Official 2023 College Football Thread

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Sports fandom has a large proportion of blind emotionalism.

I have been listening to Atlanta sports talk all day, and I didn't hear anybody seriously argue Georgia should be in. The common opinion I heard was that it is tragic that FSU got left out, that the criteria for the committee changes from year to year, and the ACC only has itself to blame for not allowing the playoff expansion this year.
Heck, the ACC and Pac 12 both got royally F-ed by the Big !0, that talked them into holding out for more money, then gutted the PAC 12 and made the ACC a non-power conference.

[GrantDawg]

Just want to add, if we were in the old bowl system, FSU would be sitting on the outside as Washington and Michigan played in the Rose Bowl for what would be a championship game due to bowl alliances. If we were in the BCS, FSU would have been screwed as Washington and Michigan would have played for the championship in whose ever bowl's turn it was to host the game. The only system that wouldn't have ended with FSU being screwed is a larger playoff group.

[GrantDawg]

Brock Vandergiff is hitting the portal. I really hope he ends up at a good school. He will be fun to watch.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Just want to add, if we were in the old bowl system, FSU would be sitting on the outside as Washington and Michigan played in the Rose Bowl for what would be a championship game due to bowl alliances. If we were in the BCS, FSU would have been screwed as Washington and Michigan would have played for the championship in whose ever bowl's turn it was to host the game. The only system that wouldn't have ended with FSU being screwed is a larger playoff group.

The ACC was one of 3 conferences that delayed the expanded playoff. So FSU can blame them.

[dubb93]

It just seems like the NFL allowing players to file for free agency before the playoffs. The transfer portal changed the game. Why hasn’t the game changed for the transfer portal? College football is the one major sport with a completely useless post season.

Honestly I’m close to the point where I’m wondering why I even follow this anymore. The only thing that matters is conference play and then sometimes that doesn’t matter since now apparently you can run the table there and still not have a post season.

I’m thinking to myself that an expanded playoff will probably be what pushes NFL prospects into sitting out the playoffs entirely.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I’m thinking to myself that an expanded playoff will probably be what pushes NFL prospects into sitting out the playoffs entirely.

You want to bet? If they have a nagging injury or something, maybe. No team is going to touch a player that doesn't want to compete for a title.

[Noop]

I think once the Power 2 breakaway they will give players money for being in the playoffs.

[RainMaker]

Isn't the timing of the transfer portal so that a player can get into another school before the semester starts? Kind of tough to do it right as the second semester begins.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You want to bet? If they have a nagging injury or something, maybe. No team is going to touch a player that doesn't want to compete for a title.

You really think the NFL gives a crap if these players play in the college post season? I’d wait for you to answer that but I think the answer is obvious. You would be 100% correct on guys looking to transfer elsewhere though, but NFL guys? They won’t give a second look.

[RainMaker]

The NFL does not care about that stuff. Smith-Njigba was a first round pick this year.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by dubb93

You really think the NFL gives a crap if these players play in the college post season? I’d wait for you to answer that but I think the answer is obvious. You would be 100% correct on guys looking to transfer elsewhere though, but NFL guys? They won’t give a second look.

Character matters. If you are noncompetitive, you are not going to make it. There have been plenty of guys that have cost themselves millions because of the rumored "lack of fire." If you don't want to compete for a championship, then it would be more than a rumor.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The NFL does not care about that stuff. Smith-Njigba was a first round pick this year.

He was injured, like I said. If he'd sat out healthy....

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He was injured, like I said. If he'd sat out healthy....

I don't think the NFL cares. Maybe some teams, but talent is getting drafted. Sitting out would have less of an impact on draft stock than an arrest or other off field conduct issues. For some, like RBs, it may even be considered a good thing.

[GrantDawg]

I'm going to say this to make clear what I'm saying. Multiple players might sit out an unimportant bowl game to prepare for the draft, but if more than one player on a team sits out a playoff game to prepare for the draft then you have a culture problem and weren't likely to win a championship anyway.

[GrantDawg]

Two guys that could barely walk after the game with high NFL hopes played in the SEC championship game because no one was going to stop them.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I don't think the NFL cares. Maybe some teams, but talent is getting drafted. Sitting out would have less of an impact on draft stock than an arrest or other off field conduct issues. For some, like RBs, it may even be considered a good thing.

They will get drafted about 10 spots from where they could have if they had any heart.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He was injured, like I said. If he'd sat out healthy....

And reports from NFL scouts was that he was healthy enough to play. NFL teams don't care. I guess they can just make up a nagging injury if it makes people feel better. Everyone is likely hurt by this point in the season.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

They will get drafted about 10 spots from where they could have if they had any heart.

