Alright boyz, here we go!! Civilization IV first impressions...

[SackAttack]

Heads up, guys. Civ IV: Beyond the Sword is $14.99 at Circuit City this week.

[Ben E Lou]

Some cat at Civfanatics.com has created the BtS manual that Firaxis should have included with the game.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Heads up, guys. Civ IV: Beyond the Sword is $14.99 at Circuit City this week.

Cool. I haven't been following this much -- do you need Warlords to play it? And if you don't have Warlords, is it worth it?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Cool. I haven't been following this much -- do you need Warlords to play it? And if you don't have Warlords, is it worth it?

No. Separate expansions. From everything I've heard, Beyond the Sword is a significant upgrade to Civ4 (heard it referred to as "Civ 4.5", while Warlords had some neat additions but nothing you couldn't afford to miss.

I wound up with both, because my Civ 4 disc was FUBAR. Picked up BtS for the aforementioned $15 and traded in a game I wasn't playing anymore to save $22 on the Civ 4 gold edition. Spent about $50 out of pocket, wound up with Civ + expansions. Whee.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Some cat at Civfanatics.com has created the BtS manual that Firaxis should have included with the game.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346

Thanks for the link. I've lost my first 3 games on the neutral level (Monarch?) and will give this a read when I have a chance later today to try to help my late game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Thanks for the link. I've lost my first 3 games on the neutral level (Monarch?) and will give this a read when I have a chance later today to try to help my late game.

Isn't neutral level Noble?

I had one of 'those' Civ moments yesterday. Built a hell of an empire with 8 wonders by the 1300s, only to have the top civ in the game (I was a close 2nd) show up at my doorstep with a stack of 20 units when I only had about 3 units in each of my 6 cities. I retired right then to avoid having to watch the carnage. ****sigh****

[Eaglesfan27]

I put a question mark after it because I don't remember. I just remember that I always start on the level that is supposed to be balanced and it says it is a good place for Civ vets to start.

I've also been crushed by the AI showing up with a few massive stacks the last few games. The game that I started most recently, I've been constantly building units whenever I'm low on the demographics screen and I have at least 10 units in each of my cities although I'm paying for the upkeep at the cost of slowed research. At least everyone is too afraid to attack us.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I put a question mark after it because I don't remember. I just remember that I always start on the level that is supposed to be balanced and it says it is a good place for Civ vets to start.

I've also been crushed by the AI showing up with a few massive stacks the last few games. The game that I started most recently, I've been constantly building units whenever I'm low on the demographics screen and I have at least 10 units in each of my cities although I'm paying for the upkeep at the cost of slowed research. At least everyone is too afraid to attack us.

I was asking a question too. I thought I had heard it was noble, but your comment had me wondering.

Does the AI determine when you're weak by running units through your territory with open borders, using spy technology, or other means? I feel like they get me when I'm really down, so they must know something about me through some means.

[Alan T]

Yes, I believe it is noble that supposedly is the balanced level.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Yes, I believe it is noble that supposedly is the balanced level.

Good to know that the balanced AI opponent is repeatedly handing me my ass on a silver platter.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Good to know that the balanced AI opponent is repeatedly handing me my ass on a silver platter.

I found that each level is a progression of learning how to do something in the game more effeciently. For me using the same strategy on the easiest two levels just did not work on the tougher levels (or even the "balanced" level).

The changes I had to make in order to be able to succeed on noble level was to learn how to manage the workers instead of have them auto-improve. Learn how to set up a defensive front and give enough of a defense to keep other civs from Declaring war on me. Learning how to prioritize what technologies to learn, and which ones to skip.

This works fine for me on Noble, but I have problems with levels 1 or 2 tougher than noble currently. Things I currently am trying to work on getting better at now are.. learning how to specialize cities based on what their surrounding resources are. Learning what improvements and buildings should be built in which type of specialized city. Learning how to place cities better to maximize the resources on the board rather than just place a city somewhere that looks ok.

[Big Fo]

Is there a way to determine how much money a new city is going to cost to maintain before founding it? Or how many cities you can build before getting the killer penalties, some kind of equation maybe.

Sometimes it kills you when you found that one extra city, but you also have to try and fill the map because if you don't the AI will and they'll eventually be bigger than you if you don't expand quickly.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Is there a way to determine how much money a new city is going to cost to maintain before founding it? Or how many cities you can build before getting the killer penalties, some kind of equation maybe.

