Ongoing pro/college basketball thread (2023-24)

[HerRealName]

This round of 32 schedule continues to get worse every year. Does the NCAA have any control over the schedule or is CBS totally in control? Also, the CBS in-studio product is absolutely terrible. I don't even know who the target audience is for this mess.

[henry296]

I think this has been the same schedule since they partnered with Turner and had every game on its own channel.

This was the schedule in 2019: https://www.si.com/college/2019/03/2...caa-tournament

[RainMaker]

I hate how they do the weekend scheduling too and it doesn't help that this tournament has been a bore.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by henry296

I think this has been the same schedule since they partnered with Turner and had every game on its own channel.

This was the schedule in 2019: https://www.si.com/college/2019/03/2...caa-tournament

Damn, you're right. I used to think the round of 32 was the best round of the tournament and (like RM said) this is a huge letdown.

[Ksyrup]

LOL at UCLA/UConn being dubbed "The Dickhead Bowl."

[Atocep]

Iowa State runs the best offense in the country. Just clean and easy to watch. Great sets and actions. Kentucky had about as good a half as you could possibly expect there and they still go in down 1.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just a nod toward Miami (FL) who matched the largest single increase in wins (+19) in NCAA history.

Jai Lucas started a real-life empty cupboard dynasty and exceeded expectations. Question is: can he continue doing it?

That's really the interesting part of this, not like there's any emotional connection to his players for me. He did what most people fail at, portal shopping a completely new team, the stars of which are likely gone next season (top 3 players all seniors).

And if he can, is there a secret sauce beyond simply $$$?

And if he can, then shouldn't Georgia Tech put pretty significant improvement expectations with their new hire as well? The cupboard on North Ave isn't as empty as the one in Miami was, or certainly can't be any emptier.

Ultimately, those may be the new coaching stars: people who know how to manage their salary cap AND mesh massive turnover into a coherent capable roster year after year. The new version of bringing early outs year after year, but instead of freshmen it's older guys?

[Passacaglia]

I always get annoyed by the scheduling too. Maybe there's some reason it's like this, but to me, you just space the games 20-30 minutes apart so there's always a game that's ending, instead of having some empty times and some chunks.

[Ksyrup]

I assume TV ratings are miles better in the evening, compounded by CT/MT/PT.

[JPhillips]

St. John's almost blew it, but ended up with a buzzer beater for the win.

[Ksyrup]

Isn't physics indisputable evidence? That call in the UT/UVA game where the ball bounced off the UT head and past the hand of a UVA player, it's clear the ball doesn't change trajectory even a fraction. Therefore, he didn't touch the ball. You don't need to see the ball miss his hand - the ball's movement is the proof.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

St. John's almost blew it, but ended up with a buzzer beater for the win.

The great thing about the buzzer beater for me is Darling went straight to the basket and forced the Kansas player to defend the whole court. It was obvious that the defender was just waiting for Darling pull up and that was enough to give him the opportunity for the layup.

And now I can cheer for Iowa basketball beating the Gators with a clear conscience knowing that Fran McCaffery gets no benefit from their success.

[Ksyrup]

How do you drive 3/4 of the court knowing you've got 4.5 seconds and think a pass right under the basket in traffic is the play? Just draw the foul! Happy to see UF lose. They played like ass in the SEC tournament so I wasn't buying the 1 seed.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The great thing about the buzzer beater for me is Darling went straight to the basket and forced the Kansas player to defend the whole court. It was obvious that the defender was just waiting for Darling pull up and that was enough to give him the opportunity for the layup.

And now I can cheer for Iowa basketball beating the Gators with a clear conscience knowing that Fran McCaffery gets no benefit from their success.

Kansas did a great job with their fouls. They really limited what St. John's was able to do. Having the ball in the hands of a guy who was 0-4 on the night with only 3.9 seconds has to be about as good a scenario as Kansas could get.

[miami_fan]

The final nine seconds is the tale of two different basketball philosophies. Guard the inbound pass or not to guard the inbound pass.

Florida guards the inbounder even though the inbounder can run the baseline. The inbounder runs the baseline and easily get the ball to a player running to the opposing basket. Since the defender who was guarding the kid who got the pass went for the steal and did not get it, Iowa now had a three on two break that if the kid does not hit the three, there is a guy standing at the basket for a possible offensive rebound and put back.

