The 2010 MLB Season Thread - Page 28

molson · 06-02-2010, 10:19 PM

I went to ESPN.com to read about Griffey and saw this on the front page instead. I just LOL'd, unreal.

The Joyce hate is a silly though, seriously. He missed a call. Made a mistake. If Gallaraga had made a mistake, and allowed an double off the wall - nobody would be calling for his neck. Mistakes are part of the game. Even when they're at times like this. But when an umpire makes it - people just get so upset.

cmp · 06-02-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I went to ESPN.com to read about Griffey and saw this on the front page instead. I just LOL'd, unreal.

The Joyce hate is a silly though, seriously. He missed a call. Made a mistake. If Gallaraga had made a mistake, and allowed an double off the wall - nobody would be calling for his neck. Mistakes are part of the game. Even when they're at times like this. But when an umpire makes it - people just get so upset.

If Gallaraga makes a mistake its part of the game. These type of mistakes should not be.

MJ4H · 06-02-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I went to ESPN.com to read about Griffey and saw this on the front page instead. I just LOL'd, unreal.

The Joyce hate is a silly though, seriously. He missed a call. Made a mistake. If Gallaraga had made a mistake, and allowed an double off the wall - nobody would be calling for his neck. Mistakes are part of the game. Even when they're at times like this. But when an umpire makes it - people just get so upset.

This was kind of a big spot to eff up a call that was that obvious, man.

molson · 06-02-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmp

If Gallaraga makes a mistake its part of the game. These type of mistakes should not be.

What types of mistakes? Those made by umpires?

molson · 06-02-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ4H

This was kind of a big spot to eff up a call that was that obvious, man.

Sure. Just like if a batter struck out on a bad swing in a big spot. It's a very untimely mistake.

That doesn't mean Joyce needs to be executed or whatever. Or that people need to completely lose their shit and literally HATE the guy.

Honolulu_Blue · 06-02-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

What types of mistakes? Those made by umpires?

There is a significant difference between a mistake by a player affecting the outcome of a game and a mistake by an official affecting the outcome of a game.

If you don't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.

molson · 06-02-2010, 10:25 PM

Bad calls can be frustrating when they're against you're team, we've all been there. But they're not some kind of personal insult against someone that deserves that kind of response.

larrymcg421 · 06-02-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmp

If Gallaraga makes a mistake its part of the game. These type of mistakes should not be.

But they are. They're always going to be part of the game when you have humans deciding who is and isn't safe. If these types of mistakes shouldn't be part of the game, then the answer isn't to fire each human who happens to make such a mistake at a really bad time, it's to take humans out of the equation entirely.

Honolulu_Blue · 06-02-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I went to ESPN.com to read about Griffey and saw this on the front page instead. I just LOL'd, unreal.

The Joyce hate is a silly though, seriously. He missed a call. Made a mistake. If Gallaraga had made a mistake, and allowed an double off the wall - nobody would be calling for his neck. Mistakes are part of the game. Even when they're at times like this. But when an umpire makes it - people just get so upset.

Tell the to Bill Buckner or Scott Norwood.

molson · 06-02-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

There is a significant difference between a mistake by a player affecting the outcome of a game and a mistake by an official affecting the outcome of a game.

If you don't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.

How exactly are they different, in terms of the mistake actually being made? (Unless you're saying the umpire missed the call on purpose)

Is the umpire/referee somehow more "guilty" than the player? More worthy of personal hate than the player? Why?

JeffNights · 06-02-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Bad calls can be frustrating when they're against you're team, we've all been there. But they're not some kind of personal insult against someone that deserves that kind of response.

Dude, even the Cleaveland Indians commentators were ripping him a new one. It was a terrible call period.

larrymcg421 · 06-02-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNights

Dude, even the Cleaveland Indians commentators were ripping him a new one. It was a terrible call period.

Which post are you responding to that said it wasn't a terrible call? I see no such post.

molson · 06-02-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNights

Dude, even the Cleaveland Indians commentators were ripping him a new one. It was a terrible call period.

I'm not sure the call was worse than your attempt to spell Cleveland.

I don't think you should be banned or suspended from FOFC though....

I know it was a hilariously terrible bad call. I just think the calls for firing/suspensions are equally hilarious.

JeffNights · 06-02-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Which post are you responding to that said it wasn't a terrible call? I see no such post.

