POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[NobodyHere]

Will there be beer tents?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh that's 100% absolutely still the case.

The amount of misreporting done to support the hysteria was absurd. Get your head cut off in a car crash, test positive later, you too can be a "covid death."

This was covered plenty of times in mainstream media, link just from the first example I came to

The most demonstrable thing coming from Covid was that trusting the health care profession to be factually or intellectually honest is a fool's errand. Is there such a thing as "accessory to crimes against humanity"? If so, there's an awful lot of them who should be charged for aiding & abetting that modern day Mengele known as Fauci.

This has been thoroughly looked into and is false. It largely stems from confusion on how coroners use death certificates amd how deaths are reported.

Here's a great article that explains it:

John Hopkins COVID study: Car crash deaths not reported as COVID | wusa9.com

Fauci definitely had some missteps along the way but we were also in uncharted territory and dealing with something we were wholly unprepared for.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Okay, hard to believe but if true, crisis averted. Let a going senile Joe run (with a good supporting cast

He’s trailing in virtually every poll in every swing state. His only path to victory is the blue wall a PA and Michigan are trending down. His gaffes are going to continue to dominate the news cycle

If a demented feeble old man is doing this well against Trump in national polls imagine what anyone with a pulse would do.

Let’s be honest. Most people aren’t voting for Joe they are voting against Trump.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Atocep

John Hopkins COVID study: Car crash deaths not reported as COVID | wusa9.com

FFS, USA9.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This has been thoroughly looked into and is false. It largely stems from confusion on how coroners use death certificates amd how deaths are reported.

Here's a great article that explains it:

John Hopkins COVID study: Car crash deaths not reported as COVID | wusa9.com

Fauci definitely had some missteps along the way but we were also in uncharted territory and dealing with something we were wholly unprepared for.

The amount of facepalming I do when I read certain posts. And then to double-down by basically wanting people executed for your own misunderstanding of the facts... sheesh.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The amount of facepalming I do when I read certain posts. And then to double-down by basically wanting people executed for your own misunderstanding of the facts... sheesh.

The venn diagram of people that think no one else can do their job but believe they know more about these things than medical professionals is one circle.

[GrantDawg]

Joe Biden has renounced his claim and will head north to take the black

— Normal Adam (@adprock) July 11, 2024

[Ksyrup]

One of the Bulwark people has a column today about their observation of how many middle-aged men who support Trump have "Divorced Dude Energy," and then they saw a report that Trump does, in fact, hold a huge lead among divorced men - 56% versus 42% of divorced women, and that only 42% of divorced men identify as Democrats.

Interesting stuff. Sometimes anecdotal evidence bears itself out.

[Lathum]

The DOW cracked 40K today. 4 years ago it was at 25K but again lets vote for the felon

[Jas_lov]

And apparently a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. Good day for Joe

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

And apparently a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. Good day for Joe

Agreed to a framework. Don't get too excited. It is like Lucy with the football.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The DOW cracked 40K today. 4 years ago it was at 25K but again lets vote for the felon

Nice rebound for NASDAQ so far too

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The DOW cracked 40K today. 4 years ago it was at 25K but again lets vote for the felon

FWIW

S&P 500 Performance by President | MacroTrends

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The DOW cracked 40K today. 4 years ago it was at 25K but again lets vote for the felon

Really good news for the wealthiest people in the country but not sure how that helps your average American much on a daily basis.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Really good news for the wealthiest people in the country but not sure how that helps your average American much on a daily basis.

It's good for anyone with a 401k, people expecting a pension, or small time investors like myself

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Let’s be honest. Most people aren’t voting for Joe they are voting against Trump.

This is why I don't understand the desire to keep him on the ticket. I get Joe wants the power, Jill wants her photoshoots, and his staff like running the country since Joe can't. But what's in it for everyone else?

Even if you like Joe and want him to win, you can't believe he is going to serve out those 4 years. Heck, I'd be astonished if he could make it another year without being forced to step down. So if it's going to end up with Kamala as President anyway, why not just have her be the nominee? She can give a speech and carry on a conversation.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

It's good for anyone with a 401k or small time investors like myself.

It's good for them in 30 years when they retire I guess. And that's assuming that the President has any real control over the markets. Just feels weird when Democrats boast about it because the demographic that it plays to isn't the one you're trying to persuade to vote for you.

Seems like promoting things like employment rate, real wages, cost of goods/services/schools, etc would be much better for the average person. Some of the numbers look really good on those and should be touted if the President was mentally capable of doing that. I just don't think most people have a deep connection to the DJIA and it makes politicians look out of touch.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Really good news for the wealthiest people in the country but not sure how that helps your average American much on a daily basis.

I do it more because Trump and his maga clowns constantly used it as a barometer for his success.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The venn diagram of people that think no one else can do their job but believe they know more about these things than medical professionals is one circle.

This is the part where I need to push back in the other direction. The medical profession writ large has not served America well in a number of areas going back well before Covid (opioid epidemic, bad dietary advice for decades/generations, overprescription of antibioitics to name a few) and there were some just plain wrong/false/exaggerated things that were said and done during the pandemic, not all of which are explainable by the 'look, it was a crisis and we were all just figuring things out' aspect. There's a whole lot of CYA that went on, and there was a lot of misinformation on the hysteria side - not as much as on the denial side, but still an awful freaking lot of it.