Now it's Florida's ball. Iowa does not guard the inbounder who could also run the baseline. They choose allows the player to get the ball also while running to the opposing basket. By not guarding the inbounder, Iowa is able to play five defenders against the four offensive players. They double team the dribbler forcing the ball handler to dribble away from his teammates who were all on the opposite side of the court and wide so he was either going to make the tough shot or make the impossible wrap around pass that he tried. Excellent defense coaching.

[INDalltheway]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

How do you drive 3/4 of the court knowing you've got 4.5 seconds and think a pass nght the basket in traffic is the play? Just draw the foul! Happy to see UF lose. They played like ass in the SEC tournament so I wasn't buying the 1 seed.

They say you have 1 dribble per second and he took 4 dribbles and still tried to pass it. McCollum outcoached Todd Golden who didn't have Walter Clayton Jr to bail them out this year.

As for the opening weekend, I couldn't disagree more that it was a bore. You didn't see the really high seeds pull big upsets, but that set up for a really entertaining R32. Sweet 16 should be even better.

[Atocep]

So Will Wade keeps doing Will Wade things and is leaving NC State after a year to go back to LSU. I don't think LSU has even officially fired their current coach yet.

Rumor is that Self is leaning toward retirement. He's not the same with everyone paying players now.

Hubert Davis out at UNC.

[HerRealName]

Iowa - Nebraska is a beautiful offensive game of basketball.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wade to LSU is the most perfectly on-brand pairing possible.

Scumbag to scumbag.

But my sympathy for NCSU is pretty limited, they knew Wade was a zero character guy when they hired him.

[HerRealName]

Also, the officiating is a mess in the Texas - Purdue game. They seem immune from making a correct call in both directions.

[Young Drachma]

That Nebraska ending was painful as a neutral.

[miami_fan]

I thought I had posted my thoughts on the Wade hiring before but I guess I didn't.

Let's not let LSU off the hook here. Will Wade, Lane Kiffin, and Kim Mulkey is quite the coaching a-hole trifecta.

I refuse to believe that the NC St. AD was that naive as to ignore all the signs that pointed to Wade returning to LSU sooner rather than later. I was not familiar with Wade's strong relationship with Gov. Landry but given what I know about both of those individuals, it makes complete sense. Beyond that, this part in the ESPN article should have told NC State to begin looking for their next head basketball coach.

The first domino for Wade's return came when LSU fired former athletic director Scott Woodward last fall. Part of Woodward's fallout with Landry stemmed from not firing McMahon and bringing back Wade last year.

The next domino was the hiring of LSU president Wade Rousse, who hired Wade at McNeese in the aftermath of Wade's NCAA issues. Rousse came to LSU in November, and this week hired McNeese AD Heath Schroyer, who is close to Wade.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

That Nebraska ending was painful as a neutral.

Being from Iowa I was quite thrilled. I really liked Fran McCafferey as a coach but I don't think a Fran team wins that game. Or maybe I should say for Fran to win it would have to be something like 92-77. But with all of his good teams those games didn't seem to come in the tournament.

My best friend in high school in Iowa now lives in Nebraska and has been a Cornhusker first fan for 40 years. When we first talked about regular season games he was of the opinion Iowa wasn't that good while Nebraska was top 5 rated. My response was with McCollum now running the team we were the kind of team I hated to meet in the tourney when Fran was coach. Play hard defense and work the clock. We beat them in Iowa City, lost in OT at Nebraska and now tonight's game. After the two regular season games his respect meter went up. After tonight? IDK I haven't talked to him yet.

Ben McCollum is an Iowa boy who's dream was to coach the Hawkeyes. I think he's here to stay. Knock on wood.

[Ksyrup]

Let's continue the schedule bitching with the sweet 16 set-up. 20 minutes between game starts, really? They couldn't put like 40-45 minutes between starts so that the second coupled starting game overlapped with the first about to go to halftime? Instead, we got 2 finishes happening at the same damn time, followed by 2 games starting together. WTF.

[Lathum]

Holy shit

[Atocep]

No idea what the hell Boozer was doing there.

[albionmoonlight]

So happy

[Ksyrup]

Eh, less happy that it was Hurley who got the win, but yeah, Duke losing is always fun.

Did anyone see Hurley's 'roids act on the ref immediately after the shot went in? He actually stared him down and kind of touched foreheads with the ref. I would have lost my shit laughing if he had gotten called for a technical. That guy is insufferable.