I'm not refuting anyone, i'm just saying it was a terrible call.

JeffNights · 06-02-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I'm not sure the call was worse than your attempt to spell Cleveland.

I don't think you should be banned or suspended from FOFC though....

I know it was a hilariously terrible bad call. I just think the calls for firing/suspensions are equally hilarious.

I'm not even going to edit the spelling, i've been furious since the game ended and shaking with rage. I guess i'm silly.

fantom1979 · 06-02-2010, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I know it was a hilariously terrible bad call. I just think the calls for firing/suspensions are equally hilarious.

If you are in Detroit right now, there are no calls for firing or suspensions. We are more in the hanging mood right now.

JeffNights · 06-02-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantom1979

If you are in Detroit right now, there are no calls for firing or suspensions. We are more in the hanging mood right now.

Jim Joyce is supposed to be working the plate for tommorow's game. Something tells me he won't.

molson · 06-02-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNights

I'm not even going to edit the spelling, i've been furious since the game ended and shaking with rage. I guess i'm silly.

It's totally understandable to be all upset for a while. Just don't beat up the guy's kids or anything if you run into them.

JeffNights · 06-02-2010, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

It's totally understandable to be all upset for a while. Just don't beat up the guy's kids or anything if you run into them.

Why would I beat up his kids? Are they blind too?

HA.

Dr. Sak · 06-02-2010, 10:49 PM

It's only a game...

**says the guy who is about to throw up before OT of the SCF starts**

dawgfan · 06-02-2010, 11:08 PM

I get that people are upset about Joyce's call, especially Tiger fans. Galarraga got robbed.

But let's get real here - mistakes happen all the time in umpiring & officiating. Until MLB decides to revise the rules, this kind of thing is going to happen. And let's also not forget that blown calls go both ways. You"o think Hudson got every ball and strike call correct? Not according to the Pitch F/X results via Gameday, and all of the questionable ball/strike calls for Galarraga went in his favor. By my count, there were three borderline called strike calls in the early innings, and a couple more late. None of them are egregious, and none of them by themselves had the impact that Joyce's blown call had. But they were likely mistakes just the same, and they had an impact on the game.

For those calling for the game to be "corrected" after the fact, let's remember that this is just one of 162 regular season games. The chances this will have any significant impact on the pennant races is low. If we're talking a call that is obviously blown that changes the outcome of who wins the World Series, yeah - I can see justification there for doing something as heavy-handed as changing the result of a game after the fact. But just to preserve a perfect game? Sorry, just not worth it and a bad precedent.

If this call is the straw that breaks the camel's back in getting MLB to start implementing new technology to supplement/replace umps, great.

larrymcg421 · 06-02-2010, 11:13 PM

I'm wondering if anyone would be clamoring for the league to change the call if it was the reverse and the ump had called someone out that was clearly safe. The call could be equally as bad and no one would be saying the ump should be fired.

JeffNights · 06-02-2010, 11:14 PM

Just announced as I expected, that Joyce will not be umpiring tommorow's game in Detroit.

Fucking Coward.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 06-02-2010, 11:19 PM

Wow you Detroiters are really worked up about this one.

Honolulu_Blue · 06-02-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Wow you Detroiters are really worked up about this one.

I would be careful about drawing too many generalizations about Detroiters based on one guy. The other Detroiters who have posted here have been down right zen about the whole thing.

k0ruptr · 06-02-2010, 11:21 PM

I'm just gonna go about it like it was a perfect game, im my world that is a perfect game. he was out. So there have been 3 perfect games in a month, discuss.

MJ4H · 06-02-2010, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNights

Just announced as I expected, that Joyce will not be umpiring tommorow's game in Detroit.

Fucking Coward.

1. This is 100% the right move. He's not a coward for not umping that game.
2. It probably wasn't even his decision. If it was, someone else would've made it for him if he didn't.

As for the rest of this silly argument, no one actually wants to kill him or rape his family. But people have a right to be pissed at him, just like people have a right to be pissed at a player for muffing a routine grounder that costs a team a series or whatever. People are pissed, let them vent.

MJ4H · 06-02-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

I'm just gonna go about it like it was a perfect game, im my world that is a perfect game. he was out. So there have been 3 perfect games in a month, discuss.

This. Everyone knows he threw a perfect game. Everyone. Let them write down whatever they want in their little book. We all know what happened.

