Yet another school shooting.

[Ben E Lou]

Yeah, here we go...

UPDATE: One person is in custody in connection with the El Paso, Texas shooting, El Paso police confirm. "We don't believe there is anybody outstanding, so we are starting to secure the scene." https://t.co/mPi7INB5mS pic.twitter.com/CtOJXmiatm

— ABC News (@ABC) August 3, 2019

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Ugh. Now police are confirming 18 deaths.

I'm seeing 22 including 4 kids.

Mass shooting at Walmart is as American as we get.

[RainMaker]

A 4 month old is among one of the shooting victims.

[Ben E Lou]

I just accidentally saw video of what appeared to be bodies in the parking lot. It was labeled something like "view from outside the Walmart" and nothing in the description mentioned bodies, so it caught me completely off guard. Point being, it appears this guy was shooting either on his way in or out of the establishment.

[RainMaker]

The manifesto floating around shows him to be a white nationalist who says he is doing it to stop the Hispanic invasion of Texas. Standard white nationalist talking points throughout. Stuff you'd see on Tucker Carlson or Laura Ingraham.

Not confirmed yet but matches up with the timeline.

[MrBug708]

It showed up on 4chan before they even had the shooter in custody, but the timing of when they got the shooter was unclear

[JPhillips]

If it turns out he is a white supremacist, I hope Cornyn takes heat for his tweet about nine Hispanics for every white.

[Ben E Lou]

The El Paso police in their press conference just confirmed that the shooter was a white male in his 20s. That matches the manifesto/name that has been going around. They did not confirm or deny the name of the shooter that is out there.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

The El Paso police in their press conference just confirmed that the shooter was a white male in his 20s. That matches the manifesto/name that has been going around. They did not confirm or deny the name of the shooter that is out there.

Well of course, these manifestos make all the difference in the world today.

[Ben E Lou]

Shooters identity now confirmed. Boiled all down, it sounds like he drove 9 hours from Dallas to the border to kill Mexicans.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If it turns out he is a white supremacist, I hope Cornyn takes heat for his tweet about nine Hispanics for every white.

Pretty sure he got the result he was looking for.

[QuikSand]

(((Dan Hodges))) on Twitter: "In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over."

[Qwikshot]

It's no longer middle aged white men, but 20 somethings.

Sandy Hook sadly proved America didn't want to discuss, but with the issues with the NRA and more and more progressives getting elected, I don't think the discussion is dead.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Pretty sure he got the result he was looking for.

I have no idea, and I expect a number of GOP electeds see white nationalists as rubes that they can control.

Except sometimes they can't.

[PilotMan]

This is all so terribly sad. It weighs me down today.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

This is all so terribly sad. It weighs me down today.

Yup.

Then four or five days from now, I will likely have a mild pang of regret that I have apparently moved on, hey it wasn't my town this time, and it's just one of those things that we can't solve. Then, like the spineless shit that I apparently am, I'll be mentally done with #ElPaso and fully ready for next week when it's #StPaul or #Tuscaloosa or #Springfield and another dozen families in endless grief.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

It showed up on 4chan before they even had the shooter in custody, but the timing of when they got the shooter was unclear

I think it was 8chan. Christchurch shooter and a few others posted their manifesto there. You'd think the Feds would treat that site like they do Islamic extremist sites by now.

[SirFozzie]

3rd shooter to post their manifesto on 8Ch prior to a shooting in FIVE MONTHS.

El Paso shooting: 21-year-old suspect in custody as officials investigate possible hate crime | US news | The Guardian

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

...fully ready for tomorrow when it's #Dayton and another dozen families in endless grief.

fixed

[Ben E Lou]

#OregonDistrict #update Lt. Col. Carper: at 1:22am active shooter situation began in oregon district. The shooter is deceased. There are 9 others also deceased. At least 16 others went to area hospitals with injuries.

— Dayton Police Dept. (@DaytonPolice) August 4, 2019

[Brian Swartz]

What a horrifying weekend.

[Chief Rum]

Scoobz lives in the Oregon District.

Korme, Warhammer, Butter all in or near Dayton. I hope we see some check ins from all of those guys soon.

