WW Dukes Versus Hunters (GAME OVER!!--See Post #1387)

[JAG]

I forgot that too Shoveler, nice point. I am relieved the bullhorn didn't end up hurting the village when The wolves got it upon my death, though I heard it changed hands again.

Wild game, lots of surprises. If font hadn't been the blank, that would've been ugly.

[EagleFan]

If MartinD doesn't protect font that day is HUGE for us. Would have been two dead villagers with us not having to lift a finger.

[Chief Rum]

Thanks guys!

I am not sure there is too much that happened that wasn't explainable by the results, but if you have any questions, please let me know.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah, it was weird all of the different ways this could have turned.

If MartinD hadn't protected font (I still don't really know why he did).

If font wasn't the Blank.

If Bug didn't have the vest when cheeki decided to shoot him with the Ammo Clip (although I have to play out that scenario, may not have mattered).

Lots of other twists and turns.

[JAG]

Autumn's reaction to nearly being shot is hilarious knowing he was the seer.

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Was nice that Shoveler gave me the camo. We had 4 items by the end, camo, bullhorn, mirror and site. Wish I had the clip.

Shoveler, what made you go after timmae? We were hoping that he would get scanned and cleared (almost was) and then you dropped a bomb on us.

Yeah I had to think long and hard about whether or not to pass that item to you as I thought you might be bad. Ultimately I figured if you were it shouldn't make a difference, but the risk that you were good and could be duked to was to great.

I'll have to go back through the thread, Timmae had a couple of posts that just screamed wolf to me. After playing a couple games with him I felt that I had a good read on him. I wasn't so certain about font, so it felt like a good swap at the time.

[Autumn]

What a crazy ass game.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by JAG

Autumn's reaction to nearly being shot is hilarious knowing he was the seer.

That was quite a moment. I still cannot believe Font was a villager, I have never been more sure of anything else in my life.

[MartinD]

Thanks for running the game, Chief - a really interesting ruleset, which made it a fun game to be part of

Definitely an eventful game for me - targeted by the Bully on night 1, choosing to protect fontisian for Day 2 (the thinking was that it would be a waste to not pick someone - all else being equal (and at the point in the game where we know very little about who the wolves are), the small chance of keeping someone alive is good for the village - and I may as well pick a strong/active player...) and all the fun and games that resulted from that, the bodyguard block (yes, I did get a PM saying that this had happened) and the almost inevitable getting shot down in broad daylight...

[MrBug708]

I was throwing Hail marys up most of the game. Martin caught my eye but I had no idea if he was anyone of note.

I was fb messaging chief my picks last minute

[MrBug708]

Did font shoot me to verify I had what I had?

[JAG]

So the optimal play for the wolves the day before last would've been brutaling Bug, NK anyone but Autumn, duke the lynch to Autumn, and then NK anyone for the win if they didn't have the Stuttering Sam role left.

[Raven]

Great job guys.

Awesome game, CR!

[The Jackal]

Great game idea and execution

[Autumn]

Super close. If I hadn't struck out on seer scans so often, might have closed it out earlier. But we really lucked out with that hit on Timmae. I had him set for a scan that night, but he was cunning and would have been worse than a waste. Was so complex towards the end trying to figure out when to reveal, who to shoot. I had the ammo clip so was kind of hoping to skate by without revealing seer and get two kills, but passed the clip to Cheeki instead, figuring they'd kill Narc first. A lot of fun, Chief.

[timmae]

Just an awesome game chief. I had a ton of fun! Very cool roleset and rules. I'd play again in a second. Hope we didn't give narc insomnia for too long!!

[Raven]

Btw, I had the mirror but never had a good opportunity to use it. I considered using it on font's shot, but her shot was processed before I had time to give it enough thought.

[cheekimonk]

Super fun, Chief!! I had a 50/50 shot between Bug and Grover...glad it worked out in the end! First time I've been on a winning side. Woot!!

[Narcizo]

Sorry about flaking out at the end. Well, pretty much throughout. I calculated that the wolves would probably win if they left Autumn alone but I couldn't say that as they might not have worked it out.

The fact that I figured out Eagle after I'd basically quit goes to show that I'm astute when I'm not obsessing. But once I was back in I started obsessing again and was certain that Bug was the other wold. So, basically, I obsess way too easily. In general I'm better at reading games when I'm not in them.

I flip-flopped on Autumn being the seer or being bad ever since day two. When Brit revealed I literally has an "obvious cultist is obvious" post ready to send but I felt better of it. When Autumn didn't counter I was so confused. I thought the seer was going to be someone else who didn't reveal immediately and that no-one would believe them when they eventually did reveal.

