NFL 2018 Season Thread

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Payton got cute instead of running the ball three straight times and forcing the Rams to burn their time outs and having less than a minute to drive down the field. Payton got burned. When you are in control, don't do anything that puts the game in anyone's hands but your own. The Rams would have been in a much worse spot having to drive down field with less than a minute and no time outs.

The plays were good calls. On one of them, Brees messed up. On the other, the refs messed up. On the one play they did run, they got stuffed. No reason to think it wouldn't have happened on the other two.

It's debatable, but playing to win instead of playing to give McVay 60 seconds to beat you is, IMO, the right call.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

Rams attempted a 57 yarder with 12 mins left in overtime? That’s ballsy. If he misses that it’s trouble.

(Was busy working, sorry)

Am I wrong in thinking that kick would have been good from 70? Damn Zuerlein has a leg.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Am I wrong in thinking that kick would have been good from 70? Damn Zuerlein has a leg.

Maybe 80. The ball hit the net half way up.

[cartman]

A guy kicked a 67 yard field goal against us in high school on the last play of the game. To make the final score 67-0.

edit: didn't Zuerlein kick a 64 or 65 yard FG against the Cowboys a few years back in preseason?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Am I wrong in thinking that kick would have been good from 70? Damn Zuerlein has a leg.

It looked good from 70 easily enough.

[Thomkal]

I think they are going to need to do drug tests on his legs

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It looked good from 70 easily enough.

I'd like an 80 yard attempt with a 20 mph wind at his back.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Sure. My point is there were a number of other calls in that game that should have been called (and the Saints should not have relied on one call to win) and were not called or were poor calls. It cuts both ways. Had the Rams gotten the face mask call on the previous drive, and punched it in from the 1 or 2 (having 3 more downs they likely would have, technically 2 since it was on 2nd down, but it was not 100% they get in) the Saints would have needed a TD to go ahead. That was not a guarantee because they had been held to FGs 2 other times inside the Rams 20.

Was it a bad call? Yes. It happens. Then recognize the calls the other way as well, don't cherry pick one bad call because it happened at one point. Had the other calls been called right, all subsequent plays and calls would have been different because it would have been a different situation.

This, six days a week and twice on Sundays.

And yet I've heard two or three guys asking for replay (for PI only) in the last two minutes of games. Really? Wow, what a terrible idea.

It was a terrible call same as the missed face mask that was also right out there in front of God and everybody. But let's ignore the Goff face mask, God knows everybody else is, and say they made the PI call. How come the whole world assumes N.O. would have scored a TD? As quoted above they had already been held to FGs 2 other times inside the 20. Of course fumbling or throwing an interception could never happen either. Getting the PI call in no way assured the Saints of winning and going to the SB.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by tarcone

The NFL got what it wanted.

I won’t be watching. Too bad for the Saints. Bad year to be the best team in your conference with the Rams.

NFL is as corrupt a league as you will find. Hope the AAFL turns into something. Or the XFL.

I don't buy this at all. I know Los Angeles is one of the biggest markets, but the Saints are a big TV draw. On the list I reference below, Rams vs Patriots is #2 (and I would argue #1A) but I agree with this guy that the biggest ratings were in Saints vs Patriots.

Via an article on The Athletic...

Below, I ranked each matchup for CBS (which airs the game) regarding the prospect of topping Super Bowl XLIX:

1. Patriots-Saints: The NFL historically markets its product through quarterbacks and this would be a meeting of two future Hall of Famers (Tom Brady and Drew Brees), two of most popular players in the sport, and two teams that have been significant television draws over the years. Brady and Brees have met just five times since 2002, so there is also a scarcity factor which is good. Like most dynasties, the Patriots are polarizing; again, great for TV. I think there is a less than 50 percent chance this matchup can surpass the 114.4 million mark but Pats-Saints is the best chance to set a new record.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

"There are other reasons why" doesn't negate the fact that the blown PI call was a direct reason they lost the game. All of those things you posted are true...and yet, it doesn't diminish the fact that had that Pass Interference call been made, as it should have, the Saints have a 99.9% chance of winning that game.

