Werewolf XCVIII - 24 Day Game Over - Post 2899

[DaddyTorgo]

I think if we look in that small group we are likely to find one wolf, and then also find a wolf in my list of "people who claim powers we can test but that wouldn't necessarily be beyond a wolf to use to try to buy trust" and maybe even a cunning that's wormed its way into my CoT (though of course we look there last)

[Autumn]

I'm interested in looking at anything at this point, but I was just about to post saying I think maybe we should start looking at voting records, or thread behavior. Frankly, going off the info you're able to collect in PMs has not been working. I think in the end it will work out for us, especially as you're able to protect the seer. But until you get a wolf scan I'm kind of inclined to just have us work things out in thread. I may be biased because I almost got axed over it, but we could have easily had three villager kills off of PM suspicions. I think it's good if you can wave us away from lynches you think would be poor though.

If I can get some food into me I'm going to look at some votes and make some suggestions.

[DaddyTorgo]

if you cross-reference, both people who "pushed quickly to use powers on autumn" are both on the list of "people who could publicly display their powers and yet still be a wolf seeking to buy trust" also - just FYI

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'm interested in looking at anything at this point, but I was just about to post saying I think maybe we should start looking at voting records, or thread behavior. Frankly, going off the info you're able to collect in PMs has not been working. I think in the end it will work out for us, especially as you're able to protect the seer. But until you get a wolf scan I'm kind of inclined to just have us work things out in thread. I may be biased because I almost got axed over it, but we could have easily had three villager kills off of PM suspicions. I think it's good if you can wave us away from lynches you think would be poor though.

If I can get some food into me I'm going to look at some votes and make some suggestions.

fair enough. i have no problem with that. i am only one of...whatever...14 good guys left?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

are you all interested in looking at that "claims a role that cannot be publicly verified" grouping?

I'm interested, but I'm not sure if it's the best idea to tell me just cuz I wanna know. So it's your call, I guess.

[Danny]

I have no problem with using DT's lists as a guide which is used in conjunction with voting records and thread behavior. What I really want to know most right now is the affiliation of PB as he was a key player in two votes.

[Autumn]

Thoughts on last night. PB and Danny were the first to jump on my bandwagon, PB doing it a minute after DT posted. Given that PB has avoided lynches two days in a row that interests me. Danny voted me, unvoted me once some people suggested we don't instalynch, and then voted me again once some more "evidence" came out. By itself not anything, but Danny's been pinging me for reasons I'll have to go back and find.

Chief Rum, EF, Issidqui and nfg22 were the others to jump on me. NFG22 has already pinged me, so jumping on last to try to pump up the numbers might add to the suspicion. Nothing rock hard on anyone here, but something to look at.

I"ll be looking at other votes next.

[Danny]

I object to the claim, I only ping my wife!

[DaddyTorgo]

Okay, here's a summary breakdown

without names it looks like this (T=trust, H=high, M=medium, n=no trust/no info)

HT - Myself
HT
HT
HT
HT
HT

MT
MT
MT

HT? - cleared and linked to un-HT person (who we are calling MT now, cuz if both were wolves it'd be very ballsy - especially given wolves are not under-pressure yet)

NI - 7 more

I think that's the total number of players - if not I'm missing people in NI

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

fair enough. i have no problem with that. i am only one of...whatever...14 good guys left?

We're 19 now? Five wolves is your guess .... that seems fair enough. Less than that with your abilities would have been a hard game for the wolves.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't want to respond to everyone's comments about every player and give pluses or minuses, that will just stunt discussion and help the wolves narrow down targets. I'd prefer to wait till a conclusion is reached thru discussion and then give a thumbs-up or thumbs-down on the candidates

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Danny

I object to the claim, I only ping my wife!

