Yet another school shooting.

[panerd]

I feel like every set of boxings and bannings has led to less and less people posting. I mean I have gotten older, have a family, haven't played FOF in years... I realize all this contributes but so do the boxings. Never understood why it was so hard for people to ignore extreme views from either side. Ignore button...

I know, I know...

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by panerd

Dude it's a gangland execution. Sorry but it's not a bunch of innocent 1st graders being gunned down by a psychopath.

Agreed.
Just to further that point, how many school shootings are a result of gang violence?
How do we define gang?
How many mass shootings are a result of gang violence?
Are the neo nazi/aryan brotherhood types not just gangs. As much as the bloods or the crips?



Warning the following statement will completely oppose what some here think of me.
I think there is a media bias to the death of white kids. For whatever reason 'white kids gunned down at school' generates eyeballs, it generates shock value.
I think its one of the poignant yet simple things Eminem rapped about (damn has it really be nearly) 20 years ago.

'Middle America? Now its a tragedy. Now its sad to see. An upper class city having this happening'


When it was blacks shooting blacks it doesnt sell. That may be sad, but true.


On the flip side of the coin, cops shooting white folks doesnt sell or outrage. Cops shooting black people does.



Despite everyone saying they have no prejudice, society as a whole does stereotype and we prove it by what we consume. Trust me, if tens oof thousands tuned in to see the latest updates on St Louis gang shootings...CNN would send an armored news van to record the shit. But the truth is we would not watch in large numbers. Large swaths of the country would just say 'Its just blacks shooting blacks what do you expect'



So it doesnt garner any attention.






Another thing I've thought about a lot recently, and Ive never read this mentioned anywhere.


I wonder if school shootings are up, in some small part, because thats the only place kids see each other.
When I was in high school after school all the guys went to the rec and played ball or down to the armory and played ball and the gamers gathered at each others house and played games or at the mall and the arcade.


Now gamers play online, my son is a 3 sport athlete and outside of organized sports I bet he hasnt played pick up 5 times in his 4 year high school career. That was any given week for my generation.


I remember in high school there was 1 murder I knew of. (Ive talked before about others I grew up with in boarding or foster who I lost but they were either went to different HS or happened in junior high) it happened at the armory mentioned above during a basketball game. Two dudes were fighting over some stupid girl and one stabbed the other. Today that probably happens at school because they dont see each other anywhere else.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by panerd

I feel like every set of boxings and bannings has led to less and less people posting. I mean I have gotten older, have a family, haven't played FOF in years... I realize all this contributes but so do the boxings. Never understood why it was so hard for people to ignore extreme views from either side. Ignore button...

I know, I know...

The way people use the internet has changed as well. I love forums like these. The ones have been a part of for a long time have a lot less users today then they did 5-10 years ago. The OOTP forums is another example. Early to mid 2000s there were a ton of people here and there.

[Lathum]

Counterpoint-

It may happen because they rarely. Kids spend so much time online these days. Back in the day if a kid was bullied it was during school then he went home and could get away from it. Now with the internet that abuse is literally 24-7 and out there for everyone to see. I think it sets a lot of kids over the edge.

I honestly think if we could fix the problems with bullying a lot of this would go away.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Counterpoint-

It may happen because they rarely. Kids spend so much time online these days. Back in the day if a kid was bullied it was during school then he went home and could get away from it. Now with the internet that abuse is literally 24-7 and out there for everyone to see. I think it sets a lot of kids over the edge.

I honestly think if we could fix the problems with bullying a lot of this would go away.

That's a great point as well.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Counterpoint-

It may happen because they rarely. Kids spend so much time online these days. Back in the day if a kid was bullied it was during school then he went home and could get away from it. Now with the internet that abuse is literally 24-7 and out there for everyone to see. I think it sets a lot of kids over the edge.

I honestly think if we could fix the problems with bullying a lot of this would go away.

In a recent report (again by the FBI) released in.2018, 88% of the school mass shooters in incidents from 2001-2013 were severely bullied at some point prior to that. Not saying fixing bullying is the answer, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

In a recent report (again by the FBI) released in.2018, 88% of the school mass shooters in incidents from 2001-2013 were severely bullied at some point prior to that. Not saying fixing bullying is the answer, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

But whats the general pop stat?
I'd posit that darn near 100% of all kids are bullied at some point, especially as the term has come to be defined today.


Again not making light of bullying and I do understand the damage it can cause, and not sayings its ok. Just saying most kids experience it at some point.



Its like say 95% of all school shooters had played either an Xbox or a Playstation

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

But whats the general pop stat?
I'd posit that darn near 100% of all kids are bullied at some point, especially as the term has come to be defined today.