So while I'm not with Jon and I don't think I know more than the medical profession, just blind faith in whatever the medical experts say isn't wise either. The part that really confuses me is how we're supposed to be cynical about how 'Wall Street' or 'mega-CEOs' or Big Oil or whoever the bugaboo of the moment is and what they tell us - I agree with that - but if you're skeptical about what the massive medical profession says and want to attach a certain amount of 'let me see if that's really true' to it, it becomes a whole different thing. It's the same thing, the way I see it.

[RainMaker]

This would never happen because donors would revolt, but I think there is a good case that if you made Fain the VP or gave him a position in the cabinet, you'd have a good chance of winning PA, MI, and WI. Not to mention win back some working class voters that have been lost over the past few decades.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The DOW cracked 40K today. 4 years ago it was at 25K but again lets vote for the felon

It was at 31000. Trump took it from 19,000 to 31,000. So it’s a close race to the finish, both parties over the last 8 years have done solidly here. Obama did pretty good. GWB has been the only one to have no help for the big boys of industry.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

This is the part where I need to push back in the other direction. The medical profession writ large has not served America well in a number of areas going back well before Covid (opioid epidemic, bad dietary advice for decades/generations, overprescription of antibioitics to name a few) and there were some just plain wrong/false/exaggerated things that were said and done during the pandemic, not all of which are explainable by the 'look, it was a crisis and we were all just figuring things out' aspect. There's a whole lot of CYA that went on, and there was a lot of misinformation on the hysteria side - not as much as on the denial side, but still an awful freaking lot of it.

So while I'm not with Jon and I don't think I know more than the medical profession, just blind faith in whatever the medical experts say isn't wise either. The part that really confuses me is how we're supposed to be cynical about how 'Wall Street' or 'mega-CEOs' or Big Oil or whoever the bugaboo of the moment is and what they tell us - I agree with that - but if you're skeptical about what the massive medical profession says and want to attach a certain amount of 'let me see if that's really true' to it, it becomes a whole different thing. It's the same thing, the way I see it.

We still don't know more than medical professionals and pretending facebook is a better place for advice is stupid. I may ask for a 2nd opinion but I'm not going to pretend I have more knowledge than someone with 6+ years of education plus experience from there.

If you require surgery or you're having a medical emergency you're still going to a doctor, not facebook. People are willing to pretend to be an expert in a field they know absolutely nothing about while at the same time beating their chests about how no one else could do their own job.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dutch

GWB has been the only one to have no help for the big boys of industry.

He bailed them all out! Results aren't there in the price but all those banks and financial institutions would be bankrupt if it wasn't for the bailouts.

Not defending him by any means but that was a massive gift to wealthy people.

[larrymcg421]

Trump has challenged Biden to a cognitive/aptitude test that they both take at the same time. Biden should absolutely accept. I see three outcomes:

1) Trump backs out.
2) Biden wins.
3) Trump wins.

1 and 2 are damaging to Trump and would revive Biden's campaign. 3 would mean it's time to bring on Kamala.

Of course, it has zero chance of happening.

[Danny]

Yep to Atocep.

Also there are plenty of issues and very valid criticisms of the medical system, but thats not even what this group even focuses on. Its covid was made up, vaccines are evil and doctors are forcing 5 year olds to have sex change operations.

[Brian Swartz]

Well, there are degrees. I haven't seen Jon say either one of those things for example.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Well, there are degrees. I haven't seen Jon say either one of those things for example.

Definitely.

I disagree with Jon on everything but I give him credit that he has formed his own opinions and is not a maga sheep.

But there is a large group of people who are part of that flock and have their views formed collectively.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

So while I'm not with Jon and I don't think I know more than the medical profession, just blind faith in whatever the medical experts say isn't wise either. The part that really confuses me is how we're supposed to be cynical about how 'Wall Street' or 'mega-CEOs' or Big Oil or whoever the bugaboo of the moment is and what they tell us - I agree with that - but if you're skeptical about what the massive medical profession says and want to attach a certain amount of 'let me see if that's really true' to it, it becomes a whole different thing. It's the same thing, the way I see it.

The underlines the fallacy of the system. The focus of the medical profession should be patient outcomes not profits like the other industries you list.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The underlines the fallacy of the system. The focus of the medical profession should be patient outcomes not profits like the other industries you list.

Yes and that quite possibly is the biggest flaw with the system. Of course within that system I still think most individuals care about patient outcomes but they have to operate within the system.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Danny

Definitely.

I disagree with Jon on everything but I give him credit that he has formed his own opinions and is not a maga sheep.

But there is a large group of people who are part of that flock and have their views formed collectively.

Not to "both side" but sort of both sides. The damage of social media is there is a large number of "group think" and crazy conspiracy ideas that permeate the left and the right. There was a time when people would some times have a quirky idea or conspiracy, but now there are huge numbers that follow lock step in some nutty belief or another. It doesn't help there are governments, including our own, that are using huge financial resources and manpower to drive those conspiracies and ideas for their own interest. And that is not even conspiracy, but proven fact.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Danny

Yes and that quite possibly is the biggest flaw with the system. Of course within that system I still think most individuals care about patient outcomes but they have to operate within the system.