DaddyTorgo · 06-02-2010, 11:22 PM

Can we please have more replay now? - ESPN

DaddyTorgo · 06-02-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ4H

This. Everyone knows he threw a perfect game. Everyone. Let them write down whatever they want in their little book. We all know what happened.

This is probably the way to go about it. Kinda like the Barry Bonds records**

JeffNights · 06-02-2010, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Wow you Detroiters are really worked up about this one.

How about Detroit Tiger Fans?

I do not claim that ummm "city"

Honolulu_Blue · 06-02-2010, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ4H

As for the rest of this silly argument, no one actually wants to kill him or rape his family. But people have a right to be pissed at him, just like people have a right to be pissed at a player for muffing a routine grounder that costs a team a series or whatever. People are pissed, let them vent.

I agree. Being a sports fan is not a rational thing. If you ever stop to really think about it, it's actually quite silly. Being a fan is all about passion and emotion.

k0ruptr · 06-02-2010, 11:25 PM

its crazy too because, 21 perfect games in Major league History, now 3 in a month, fricken insane!

k0ruptr · 06-02-2010, 11:31 PM

lol watching the replay again on my ipod touch, not even close. lmao

MrBug708 · 06-02-2010, 11:56 PM

If I suck at my job, I'm going to get fired. Just like if a plaeyr sucks at their job, they'll lose it. The umpires should be punished for their mistakes

molson · 06-03-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If I suck at my job, I'm going to get fired. Just like if a plaeyr sucks at their job, they'll lose it. The umpires should be punished for their mistakes

By all accounts though, he's been an excellent umpire for a long time.

A bad call in a crucial time is not worse than say, 5 bad calls at other times. Unless you believe in "clutch" umpiring.

Chief Rum · 06-03-2010, 12:05 AM

Don Denkinger called to say that was a crummy call.

BishopMVP · 06-03-2010, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

This is why umpires need accountability - instead of fucking free reign to act as if they are the show. Limited instant replay has to come to baseball, but Bud Selig is douchebag.

Really, this is the call? Not any of the egregious ones last year in the playoffs, or the ones that affect which team wins a game, or the actions by blowhards like Joe West, but this? An honest mistake on a close (clearly wrong, but still close) play where the umpire actually admitted his mistake and apologized for it? I understand baseball is special to many because of its rich history, but fans really have their priorities out of whack when the record book becomes more important than the game. (And this goes for fans who think "even if its close, you have to call the guy out there". Why, so it can cheapen the act of pitching a perfect game?) Put it in a special section with Hooks Wiltse (where the umpire admitted the previous pitch to the 27th batter should have been strike 3), Ernie Shore, Harvey Haddix and Pedro Martinez and talk about it all you want, but this is not the reason umpires need accountability.

Chief Rum · 06-03-2010, 12:07 AM

I was feeling relatively light hearted about this call, but then I accidentally clicked into the image thread and saw a gawdawful picture of a extremely obese Steelers fan chick bending over. So now I am kinda pissed at the world.

Seriously, though, which call is worse? Joyce's call today or that two base runner call in the ALCS last year?

Chief Rum · 06-03-2010, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Really, this is the call? Not any of the egregious ones last year in the playoffs, or the ones that affect which team wins a game, or the actions by blowhards like Joe West, but this? An honest mistake on a close (clearly wrong, but still close) play where the umpire actually admitted his mistake and apologized for it? I understand baseball is special to many because of its rich history, but fans really have their priorities out of whack when the record book becomes more important than the game. (And this goes for fans who think "even if its close, you have to call the guy out there". Why, so it can cheapen the act of pitching a perfect game?) Put it in a special section with Hooks Wiltse (where the umpire admitted the previous pitch to the 27th batter should have been strike 3), Ernie Shore, Harvey Haddix and Pedro Martinez and talk about it all you want, but this is not the reason umpires need accountability.

I'm with you. The outrage expressed here is really over the top. This should not be the straw that broke the camel's back. Joe West? Sure. Last year's playoffs? Definitely. This? Come on. It didn't even affect the result of the game.

Chief Rum · 06-03-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

By all accounts though, he's been an excellent umpire for a long time.

A bad call in a crucial time is not worse than say, 5 bad calls at other times. Unless you believe in "clutch" umpiring.

