Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[MJ4H]

This whole thing just went up about 100 points on the holy shit hold on to your butts o meter.

[Warhammer]

This is what I heard earlier. I also heard that ND will be going if Nebraska goes.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

That's one great smilie.

[timmynausea]

I think there can only be one explanation for the Big Ten holding off on inviting Missouri: Tom Izzo is scared shitless of Mike Anderson.

[MJ4H]

Bah what does the Cavs coach care about Mike Anderson?

[DeToxRox]

Another gem from LSUFreek:

[MJ4H]

I love that he made the big 12 (and big 10!) all tractors and big fields and pastures. That is probably what makes it funniest.

[TroyF]

In the scenario above. . . CU, Iowa St. Kansas, Kansas ST. and Mizzou are all in deep, deep crap.

(under the assumption Texas really has the power to move Baylor in over CU, I'm still not sure that can/will happen)

The Big 12 will disband and the remaining five teams in the north (or Baylor in the South) would be left on an island with nowhere to go. Just breaking this down to athletics, everything but KU basketball would be an afterthought for all of the schools involved. The revenue loss would be monumental.

Honestly, it would probably serve the dirtbags up at CU right. They've talked for years about how worthless football is, now they'll get proof positive of how wrong they are. I think Iowa St. and KState would go somewhere fast. What would Mizzou, CU or KU do? Where would they end up when the dust settled.

Yikes.

[Ksyrup]

Missouri was the lynchpin in all of this...as the patsy?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by TroyF

In the scenario above. . . CU, Iowa St. Kansas, Kansas ST. and Mizzou are all in deep, deep crap.

(under the assumption Texas really has the power to move Baylor in over CU, I'm still not sure that can/will happen)

The Big 12 will disband and the remaining five teams in the north (or Baylor in the South) would be left on an island with nowhere to go. Just breaking this down to athletics, everything but KU basketball would be an afterthought for all of the schools involved. The revenue loss would be monumental.

Honestly, it would probably serve the dirtbags up at CU right. They've talked for years about how worthless football is, now they'll get proof positive of how wrong they are. I think Iowa St. and KState would go somewhere fast. What would Mizzou, CU or KU do? Where would they end up when the dust settled.

Yikes.

I have no idea what they do. Nothing seems feasible to me for them. Do they try and raid the MWC? The teams they'd get would make a solid football conference but it won't bring them much money. Kansas can probably go to the Big East, but who knows honestly?

Really crazy if this plays out.

[I. J. Reilly]

If MBBF doesn’t show up soon, I’m going to start to worry. He wouldn’t do anything crazy, would he?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

If MBBF doesn’t show up soon, I’m going to start to worry. He wouldn’t do anything crazy, would he?

Hope he decided to hold off on his Big 10 tattoo.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by TroyF

In the scenario above. . . CU, Iowa St. Kansas, Kansas ST. and Mizzou are all in deep, deep crap.

(under the assumption Texas really has the power to move Baylor in over CU, I'm still not sure that can/will happen)

The Big 12 will disband and the remaining five teams in the north (or Baylor in the South) would be left on an island with nowhere to go. Just breaking this down to athletics, everything but KU basketball would be an afterthought for all of the schools involved. The revenue loss would be monumental.

Honestly, it would probably serve the dirtbags up at CU right. They've talked for years about how worthless football is, now they'll get proof positive of how wrong they are. I think Iowa St. and KState would go somewhere fast. What would Mizzou, CU or KU do? Where would they end up when the dust settled.

Yikes.

I know that the Big-12 needs to have 6 members of a conference for 5 years, but what if the remaining Big-12 teams invite 6 MWC teams and BSU? Doesn't that technically fill the parameters?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Hope he decided to hold off on his Big 10 tattoo.

Or...wanna get away?

[timmynausea]

Thought this was a pretty interesting post on the possibilities for SEC expansion from an FSU board:

According to the sports chatter show in Virginia this morning, the SEC has had only high level discussions to date, and has discussed pros and cons of adding different teams, including ones that are package deals. This means teams like Texas will not be invited alone. Keys are cultural fit, geography, finacial incentive and athletic compatibility to existing SEC programs.