[cuervo72]

Yeah, that was basically two teams that I can't stand, so...whatever. (If push came to shove I'd probably say that I dislike UCONN more at this point, thanks to their coach and their womens program.)

[NobodyHere]

Duke's loss potentially cost me $48. Blah

[CrimsonFox]

UConn 3 pointer! woooooooooooooooo!

one of the uconn coaches shouted "Let's Fucking GOOOOOOOOOOOO!" after he made it. I read his lips

lolduke

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Eh, less happy that it was Hurley who got the win, but yeah, Duke losing is always fun.

Did anyone see Hurley's 'roids act on the ref immediately after the shot went in? He actually stared him down and kind of touched foreheads with the ref. I would have lost my shit laughing if he had gotten called for a technical. That guy is insufferable.

OMG lol what in the hell is he doing? That's SOOO creepy! I would have laughed in his face. What a dork. THey should fine him.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Eh, less happy that it was Hurley who got the win, but yeah, Duke losing is always fun.

Did anyone see Hurley's 'roids act on the ref immediately after the shot went in? He actually stared him down and kind of touched foreheads with the ref. I would have lost my shit laughing if he had gotten called for a technical. That guy is insufferable.

I would have laughed initially but I would have been pissed that the ref decided to make him or her self the story. I am throwing up a little as I type this because giving credit to game officials is almost as upsetting for me as seeing Duke win. However that was good officiating. The game has accepted Hurley's crap all season because right or wrong, he is a two time championship coach and one of the few that still has a personality. The resumes are not the same but IMO this is Danny being Danny in a similar way it was Bobby(Knight) being Bobby.

[CrimsonFox]

[Ksyrup]

It's hard to square that with an NFL WR geting a PF after a play in the end zone when he goes to point at something and a ref walks into his shoulder.

Unless that was an Eskimo kiss, then it's all good.

[Swaggs]

I don't know if it is true, but I read that the reason it didn't become more of an issue was that the ref said something to Hurley and Hurley leaned in because he couldn't hear him while the ref was walking forward to get closer to repeat it. So, it was more of an awkward interaction in a loud arena than an exuberant head butt. It does look wild with his coat on his shoulder like that and that he looks like he's rubbing his head in after the initial contact.

[RainMaker]

Some reporter talked to the ref after the game and he seemed to imply he had no clue what they were talking about so maybe it was just a random incidental contact after the play.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I don't know if it is true, but I read that the reason it didn't become more of an issue was that the ref said something to Hurley and Hurley leaned in because he couldn't hear him while the ref was walking forward to get closer to repeat it. So, it was more of an awkward interaction in a loud arena than an exuberant head butt. It does look wild with his coat on his shoulder like that and that he looks like he's rubbing his head in after the initial contact.

And he leans in, stares him down, doesn't say a word, etc.

I mean, I can understand both of them downplaying it, but it certainly looked awkward and confrontational, to say the least.

[miami_fan]

Uh Geno, they are going to take your real man card if you keep acting like that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

We're in a world where Geno Auriemma feels like one of the last good guys in his line of work.

That's like having Darth Vader as your sympathetic central character.

[Ghost Econ]

Can we stop with the "women's basketball is more fundamentally sound..." bullshit? It's like saying college basketball is more pure than the NBA. No, they just aren't as talented and it's easier to see when a basic basketball skill is used because the people playing against them aren't as good at stopping it. The number of poor ball-handling, idiotic passes, terrible shots and missed layups in the women's game should be unacceptable to anyone watching.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Can we stop with the "women's basketball is more fundamentally sound..." bullshit? It's like saying college basketball is more pure than the NBA. No, they just aren't as talented and it's easier to see when a basic basketball skill is used because the people playing against them aren't as good at stopping it. The number of poor ball-handling, idiotic passes, terrible shots and missed layups in the women's game should be unacceptable to anyone watching.

The ceiling is solid. The average is pretty meh.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Georgia and women's basketball coach Katie Abrahamson-Henderson have "mutually agreed to part ways," the school announced Saturday morning.

Not something that seems to have been expected, but comes in the wake of six players announcing their intent to enter the transfer portal, including four of their top five scorers.