I'm sure Bill James has already proven clutch umpiring doesn't exist.

Lathum · 06-03-2010, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

This is why umpires need accountability - instead of fucking free reign to act as if they are the show. Limited instant replay has to come to baseball, but Bud Selig is douchebag.

I disagree, baseball has been fine the way it has been for the last 130 years. Replay would just make the games longer and playoff games are already to long.

Crapshoot · 06-03-2010, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I usually never get upset after games but I feel as if the Tigs lost this one today. Bad call, but it's human error. Joyce is taking every shot people can throw at him which I respect, just wish it had not come to it.

All that said, even a perfect game wouldn't take away the fact we have no offense at C, SS and 3B.

Yeah but Galarraga is a scrub - nice guy, but 27 year old 5th starters fade away. To be immortalizated as doing a feat 20 people have ever done in a 130 years? That's something special man - and he had it taken away from him.

But heck, you're a Tigers fan - you know that. My sympathies.

Crapshoot · 06-03-2010, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I went to ESPN.com to read about Griffey and saw this on the front page instead. I just LOL'd, unreal.

The Joyce hate is a silly though, seriously. He missed a call. Made a mistake. If Gallaraga had made a mistake, and allowed an double off the wall - nobody would be calling for his neck. Mistakes are part of the game. Even when they're at times like this. But when an umpire makes it - people just get so upset.

Are you seriously equating player skill with umpire skill? Seriously? This is the single most asinine argument made in defense of Joyce.

Chief Rum · 06-03-2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Are you seriously equating player skill with umpire skill? Seriously? This is the single most asinine argument made in defense of Joyce.

Only the Sith deal in absolutes!

Crapshoot · 06-03-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNights

Just announced as I expected, that Joyce will not be umpiring tommorow's game in Detroit.

Fucking Coward.

Jeff, where did you see the announcement?

Crapshoot · 06-03-2010, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Really, this is the call? Not any of the egregious ones last year in the playoffs, or the ones that affect which team wins a game, or the actions by blowhards like Joe West, but this? An honest mistake on a close (clearly wrong, but still close) play where the umpire actually admitted his mistake and apologized for it? I understand baseball is special to many because of its rich history, but fans really have their priorities out of whack when the record book becomes more important than the game. (And this goes for fans who think "even if its close, you have to call the guy out there". Why, so it can cheapen the act of pitching a perfect game?) Put it in a special section with Hooks Wiltse (where the umpire admitted the previous pitch to the 27th batter should have been strike 3), Ernie Shore, Harvey Haddix and Pedro Martinez and talk about it all you want, but this is not the reason umpires need accountability.

I think it needs to happen - if this is the straw that breaks the camel's back, good. Technology is not a bad thing, no matter what Bud and his bunch of old farts think.

Chief Rum · 06-03-2010, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Jeff, where did you see the announcement?

Denkinger was behind the plate the next day, and the Cards were royally pissed off about it. They even blamed losing on that, even more than the blown call at first in Game 6.

I don't know where JeffNights got his info, but it seems to me it's the right call for Joyce to not be behind the plate tomorrow.

molson · 06-03-2010, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Are you seriously equating player skill with umpire skill? Seriously? This is the single most asinine argument made in defense of Joyce.

Huh? I'm doing what now?

korme · 06-03-2010, 12:57 AM

Can't compare this to any sport.

There is no other sport in the WORLD that has any single greatest individual game achievement as a perfect game. For a clearly missed bad call to happen on the final out, it's like the ump was so nervous not to 'just call him out no matter what', he jumped the gun and went safe with it.

Unbelievable. He permanently altered the historical significance, and Galarraga's entire life, like it or not! He will never be able to say he was perfect, when in fact he was.

The Baseball Gods are not happy

06-02-2010, 10:19 PM	#1351
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I went to ESPN.com to read about Griffey and saw this on the front page instead. I just LOL'd, unreal. The Joyce hate is a silly though, seriously. He missed a call. Made a mistake. If Gallaraga had made a mistake, and allowed an double off the wall - nobody would be calling for his neck. Mistakes are part of the game. Even when they're at times like this. But when an umpire makes it - people just get so upset. Last edited by molson : 06-02-2010 at 10:19 PM.