That's why I could never understand why you pinged me ;-)

[ISiddiqui]

I think a combination of looking at the roles that can't be publically verified along with voting history/posts, etc would be the best role. Let's not throw all our eggs in one basket, but use everything we have to try to determine something off.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Telle

My guess is someone has a soothsayer role and DT wanted it used on saldana.

i pretty much knew that, but wasnt going to draw attention to it...keeping something like that hidden could have allowed for it to be used as a trap on a suspect...which you have now made much less likely.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

if you cross-reference, both people who "pushed quickly to use powers on autumn" are both on the list of "people who could publicly display their powers and yet still be a wolf seeking to buy trust" also - just FYI

That is interesting. You're right, definitely sounds wolfish, good way to "gain trust" and off me as well, especially if they got the idea that my role could out them.

I didn't mean to shoot down the idea of you giving us anything to work on. I just think we all need to flex our mental muscles.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I wasn't saying it was. I was just setting the scene. Sorry, I guess I could have come through with the percent. It looks like 9/21 is required to lynch. My thinking on Alan was that his vote counted double, making us actually 9/22, but that would have given us a lynch, so my read on him is off.

Any thoughts on Pass guys?

Day 1 he has a throw away vote on a known villager (BrianD)
Day 2 he brings up the idea that Alan's vote counts for double...which turns out to be true after he is killed by the wolves...however DT and path have claimed to be the the advisors so what would make Pass think this?
He also was the one to drop the hammer on clap over PB.

[DaddyTorgo]

i don't blame pass for his d1 throwaway vote, or even for his dropping the hammer on clap, as i fully endorsed and pushed the clap vote.

[Autumn]

I really need to reformat this voting list but I'm finding the day one vote interesting. Jackal has somehow slipped off the radar after getting a lot of votes up and down Day 1. NTN and PB also got a lot of votes day one but managed to slip off the radar with KWhit getting axed. Interestingly it was NTN, Saldana, PB and then Tyrith who unvoted off of Jackal, with NTN introducing KWhit as a candidate.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by saldana

i pretty much knew that, but wasnt going to draw attention to it...keeping something like that hidden could have allowed for it to be used as a trap on a suspect...which you have now made much less likely.

there are 1300 posts in the thread. i'm sure we'll be okay.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Any thoughts on Pass guys?

Day 1 he has a throw away vote on a known villager (BrianD)
Day 2 he brings up the idea that Alan's vote counts for double...which turns out to be true after he is killed by the wolves...however DT and path have claimed to be the the advisors so what would make Pass think this?
He also was the one to drop the hammer on clap over PB.

I'll have to look at his votes, but I don't think the Day 2 thing means anything. Alan had made clear in his posts that someone was voting double and I assumed that it was probably him. I'm sure others did too.

[DaddyTorgo]

here's a philosophical question - do we assume that the wolves have the standard powers of their character plus the ability to night-kill?

i have been assuming they do.

so like...if i was a wolf i'd have all my jack-bauer character powers plus the night kill ability as opposed to just having "the name jack bauer and no powers except the night-kill ability"

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

here's a philosophical question - do we assume that the wolves have the standard powers of their character plus the ability to night-kill?

i have been assuming they do.

so like...if i was a wolf i'd have all my jack-bauer character powers plus the night kill ability as opposed to just having "the name jack bauer and no powers except the night-kill ability"

Good point. I guess I'd say they have their own abilities, but then they woudln't need to be faking roles and powers, would they? Maybe that's the problem with going after suspicious role reveals in PM and why it hasn't been working.

I think if I think back to the Marvel game everyone had powers, plus the wolves had night kills. Might be the same here, though I wonder if the wolves would have powers tailored to being a wolf, or if they'd just have neutral powers that could work for either side?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I really need to reformat this voting list but I'm finding the day one vote interesting. Jackal has somehow slipped off the radar after getting a lot of votes up and down Day 1. NTN and PB also got a lot of votes day one but managed to slip off the radar with KWhit getting axed. Interestingly it was NTN, Saldana, PB and then Tyrith who unvoted off of Jackal, with NTN introducing KWhit as a candidate.

Well, I think what happened is that Jack gave me a vote of confidence, and I think I know where I am on his trust list.