Yeah I'm sure Caleb Williams would fall to 11 if USC made the playoff and he sat out.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Yeah I'm sure Caleb Williams would fall to 11 if USC made the playoff and he sat out.

Caleb Williams wouldn't be the player that he is if he would. And I will take that bet, because character is very high on the list of importance when taking a Quarterback. That would be a sure sign he is not going to work as hard as needs to on the next level. Really bad example.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And reports from NFL scouts was that he was healthy enough to play. NFL teams don't care. I guess they can just make up a nagging injury if it makes people feel better. Everyone is likely hurt by this point in the season.

His doctors said no, but the NFL scouts know better? Or was NFL scouts saying that hoping he would drop?

[dubb93]

It’s not even a character issue. It’s play 3 games and risk 100+ million for $0 extra dollars. I think most NFL execs would realize the guy is using his head. Remember, they are paid in the NFL. They are paid more for the playoffs. Zero character issue there. As I’ve previously stated, college football is broken and they haven’t moved to fix it.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by dubb93

It’s not even a character issue. It’s play 3 games and risk 100+ million for $0 extra dollars. I think most NFL execs would realize the guy is using his head. Remember, they are paid in the NFL. They are paid more for the playoffs. Zero character issue there. As I’ve previously stated, college football is broken and they haven’t moved to fix it.

With the stupid 12-team format some teams might play 4 games. It's ridiculous.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by dubb93

It’s not even a character issue. It’s play 3 games and risk 100+ million for $0 extra dollars. I think most NFL execs would realize the guy is using his head. Remember, they are paid in the NFL. They are paid more for the playoffs. Zero character issue there. As I’ve previously stated, college football is broken and they haven’t moved to fix it.

First, it is not zero dollars. They are getting paid to play in college, or haven't you heard? A playoff game is worth another couple million in endorsement money to a top tier prospect. Players are actually way more likely to keep playing because of NIL money than not.

[RainMaker]

I just don't know what to say if you really think guys like Trevor Lawrence, Joe Burrow, and Caleb Williams would fall to the mid-1st round for sitting out some games that don't matter to NFL teams. No one is passing on a generational QB over that.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

First, it is not zero dollars. They are getting paid to play in college, or haven't you heard? A playoff game is worth another couple million in endorsement money to a top tier prospect. Players are actually way more likely to keep playing because of NIL money than not.

NIL money isn’t per game. It’s a one time payment.

[dubb93]

I actually read an article today about including incentives in NIL deals (such as extra money for playoffs) but right now they aren’t being done and may not actually be legal per NCAA rules.

[GrantDawg]

But guys are still signing contracts right now. It is not locked to any time in the season. Last year Benett signed a big contract right before the playoffs. Guys are still making money.

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[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I just don't know what to say if you really think guys like Trevor Lawrence, Joe Burrow, and Caleb Williams would fall to the mid-1st round for sitting out some games that don't matter to NFL teams. No one is passing on a generational QB over that.

Then why haven't they done it? Lawrence was a shoe in first overall after his freshman year. Why play another down? Because he wouldn't have been if he didn't have the competitive fire to play.

It is not just about draft position, though that plays a role. You act like these kids just want money and don't care about winning. If they didn't care about winning, especially at Quarterback, then they'd never gotten to the level they did. There are very, very few players that would even be of the type that could consider sitting out without hurting their draft stock, and the number that would will be tiny.
Since the NIL and draft portal, you are actually seeing kids stay in school and play longer than before. They don't have to leave for the NFL to help pay for their family anymore. They can hang in, try for a higher draft position. It has improved the game, not made it worse.

[dubb93]

The possibility is there to sign new deals, but I’d not think that there is going to be a windfall at that point in the season for the bulk of the players.

Also Stetson in particular was not a major day 1 NFL prospect and actually made more last season at Georgia than he is this year in the pros. I’m not really talking about guys like him here. I’m talking first round NFL prospects looking at 3 to 4 additional games after the season ends.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by dubb93

The possibility is there to sign new deals, but I’d not think that there is going to be a windfall at that point in the season for the bulk of the players.

Also Stetson in particular was not a major day 1 NFL prospect and actually made more last season at Georgia than he is this year in the pros. I’m not really talking about guys like him here. I’m talking first round NFL prospects looking at 3 to 4 additional games after the season ends.

Again, a very small handful that would even qualify in that conversation, and they would have to lack a desire to compete to even consider it. No chance you are going to have large numbers sitting out playoff games baring injury.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Then why haven't they done it? Lawrence was a shoe in first overall after his freshman year. Why play another down? Because he wouldn't have been if he didn't have the competitive fire to play.