06-02-2010, 11:13 PM	#1372
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	I'm wondering if anyone would be clamoring for the league to change the call if it was the reverse and the ump had called someone out that was clearly safe. The call could be equally as bad and no one would be saying the ump should be fired. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

06-02-2010, 11:14 PM	#1373
JeffNights College Prospect Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Michigan	Just announced as I expected, that Joyce will not be umpiring tommorow's game in Detroit. Fucking Coward. Last edited by JeffNights : 06-02-2010 at 11:14 PM.

06-02-2010, 11:19 PM	#1374
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	Wow you Detroiters are really worked up about this one. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

06-02-2010, 11:21 PM	#1376
k0ruptr Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Las Vegas	I'm just gonna go about it like it was a perfect game, im my world that is a perfect game. he was out. So there have been 3 perfect games in a month, discuss. __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: k0ruptr My Favorite Teams : Chicago White Sox - Carolina Panthers - Orlando Magic - Phoenix Suns - Anaheim Ducks - Hawaii Warriors - Oregon Ducks

06-02-2010, 10:25 PM	#1357
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Bad calls can be frustrating when they're against you're team, we've all been there. But they're not some kind of personal insult against someone that deserves that kind of response.

06-02-2010, 10:49 PM	#1370
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	It's only a game... says the guy who is about to throw up before OT of the SCF starts

06-02-2010, 11:08 PM	#1371
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	I get that people are upset about Joyce's call, especially Tiger fans. Galarraga got robbed. But let's get real here - mistakes happen all the time in umpiring & officiating. Until MLB decides to revise the rules, this kind of thing is going to happen. And let's also not forget that blown calls go both ways. You"o think Hudson got every ball and strike call correct? Not according to the Pitch F/X results via Gameday, and all of the questionable ball/strike calls for Galarraga went in his favor. By my count, there were three borderline called strike calls in the early innings, and a couple more late. None of them are egregious, and none of them by themselves had the impact that Joyce's blown call had. But they were likely mistakes just the same, and they had an impact on the game. For those calling for the game to be "corrected" after the fact, let's remember that this is just one of 162 regular season games. The chances this will have any significant impact on the pennant races is low. If we're talking a call that is obviously blown that changes the outcome of who wins the World Series, yeah - I can see justification there for doing something as heavy-handed as changing the result of a game after the fact. But just to preserve a perfect game? Sorry, just not worth it and a bad precedent. If this call is the straw that breaks the camel's back in getting MLB to start implementing new technology to supplement/replace umps, great.

06-02-2010, 11:22 PM	#1379
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	Can we please have more replay now? - ESPN __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-02-2010, 11:25 PM	#1383
k0ruptr Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Las Vegas	its crazy too because, 21 perfect games in Major league History, now 3 in a month, fricken insane! __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: k0ruptr My Favorite Teams : Chicago White Sox - Carolina Panthers - Orlando Magic - Phoenix Suns - Anaheim Ducks - Hawaii Warriors - Oregon Ducks

06-02-2010, 11:31 PM	#1384
k0ruptr Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Las Vegas	lol watching the replay again on my ipod touch, not even close. lmao __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: k0ruptr My Favorite Teams : Chicago White Sox - Carolina Panthers - Orlando Magic - Phoenix Suns - Anaheim Ducks - Hawaii Warriors - Oregon Ducks

06-02-2010, 11:56 PM	#1385
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	If I suck at my job, I'm going to get fired. Just like if a plaeyr sucks at their job, they'll lose it. The umpires should be punished for their mistakes

06-03-2010, 12:05 AM	#1387
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Don Denkinger called to say that was a crummy call. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

06-03-2010, 12:07 AM	#1389
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I was feeling relatively light hearted about this call, but then I accidentally clicked into the image thread and saw a gawdawful picture of a extremely obese Steelers fan chick bending over. So now I am kinda pissed at the world. Seriously, though, which call is worse? Joyce's call today or that two base runner call in the ALCS last year? __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 06-03-2010 at 12:08 AM.

06-03-2010, 12:57 AM	#1400
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Can't compare this to any sport. There is no other sport in the WORLD that has any single greatest individual game achievement as a perfect game. For a clearly missed bad call to happen on the final out, it's like the ump was so nervous not to 'just call him out no matter what', he jumped the gun and went safe with it. Unbelievable. He permanently altered the historical significance, and Galarraga's entire life, like it or not! He will never be able to say he was perfect, when in fact he was. The Baseball Gods are not happy

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