The whole Vaimes/Font/Martin thing should have and would have cost us the game were it not for Shoveler.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to take a long break. I just don't want to expose myself to that kind of thing again, it doesn't work for me in the long run.

[Narcizo]

Very interesing and well thought-out game Chief. Thank you for running it. And thanks for your kind words. You're a gentleman.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Remember, this is a group game. We can't all be Batman.

Irony.

[fontisian]

I don't understand why anyone this game wanted Martin or Vaimes lynched. Like. I just can't understand it.

Also can't understand when I Autumn didn't anything about the entire day's worth of warning before I finally took a shot.

And Cheeki's shot on Bug after Bug's was proven to have Duked EF. The hell was that?

[fontisian]

Oh, and EF deciding to scumfirm himself by shooting the confirmed town to protect a townie? What?

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by fontisian

And Cheeki's shot on Bug after Bug's was proven to have Duked EF. The hell was that?

I thought, from Chief's description, Bug was Stuttering Sam and had attempted to duke away from EF but ended up canceling everything out so EF got lynched anyway (the whole "I say we lynch EagleFan!" "Well, we're already doing that." "Oh, well carry on."). Turns out Stuttering Sam actually stuttered. Anyway, that was my logic. Then it turned out he had the vest which reinforced to me that he was wolf (why did he have that instead of passing to Autumn?), but I just went with Shoveler's experience at that point and voted Grover.

I agree the game turned on Shoveler's shot on timmae. We were so deep in the Vaimes/font/Martin rabbit hole that we never would have recovered.

[Autumn]

So, Font, my thinking on your shot was that A) I had tried not to give any hint on whether I was Duke or Hunter, and so I was hoping that you were bluffing trying to get me to make some claims. B) I knew you and I were the last Hunters left, and you had a chance to either be the Cultist or The Blank, so I figured there were good odds your shot wouldn't work. If it didn't, the wolves would never think I was the seer and I would survive some night kills. And C) I didn't have any information to give other than that Narc was good, and I knew people would figure that out if they went back and looked.

I honestly was sure you were either the Cultist or Wolf and figured you were pushing me so hard to try to push a claim. I still don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to force a seer claim out of me at that point in the game. Yes, you gave me plenty of warning, but if each Hunter forced someone to make a claim completely on their own, where would that get us? I would have been killed pretty darn quickly one way or the other.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Did font shoot me to verify I had what I had?

Cheeki you mean? I think he was just taking a "shot" that you were the last wolf. I passed him the clip figuring it would give us a last minute chance to win. I had a scan in on Grover, so we could have just ended the game at that point and avoid a lynch (which I was hoping might still be the brutal. damn you eF)

[Narcizo]

Oh Eagle said he thought I was the bodyguard fishing for a fake reveal (or I guess protecting myself). If only I was that cunning. I truly believed Grover was the bodygaurd. There was a post where he asked something about the bodyguard and he said he was convinced that Martin was good so it seemed to make sense.

Still don't understand why Bug protected Martin. Or why the wolves tried to kill him either.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by fontisian

I don't understand why anyone this game wanted Martin or Vaimes lynched. Like. I just can't understand it.

Also can't understand when I Autumn didn't anything about the entire day's worth of warning before I finally took a shot.

And Cheeki's shot on Bug after Bug's was proven to have Duked EF. The hell was that?

a) I don't think anyone really wanted Vaimes lynched apart from because of the misunderstanding about why he wasn't killed when he tried to daykill you. I wanted Martin lynched because protecting an unknown was not a village move as it had the potential to cause confusion. As was demonstrated.

b) Autumn explained.

c) Wolf-Bug might have felt compelled to duke the lynch - he had no way of knowing how the events would be written up. If all the attempted dukings were written up he would be revealed. (I didn't lynch either - thought it might be useful later, thought the wolves had the bullhorn and would use it or that they wouldn't bother duking this time round, so they could duke Autumn next go round).

God love you Font but you really can't question anyone else's play in this one. You can be a wolf-hunting machine but you still have to be able to express yourself to get people to listen to and accept your theories. If you appear to speak down to everyone a lot of people aren't going to listen to you or are going to allow emotions to effect their rational thinking.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Did font shoot me to verify I had what I had?

You mean me? I honestly couldn't decide between you and Grover. I wanted to go back and re-read that day's post and maybe the previous one to help decide, but I also wanted to PM the shot order to Chief ASAP after NK. As I said above, the way Chief wrote up you duking back to EF made me think you were Stuttering Sam and, as a wolf, had just gotten screwed.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by JAG

So the optimal play for the wolves the day before last would've been brutaling Bug, NK anyone but Autumn, duke the lynch to Autumn, and then NK anyone for the win if they didn't have the Stuttering Sam role left.