It is not just about draft position, though that plays a role. You act like these kids just want money and don't care about winning. If they didn't care about winning, especially at Quarterback, then they'd never gotten to the level they did. There are very, very few players that would even be of the type that could consider sitting out without hurting their draft stock, and the number that would will be tiny.
Since the NIL and draft portal, you are actually seeing kids stay in school and play longer than before. They don't have to leave for the NFL to help pay for their family anymore. They can hang in, try for a higher draft position. It has improved the game, not made it worse.

I'm not saying players won't play. They most likely want to play in those games. There is likely NIL money available to play in them as well. I'm just saying that the NFL doesn't give a shit if Trevor Lawrence played in those playoff games or not. They wouldn't care if Caleb Williams played in the playoffs or not. They'd both be #1 picks by every franchise in the league.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Brock Vandergiff is hitting the portal. I really hope he ends up at a good school. He will be fun to watch.

I've heard UK mentioned a couple places, and then my daughter told me one of his sisters plays VB at EKU. She works in the AD and does tickets and other administrative stuff, so she knows her. Another sister is going to Alabama for SB I believe.

[GrantDawg]

That's cool, Ksyrup. I heard Kentucky was a possibility as well. Auburn and USC are the two others, but he would be a good pick up for anyone.

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[GrantDawg]

Rainmaker, I'm not sure Caleb Williams will be the number-one pick. I think there is still a chance he gets jumped. The combine and interview are going to tell the tale, but he is not nearly the lock he was.

Edot: And I will say with the questions that teams are asking now, if he had sat out a playoff game, he definitely wouldn't have been number one overall. Not even a chance.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Dillon Gabriel transferring just highlights one of the major problems with college football right now. I don't have any info so I could be wrong, but I doubt this is happening without a nice NIL deal already lined up somewhere.

I think it has more to do with Oklahoma having a 5-star prospect on the bench who would likely supplant Gabriel. And my guess is Gabriel ends up going with his offensive coordinator to Mississippi State.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That's cool, Ksyrup. I heard Kentucky was a possibility as well. Auburn and USC are the two others, but he would be a good pick up for anyone.

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While I'm obviously not a fan, I do try to be fair. I don't hold the kid's dad -- perhaps THE lowest character scumbag I've ever seen in football coaching in my 50 years of viewing and fandom -- against him.

He played, as some may recall, for my kid's archrival. I've never seen any single player I rooted against in HS that I was more frightened by, a friggin Houdini that was insanely difficult to get a grip on to bring down. He doesn't look like that sorta player ... until you see him routinely end up 20-30 yards downfield after what looked like an 8 yard loss was coming. One of those "he just finds a way" players.

How his skill translates at the next level, still TBD. But he definitely feels like a starter somewhere to me.

[miami_fan]

I think it is a step too far to say a top player especially a quarterback who is completely healthy would emerge unscathed if they chose to skip a playoff game. NFL franchises want players who want to compete for championships at the highest level. Why would an NFL team want a guy does not want to do that no matter how talented? Why would a guy that talented want to go to a team that is okay with that?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I think it is a step too far to say a top player especially a quarterback who is completely healthy would emerge unscathed if they chose to skip a playoff game. NFL franchises want players who want to compete for championships at the highest level. Why would an NFL team want a guy does not want to do that no matter how talented? Why would a guy that talented want to go to a team that is okay with that?

Smith-Njigba did it last year. And even if he was really hurt like some in here thinks he was the NFL was convinced he wasn’t actually hurt and he still went about where he was expected or maybe even earlier. Before I’m accused of making that up my source is Todd McShay.

hxxps://www.si.com/college/2022/12/07/todd-mcshay-nfl-scouts-question-jaxon-smith-njigba-missing-college-football-playoff-ohio-state

[RainMaker]

Trey Lance passed on the COVID season too. Bosa decided not to come back from a groin pull I believe early in the season when OSU was a favorite to win it all.

I mean DeShaun Watson got $250 million and people think a team will pass on a generational QB because he chose not to play for free in a weird ass playoff game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I think it is a step too far to say a top player especially a quarterback who is completely healthy would emerge unscathed if they chose to skip a playoff game. NFL franchises want players who want to compete for championships at the highest level. Why would an NFL team want a guy does not want to do that no matter how talented? Why would a guy that talented want to go to a team that is okay with that?

I dunno. I'd like to think you're right. I'm long on record about my thorough contempt for the zero character quitters, I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole.