Again not making light of bullying and I do understand the damage it can cause, and not sayings its ok. Just saying most kids experience it at some point.



Its like say 95% of all school shooters had played either an Xbox or a Playstation

I think you are vastly underestimating the effects of systematic bullying.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

But whats the general pop stat?
I'd posit that darn near 100% of all kids are bullied at some point, especially as the term has come to be defined today.


Again not making light of bullying and I do understand the damage it can cause, and not sayings its ok. Just saying most kids experience it at some point.



Its like say 95% of all school shooters had played either an Xbox or a Playstation

I have had this thought as well, and I don't have the statistics at hand to say one way or another.

What I can tell you is that the FBI report made an effort to determine that the bullying was extensive and/or severe and usually occurred at the school that the shooter eventually assaulted.

This was part of a report on the pre-incident commonalities and warning signs of mass school shooters, and was intended to give schools, parents and law enforcement tools on how to ID potential mass shooters prior to their attacks. Because in almost every incidence the signs are there.

[Lathum]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/31/us/vi...m_source=twCNN

[QuikSand]

Just another hashtag, whatevs #America

[kingfc22]

Let’s do all we can for an 8 week old fetus via rape and incest though. Hoorah

[tarcone]

A very small percentage of abortions happen due to Incest and rape.

Everything os politicized. When does common sense happen? Never? Are we in the 1984 type world?

Good luck to all

[Brian Swartz]

There's also the part where, last I checked, mass murders weren't legalized and endorsed by the government. That's a rather massive difference.

[stevew]

Thoughts and Prayers

[panerd]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Just another hashtag, whatevs #America

Yep, 12 dead and not even a big story. Years ago this would have interrupted evening programming. In a sick, backwards way maybe this has a small positive result... nobody gives a shit. At least if there is some loser copycat in the wings they may think twice about their blaze of glory. (Or more scary try to come up with another plan, method, to "break the record") So senseless.

[NobodyHere]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/virginia-...-good-standing

Well there seems to go the 'disgruntled employee' motive.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

https://www.foxnews.com/us/virginia-...-good-standing

Well there seems to go the 'disgruntled employee' motive.

Guy was on a "Performance Improvement Plan" which is the first step the city takes to fire someone.

[stevew]

Sounds like he went postal

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Guy was on a "Performance Improvement Plan" which is the first step the city takes to fire someone.

Where did you get this information from?

[Izulde]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/u...sultPosition=1

Looks like there were signs after all recently

[stevew]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Where did you get this information from?

He’s a va beach cop I think

[QuikSand]

Torrance CA? Hard to keep up. Back to television.

[tarcone]

This is a society problem. My daughter just got home from working at 6 flags. Said the creepy guy got suspended. I asked why? She said he threatened to kill someone. Turns out his ex who he dated for 5 years and has 2 kids with showed up at 6 flags with a new BF.

People are not stable.

[NobodyHere]

Looks like they're really trying to drop the hammer on this guy

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/u...-peterson.html

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Torrance CA? Hard to keep up. Back to television.

Weirdly, that's the second shooting outside of a Skechers in a mall I know of in the last week or so. The other one was at Fashion Show Mall here in Vegas.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Looks like they're really trying to drop the hammer on this guy

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/u...-peterson.html

I am wrestling with how I feel about this one. On the one hand this was clearly dude's job and he didn't do it and likely cost some kids' lives, on the other hand he seems to be acting as a surrogate for everybody's rage and frustration and I think punishing the school resource officer as harshly as possible seems like a shitty substitute for substantive cultural change.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I am wrestling with how I feel about this one. On the one hand this was clearly dude's job and he didn't do it and likely cost some kids' lives, on the other hand he seems to be acting as a surrogate for everybody's rage and frustration and I think punishing the school resource officer as harshly as possible seems like a shitty substitute for substantive cultural change.

Yeah, kind of feel the same way here. I wonder how many critics would be willing to run into a situation where they are outgunned.

On the other hand this guy signed up to do that but decided that he'd rather go home to his wife, kids, and 8k/month pension.

[cuervo72]

Yep. Cowardice may be despicable, but I never realized it was criminal.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Yep. Cowardice may be despicable, but I never realized it was criminal.

I'm conflicted as well, but I don't think I agree 100% with this statement. The guy had a job that he (allegedly) didn't do and people died as a result. If you are the food safety officer that just doesn't bother to inspect a bunch of restaurants and 10 people die from e-coli, or you are the guy who inspects airbags for Toyota but you are off smoking doobies and defective airbags kill a bunch of toddlers, I think it's pretty reasonable to at least expect criminal charge are coming your way.