I agree with that. Most people in the medical profession are there to help and "do no harm." Unfortunately the main driver of medical economy is greed.

[thesloppy]

It's a wrap.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Trump has challenged Biden to a cognitive/aptitude test that they both take at the same time. Biden should absolutely accept. I see three outcomes:

We all know Biden can't accept. It's a rare savvy move by Trump to keep the pressure on Biden.

[Ghost Econ]

He should say if Trump submits to a lie detector test he'll do it. Not that hard to parry.

[thesloppy]

I am all in on the competitive cognitive/aptitude test & I'd like to establish that as precedent. They should take that one we did in the 80s to figure out what job we'd be best at.

[Brian Swartz]

It's a wrap because Barkley says so?

[GrantDawg]

"It's a wrap because Barkley says so?"

These are what are normally called "jokes." Normal, non-AI people often use them to make others laugh. Some day, your creators will get it installed in your program.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

As I've said before, it's not obvious if they are jokes or not.

I see many statements on these forums regularly that are meant seriously but if I just went by what I thought of it, I would think it's a joke. I don't presume, not because I don't think anything is ever funny, but because it is incredibly rude to presume that what someone may or may not be saying seriously is a joke and dismiss what they are saying in that way.

[GrantDawg]

Yes, because the idea that someone seriously believes Charkes Barkley has the final determination whether the President of the United States runs for reelection or not is not offensive.

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[thesloppy]

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

As I've said before, it's not obvious if they are jokes or not.

I see many statements on these forums regularly that are meant seriously but if I just went by what I thought of it, I would think it's a joke. I don't presume, not because I don't think anything is ever funny, but because it is incredibly rude to presume that what someone may or may not be saying seriously is a joke and dismiss what they are saying in that way.

Honest question. Are you on the spectrum? Lest anyone think I’m being offensive I have a son in the spectrum and some social interactions he just can’t grasp.

[Brian Swartz]

Honest answer: I don't know.

I did used to take a different approach, and if I thought something was posted as a joke, I took it that way. I have repented (I mean that literally) of that approach, as I saw the damage that approach was doing to other posters, and also saw that I didn't particularly enjoy having things I'd posted seriously dismissed as 'obviously trolling/joking' when it absolutely wasn't.

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

because the idea that someone seriously believes Charkes Barkley has the final determination whether the President of the United States runs for reelection or not is not offensive.

People can literally believe absolutely anything.

There are people who believe in the Q nonsense. There are people who believe the Earth is flat. Just take a look at Terrence Howard's 'manifesto' or whatever, which is 100% serious and includes the claim that 1x1=2. Howard is not an idiot, and he is not joking. He is simply wrong, but that doesn't mean the basic respect to take his theories/claims seriously isn't appropriate, just as much as it is appropriate for 'popular' or 'accepted' points of view.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Yes, because the idea that someone seriously believes Charkes Barkley has the final determination whether the President of the United States runs for reelection or not is not offensive.

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Not just Barkley, but Stephen King, George Clooney AND Ashley Judd!

[GrantDawg]

I didn't realize Ashley Judd! That does it. Biden is stepping down.
(This is sarcasm for the sarcasm impared)

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[Ksyrup]

McConnell, Rand Paul, Thomas Massie all get their fair share of power/coverage, Beshear is being touted as a possible Biden replacement, now Clooney and Judd chiming in.

Not sure why KY seems to punch above its weight in national politics. And given the obesity here, that's a pretty tough task.

[Passacaglia]

I took it in a joking, but similar way as Brian, I think. Not sarcastic like "oh it's still to care what Charles Barkley thinks" but more like "oh if even Charles Barkley thinks he's mentally unfit, that's really saying something" -- so still without seriousness, but maybe in a different way. I guess it just goes to show how many different interpretations there can be.

[Ksyrup]

Gotta love the media: "Joe Biden avoids further gaffes at Detroit rally"

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

So....I also banned that account from 2008ish that showed up at started trolling. Was that also MJ4H? I'm saying it's possible that it was other guy who went nuts this morning, though of course it's possible that they're the same guy.

Which one was that, Saul Goode? I thought that might have been Sun Tzu.

[Edward64]

Bernie realized he’s older than Joe.

Sen. Bernie Sanders urged Democrats to “stop the bickering” and support President Joe Biden, admonishing those who have been spurred by fears about the incumbent’s health to call for a new nominee to compete against former President Donald Trump.

“Enough!” Sanders, an independent from Vermont who caucuses with Democrats, wrote in a New York Times op-ed published Saturday.

“Mr. Biden may not be the ideal candidate, but he will be the candidate and should be the candidate,” Sanders wrote. “And with an effective campaign that speaks to the needs of working families, he will not only defeat Mr. Trump but beat him badly.”

[flere-imsaho]

Bernie should be retiring as well. Last I checked, VT had a GOP governor. Plus, you know, make room for the next generation, Sanders....