What buzz there is seems to center on a lack of NIL dollars for the program, which when combined with similar rumors about Tennessee, makes me kind of wonder if the choice in the NIL era is going to be whether to have an upper tier women's basketball program OR an upper tier baseball program. The money may simply not be there for many places to be able to fund both.

[JPhillips]

Geno/Staley heat is good for the game.

[Ksyrup]

I watched about 2 quarters between both games combined last night. The only women's basketball I've watched this year. That was the worst of the best, I'd say. But at least Mulkey wasn't there.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Can we stop with the "women's basketball is more fundamentally sound..." bullshit? It's like saying college basketball is more pure than the NBA. No, they just aren't as talented and it's easier to see when a basic basketball skill is used because the people playing against them aren't as good at stopping it. The number of poor ball-handling, idiotic passes, terrible shots and missed layups in the women's game should be unacceptable to anyone watching.

Can we stop comparing men's basketball to women's basketball?

Can we stop comparing NBA basketball to WNBA basketball?

Can we stop comparing NBA basketball to men's college basketball?

Can we stop comparing WNBA basketball to women's college basketball?

Can we stop comparing men's basketball talent to women's basketball talent?

Can we stop comparing the talent of NBA basketball players to the talent of men's college basketball players? (The opposite makes sense if you are projecting whether the college basketball talent can make the stop up to the NBA.)

Can we stop comparing the talent of WNBA basketball players to the talent of women's college basketball players? (The opposite makes sense here for the same reason as above.

Here is why it is not a good idea to make such comparisons just looking at "layups".

In 2013-2014 NBA players had a shooting percentage of 64% on shots from 0-3 feet. WNBA players had a shooting percentage of 64% on shots from 0-3 feet.

In the men's game, pace and space, more 3PAs and because everyone was shooting threes, rim protectors were moving away from the basketball allowing for about a 29% increase in dunks took over the game along with less physicality allowed in the men's game. In the women's game, there has been a increase in the number of threes but not nearly as much as the men. But the rim protectors are still there if for no other reason than they still have a chance to block those layups and/or then don't have to worry about being posterized the way their male counterparts do. Finally, the physicality stayed if not increased in the women's game. The result?

In 2023-2024, NBA players had a 70% shooting percentage on shots from 0-3 feet from the basket. WNBA players had a 65% shooting percentage from 0-3 feet. My guess is if you take away dunks in the men's game you would once again similar numbers in layup shooting percentage in both the men's and women's game. If you want to look at the turnovers, mean turnovers per team hover around 15.03 in the WNBA, mean turnovers per team are higher at roughly 21.98 in the NBA. Again, there are reasons but none that require a comparison between the men's and women's game.

I don't know about anyone else but whenever I or anyone I was around talked about the women/girls being more fundamentally sound, it was because the women/girls were more likely to make the two handed bounce pass instead of a one handed that also had a spin on it, use the backboard when going in for a layup instead of trying to dunk the ball, be better at the free throw lines and run the bleepin play that was called exactly the way they were taught instead of deciding they were going to show off their Jordan or Kobe skills and going one on five even if they were individually good enough to do so. Sorry, started getting flashbacks of former players who were less fundamentally sound.

[albionmoonlight]

Geno's been coaching UCONN for over 40 years. He's won every accolade possible. Time to hang it up. It isn't like he's going to become less cantankerous with age.

Enjoy a well-earned retirement.

[miami_fan]

Since I am in a bit of a sour mood, I guess I can comment on the NBA MVP race and the 65 games played minimum requirement that everyone was super excited for.

I would never want a player to suffer any sort of injury at this point of the season. However, it would be hilarious to have Jamal Murray, Jalen Johnson,
Jalen Duren and Chet Holmgren be the only guys who hit the requirement and force the NBA to tap into the "near misses" and other provisions to get guys like Luka into the running.

[Atocep]

WVU playing in the crown championship game today against OU, who's led by Nigel Pack, who WVU played against when he was a freshman in the Big 12 and he played for KState. That WVU team was led by Deuce McBride, who's now a 5 year NBA vet. He was in the same recruiting class as Cade Cunningham, who's on his 2nd NBA contract.

You can question why Trump is issuing an EO on college sports, but I don't think anyone can deny that something needs to be done. These guys on their 3rd and 4th school and playing their 6th, 7th, 8th, and even 9th year of eligibility needs to end.

[Danny]

What an awful final four between the men and woman this year. Hopefully uconn michigan can be a good game or itll be one of the worst i can remember