The people that unvoted me is an interesting bunch.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Good point. I guess I'd say they have their own abilities, but then they woudln't need to be faking roles and powers, would they? Maybe that's the problem with going after suspicious role reveals in PM and why it hasn't been working.

I think if I think back to the Marvel game everyone had powers, plus the wolves had night kills. Might be the same here, though I wonder if the wolves would have powers tailored to being a wolf, or if they'd just have neutral powers that could work for either side?

I wouldn't say I'm going after suspicious role-reveals in PM's anymore at this point. That gave us something on D1 and D2 to at least push the game in some direction, but what I'm doing at this point is more nuanced than that.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Good point. I guess I'd say they have their own abilities, but then they woudln't need to be faking roles and powers, would they? Maybe that's the problem with going after suspicious role reveals in PM and why it hasn't been working.

I think if I think back to the Marvel game everyone had powers, plus the wolves had night kills. Might be the same here, though I wonder if the wolves would have powers tailored to being a wolf, or if they'd just have neutral powers that could work for either side?

I can think of a lot of roles that would fit into the style of this game that could either work for a villager or wolf role. I've assumed the whole game that the wolves have actual abilities in addition to NKs.

[Autumn]

That's right, DT did say he'd vote elsewhere than you. DT, do you still feel the same about Jackal?

[DaddyTorgo]

[quote=The Jackal;2068449]Well, I think what happened is that Jack gave me a vote of confidence, and I think I know where I am on his trust list.
[quote]



we're going to disagree on this

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I can think of a lot of roles that would fit into the style of this game that could either work for a villager or wolf role. I've assumed the whole game that the wolves have actual abilities in addition to NKs.

yep. and one of those is your role.

[The Jackal]

[quote=DaddyTorgo;2068454][quote=The Jackal;2068449]Well, I think what happened is that Jack gave me a vote of confidence, and I think I know where I am on his trust list.

we're going to disagree on this

What do we disagree about? I'm not saying a vote of confidence in that "you know I'm good" or anything like that. Just that I wasn't a great way to go on day 1, and that's why people unvoted me.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

That's right, DT did say he'd vote elsewhere than you. DT, do you still feel the same about Jackal?

nope. that was purely a one-time thing because at that point not everyone had revealed to me.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I wouldn't say I'm going after suspicious role-reveals in PM's anymore at this point. That gave us something on D1 and D2 to at least push the game in some direction, but what I'm doing at this point is more nuanced than that.

I mean suspicious in the sense that it's based on the idea that the wolves don't have powers they'd be willing to reveal. That seems to be what some of your trust list is based on, right? Other than some powers being undenaibly good for the village and some neutral.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

yep. and one of those is your role.

I'm aware of that, thanks.

[DaddyTorgo]

[quote=The Jackal;2068456][quote=DaddyTorgo;2068454]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Well, I think what happened is that Jack gave me a vote of confidence, and I think I know where I am on his trust list.


What do we disagree about? I'm not saying a vote of confidence in that "you know I'm good" or anything like that. Just that I wasn't a great way to go on day 1, and that's why people unvoted me.

okay - fair enough. we agree then.

just didn't want people getting the wrong idea

[The Jackal]

[quote=DaddyTorgo;2068460][quote=The Jackal;2068456]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

okay - fair enough. we agree then.

just didn't want people getting the wrong idea

Yeah, that's fair.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I mean suspicious in the sense that it's based on the idea that the wolves don't have powers they'd be willing to reveal. That seems to be what some of your trust list is based on, right? Other than some powers being undenaibly good for the village and some neutral.

no...not really. my "trust list" isn't based on that at all. Well at least not until you get down to "MT". And the "MT" people have demonstrated their powers to me multiple times to our collective benefit, so they've got some trust, but I'm not blind to the idea they could be wolves. my "list of people's role types" is based on that, but everyone except i think one person at this point that is on the "list of role types" list is a NI.

