The 2010 MLB Season Thread

[RainMaker]

I feel bad for the guy in some way. He owned up to the bad call and feels remorse. But I can't figure out how he could possibly let it come to that. As an umpire, in a meaningless regular season game, how can you not give any close call to them?

I umped for years and I can tell you that if I was in a situation where a historical thing could happen to one side with the other not caring much, I would have it in my head before the pitch that any bang-bang play was going to them. I'd much rather be wrong on a call that gives someone a moment than ruin someone's moment. The fact this thought didn't go through his mind is what bothers me most.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by korme

Unbelievable. He permanently altered the historical significance, and Galarraga's entire life, like it or not! He will never be able to say he was perfect, when in fact he was.

This.

Sure people will say he had a perfect game, but it wasn't. He won't be able to throw out the first pitch 20 years from now as the only Tiger to throw a perfect game. He won't have a plaque honoring his performance at the stadium. 50 years from now it'll just look like a 1-hit shutout.

[Karlifornia]

There's a poll currently on ESPN.com that asks a question along the lines of, "If you were the umpire, and you thought it was a tie, would you have called him out?"

My answer is easily that I would have called him safe. If he honestly thought the runner at least tied, then he should have called him safe. It was a bad call. It happened to take place during the worst moment imaginable. However, the rules were known before the game started. The umps call it how they see it. If we start asking for calls based on how "Hollywood" the ending will be, then we don't have baseball. We then have shitty movies starring Kevin Costner.

[miami_fan]

Did Joyce make a mistake? Sure it was a horrible call. I give him credit though for just admitting the mistake without qualifications. He did not run from it. He did not just release a statement talking about the 99% of calls that he got right and he just missed this one. He actually talked to the media afterwards. Fuck, he actually gave the player a face to face apology. Not the next day, not the next time he happened to see him. He walked up to him like a man and said he was wrong. Yes, that and a couple of bucks will get you a latte. But Jim Joyce's actions after the fact make this incident less about Jim Joyce's bad call and more about why other officials can't take a similar approach when they make questionable calls.

[Logan]

Just an aside, I don't think I've ever seen a player ruled safe because of the ball moving while still within a player's glove. If the ball fully popped out before securing it, sure.

I really wonder what my reaction would be if this stopped the Mets' first ever no-hitter (or perfect game).

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

The Joyce hate is a silly though, seriously. He missed a call. Made a mistake. If Gallaraga had made a mistake, and allowed an double off the wall - nobody would be calling for his neck. Mistakes are part of the game. Even when they're at times like this. But when an umpire makes it - people just get so upset.

Joe Posnanski wrote - as usual - a really good blog post about last night. But I want to quote from something he wrote months ago that - unquestionably, in my mind - is the perfect answer to this argument.

But when La Russa said it [LaRussa: “I mean you watch us play, you watch me manage, nobody is perfect.”] Saturday before the Dodgers-Cardinals game, it suddenly hit me as completely off-key because it totally misses the point. Of course umpires are human. But umpires are not like players or managers. They have totally different jobs. Players, managers, they are trying to win a game. They will make mistakes in the process, of course, and this is part of what makes the game entertaining and frustrating and interesting. Their mistakes, in many ways, create the tension of baseball.

Not so with umpires. Their job is to balance the game. That’s all. They are not the entertainment division of baseball. They are in oversight. And the job is to get it right. Period. Seems to me that the comparison is flawed because we are not looking for humanity from our umpires. We are looking for accuracy. We want the most accurate weather forecasts, the most accurate traffic reports, the most accurate stock advice, the most accurate putters and the most accurate NFL injury reports. Get it right. And baseball should always be looking for more accuracy and a better way.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Rumor has it that Joyce is behind the plate for the Tigers game tomorrow......

If that had stood, good luck, David Huff, he of the 5.54 ERA. That strike zone's was going to be about the size of a thimble. Joyce sounded quite contrite and genuinely bad that he missed the call.