Sometimes it kills you when you found that one extra city, but you also have to try and fill the map because if you don't the AI will and they'll eventually be bigger than you if you don't expand quickly.

If you define your borders early and then back fill, the urgency is lessened somewhat.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

If you define your borders early and then back fill, the urgency is lessened somewhat.

But doesn't that seem...unlike a real civilization?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But doesn't that seem...unlike a real civilization?

I guess it depends on your reason for jumping in expansion. I think it is quite realistic to have a civilization expand to a city that has a prime resource or important crossroad, then backfill in towns between your large cities.

Its probably not as realistic to jump and grab that small stretch of land to prevent another civilization from passing through your borders and get other good land in the future though

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But doesn't that seem...unlike a real civilization?

Kinda seems like a game to me.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Kinda seems like a game to me.

was going to post the same thing

FM

[henry296]

This is for jbmagic.... I just lost my first game on Noble to the computer via a Cultural Victory. I was probably 8 turns from launching my space ship.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just lost for the 4th straight time in a row to the Noble AI. I remember before when the game first came out, I used to win on Noble, but I'm getting killed since the expansion came out. I've been trying random leaders/civs. I guess it is time to hand pick a leader/civ that fits my play style better.

[FrogMan]

don't you guys love those new privateer ships? I mean, run around and wreak havoc, attack other ships, destroy work boats, that's so much fun.

FM

[Galaril]

Can anyone tell me where th F@#$ the game installs to when you use the recommended path for install. There is no folder for it anywhere on my program files and a search didn't turn it up. I want to add some of the modded files to the game people have done but can't find the damn game folder.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Can anyone tell me where th F@#$ the game installs to when you use the recommended path for install. There is no folder for it anywhere on my program files and a search didn't turn it up. I want to add some of the modded files to the game people have done but can't find the damn game folder.

C:\Documents and Settings\user\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4

[Galaril]

Thanks. I found that but didn't think that was the main folders.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Can anyone tell me where th F@#$ the game installs to when you use the recommended path for install. There is no folder for it anywhere on my program files and a search didn't turn it up. I want to add some of the modded files to the game people have done but can't find the damn game folder.

you could have right-clicked the shortcut to the game, hit "properties", then "find target"...

to me, it's
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword

The folder given by spleen1015 is indeed where you put the mods though...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Finally had some good results yesterday on Noble. I have a 7 city civ with quite a few Wonders. Difference this time is that I built up the military much better and placed most of the units on the borders on either side. It also helped greatly that my two greatest rivals engaged in a massive war, drawing in other civs in the process. While those civs were battling it out, I had two consecutive Golden Ages. I jumped from 2nd to a clear 1st place in a hurry. Played from the beginning until 1830 on normal speed last night. Feeling tired today.

[sachmo71]

Two new Wonders that I love:

Mausoleum of Maussollos [Calendar]: Though it makes its home city more likely to generate Great Artists, its real benefit is its ability to extend a civilization's Golden Age by 50%. Constructed twice as fast with Marble.

Once you have a GP farm up and running, keeping Golden Ages going can really give you a nice springboard forward. And I've never had much of an issue with Great Artists...they're excellent for pushing back your rivals borders when they create a great work!

Moai Statues: gives you production in all water tiles of that city.

If your GP farm is by the ocean, this wonder will allow you to keep up enough production to make it possible to build many of the early wonders there.

[Yossarian]

keeping Golden Ages going can really give you a nice springboard forward.

if you couple this with the new lowered Golden Age trigger price from great people AND potentially building the Taj Mahal it's possible to stay in a golden age for a long time

Moai Statues: gives you production in all water tiles of that city.

Plus, if you play as the dutch, your unique building (in place of Levvy) gives all water tiles +1H too, so for that particular city, it gets two H in the water.


Also don't forget that in a golden age, every tile that produces a hammer produces one more, so if you combined you golden age with the two buildings, your ocean town would produce three hammers per tile.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

if you couple this with the new lowered Golden Age trigger price from great people AND potentially building the Taj Mahal it's possible to stay in a golden age for a long time



Plus, if you play as the dutch, your unique building (in place of Levvy) gives all water tiles +1H too, so for that particular city, it gets two H in the water.