[Scoobz0202]

I'm fine. We were at home since I work this weekend. Literally a block from my apartment. What the fuck

How the hell did my gf and I both sleep through this

[albionmoonlight]

We won the first round of the cold war by sitting back and letting the Soviet Union destroy itself from within.

They are doing a great job with round 2.

[Warhammer]

We’re fine here. I do not understand what possesses someone to decide to go out and murder random people in cold blood.

I am also curious if something will come out about this guy going after the LBGTQ community.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I just accidentally saw video of what appeared to be bodies in the parking lot. It was labeled something like "view from outside the Walmart" and nothing in the description mentioned bodies, so it caught me completely off guard. Point being, it appears this guy was shooting either on his way in or out of the establishment.

I saw that, but you know it wasn't the bodies that got me. It was the people running toward the people down. They didn't know where the shooter was, or if he might come back. They were still trying to get to the injured. There was also Pfc. Glendon Oakley, the name I hope is remembered instead of the piece of shit shooter. He saw bunch of kids crying for their parents in the mall playground, so he grabbed as many as he could, and took them to the exit.


We have to remember there are more good people than bad in this world. There are people that live their lives running toward the fire. It looks like the Dayton shooter, even though he was in full body armor, was taken out by some of them within a minute of him starting. A huge number of lives saved by first responders acting quickly. And who knows? Maybe in November of next year we could elect some people that will actually do something, instead cower in the corner collecting NRA money giving thoughts and prayers.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

.. instead cower in the corner collecting NRA money giving thoughts and prayers.

Preacher, the words of Isaiah 1, the first crystal-clear announcement of the coming Messiah amidst the prophet's denunciation of the people's sin, come to mind this morning:



"
¹⁵ When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.Your hands are full of blood!

¹⁶ Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
¹⁷ Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.

¹⁸ “Come now, let us settle the matter,”
says the Lord.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool."

PING: Anyone who foolishly asserts that caring about these things isn't fundamentally baked into the very core of the Gospel.

[Lathum]

https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-...-senate-2018-2

[GrantDawg]

Ben, I think you and I grew up being taught the same Gospel. It was love, grace, and charity. Now I see those same people that used to teach that faith show that it was just words. I just don't know where it all went of the rails, or if I was just a blind child not understanding. I weep for the lost.

[Kodos]

I’m sure it’s still not the right time to talk about gun control, or, **gasp** actually pass laws to help stem the rising body count.

My condolences to everyone whose lives were just ruined by these despicable acts.

[JPhillips]

Police got to the Dayton shooter in less than one minute due to a heavy presence in the area, but he still killed 9 and injured 26. More guns won't keep us safe.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Police got to the Dayton shooter in less than one minute due to a heavy presence in the area, but he still killed 9 and injured 26. More guns won't keep us safe.

I literally just made the same comment on twitter to someone who said Walmart needs to hire armed guards. People will say anything to justify keeping their toys.

[Scoobz0202]

Anybody that goes out in the Oregon district will know. There is constant police presence down there. On foot and in cars on patrol

[Ben E Lou]

At the same time "X wouldn't have helped in this specific incident" is precisely the argument against specific gun legislation. The truth is that *sometimes* "good guys with guns" make a difference, but usually they don't. Dismissing it out of hand is a specious argument about what is a red herring anyway.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

We’re fine here. I do not understand what possesses someone to decide to go out and murder random people in cold blood.

I wish there was a brain scan that would tell us - this person is more prone to mass shootings, get him/her some help.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I literally just made the same comment on twitter to someone who said Walmart needs to hire armed guards. People will say anything to justify keeping their toys.

Yeah. The "this one time I went hunting with my cousin and I figure that was slightly more fun than if we had gone fishing instead, so we are powerless to pass any laws restricting gun purchasing and ownership" argument gets weaker by the minute.

Cars are useful, but dangerous, tools. You need a license to drive a car. Cars are registered with the government. Cars are specially taxed. You must show proof of insurance to use a car. Only licensed dealers may sell new cars, and the resale of cars is recorded by the state.

And that has not meant the end of cars in America.

Let's start with treating guns the same way and go from there.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Cars are useful, but dangerous, tools. You need a license to drive a car. Cars are registered with the government. Cars are specially taxed. You must show proof of insurance to use a car. Only licensed dealers may sell new cars, and the resale of cars is recorded by the state.