I'm conflicted because of 2 reasons - firstly, I don't see how we can possibly really know what he thought was going on, his explanation that he thought the shots were coming from outside the building and his training called for him to assess the situation sounds plausible enough to me and secondly I'm just not sure we should be in a situation as a society where we whack a gun in the hand of somebody, pay them minimum wage and then expect them to have responsibility to take down somebody who might have an AK, shotgun and a bunch of hand grenades. Like somebody said, I think this guy is the magnet for a bunch of rage that should be directed elsewhere (and that's not a political statement no matter how you feel about gun control) - but I think it's perfectly reasonable that if he's shown to have derilicted his duty that he stands trial for it. I'm not sure if that makes any sense or not.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by stevew

He’s a va beach cop I think

Yep. Man just had evil in his heart. He wasn't mentally ill, just evil. He knew exactly what he was doing and just didn't give a fuck.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Yep. Man just had evil in his heart. He wasn't mentally ill, just evil. He knew exactly what he was doing and just didn't give a fuck.

Kind of like the Vegas shooter?

[illinifan999]

Virginia Beach shooter appeared to target supervisors in his department | WTKR.com

[molson]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Yep. Cowardice may be despicable, but I never realized it was criminal.

Cowardice is not generally criminal, but Florida has statutes specifically covering people classified as caregivers for children which criminalizes neglect.

A school nurse could be charged under the same statute if they say, refused to treat a bleeding student because they thought blood was gross. Whereas you and I don't have to get involved in either a shooting or a medical emergency.

The legal question in this case is whether a school resource officer is a "caregiver" under the statute. A regular police officer is specifically, by statute, not a caregiver under Florida law and couldn't be charged like this. Peterson's defense team has already filed a motion to reduce bond which includes argument that Peterson isn't a caregiver, and I'm sure they'll file a motion to dismiss on that ground later. The answer to that question will turn on what his duties were, what his training was, etc. Or the parties could settle before then rather than risk the outcome of that motion.

[miami_fan]

Step one complete

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...231246058.html

[NobodyHere]

Yeah I don't think there's any reason for him to spend time in jail or have to post bond before any conviction. That should be reserved for people who are actual threats.

[illinifan999]

VB Council holds off on backing bill that could allow for guns to be banned from public buildings | WAVY.com

Because telling a person that was willing to kill 12 people that he wasn't allowed to have a gun in a city building is productive....

[illinifan999]

I really hate how the news doesn't necessarily report "fake news", but just doesn't have any idea of what the fuck they are talking about because of the people they can interview in these cases.

Knowing what I know from responding to and being involved in this shooting, it really makes me question what happened in others....

I also still hate May 31, 2019.

[RainMaker]

In another shocking twist, the Garlic Festival shooter happens to be a white supremacist too.

[Thomkal]

shocking!

[cuervo72]

There was also the guy who killed his mom/brother/nephew, then broke into another house and killed a woman and injured her parents in a possible Jayme Closs copycat attempted kidnapping.

http://www.fox9.com/news/victims-sho...county-murders

Seems like just a run-of-the-mill deranged white guy though.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

There was also the guy who killed his mom/brother/nephew, then broke into another house and killed a woman and injured her parents in a possible Jayme Closs copycat attempted kidnapping.

http://www.fox9.com/news/victims-sho...county-murders

Seems like just a run-of-the-mill deranged white guy though.

Damn I used to live around there. These crimes in Wisconsin seem so weird because they are typically such safe places. I was across the river but I never locked my door.

[Edward64]

Ouch, hope its not too bad.

BREAKING: Confirmed active shooter at Walmart near Cielo Vista Mall | KTSM 9 News

EL PASO, Texas (KTSM) —

UPDATE: KTSM can confirm that 18 people were shot inside the Walmart. The extent of their injuries is unknown at this time.

El Paso Police and multiple other law enforcement agencies are responding to a shooting at the Walmart an active shooter situation.

Details are limited at this time.

[Ben E Lou]

Seemingly-credible reports of multiple fatalities.

[Ben E Lou]

Ugh. Now police are confirming 18 deaths.

[MrBug708]

My bosses mom was in the mall at the time, but got out safely

[Edward64]

3 taken into custody ... 3 shooters?

[EagleFan]

One report said single shooter but another said 3. Who knows what is right this early with these situations.

[Ben E Lou]

The mayor said 3. The PD said one. I'm inclined to believe the PD.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola: Not only are they the ones closest to the events, but also because it's rare that there are multiple shooters in these types of incidents.