Interestingly unlike the Big X and Pac X discussions, academics have not been a sticky point for SEC targets. It boils mostly on preserving the SEC athletic tradition, culture and improving the bottom line.

The following were discussed:
Texas + A&M + Texas Tech (AD's are worried Texas will exert too much influence on conference, and about the cultural fit)
North Carolina + NC State (AD's are not convinced they will accept)
Virginia + Va Tech (AD's are not convinced they will accept)
Maryland (Concerns about Cultural fit + Geography, also not convinced they will accept)
FSU (Mild concerns about financials)
Ga Tech (Some concerns about financials)
Clemson (Some concerns about financials)
West Virginia (Some concerns about financials)
Louisville (Some concerns about financials)
Memphis (Serious concerns about financials)
Miami (Serious concerns about financials

* Texas schools are unlikely targets for the SEC, with Foley & Co. having no interest in bringing in a new "top dog", especially with A&M + Tech in tow.
* The NC and Virginia schools are attractive targets for the SEC, but they will only publicly invite if they can feel guaranteed they will accept. And they do not see them accepting.
* FSU is the most popular target for all AD's except Foley. There is some concern that there are not many new TV sets being added, but a feeling that FSU has a national draw.
* Much less interested in Miami than I expected (lumped in with Memphis in terms of value to the converence in their discussions). Only way Miami would be looked at is if FSU for some reason demanded Miami be included.
* Most popular targets outside of above are Ga Tech, Clemson, West Va and Louisville.
* West Va + Louisville (or even Memphis) would be the most conservative and cost-beneficial route in the short term. Could offer them membership with a reduced slice of the pie for the first 5 years while they work on renengotiating contracts. All 3 would be willing to accept a "trial" membership even with a much smaller slice of the revenue sharing pie. This would be a win-win for the SEC members. FSU, Clemson, GA Tech will not leave unless money is substantial, and it would be hard for the SEC to make the money substantial enough. All 3 also enjoy the academic benefits of ACC membership and use it as a recruiting advantage and fear their recruiting will actually suffer moving to the SEC.

All very interesting. But I get the feeling there's a good chance that SEC expansion won't even impact the ACC. This was first I heard of chasing the smaller fish and giving them smaller shares of the pie, but it makes sense in many ways.

[Blade6119]

This makes perfect sense from the Big 10's perspective, although it does fuck my mizzou tigers over pretty badly

[MrBug708]

What if Missouri was just playing the Big-10 and the real goal was joining the PAC-10?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I have no idea what they do. Nothing seems feasible to me for them. Do they try and raid the MWC? The teams they'd get would make a solid football conference but it won't bring them much money. Kansas can probably go to the Big East, but who knows honestly?

I'm not sure I see anything that would make more sense (and be more feasible) than CU going to one of the western conferences (MWC) and then Iowa St. Kansas, K-State, and Mizzou all going to C-USA which would expand it to 16.

Extremely imperfect solution but is there really a better idea (because I just refuse to consider Kansas going to a conference named East anything)?

[Logan]

Interestingly unlike the Big X and Pac X discussions, academics have not been a sticky point for SEC targets.

No shit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Thought this was a pretty interesting post on the possibilities for SEC expansion from an FSU board:

As for Louisville, I'm not sure Kentucky would go for them being added. Not enough to stop the move but I'd think they'd have to be strongly against it at least privately.

Similarly, I don't see UT or Vandy going along easily with even the slightest suggestion of Memphis.

West Virginia, on the other hand, I'm not sure there would be specific opposition to from a "who the team is" standpoint, so I could easily imagine them being in play but who to partner them with even in a two-team expansion is tough for me to come up with a clear frontrunner.

On the whole, I agree with much of what you posted from that FSU board though.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

The radio station here that "broke" the story about the Big Ten making "initial offers" last mont hand is spinning a new doomsday scenario right now. They say sources in Columbia indicate the Big Ten has said they will not have an offer to join the conference this week. However, Nebraska will have an offer to consider at their meeting Friday.