In a vacuum, and with every other call going the way it did (right or wrong), then yes, this single call was the direct reason they lost the game.

But games are not played (or won or lost) in a vacuum. There were many plays and calls that were made or missed that impacted the game before that point. As others have pointed out, it's an oversight to look past those plays when assessing the impact of the officiating.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I don't buy this at all. I know Los Angeles is one of the biggest markets, but the Saints are a big TV draw. On the list I reference below, Rams vs Patriots is #2 (and I would argue #1A) but I agree with this guy that the biggest ratings were in Saints vs Patriots.

Via an article on The Athletic...

Below, I ranked each matchup for CBS (which airs the game) regarding the prospect of topping Super Bowl XLIX:

1. Patriots-Saints: The NFL historically markets its product through quarterbacks and this would be a meeting of two future Hall of Famers (Tom Brady and Drew Brees), two of most popular players in the sport, and two teams that have been significant television draws over the years. Brady and Brees have met just five times since 2002, so there is also a scarcity factor which is good. Like most dynasties, the Patriots are polarizing; again, great for TV. I think there is a less than 50 percent chance this matchup can surpass the 114.4 million mark but Pats-Saints is the best chance to set a new record.

I don’t disagree with the writer. But this is about goodell being krafts and enos’ botch.

[BishopMVP]

LoL yah, that Roger Goodell is a pawn of Kraft and always helps the Patriots.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I don’t disagree with the writer. But this is about goodell being krafts and enos’ botch.

Just curious why you keep referring to him as Enos when he’s clearly known by Stan Kroenke?

Do you refer to Tiger Woods as Eldrick or Buster Posey as Gerald?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

But games are not played (or won or lost) in a vacuum.

Precisely. But that just makes the missed call all the more egregious. You have one of the 2 or 3 best D-coordinators in the league for the Rams. You have one of the 2 or 3 best play callers in the league for the Saints.

The Saints watch weeks of Rams D film. The Rams watch weeks of Saints film. And the game starts. It's a chess match. Moves and counter moves. A formation used in the first quarter to see how the D will respond to it when you pull it out again in the 3rd quarter. These things all build on each other. Each football mind trying to stay one half move ahead of the other.

And the Saints had something. Something they'd seen. Maybe late one night in film study during the bye week. Maybe something the Rams did against the Cardinals in that game no one watched. Maybe something they noticed in the first game against the Rams. Or maybe it was something that they noticed on the Microsoft Surface Tabletstm after a first quarter play call. Whatever it was, they weren't going to just pull it out on a random second down in the 3rd quarter. These games aren't played in a vacuum, after all.

No. They saved it. They saved it for the biggest third down of the season. They had kept in in their pocket, and then they called it at the exact right time. Watch the play. Their fastest WR lines up at RB on the right side and takes off. And the guy "covering" him is woefully out of position. He's on the left side of the field and has to sprint over with his head down.

None of this is a coincidence. It's great coaching.

And so if you want to be hyper-technical, you can say it was "one play" and try to dismiss it. But this if FOF.com; we can do better than that. It was a play that was likely two months in the making. A play that, had they used it earlier in the game, would have possibly turned one of those three point drives into a 7 point drive. But they did the right thing. They waited to use it until it had maximum value. And the refs violated the most fundamental trust that a team can have in the game--that it will be called competently.

Look, it happened. They aren't replaying the game. The Rams won the NFC. And there isn't going to be an asterisk in the sports almanac when Marty McFly picks it up. But let's not pretend that it was not the most significant officiating blunder in recent memory. Because when you consider (1) the obviousness of the missed call; (2) the stakes of the game; and (3) the near certainty that had it been correct the outcome would have changed, I cannot think of a missed call that really comes close.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

But let's not pretend that it was not the most significant officiating blunder in recent memory. Because when you consider (1) the obviousness of the missed call; (2) the stakes of the game; and (3) the near certainty that had it been correct the outcome would have changed, I cannot think of a missed call that really comes close.