[The Jackal]

All I can offer for myself at this juncture is that I didn't vote for KWhit or clap and had ample opportunity too. I really didn't think either of them was a wolf. And yes, wolves know who the wolves are, I'm aware, but the voting record is what it is.

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

here's a philosophical question - do we assume that the wolves have the standard powers of their character plus the ability to night-kill?

i have been assuming they do.

so like...if i was a wolf i'd have all my jack-bauer character powers plus the night kill ability as opposed to just having "the name jack bauer and no powers except the night-kill ability"

I'm not sure I totally follow where you're going right now (which is fine), but if you're asking here whether a wolf can both use their "power" AND night kill in the same day I would guess it is either one or the other in a particular day.

But that's just my gut on how I'd design a wolf role.

[nfg22]

The did kill two people in one day...

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

no...not really. my "trust list" isn't based on that at all. Well at least not until you get down to "MT". And the "MT" people have demonstrated their powers to me multiple times to our collective benefit, so they've got some trust, but I'm not blind to the idea they could be wolves. my "list of people's role types" is based on that, but everyone except i think one person at this point that is on the "list of role types" list is a NI.

I think we're talking past each other, probably just because I'm trying to work and do this at the same time.

I just mean that we may not be able to garner much from chasing the people on your "role that couldn't be publicly proven" or your "roles that ...." gah, this is what I mean, my mind's blanking. *sigh* Anyway, that if we assume the wolves all have regular abilities also this might be chasing up a tree, and also why things like going after clap for his similar ability didn't work. Maybe they don't have to fake abilities.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by nfg22

The did kill two people in one day...

I thought we were assuming a villager killed the foreigner guy. DT, do you know one way or the other? Does that make any sense from what you know of the roles?

If the wolves really did make two kills, what does that mean?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i don't blame pass for his d1 throwaway vote, or even for his dropping the hammer on clap, as i fully endorsed and pushed the clap vote.

However, it should be noted that I did put the first vote on clap, pushed him to reveal his role, unvoted him when he did (after DT had voted for him), then revoted him afterward. I definitely had my own angle on clap, and I don't want it to look like I was just following DT here for the heck of it when I wasn't.

As for Alan, I thought I was just saying what everyone was thinking. I wouldn't have if not for the fact that I thought that if what I was thinking was true, it meant we should have had a lynch then.

And I explained why I voted Brian the next day. I do remember he's been cleared since then, although since I don't know why, that won't really be 100% for me at this time.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

All I can offer for myself at this juncture is that I didn't vote for KWhit or clap and had ample opportunity too. I really didn't think either of them was a wolf. And yes, wolves know who the wolves are, I'm aware, but the voting record is what it is.

Which may or may not mean anything depending on the allegiance of PB and NTN

[path12]

Purdue is still the person I'm most curious about at this moment.

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[DaddyTorgo]

as i am typing up a big PM to someone, i am leaning towards an EF vote

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Danny

Which may or may not mean anything depending on the allegiance of PB and NTN

Right, but I'm not particularly confident about either of them being a wolf. Maybe PB is the way to go today, though.

[Autumn]

My best bet combing over voting records is that Jackal and NFG are wolves. NFG voted Path early then switched to NTN to put him well ahead of Jackal Day one. Day two NFG voted clap early to make him lead contender.

VOTE NFG22

[Thomkal]

Me too Path. I don't want to start a bandwagon on him, but if he turns out to be a wolf after two days of nearly being the lynch target, it would open up a lot of avenues to explore.

What's your level of trust on PB right now, DT?

[The Jackal]

Well, Autumn, I'm definitely not a wolf. In fact, I've only sent 2 PMs and they were to DT on the first day. But I'm not essential to us, so if we need to come after me some day so be it.

[DaddyTorgo]

didn't i discuss PB earlier? i swear i did.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

as i am typing up a big PM to someone, i am leaning towards an EF vote

I assume he's on one of those suspect lists. I'll be interested to hear what you come up with.