There is speculation among the Missouri crowd that the Big Ten may be backing off and decided if Notre Dame won't go, they will only add Nebraska as a 12th team and wait to expand to 14 or 16.

If Nebraska goes, the South will go as well -- unless Colorado is able to stave off Baylor.

Here's their ultimate armageddon scenario. While the Big 12 bylaws require a super majority of 9 votes to make any bylaw changes, the conference is a Delaware corporation. Delaware law (allegedly) requires only a majority vote to dissolve the corporation.

So, if the South and NU bolt the conference, they could vote 7-5 to dissolve the Big 12. In that case, penalties for leaving the conference would be waived. That would leave the MU, KU, K-State, Iowa State and BU/CU alone in the cold with no money from penalties.

If you thought the Big East/ACC lawsuits were something, wait til this sorts its way out.

There's a TON of things that have to fall in place for this scenario and even Kietzmann noted that this isn't anywhere close to a done deal. But it's certainly an interesting twist to be sure. The Big Ten had talked with Mizzou as recently as yesterday saying that a bid would be sent. We'll have to see what plays out tomorrow.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

If MBBF doesn’t show up soon, I’m going to start to worry. He wouldn’t do anything crazy, would he?

Your concern is very much appreciated. However, the rest of the board likely hates you right now. I had a noose around my neck and was going to jump off the stool. Your post made me reconsider, thereby allowing me to survive my fate and post on this board for years to come.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There's a TON of things that have to fall in place for this scenario and even Kietzmann noted that this isn't anywhere close to a done deal. But it's certainly an interesting twist to be sure. The Big Ten had talked with Mizzou as recently as yesterday saying that a bid would be sent. We'll have to see what plays out tomorrow.

After this is done, Missouri needs to fire its whole athletic department. Nobody can keep a secret to save their life.

[Ksyrup]

Reading message boards with a noose around your neck - now THAT's serious boarding!

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Your concern is very much appreciated. However, the rest of the board likely hates you right now. I had a noose around my neck and was going to jump off the stool. Your post made me reconsider, thereby allowing me to survive my fate and post on this board for years to come.

Living for spite is still living

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

After this is done, Missouri needs to fire its whole athletic department. Nobody can keep a secret to save their life.

And what school can keep a secret? Look at UCLA and the Wear twins, that secret was out sooo far in advance

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Funny thing is that the writer of that article, Dennis Dodd, is a Missouri alum. For some reason he's been dead set againt Missouri going to the Big 12 and has done everything he can to argue against it.

At the time and even now I think it was mistake to vote to move the Big 12 office. However, we made the deal because the Texas schools agreed to leave the Big 12 basketball tournament in KC and never touch it ... and agreement that reneged on. It was a good deal except you can't trust the trading partner.

As for Hatchell, KU and Nebraska gave us no choice. They backed the KU athletic director Bob Frederick for the commissioner job, and politically with the fans, politicians and everyone else, there was no way Missouri could vote for Frederick. If the roles had been reversed, no way would KU have voted Dan Devine for commissioner. The North should have identified a consensus candidate without ties to any school. Instead, KU and Nebraska forced us into the Hatchell or Frederick. We tried to broker a deal with the south to at least get something for their commissioner and HQ.

How did we not all realize at the time the Big 12 was doomed to fail because everyone hated everyone else?

I don't know where you're getting that KC was promised the Big 12 basketball tourney every year if the headquarters were moved to Dallas because I don't remember that being discussed at all. If so you would have seen KU, KSU, NU, and ISU potentially voting in favor of that more so than Colorado. The fact is MU betrayed the rest of the north just as Colorado did.