Unless of course you go back about what? 1-2 minutes and the Goff face mask

[stevew]

As long as the Saints don't get any ammo in their "#1 rivalry in the league" with the Falcons I'm happy

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Unless of course you go back about what? 1-2 minutes and the Goff face mask

I don't agree. I think that was both less obvious and less impact.

But you did just jog my memory. This Green Bay - Arizona Decided by Blown Face Mask Call - YouTube was probably the closet bad call in recent memory. It was as egregious as the missed PI, and it was a playoff game. Now, had the Packers gotten the call, we don't know if they would have won the game. But it was the game-winning play for the Cardinals, so it had a huge impact.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

the most fundamental trust that a team can have in the game--that it will be called competently.

You have got to be kidding. In what league is that the case today?
It sure isn't any sport I see, not with certainty at least.

I'd buy perhaps an argument that calling it without prejudice is a fundamental trust, but competence? That's a bridge too far any more.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

In a vacuum, and with every other call going the way it did (right or wrong), then yes, this single call was the direct reason they lost the game.

But games are not played (or won or lost) in a vacuum. There were many plays and calls that were made or missed that impacted the game before that point. As others have pointed out, it's an oversight to look past those plays when assessing the impact of the officiating.

Normally I'm with you (and Warhammer). I think the absurdity of how blatant the missed call was is clouding my judgement, because it seems stupid to compare any of the other missed penalties (which I will agree were impactful) with the missed PI. I mean, it's not as if this was a close call, or could have gone either way, or was in any way challenging for the ref to call.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I don't agree. I think that was both less obvious and less impact.

But you did just jog my memory. This Green Bay - Arizona Decided by Blown Face Mask Call - YouTube was probably the closet bad call in recent memory. It was as egregious as the missed PI, and it was a playoff game. Now, had the Packers gotten the call, we don't know if they would have won the game. But it was the game-winning play for the Cardinals, so it had a huge impact.

Would have given the Rams first or second and goal on the one. If we can go with the Saints would have automatically scored a TD from the 7 yd line then we have to say the Rams would have scored a TD from the 1. It took 4 points away from the Rams. The same 4 points the Saints lost by having to take a FG.

It's funny I was just watching Herd on my dvr after making my post. Herd started the show talking about the egregious call at the end of the Saints game and said "let's take a look" or words to that effect. He then went on to show the Goff face mask

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Would have given the Rams first or second and goal on the one. If we can go with the Saints would have automatically scored a TD from the 7 yd line then we have to say the Rams would have scored a TD from the 1. It took 4 points away from the Rams. The same 4 points the Saints lost by having to take a FG.

It's funny I was just watching Herd on my dvr after making my post. Herd started the show talking about the egregious call at the end of the Saints game and said "let's take a look" or words to that effect. He then went on to show the Goff face mask

The Saints would not have gotten a TD. They would have had first down and the ability to run the clock down for a FG with almost no time remaining. The PI call would have been better than the WR scoring a TD there b/c a TD would have left the Rams time to come back.

With the face mask, let's say the Rams would have gotten a TD and not a field goal there with enough time left for the Saints to drive down. That's still nothing like as game deciding as a last second field goal to take the lead.

[Carman Bulldog]

Firstly, I disagree that it was some sort of perfect third down play. Realistically, that should have been a pick-six. All the defender has to do is turn his head around. The Saints got lucky that he didn’t.

Secondly, saying the Missed PI call is the reason they lost the game is like saying Dee Ford lining up in the neutral zone on the called back interception was the reason that the Chiefs lost. If Ford doesn’t do that, then the interception holds up and the Chiefs win the game. But that doesn’t mean that single play is why they lost.

Edit: Despite the fact that much like the PI call, if Ford isn’t in the neutral zone and that call isn’t made, it’s game over at that moment. At least Lutz still has to make the field goal. Chiefs could have kneeled down three times and then punted as the clock expired (or ran backwards on 4th down to kill off what might have been 2-3 seconds... maybe).