I would have duked a lynch of Autumn to EF assuming I was still around (and I think the wolves would have NK'd Shoveler over me given the chance). With Grover being Stuttering Sam, though, he probably dukes EF which cancels my duke and Autumn goes down. So, yeah, wolves still win.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Still don't understand why Bug protected Martin. Or why the wolves tried to kill him either.

That was boggling on both counts.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Or why the wolves tried to kill him either.

We wanted to cause mass confusion.

If it weren't for that meddling Shoveler, we would have won!

[cheekimonk]

Funny that everyone, especially the vets, were convinced this game would be over in 2-3 days with half the village dead on D1, and then it goes all the way down to a 3-0 win. But Chief's tweaks to the mechanics were perfect.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Grover

We wanted to cause mass confusion.

If it weren't for that meddling Shoveler, we would have won!

It worked better than that...I was absolutely convinced at that point that the wolves had a very green noob and maybe 2. So it completely directed my attention away from you, EF, and probably timmae (he's new, but he's proven to be pretty adept at this).

[Grover]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

It worked better than that...I was absolutely convinced at that point that the wolves had a very green noob and maybe 2. So it completely directed my attention away from you, EF, and probably timmae (he's new, but he's proven to be pretty adept at this).

Heh, I'm as noob as timmae

He's just better at this than I am.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

It worked better than that...I was absolutely convinced at that point that the wolves had a very green noob and maybe 2. So it completely directed my attention away from you, EF, and probably timmae (he's new, but he's proven to be pretty adept at this).

Hey now! I take exception to that!! Errr... I'm so clueless to this game. Narc had my head spinning. I'm more of a, "eh... let's try this" type. EF's shot was more of a "let's have fun with this" moment for me. Sure Ilike to win but if people end the game pissed off, burnt out, in a corner crying, then what's the point? At one point we were considering firing at a few other people just for shits and giggles. Well, I was anyways.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by Grover

Heh, I'm as noob as timmae

He's just better at this than I am.

lol, fellow noob! You've had a shit bag of roles so far in this WW thing. I can't wait to see sorc grover or heck even just vanilla villager grover!

[Shoveler]

I went back to see what it was that put me on timmae, and to be honest I cant find it now. Not sure if it's because of already knowing he was evil, or I just cant get into that confused mindset again. So.... yeah maybe we got really lucky there.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

It worked better than that...I was absolutely convinced at that point that the wolves had a very green noob and maybe 2. So it completely directed my attention away from you, EF, and probably timmae (he's new, but he's proven to be pretty adept at this).

Your hunting is getting better... once you dial in your reads you'll be more than a little difficult to deal with. You had some very good theories that just happened to be towards the wrong people at points but you are asking the right questions. I see improvement.

And we did have 2 green noobs. And EF to deal with. I am just sad we couldn't lynch seer!EF D1 this game. Doh! Just ribbing ya big guy!

[timmae]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

I went back to see what it was that put me on timmae, and to be honest I cant find it now. Not sure if it's because of already knowing he was evil, or I just cant get into that confused mindset again. So.... yeah maybe we got really lucky there.

You will never know in a million years how stunned I was by that. Luck, skill, reads... whatever. Just an awesome hit. That should earn you some points there my friend.

I was thinking (and still kinda think) you have some tells on me from the WoT game. I hate it when people get inside my mind. I'll just need to play a little crazy next game... watch out world!

[Grover]

Originally Posted by timmae

lol, fellow noob! You've had a shit bag of roles so far in this WW thing. I can't wait to see sorc grover or heck even just vanilla villager grover!

I am fully prepared for the day one lynchings, because I have been a villager once

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

When Brit revealed I literally has an "obvious cultist is obvious" post ready to send but I felt better of it.

Sigh. You're totally right, though.

I realized that I had never played cultist before--kind of wild given the dozens of games I've played in 3 years. As availability dictated, I spent the first several game days sounding as good as I could and waiting for the opportunity to make a great distracting move. The village was doing a good enough job of that for a while.

In the meantime, I was just tracking the wolves to see how they were doing. EF played out front early, which I get to draw attention away from the newer players timmae and Grover as wolves. Timmae got that unlucky brutal, but Grover, you had a much better game as a wolf, even though you were cornered at the end.