Also don't forget that in a golden age, every tile that produces a hammer produces one more, so if you combined you golden age with the two buildings, your ocean town would produce three hammers per tile.

Wow, love the symetry. I'm still on my first game...playing as the Inca. I thought I would like the UU better than I have, but my neighbor doesn't have iron, so once I get catapults, I'm going to turn him into a memory.

[Flasch186]

alright, this game just got unbelievable:

Im at war and getting a butt kicking and we're on the verge of falling over the cliff when the Ethiopian's have mercy on our injured soldiers and the opportunity allows us to find a peace accord.

Then a few turns later (when the troops arrive back home) the civilization experiences a baby boom!! How cool is that!!??

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The Apostolic Palace has helped me twice in my current game. I've been able to propose stopping the war against me. It's thankfully passed both times. I have the units to keep them at bay, but it was really slowing my civ's progress overall.

[Flasch186]

well now after that war im wallowing in mediocrity but it was fun....while it lasted.

[Eaglesfan27]

I continue to get mopped up by the Noble AI. Played for 2 hours after my wife went to bed last night, and I was quickly killed off again. If I expand too quickly, I take too much of a hit to my maintainence and am having to drop my research down to 40-50% which seems to quickly get me into a losing position in the technology war. I used to be good at this game, but I clearly need to re-learn what I used to do to win. How fast are most people expanding and what percentage are most people dropping their research down to in the earlier part of the game?

[sachmo71]

In my first game, my first build was a worker, then a chop rushed settler.

[Big Fo]

Yeah, I like playing as the Dutch. Creative is my favorite trait since it saves having to build all those early monuments, financial is pretty good, but that unique building is killer and works hand in hand with the income bonus for financial leaders. You can have some very rich and productive coastal cities.

I like to keep my science rate at least 70%. In one of the Civ4 mods I played before BtS came out you could adjust the rate by 5% increments instead of 10%, which I found to be useful then and would like even more now that you have to allocate money for espionage too. Maybe they'll add that in the next patch.

[JPhillips]

I got saved by a miraculous event. I was sneak attacked by the treachorous Aztecs and looked to be in trouble. I had a decent defense, but almost no offensive ability and he came at me with two large stacks. After the initial DOW, I got an event that said something about a soldier running miles to warn of the invasion and I got a free Golden Age! With the extra production from the GA I was able to build up my army and soon retook the two cities I lost initially.

I was also able to complete the Statue of Zues due to forest chopping and soon his war exhaustion was about 350. I took a couple of cities and settled for peace.

All of it because of the heroism of one soldier.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I got saved by a miraculous event. I was sneak attacked by the treachorous Aztecs and looked to be in trouble. I had a decent defense, but almost no offensive ability and he came at me with two large stacks. After the initial DOW, I got an event that said something about a soldier running miles to warn of the invasion and I got a free Golden Age! With the extra production from the GA I was able to build up my army and soon retook the two cities I lost initially.

I was also able to complete the Statue of Zues due to forest chopping and soon his war exhaustion was about 350. I took a couple of cities and settled for peace.

All of it because of the heroism of one soldier.

Very cool.

I'm still pissed that the English keep attacking me. I've got a technological edge right now. As soon as I get some tanks, there's going to be hell to pay.

[cubboyroy1826]

Yeah that is indeed very cool. Now if i coud only find some time to play this thing i might actually pick it up.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I got saved by a miraculous event. I was sneak attacked by the treachorous Aztecs and looked to be in trouble. I had a decent defense, but almost no offensive ability and he came at me with two large stacks. After the initial DOW, I got an event that said something about a soldier running miles to warn of the invasion and I got a free Golden Age! With the extra production from the GA I was able to build up my army and soon retook the two cities I lost initially.

I was also able to complete the Statue of Zues due to forest chopping and soon his war exhaustion was about 350. I took a couple of cities and settled for peace.

All of it because of the heroism of one soldier.

I picked up BtS and have been enjoying it quite a bit. They have actually fixed the problem I had with Terra games (although it is now almost too easy to conquer the New World).

I got the same runner warning message, but unfortunately it is a 20th Century war (a runner found out before radar apparently). So, it looks like there are still a few kinks to work out with the events. But I'm enjoying it and won a game on Noble. Prince has been a beast and I have never made it to the 16th Century.