And that has not meant the end of cars in America.

Let's start with treating guns the same way and go from there.

Devil is in the details but all reasonable gun control measures.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I wish there was a brain scan that would tell us - this person is more prone to mass shootings, get him/her some help.

It exists. It's called social media.

[ISiddiqui]

Ben, GrantDawg,

I completely agree. The Gospel doesn't call us to just sit back when tragedy strikes but too many are acting like it does.

I am actually currently at the airport, about to head to the ELCA Churchwide Assembly, and I know that we will talk about it. But we are those 'Liberal Christians' and so our view will be disregarded by the Evangelicals and Baptists. Disheartening.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[NobodyHere]

I don't get these shooters like the one in El Paso. Does he really think his actions are going to bring anyone to his cause? Does he think his online scriblings are so brilliant that anyone that reads them will come rallying to his cause?

It's sad to see someone so young be so full of hate and throw his life away.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I wish there was a brain scan that would tell us - this person is more prone to mass shootings, get him/her some help.

It’s called liking fringe cringeworthy racist shit on the internet, beating women, obsessing about rifles in a very large large amount of these things.

[NobodyHere]

So they're going to tack on a hate crime charge to the El Paso shooter who is probably going to get the death penalty.

Are they going to kill him twice?

[Ben E Lou]

Dayton shooter’s sister among the victims. 6 of the other 8 were black. I checked the FB page of the bar earlier today out of curiosity to see the demographics, and the great majority of the patrons pictured on their timeline were white.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Cars are useful, but dangerous, tools. You need a license to drive a car. Cars are registered with the government. Cars are specially taxed. You must show proof of insurance to use a car. Only licensed dealers may sell new cars, and the resale of cars is recorded by the state.

And that has not meant the end of cars in America.

Let's start with treating guns the same way and go from there.

I support the 2nd amendment. I also support mandatory, non-trivial training / safety classes before being allowed to purchase a weapon. Hell, there's US military bases in every state and territory. Set up firearms safety courses there.

I just don't get the "don't budge an inch" crowd.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Dayton shooter’s sister among the victims. 6 of the other 8 were black. I checked the FB page of the bar earlier today out of curiosity to see the demographics, and the great majority of the patrons pictured on their timeline were white.

That's a new one.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Edward64

That's a new one.

The name of the bar is Ned Peppers. Check it out yourself on FB. It could be just a coincidence, but at this juncture it seems at least worth noting.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So they're going to tack on a hate crime charge to the El Paso shooter who is probably going to get the death penalty.

Are they going to kill him twice?

I don't like laws that punish motives rather than actions, but if they're going to exist, this has to be a case where they are applied.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I don't get these shooters like the one in El Paso. Does he really think his actions are going to bring anyone to his cause? Does he think his online scriblings are so brilliant that anyone that reads them will come rallying to his cause?

It's sad to see someone so young be so full of hate and throw his life away.

To answer you questions, yes and yes.

I am guessing he read someone else's online writings, thought they were so
brilliant and with yesterday's actions rallied to the cause.

Consider the manifesto a version of paying it forward.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't like laws that punish motives rather than actions, but if they're going to exist, this has to be a case where they are applied.

"Hate crime" is kind of misleading, they're often just an additional intent element added to an existing crime to enhance the sentence or enhance the seriousness of the charge. No crime punishes JUST motive, but many criminal statutes have a required intent element - intent to permanently deprive, intent to cause injury, etc.

In this case, I think it's probably a death penalty predicate, something a jury has to find in addition to the committed crime in order to impose death. Of course, there's probably a bunch of predicates here, but prosecutors will generally charge with all the crimes and enhancements and predicates that the evidence can support, you never know what gets fucked up by a bad jury instruction or a piece of evidence that should have been excluded. And it'd be weird here if they randomly excluded that predicate which obviously applies.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It exists. It's called social media.

The criminal justice system is really our only tool to force mental health treatment on people. Until that changes, I want us to get past the idea that we're "criminalizing mental illness" when we charge mentally ill people with crimes. That really isn't the goal. Once there's a conviction, there's all kinds of options the state has for involuntary treatment, especially if combined with evidence of dangerousness like social media manifestos and such.