As for Bob Frederick, why would you not want a guy with Big 8 ties over a guy who helped sink the SWC? Heck, KSU had less love for Bob Frederick and they were smart enough not to put their eggs in the Hatchell basket. You can say what you want, but Frederick was a much better choice as commissioner than a proven failure like Hatchell. Frederick may not have been the best athletic director, but the guy would have been right at hom as commissioner of a conference. No, Missouri made their choices.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

And what school can keep a secret? Look at UCLA and the Wear twins, that secret was out sooo far in advance

That wasn't an athletic department issue, that was a Wear's father issue

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

I don't know where you're getting that KC was promised the Big 12 basketball tourney every year if the headquarters were moved to Dallas because I don't remember that being discussed at all. If so you would have seen KU, KSU, NU, and ISU potentially voting in favor of that more so than Colorado. The fact is MU betrayed the rest of the north just as Colorado did.

As for Bob Frederick, why would you not want a guy with Big 8 ties over a guy who helped sink the SWC? Heck, KSU had less love for Bob Frederick and they were smart enough not to put their eggs in the Hatchell basket. You can say what you want, but Frederick was a much better choice as commissioner than a proven failure like Hatchell. Frederick may not have been the best athletic director, but the guy would have been right at hom as commissioner of a conference. No, Missouri made their choices.

And Kansas gets to crash and burn for them, so they made the right choices

[MJ4H]

My personal wishlist for 4 SEC teams is

FSU, Clemson, Louisville, North Carolina.

I think 3 of those jump at the SEC. I think North Carolina wouldn't but could be persuaded. As mentioned, I don't think that's the SEC's style and they would then move on to West Virginia, who I think would jump.

Just my opinion, and I haven't been following this stuff until everything got shoved right to the edge of the cliff and people started leaning on it recently.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

That wasn't an athletic department issue, that was a Wear's father issue

And the Carlino reclassification? I know Carlino's family and I heared about it through the UCLA grapevine before i heared about it from matty

[Logan]

Just curious, why do you want Louisville?

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There's a TON of things that have to fall in place for this scenario and even Kietzmann noted that this isn't anywhere close to a done deal. But it's certainly an interesting twist to be sure. The Big Ten had talked with Mizzou as recently as yesterday saying that a bid would be sent. We'll have to see what plays out tomorrow.

Kietzman? Seriously? You really need a better source.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

Living for spite is still living

If it works for Texas, it'll work for anyone.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Logan

Just curious, why do you want Louisville?

Dunno. I'd take Georgia Tech in their place. I haven't thought it out much.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

And the Carlino reclassification? I know Carlino's family and I heared about it through the UCLA grapevine before i heared about it from matty

I'm not sure what you are getting at? Howland only had interest in Carlino this year, that's why Howland recruited him. It's not a big secret or anything

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Kietzman? Seriously? You really need a better source.

You obviously aren't paying attention. Kietzmann is the one offering up this scenario, not the one talking about it.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

And Kansas gets to crash and burn for them, so they made the right choices

Not really. I don't blame Missouri's choices back then for the conference failing now. I've always felt like Nebraska was the key. If they left then the conference would likely tumble. I had actually felt good about the conference's chances when it was just MU being rumored. When NU got involved then I could see the writing on the wall. There's still a chance the conference could be salvaged, but it's a very small chance at this time with NU leaving.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You obviously aren't paying attention. Kietzmann is the one offering up this scenario, not the one talking about it.

Didn't Kietzman just take the scenario that was posted on the web?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If it works for Texas, it'll work for anyone.

Interesting, coming from a fan of the school that was the first to say they were going to leave the Big 12, supposedly out of spite for the power Texas holds over the Big 12.

Gotta love what DeLoss Dodds, the AD of Texas had to say: "We didn't start this, but if we need to finish it we'll finish it."

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'm not sure what you are getting at? Howland only had interest in Carlino this year, that's why Howland recruited him. It's not a big secret or anything

Im just saying ive never known and school or athletic department that can keep a secret, every story about every school always has quotes from inside sources and leaks from key personnel...i think thats mostly standard practice, that if an athletic department has a secret it will be told

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As for Louisville, I'm not sure Kentucky would go for them being added. Not enough to stop the move but I'd think they'd have to be strongly against it at least privately.

Similarly, I don't see UT or Vandy going along easily with even the slightest suggestion of Memphis.

