most-accurate weight first thing in the morning.

I'm sure you can do it - fortunately it sounds like your diet is pretty good already, so that definitely helps.

Emotional-eating used to be my biggest fault, by about a factor of a billion. It just takes willpower. And maybe finding yourself tiny little treats so that you don't cut yourself off 100% kinda, ya know?
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:36 PM   #1280
corbes
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Thanks, DT. And I definitely agree with that last idea. One of my first decisions has been to try to eat raisins or something like that instead of pretzels or chips and salsa for the afternoon snack. I think I definitely feel better physically as a result even though I still emotionally crave the saltier and more carb-loaded snacks. The afternoon comfort snack is something that has been a part of my routine for probably twenty years now. It's time to find a healthier alternative.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:26 PM   #1281
hoopsguy
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I rotate between raisins and carrots as my healthy snacks when I'm at home. I don't do as well when I get a food craving at work but those two have been good options around the house.

Last edited by hoopsguy : 08-03-2011 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 08-06-2011, 04:55 PM   #1282
DaddyTorgo
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Maintaining at 180.0, which is great in the short-term.

Went a bit crazy at the store last night...2lbs of strawberries, 3lbs of grapes, and a bag of clementines. Yum.
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:06 PM   #1283
hoopsguy
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I got down to 173.2 earlier in the week, which is the lowest I've been in about 4 years. But back around 175 today ... at this point, I'm just happy to see some day-to-day fluctuations because that means my wonky scale is "working".

All in all, getting the spreadsheet going is forcing better dieting accountability. Ditto the workouts, although I've only been doing the push-ups this week. I'll have my treadmill back and my living room back (where DVD is at) next week, so I'll be out of good excuses for not getting more exercise.
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:05 AM   #1284
Dodgerchick
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7/23/2011 - 183.8
8/7/2011 - 186.2


I figured this would happen. Combination of birthday, lunch with a friend at a Chinese Buffet and they didn't have very good options. Yesterday we had a work lunch and they didn't have the healthiest options either. I should have done with most of my co-workers did and not go at all. Oh well. I had actually gone up to 189 but went back down.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:58 PM   #1285
DaddyTorgo
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Woo! 179.6 this morning!

Will prolly bounce up tomorrow since it's my day off from exercise today...but still...yay!

Went to the grocery store friday night...3lbs of grapes, 2lbs of strawberries, and 1 bag of clementines.

Proceeded to eat maybe 1lb of grapes and 1lb of strawberries since then. haha

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Old 08-07-2011, 04:58 PM   #1286
DaddyTorgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgerchick View Post
7/23/2011 - 183.8
8/7/2011 - 186.2


I figured this would happen. Combination of birthday, lunch with a friend at a Chinese Buffet and they didn't have very good options. Yesterday we had a work lunch and they didn't have the healthiest options either. I should have done with most of my co-workers did and not go at all. Oh well. I had actually gone up to 189 but went back down.

Hate that. I always just try to like...portion control myself to death in those instances...just nibble a little here and there.
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:09 AM   #1287
DaddyTorgo
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180-flat this morning.

Nice to see recovery from Sunday (my "fatty day") done by Tuesday morning. Also nice to see myself holding right around 180 in the short-term.

Figure I can still drop a couple more pounds before the weight-lifting starts.

Might just be my imagination, but when I woke up this morning I definitely felt like my stomach-fat (which there's still a lil bit of) had gone down a bit. That's really the last thing I want to like...work on, so I'm pretty psyched about at least (feeling) that.
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:20 AM   #1288
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Woo! 179.6 this morning!

Will prolly bounce up tomorrow since it's my day off from exercise today...but still...yay!

Went to the grocery store friday night...3lbs of grapes, 2lbs of strawberries, and 1 bag of clementines.

Proceeded to eat maybe 1lb of grapes and 1lb of strawberries since then. haha

Awesome DT!!!! Gratz on losing 80!!!

I haven't visited in a couple of weeks (been on the Sweat Dynasty thread), but I'm hanging out at 206 which is down a couple of pounds in the last couple of weeks.
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:31 AM   #1289
BYU 14
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07/25/11 - 215
This morning - 211.8

Was hoping to get to 210 by now, but will take it considering I can still only do light impact cardio and low weight leg work. Right now walking/pool aerobics and bowflex make up my exercise regimen, hoping to be cleared for high impact aerobic stuff by September 1st.

Cut the diet this week to green drinks (spinach, broccoli, collard greens blended with sugar free cranberry juice) and protein shakes for breakfast and lunch, a salad with tuna for dinner and snacks of fresh fruit midmorning and mid afternoon.

The big test will be going to a Diamondbacks game Thursday and not having a beer.....
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:04 PM   #1290
DaddyTorgo
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Awesome DT!!!! Gratz on losing 80!!!

I haven't visited in a couple of weeks (been on the Sweat Dynasty thread), but I'm hanging out at 206 which is down a couple of pounds in the last couple of weeks.

83 now (not that I'm counting...haha)

Booo...this is a better thread!!!