[MizzouRah]

Refs are going to miss calls, it happens in all sports. Hell I know I miss calls all the time reffing soccer. That last non-call is just magnified because it was a close game and happened late in the game. I bet you can call a holding penalty on almost every snap.

With all the different camera angles they now have I would expect at some point the NFL will allow the remote review crew to have constant contact with the referees on the field so that can instantly say, "throw the flag, that's a facemask on the QB or a PI on the WR". We have to be at the point technologically for some advancements in Pro sport officiating.

I'm not saying the call shouldn't have been made, but I can only imagine how fast a play at the pro level would be even for an experienced official to make a split second call, one that a game completely hinges on.

I'm always telling myself in a tight game I'm reffing.. don't blow a call this late with the game on the line.

[cartman]

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The Saints would not have gotten a TD. They would have had first down and the ability to run the clock down for a FG with almost no time remaining. The PI call would have been better than the WR scoring a TD there b/c a TD would have left the Rams time to come back.

With the face mask, let's say the Rams would have gotten a TD and not a field goal there with enough time left for the Saints to drive down. That's still nothing like as game deciding as a last second field goal to take the lead.

And this is exactly why the missed face mask call is so important and just as much a game changer, as the missed PI, late in the game. If called the Rams are up 24-20 and NO is trying to run down the clock and also have to score a TD. A MUCH harder task.

And yes I get to assume the Rams would score a TD just as everyone (maybe not you?) assumes NO would have at least kicked a FG to win

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I bet you can call a holding penalty on almost every snap.

With all the different camera angles they now have I would expect at some point the NFL will allow the remote review crew to have constant contact with the referees on the field so that can instantly say, "throw the flag, that's a facemask on the QB or a PI on the WR". We have to be at the point technologically for some advancements in Pro sport officiating.

While I agree with your main point, the day we let our advanced technological abilities the ability to ref games, will be the absolute downfall of sports for the sole reason of your holding penalty statement. I agree that there are holds, hell there are probably penalties on nearly every play. If tech starts making those calls and refs on the field are instantly told to flag and then review what tech told them....games will never end and there is no progression in the game.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by hollmt

While I agree with your main point, the day we let our advanced technological abilities the ability to ref games, will be the absolute downfall of sports for the sole reason of your holding penalty statement. I agree that there are holds, hell there are probably penalties on nearly every play. If tech starts making those calls and refs on the field are instantly told to flag and then review what tech told them....games will never end and there is no progression in the game.

The flip side is players will adjust. If the refs crack down, players will eventually adjust. The problem is, the fans have to stick it out through the adjustment period. Unfortunately, as much as fans claim they want to see the game played straight with few penalties, they do not have the stomach to actually put it into effect.

[BishopMVP]

I assumed he played football, but am I the only one that didn't know McVay was a D1 WR? I'd always assumed he was like a D3 QB. It's crazy that he & Edelman faced each other in college. Miami (OH) at Kent State Box Score, October 6, 2007 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

[AlexB]

Sometimes sport is a small world: James Milner was sent off at the weekend by the referee Jon Moss, who was his PE teacher at primary school!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I assumed he played football, but am I the only one that didn't know McVay was a D1 WR? I'd always assumed he was like a D3 QB. It's crazy that he & Edelman faced each other in college. Miami (OH) at Kent State Box Score, October 6, 2007 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

I believe in high school he beat out Calvin Johnson as Georgia HS player of the year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

I believe in high school he beat out Calvin Johnson as Georgia HS player of the year.

He did, but as a quarterback (as Bishop assumed) for Marist who he led to a state title and a 14-1 season.

Johnson's Sandy Creek team was ranked fifth & unbeaten going into the playoffs but got shocked by a 5-5 Bainbridge team that basically shut Johnson down in a 31-13 stunner.

Johnson's HS career saw only one playoff win (1-3 with one season missing the postseason) and that was his freshman year, when the standouts on the team were eventual NFL DT Kedrick Golston and brief NFL/Stanford RB JR Lemon.

[bob]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He did, but as a quarterback (as Bishop assumed) for Marist who he led to a state title and a 14-1 season.