Finally, after Font pleaded for the seer to reveal, and with no claim coming, I decided that dawn of D5 was the perfect time to false reveal. Unfortunately, I had to backfill my scans and try to be able to justify them based on the way the game had played out. That's hard to do when you're pressed for time. I mean, I didn't even get in a false clear of a surviving wolf in order to signal myself to the wolves.

But then... no counter-reveal came. I was hoping for a claim war, to eventually be outed, and hopefully for that to allow for NK shenanigans involving the BG and seer. But Autumn took advantage of this role set, lay in wait, and offed me in the best way possible.

GG to everybody--interesting to see a set with this many moving parts. Thanks for the game, Chief!

[Grover]

We really thought font was the cultist. When she named EF, timmae and I as possible wolves we thought that was it.

[Autumn]

You did a great job, Brit, I was pretty convinced you were good up until you revealed.

[Chief Rum]

There was a ton to take from this game, watching it develop behind the scenes.

Look, I was confused as some of you guys were at some moves. I had no concept why MartinD chose to watch over fontisian that day (he didn't even put in a protect order on Day One), and I was laughing when I shortly after got the shoot order from Vaimes.

Nor did I have much understanding for Bug protecting Martin or the wolves going after him. But I guess Bug's move was well thought out, because it worked.

I thought the wolves played an excellent game. Really, it came down to the shocking Shoveler duking to timmae and the unfortunate fact that Grover was Stuttering Sam.

cheeki, on the Bug duke, I probably took too much artistic license in describing that. Because Bug ended up being the only one to follow the public thread instructions to duke TO EF, it was a funny result where he was "duking" to the guy who was already getting lynched. That's not something you see a lot, so I had some fun with it in my writeup. So I'll mea culpa on that one.

Autumn had me on edge all weekend, wondering when he was going to shoot brit for the fake reveal. I am impressed he held out as long as he did. He played a very strong game.

I think the wolves were at a slight disadvantage in that Bug was not super available in the day (so he was kinda a BG UTR that was hard to pick out) and in brit being new to being a Cultist (we all have a first time) who played it a little too straight up.

I found it incredibly ironic when my random draws set up Font as the Blank. I knew that if anyone in the game was going to end up taking a shot at someone, it would be her.

Shocking revelation that still surprises me: not a single one of you used the once per game PM function. I would have thought the wolves at least would have done it to sow confusion or Autumn would have sent out a PM with his scans just before reveal or something like that. I think y'all even forgot that option was in the game lol.

Overall, it was a very impressive round of plays by everyone in a complicated ruleset. Although I felt like the beauty of this particular set is that it wasn't really that complicated by the rules. It was that their application created a complicated game, with the different factors involved. And it was great fun watching you all try to figure out how to navigate it.

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. It was a blast to run!

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Shocking revelation that still surprises me: not a single one of you used the once per game PM function. I would have thought the wolves at least would have done it to sow confusion or Autumn would have sent out a PM with his scans just before reveal or something like that. I think y'all even forgot that option was in the game lol.

Had I been good, I was pretty sure that I would have used my PM to instruct my fellow dukes/hunters to send it along to identify each other for the minor VC and to avoid the double-kills.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Had I been good, I was pretty sure that I would have used my PM to instruct my fellow dukes/hunters to send it along to identify each other for the minor VC and to avoid the double-kills.

Yeah, you were the only one who didn't have this ability, which I couldn't allow because you might tell the wolves who you are.

[Autumn]

I had the PM in my back pocket, but by the time I would have used it there weren't many Hunters left, and I suspected most of them. Could have been big in the right circumstance though.

Early in the game I considered using the PMs to try to out the cultist but decided against pushing that for some reason.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

I would have duked a lynch of Autumn to EF assuming I was still around (and I think the wolves would have NK'd Shoveler over me given the chance). With Grover being Stuttering Sam, though, he probably dukes EF which cancels my duke and Autumn goes down. So, yeah, wolves still win.

They had the bullhorn though, so they could've had a clear duking as Grover did at the end.

As for PMs, I couldn't think about how to use it for an advantage. I almost sent a fake one pretending to be a wolf and asking for the cultist to make a specific signal in their post, but that seemed lame and unbelievable due to the odds of the message reaching the cultist.

[EagleFan]

The Martin thing was me getting tunnel vision. Thought he HAD to be the seer. Must say that after my shot at him I was surprised that I wasn't lynched. The funny part is that I was also convinced that font was the cultist so I almost didn't want her lynched.

I was already planning end game when Shoveler took our knees out. Thinking that timmae could duke to Grover, sorry Grover, and been scanned he would be trusted number one. Thought of having him duke to me but duking to the brutal may still leave some doubt.