Seeing and hearing his and Galarraga's reactions- they were both actually quite classy (swearing aside) in this, especially considering what had just happened.

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Seeing and hearing his and Galarraga's reactions- they were both actually quite classy (swearing aside) in this, especially considering what had just happened.

SI

I agree. I watched the Galarraga interview this morning and have heard the Joyce interview a few times. Very classy by both guys. Galarraga really handled this like a pro and a gentleman. He should be lauded for this.

Given all the negative publicity that surrounds athletes all the time who act like prima donna jack-asses, the reaction by both guys should get a little more attention.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Did Joyce make a mistake? Sure it was a horrible call. I give him credit though for just admitting the mistake without qualifications. He did not run from it. He did not just release a statement talking about the 99% of calls that he got right and he just missed this one. He actually talked to the media afterwards. Fuck, he actually gave the player a face to face apology. Not the next day, not the next time he happened to see him. He walked up to him like a man and said he was wrong. Yes, that and a couple of bucks will get you a latte. But Jim Joyce's actions after the fact make this incident less about Jim Joyce's bad call and more about why other officials can't take a similar approach when they make questionable calls.

Agreed on all counts. I also hope Gallaraga doesn't get lost in all of this. his actions both after the play and after the game were unbelievable. I have a lot of respect for what that kid did.

The hesitation to use technology is baffling to me in every sport. The goal should always be to get the call right. There are ways you can get the call right and not lose a ton of time with the game. It's easy to say "this call didn't even cost the team a win," but I think that's missing the point.

Millions of dollars are at stake by these outcomes. The Rockies went to the World Series one year by "winning" a playoff game they didn't deserve to win. As a fan of the Rockies I'm sickened by that to this day. What would the outcome of the game been had they got the call right?

The NBA is the poster child for horrific refs. They put personality into the mix, call games based on who the coach, teams and players are and are an F'n joke in 80% of all big games. The NFL refs miss some, but because of replay the big calls are usually right. Hockey? You don't score without the puck crossing the line and the refs are generally pretty damned solid.

The MLB umps are becoming a bigger joke by the day. The playoffs last year were a complete disaster. Outside of Rockies games, I haven't watched a lot this year, yet I've already seen one Rockies win taken away (on the same type of call I might add), two umpires toss pitchers because the umps themselves threw a hissy fit, and now an ump cost a kid a perfect game.

It's time to admit the job isn't getting done correctly and make sure the right calls are made. I feel badly for this ump. If they could have went to replay and gotten the call right, nobody would even be mentioning his name this morning. We'd instead be talking about a 3rd perfect game in 3 weeks and how amazing the pitching was. It's a shame.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If I suck at my job, I'm going to get fired. Just like if a plaeyr sucks at their job, they'll lose it. The umpires should be punished for their mistakes

Yes, but if you're generally a good employee who makes a big mistake, it's a much more complicated instance. By all accounts, Joyce is pretty good- he's worked All Star games and the playoffs including a pair of World Series.

He openly admitted he made the wrong call after going to see the replay. This wasn't a case of a guy "trying to influence the game", it was someone trying to call it fairly and just getting it wrong.

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

With all the technology available, why are we still okay with human error being injected into the process? It's just stupid.

[markprior22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The hesitation to use technology is baffling to me in every sport. The goal should always be to get the call right. There are ways you can get the call right and not lose a ton of time with the game. It's easy to say "this call didn't even cost the team a win," but I think that's missing the point.

This....the "human element" should be left to the participants in the game as much as possible. We now have the technology (or should be able to come up with something fairly easily)...use it.

I'll even go as far as to say I wish something would be done with balls and strikes. I don't know how accurate the K-Zones and those sorts of things are (although again I'm sure they could be fine tuned to work properly) but I get so tired of seeing pitches 8 inches off the plate being called a strike and vice versa. We had to live with it before...we don't have to now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah. I'd rather see ball+strike calling robots that get the call right 100% of the time then human error all the time.