West Virginia, on the other hand, I'm not sure there would be specific opposition to from a "who the team is" standpoint, so I could easily imagine them being in play but who to partner them with even in a two-team expansion is tough for me to come up with a clear frontrunner.

On the whole, I agree with much of what you posted from that FSU board though.

If Pittsburgh doesn't end up in the Big 10, they could be a good combo for the SEC with WVU. Both have pretty good football and very good basketball and the two combined would bring in good chunk of the Pittsburgh market (that PSU also has a large ownership of).

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by cartman

Interesting, coming from a fan of the school that was the first to say they were going to leave the Big 12, supposedly out of spite for the power Texas holds over the Big 12.

Gotta love what DeLoss Dodds, the AD of Texas had to say: "We didn't start this, but if we need to finish it we'll finish it."

To be fair, Mizzou has still never said they were leaving...Mizzou wouldnt commit to the Big 12, but i havent heared Texas do that either

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Im just saying ive never known and school or athletic department that can keep a secret, every story about every school always has quotes from inside sources and leaks from key personnel...i think thats mostly standard practice, that if an athletic department has a secret it will be told

I dont think grade classification of a decent college basketball player is in the same stratosphere as it would be for conference realignment and millions and millions of dollars. I doubt that these "meetings" have more then 2 or 3 people from the university involved. You are trying to compare a particular sport with a whole athletic department.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

My personal wishlist for 4 SEC teams is

FSU, Clemson, Louisville, North Carolina.

I think 3 of those jump at the SEC. I think North Carolina wouldn't but could be persuaded. As mentioned, I don't think that's the SEC's style and they would then move on to West Virginia, who I think would jump.

Just my opinion, and I haven't been following this stuff until everything got shoved right to the edge of the cliff and people started leaning on it recently.

I think it would be hard for UNC to leave the ACC without Duke and NC State.

WVU (or any other Big East school) would be willing to jump and take a partial share for several years, I would imagine. A partial share of the SEC pie is going to be better than what we are getting in the Big East now.

[SackAttack]

I wouldn't have minded Mizzou to the Big Ten, if only because I live in Big Ten country now and that would've made it easier for me to see their games.

But if Nebraska goes and Mizzou doesn't get a bid (and the South goes to the Pac-10), I don't know where Mizzou goes from here. Their basketball and football programs are better of late than they were when I was a student there, but it's not like they've got an historical pedigree in either one to dangle in front of any of the other BCS conferences.

Maybe they could just join the Horizon League and then at least I could see the basketball team when they come to Green Bay.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think it would be hard for UNC to leave the ACC without Duke and NC State.

That was my thought process, too.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I dont think grade classification of a decent college basketball player is in the same stratosphere as it would be for conference realignment and millions and millions of dollars. I doubt that these "meetings" have more then 2 or 3 people from the university involved. You are trying to compare a particular sport with a whole athletic department.

Well UCLA hasnt been involved directly in anything on this level, so i cant say in that regard. I wasnt attacking UCLA, just trying to make a reference you could understand. Look at the other key players in this current event. Is Nebraka holding their secrets? Texas? Hell, Baylor, CU, OU, any of them...if anything were getting too much information, so that every tidbit of whimsy is taken and twisted into both fact and grandeur.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

To be fair, Mizzou has still never said they were leaving...Mizzou wouldnt commit to the Big 12, but i havent heared Texas do that either

Eh? Texas has said all along they would prefer to keep the Big 12 together, and were committed to doing so. However, they also discussed other options if it wasn't possible to keep the league together.

http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/docs-...-to-the-pac-10
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...e/7032111.html

[Swaggs]

For what it's worth, I still think Missouri gets a spot in the Big Ten unless they stick at 11 or 12. Their problem right now is that they don't have any other options, so there is no urgency to add them just yet. Nebraska, Texas, and Notre Dame have always been higher on the pecking order and Missouri and the Big East schools will be waiting around until the Big Ten has done their dilligence (unless the SEC decides to make their move first, plucks from the ACC, and the ACC decides to go for the NYC market first).