But I suspect that the judgement of an NFL franchise in 2023 isn't that solid. They excuse an awful lot.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

It’s not even a character issue. It’s play 3 games and risk 100+ million for $0 extra dollars. I think most NFL execs would realize the guy is using his head. Remember, they are paid in the NFL. They are paid more for the playoffs. Zero character issue there.

It's absolutely and entirely a character issue.
Or specifically, a lack of character issue.

Same people who quit on their team in college quit on their team elsewhere.

We've already established they're nothing but whores, all you're doing is haggling over price.

[JPhillips]

Given the portal and those sitting out for the draft, the OSU bowl game is going to be played by an entirely different team.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Trey Lance passed on the COVID season too. Bosa decided not to come back from a groin pull I believe early in the season when OSU was a favorite to win it all.

I mean DeShaun Watson got $250 million and people think a team will pass on a generational QB because he chose not to play for free in a weird ass playoff game.

And Trey Lance has been stellar in the NFL. Oh, wait. Players drop in the draft for answering gotcha interview questions wrong. You don't think a lack of competitive drive is not a red flag?

Bosa had core muscle surgery in September of that year. It would have been a stretch for him to come back after that. And you are quoting McShay as your proof about Smith-Njigba. You know how much crap McShay just straight makes up prior to the draft? He always has some "scoop" that ends up being completely bogus.The only thing bout that article he was right about was that teams would have thought twice about drafting him if he were not really injured and sat out the playoffs. The fact they drafted him high proved they didn't.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Smith-Njigba did it last year. And even if he was really hurt like some in here thinks he was the NFL was convinced he wasn’t actually hurt and he still went about where he was expected or maybe even earlier. Before I’m accused of making that up my source is Todd McShay.

hxxps://www.si.com/college/2022/12/07/todd-mcshay-nfl-scouts-question-jaxon-smith-njigba-missing-college-football-playoff-ohio-state

A) He is a receiver.

B) He was drafted #20. It could just as easily be argued that if he had played he would have went higher.

C) Unless there is a belief that he was not actually hurt all season, I will go along with his doctors that said he was not healthy to play in the playoffs.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Trey Lance passed on the COVID season too. Bosa decided not to come back from a groin pull I believe early in the season when OSU was a favorite to win it all.

I mean DeShaun Watson got $250 million and people think a team will pass on a generational QB because he chose not to play for free in a weird ass playoff game.

Trey Lance passed on the spring season. He played the one game scheduled in the fall and skipped all the games scheduled from February to May 2021. Why would anyone who is draft eligible play that schedule? Nick Bosa had core muscle surgery in September and then left school soon after.

I am not saying that a team won't take generational talent if he skips a regular ole bowl game. I actually agree with Caleb Williams not playing in the Holiday Bowl because for who, for what? I also don't think a player that is injured should risk further injury even if it is a playoff game. I just don't see how anyone can believe the idea that NFL teams would watch a player like Marvin Harrison Jr. or Michael Penix Jr. go through the rigors of a 13 game season unscathed just to decide that the semifinals and possibly the CFB title game is not worth playing in to protect themselves for the future and NFL teams would not care or look at that unfavorably.

[cuervo72]

Well that was insanely stupid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Well that was insanely stupid.

And I said to myself "hmm, I wonder if this was supposed to be in the NFL thread"

And I look at the MNF box score, and then at Twitter, see the interception.

Yep, I'm pretty sure this was meant for the NFL thread

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

And Trey Lance has been stellar in the NFL. Oh, wait. Players drop in the draft for answering gotcha interview questions wrong. You don't think a lack of competitive drive is not a red flag?

Has nothing to do with competitive drive. It's a business decision. Just as Patrick Mahomes isn't agreeing to play for the league minimum, a top drsft prospect might not agree to play for free.

You're just making up asinine scenarios because you're mad players are figuring out its a business.

[RainMaker]

NFL GMs care about competitive drive in college, but only for playoff games. Not for bowl games. Not if you had an injury earlier in the year. Not if you don't show up to the combine. And definitely not if your team played in the Spring.

They have a very selective criteria for what is and isn't considered competition.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I said to myself "hmm, I wonder if this was supposed to be in the NFL thread"

And I look at the MNF box score, and then at Twitter, see the interception.

Yep, I'm pretty sure this was meant for the NFL thread

Gosh darned multiple football threads...

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

We've already established they're nothing but whores, all you're doing is haggling over price.

What you describe as 'whores' is just ... what athletes are. They're providing entertainment for a price, the same as somebody who works a 'traditional job' is providing a service for a price. They're doing their job and making career decisions.