Anyways - way to go for you too!
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:06 PM   #1291
DaddyTorgo
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Originally Posted by BYU 14 View Post
07/25/11 - 215
This morning - 211.8

Was hoping to get to 210 by now, but will take it considering I can still only do light impact cardio and low weight leg work. Right now walking/pool aerobics and bowflex make up my exercise regimen, hoping to be cleared for high impact aerobic stuff by September 1st.

Cut the diet this week to green drinks (spinach, broccoli, collard greens blended with sugar free cranberry juice) and protein shakes for breakfast and lunch, a salad with tuna for dinner and snacks of fresh fruit midmorning and mid afternoon.

The big test will be going to a Diamondbacks game Thursday and not having a beer.....

Let yourself have one beer at the game...just be aware of what you're eating at the same time, and the fact that alcohol slows down your metabolism. You've got to give yourself some little "cheats" or you go crazy.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:06 PM   #1292
BYU 14
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Let yourself have one beer at the game...just be aware of what you're eating at the same time, and the fact that alcohol slows down your metabolism. You've got to give yourself some little "cheats" or you go crazy.

Oh I do cheat, LOL. I wanted to stick hard and fast to this routine for at least a week though.......But I suppose a light beer would be OK, thanks for intervening and getting me straight

I am a big advocate of a cheat day, my biggest issue has always been portions on that day. I could get away with it when I was at full activity level, but it has hurt me since the Achilles injury, so it will actually be good to get that portion control down now so I can still enjoy and not over indulge.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:44 AM   #1293
DaddyTorgo
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179.0 - WOO!!!
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:31 AM   #1294
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179.0 - WOO!!!

Yet another barrier broken for DT! Again, gratz!

205 for me this morning. So now I'm down to my pre-cruise weight again. I'd like to drop another couple of pounds before my 5k next weekend and then break through that 200 barrier shortly thereafter.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:56 AM   #1295
DaddyTorgo
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Yet another barrier broken for DT! Again, gratz!

205 for me this morning. So now I'm down to my pre-cruise weight again. I'd like to drop another couple of pounds before my 5k next weekend and then break through that 200 barrier shortly thereafter.

Thanks. I think that's basically my last barrier FYI...now I'm sort of more on the "maintain and build some muscle mass and tighten up my last lil bit of belly-fat" phase.

Really if I celebrate now it's going to be celebrating maintaining and not seeing a rise in things (although to be fair I haven't changed my diet at all yet).

Glad to hear you're back to the pre-cruise weight - was that a struggle? I'm sure you'll be through 200 before you know it man.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:12 AM   #1296
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Thanks. I think that's basically my last barrier FYI...now I'm sort of more on the "maintain and build some muscle mass and tighten up my last lil bit of belly-fat" phase.

Really if I celebrate now it's going to be celebrating maintaining and not seeing a rise in things (although to be fair I haven't changed my diet at all yet).

Glad to hear you're back to the pre-cruise weight - was that a struggle? I'm sure you'll be through 200 before you know it man.

Again, gratz!

Was it a struggle? Yeah, a bit.

My diet was tossed off on the cruise, not just with what I ate, but with how much. You train your body to do certain things and eating late, in large quantities and eating deserts on the cruise didn't do me any favors. The motivation/willpower wasn't there to correct those bad habits as soon as I got back home. So I found myself snacking far too much after dinner and eating too much of the wrong kinds of stuff at the wrong times.

It was only the 5k that made me really start watching the diet again. The lighter you are, the faster you run. Now that I'm back into the routine and have the proper motivation, the weight is coming back off.

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Old 08-11-2011, 04:38 PM   #1297
DaddyTorgo
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Again, gratz!

Was it a struggle? Yeah, a bit.

My diet was tossed off on the cruise, not just with what I ate, but with how much. You train your body to do certain things and eating late, in large quantities and eating deserts on the cruise didn't do me any favors. The motivation/willpower wasn't there to correct those bad habits as soon as I got back home. So I found myself snacking far too much after dinner and eating too much of the wrong kinds of stuff at the wrong times.

It was only the 5k that made me really start watching the diet again. The lighter you are, the faster you run. Now that I'm back into the routine and have the proper motivation, the weight is coming back off.

Woohooo for weight coming off!!!!
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:33 PM   #1298
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Does anyone feel educated well enough to answer the question if you can workout too hard to lose fat/weight?
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:13 AM   #1299
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Does anyone feel educated well enough to answer the question if you can workout too hard to lose fat/weight?

I do...and the answer is no. If you're weightlifting, you may not lose weight because you're adding massive muscle mass, but you will see a noticeable change in your fat/muscle content. And that's the worst case scenario - there's really no way to exercise "too much" so that fat doesn't burn off.

But remember that for most people, 2/3rds of weight loss is diet and not exercise. Unless you have a super-active job (i.e., park ranger), you can work your ass off for an hour a day and not lose weight because your diet sucks. Even the most strenuous workout programs aren't going to burn more than 1,000 calories/hr (and that's almost impossible) and 1 pound is 3,500 calories, so workouts alone can plateau weight relatively quickly.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:32 PM   #1300
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But poor rowech's diet isn't out of control - right rowech?
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