[FrogMan]

okay, so I'm still laboring through my first game with BtS. I'm now up to 1855 or so when Ragnar appears out of nowhere and says hi. Wha? I then learned that Zagob has put him in charge of his overseas colonies. Cool, now how can I do that with mine?

FM

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I continue to get mopped up by the Noble AI. Played for 2 hours after my wife went to bed last night, and I was quickly killed off again. If I expand too quickly, I take too much of a hit to my maintainence and am having to drop my research down to 40-50% which seems to quickly get me into a losing position in the technology war. I used to be good at this game, but I clearly need to re-learn what I used to do to win. How fast are most people expanding and what percentage are most people dropping their research down to in the earlier part of the game?

In older games it was all about expand expand expand. Now sometimes that gets you in trouble as you can see. Its often said that one well built city is better than a few poorly producing ones. It is hard to say the exact point where expanding makes sense, as if you don't expand, you'll fall behind in the research arena, if you expand too fast, it becomes very ineffecient.

I generally find that I do a few things with my city before I look to expand my next one. Only times I really rush to expand would be to shut the door on a rival's expansion, or to grab a valuable resource. My first expansion I usually do once I find horse/copper/iron and then find it less needed to expand as fast.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Heads up, guys. Civ IV: Beyond the Sword is $14.99 at Circuit City this week.

Thanks for the tip. Bought it tonight. Also bought Forza Motorsport 2 when my 4-year-old daughter asked for the "car racing game". And just last week she asked Mommy if Daddy could play his "baseball game" (NCAA 08, she's still figuring this sports thing out) unprompted.

I love my daughter

[henry296]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

okay, so I'm still laboring through my first game with BtS. I'm now up to 1855 or so when Ragnar appears out of nowhere and says hi. Wha? I then learned that Zagob has put him in charge of his overseas colonies. Cool, now how can I do that with mine?

FM

You need to have two cities on another continent. On the domestic advisor screen is an option. I've never done it though.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Thanks for the tip. Bought it tonight. Also bought Forza Motorsport 2 when my 4-year-old daughter asked for the "car racing game". And just last week she asked Mommy if Daddy could play his "baseball game" (NCAA 08, she's still figuring this sports thing out) unprompted.

I love my daughter

Yeah, I was hankering to play Civ4 on Sunday when this thread popped up again. Saw how ridiculously dirty my disc was, started hunting for price drops/sales, and saw the sale on BtS. Between that and trading a game in to pick up Civ4: Gold at EB, I think I ended up getting all three bits for just under $50.

[Yossarian]

I generally find that I do a few things with my city before I look to expand my next one.

My top three priorities are usually:

Some culture to pop the borders (monument?)
courthouses to half maintenance costs (if you are expanding a lot this really helps)

then usually lighthouse if it's a crappy food city near water or a granary

[Yossarian]

you can learn a LOT by reading the succession game threads on civfanatics.

Hit the forums ( http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumd...esc&sort=views ) and read the popular threads with "RB" in the title and with Sirian or Sully posting in the game. You really really learn about how to 'think' in this game.

I also learned a tonne from the 'unreal walkthrough' ( http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=231469 ) where the guy plays against 'standard' thinking.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

you can learn a LOT by reading the succession game threads on civfanatics.

Hit the forums ( http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumd...esc&sort=views ) and read the popular threads with "RB" in the title and with Sirian or Sully posting in the game. You really really learn about how to 'think' in this game.

I also learned a tonne from the 'unreal walkthrough' ( http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=231469 ) where the guy plays against 'standard' thinking.

Thanks for the links. I'm going to check read through them today.

[molson]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Heads up, guys. Civ IV: Beyond the Sword is $14.99 at Circuit City this week.

Damn it, it's listed as out of stock at the Circuit City website, and at my local store. This thing's flying off the shelves.

[Eaglesfan27]

Reading the 1st of the RB threads as I just had a no show, and I'm already having a lot of new strategies stimulated in my head. I'm realizing that I've vastly underused slavery (as in I almost never use it.) Also, I forgot about how big the cultural bonuses can be from founding religions.

[Yossarian]

I think you're reading the "Isabella on a lake" thread?

That was the first one I read - it seemed like every page or two I learned something new.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

I think you're reading the "Isabella on a lake" thread?

That was the first one I read - it seemed like every page or two I learned something new.

Yes, that is the one that I'm reading and I also feel like I'm learning something new almost every page.