Johnson's Sandy Creek team was ranked fifth & unbeaten going into the playoffs but got shocked by a 5-5 Bainbridge team that basically shut Johnson down in a 31-13 stunner.

Johnson's HS career saw only one playoff win (1-3 with one season missing the postseason) and that was his freshman year, when the standouts on the team were eventual NFL DT Kedrick Golston and brief NFL/Stanford RB JR Lemon.

Well at least high school prepared him well for his NFL career. Although it gave him one more playoff win.

[Thomkal]

Larry Fitzgerald back for another season with the Cards

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He did, but as a quarterback (as Bishop assumed) for Marist who he led to a state title and a 14-1 season.

Johnson's Sandy Creek team was ranked fifth & unbeaten going into the playoffs but got shocked by a 5-5 Bainbridge team that basically shut Johnson down in a 31-13 stunner.

Johnson's HS career saw only one playoff win (1-3 with one season missing the postseason) and that was his freshman year, when the standouts on the team were eventual NFL DT Kedrick Golston and brief NFL/Stanford RB JR Lemon.

So in 16 years of HS/College/NFL Calvin Johnson won 2 postseason games - one FR year of HS when he wasn't a starter, and a Champs Sports Bowl? That's just sad.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

So in 16 years of HS/College/NFL Calvin Johnson won 2 postseason games - one FR year of HS when he wasn't a starter, and a Champs Sports Bowl? That's just sad.

He was an elite player / athlete that was really never part of an elite team.

Probably happens more often than we realize though.

[molson]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

You root for evil, that makes you evil. Sorry man.

Indeed...

https://www.facebook.com/ESPN/videos/535037613656812/

[albionmoonlight]

So I finally found one good thing that came out of last Sunday. I bet my co-worker a cup of coffee that the Pats would beat the Chiefs. And today we were both in the office so she could pay up.

Other than that, I'm still too frustrated to care/think at all about football.

(Really good coffee, though)

[Carman Bulldog]

Inside the Cleveland Browns front office, where hope and history collide

I've heard great things about this article but I haven't personally read it yet. I thought a few others here would enjoy this long form take on the dysfunction of the Browns.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Inside the Cleveland Browns front office, where hope and history collide

I've heard great things about this article but I haven't personally read it yet. I thought a few others here would enjoy this long form take on the dysfunction of the Browns.

Read it yesterday. It explains so much. Really good insight.

[cartman]

This was my favorite part.

Marketing executives wanted employees to see how fans were engaging with the Browns on social media, so they projected the Browns feed onto a giant wall at the facility. It was like broadcasting talk radio over the entire building, and one day in particular, it was worse than that. One of the marketing staffers entered a search for #dp -- for Dawg Pound. The problem was, that hashtag carried a few different meanings, one of which triggered an array of porn to be broadcast onto a wall for the entire office to see for more than 20 minutes, until a tech employee killed the feed.

[Carman Bulldog]

Way over on the over/under for the anthem there. That was around 120 seconds.

[PilotMan]

Well there's the first bullshit call of the game from the refs.

[sabotai]

I'm baffled that any one thinks that was a bad call. Helmet-to-helmet on a player as they are making a catch has been a personal foul for a long time now.

[CrimsonFox]

SLAM Brady down! YEAH!!!!!!!

[CrimsonFox]

any actual pats fans here?

[PilotMan]

Head up, arms wide and wrapped, no leading, spearing or head hunting. the player caught the ball and it's just crazy that he's not allowed to be tackled or separated from the ball. I guess it's more of a rage against what the game has become rather than that call, but it felt like a bad call.

[sabotai]

Once upon a time, there was an episode of the show Coach in which Minnesota State is playing in a bowl game I think, and the starting QB is injured. Near the end of the game, they reveal he's not injured at all, and they surprise the opponent and win on the final drive. Absolutely ridiculous premise, but it worked.

Either McVay decided to do something similar with Gurley, of Gurley is really hurt.

[Butter]

This Super Bowl has been atrocious

[EagleFan]

Who has the under?

[sabotai]

I like defensive games. I'm enjoying it so far.