And I'm sure there's something they can do with baserunners - like I said last night - they have technology that measures when marathon runners cross lines in little shoelace-chips...why not give each runner a shoelace chip, and each fielder one on his glove or something?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah. I'd rather see ball+strike calling robots that get the call right 100% of the time then human error all the time.

I'd kill for ball/strike calling robots. I also fully predict many big name pitchers suddenly bitch about how bad the impartial robot umpires are.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah. I'd rather see ball+strike calling robots that get the call right 100% of the time then human error all the time.

And I'm sure there's something they can do with baserunners - like I said last night - they have technology that measures when marathon runners cross lines in little shoelace-chips...why not give each runner a shoelace chip, and each fielder one on his glove or something?

A few reasons come to mind
1) suitability - off hand, it sounds to me as though baseball would require something more along the lines of NASCAR's "scoring loop" system than the timing chips. We don't want to know how long it takes to get to first base, we need to know the relative positions of various objects to other various objects. Here's an article from 2006 that describes in some detail what that entails
2) cost - minor though it might be in the grand scheme of baseball revenue, that's always a factor.
3) accuracy - are those chips considered infallible (I'm only familiar with their existence, not their specifics)
2b) security - how tamper proof are these chips?
2c) durability - how well do these chips
4) consistency - are these for MLB only? Or are they going to be implemented all the way through the minor league system as well?
5) interest - cynical though it might be to say it, look how much more discussion last night has gotten than it would have otherwise.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

5) interest - cynical though it might be to say it, look how much more discussion last night has gotten than it would have otherwise.

I dunno- that kindof sounds like BCS logic to me. I'm not sure bad publicity helps.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I dunno- that kindof sounds like BCS logic to me. I'm not sure bad publicity helps.

Any publicity ... etc, etc.

FTR, I've generally advocated for removing human umpires altogether as a move for improving the game. But being in favor of the concept isn't mutually exclusive from acknowledging the challenges of accomplishing the goal.

[sterlingice]

Oh, I know. And you had other good points- I was just speaking to that one specifically.

SI

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

RT @hoynsie: #Tigers Galarraga will take lineup card to home plate. Jim Joyce will be calling balls and strikes.

http://twitter.com/ed_price/statuses/15329238514

[Ksyrup]

I have no problem leaving balls and strikes to umps - IF MLB would get tough on umps who don't call the correct strike zone accurately enough. They need to start from scratch, tell everyone what is a strike, and force umps to call the correct strike zone. I'd be happy with that kind of system if it were implemented correctly, because the human element would be lessened.

Safe/Out calls and Fair/Foul calls are easily reviewable and should be reviewed.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

With all the technology available, why are we still okay with human error being injected into the process? It's just stupid.

Isn't the simplest question just to ask...do you think that today there is one particular umpire who would give anything for replay to be involved?

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

A few reasons come to mind
1) suitability - off hand, it sounds to me as though baseball would require something more along the lines of NASCAR's "scoring loop" system than the timing chips. We don't want to know how long it takes to get to first base, we need to know the relative positions of various objects to other various objects. Here's an article from 2006 that describes in some detail what that entails
2) cost - minor though it might be in the grand scheme of baseball revenue, that's always a factor.
3) accuracy - are those chips considered infallible (I'm only familiar with their existence, not their specifics)
2b) security - how tamper proof are these chips?
2c) durability - how well do these chips
4) consistency - are these for MLB only? Or are they going to be implemented all the way through the minor league system as well?
5) interest - cynical though it might be to say it, look how much more discussion last night has gotten than it would have otherwise.

All fine reasons, but I think the biggest question for all technology-inspired calls besides balls and strikes is just notification. The safe/out, fair/foul call needs to be made instantaneously because the immediate result of what happens next depends on the call. Let's just say the system works well enough where a red light indicates out and a green light indicates safe...how are those messages being conveyed? By a mobile robot which is positioned where umpires normally are but can move out of the way if the ball is hit in that area?

Just don't see it happening...but I do think we'll get an extension of replay as well as automated ball/strike calls eventually.

[DaddyTorgo]

for balls/strikes you could just put it on the scoreboard in CF for the batter and for the pitcher have a display behind home plate back on the wall into the stands.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

for balls/strikes you could just put it on the scoreboard in CF for the batter and for the pitcher have a display behind home plate back on the wall into the stands.

I think the biggest question for all technology-inspired calls besides balls and strikes is just notification.

[Ksyrup]

If someone can come up with a Stephen Hawking rap song, they can do something about robots calling safe or out.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

for plays at first base it's simple. for catches/traps it's simple. for steal's it's simple. for plays at home it's simple.

the only time you'll run into an issue might be with players taking an extra base - but even then i don't think the notification of say whether the player is safe or out at home is ever even taken into account by the guy going from 1b to 2b. the play is moving too fast - i don't think the outcome of what's happening to another baserunner affects the decision of a second baserunner.

[Scoobz0202]

I didn't realize Galarraga lost to Dontrelle Willis in Spring Training for a spot in the rotation. He was called up in mid may. Poor guy, this would have been the ultimate cindarella story lol

[Drake]

As much as I hate to say it, I strongly suspect that David Ortiz chose going back on the juice versus going away quietly.

It's sad when I can't look at a resurgence without suspicion.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

for plays at first base it's simple. for catches/traps it's simple. for steal's it's simple. for plays at home it's simple.

I don't see how any of these situations would be described as "simple" unless you think it's simple to have everyone turn towards the scoreboard to see what the call is before figuring out what to do next.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Drake

As much as I hate to say it, I strongly suspect that David Ortiz chose going back on the juice versus going away quietly.

It's sad when I can't look at a resurgence without suspicion.

Agreed.

/tk

[Ksyrup]

Mich. governor awards Galarraga ‘perfect game’

MACKINAC ISLAND, Mich. (AP)—Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm says Detroit Tigers pitcher Armando Galarraga “was robbed” of a perfect game by an umpire’s blown call.

Granholm posted a comment on Twitter after Wednesday night’s game saying she was issuing a proclamation “declaring Galarraga pitched a perfect game.” She made similar comments Thursday on Mackinac Island during an interview with WJR radio.

First base umpire Jim Joyce declared a runner safe with two outs left in the ninth inning, costing Galarraga a perfect game. After seeing the replay, Joyce said he blew the call and apologized to the pitcher for not realizing Cleveland’s Jason Donald didn’t beat the throw to first base.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Drake

As much as I hate to say it, I strongly suspect that David Ortiz chose going back on the juice versus going away quietly.

It's sad when I can't look at a resurgence without suspicion.

This is part of my problem with the black and white nature of the average fans' beliefs concerning PEDs. Ortiz had a strong finish to 2009. I seriously doubt he came into 2010 thinking he was going to hit .150 or whatever. Do you really believe that Ortiz was able to take some magic elixir or concoction of drugs at some point 2-3 weeks into April that suddenly trasformed him into Albert Pujols for the next 30 days? Even if I accept that PEDs are really "performance enhancing," I simply cannot believe that the cause-and-effect would be that black and white.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah. I'd rather see ball+strike calling robots that get the call right 100% of the time then human error all the time.

And I'm sure there's something they can do with baserunners - like I said last night - they have technology that measures when marathon runners cross lines in little shoelace-chips...why not give each runner a shoelace chip, and each fielder one on his glove or something?

It's a game played by and judged by PEOPLE. Let's keep it that way, unless you dream of a truly sterile world where we replace human with robots in every aspect of life...

Keep it as it is. Baseball is great because the baseball you see played by kids on a sandlot is the baseball you see played at the ballpark.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

I don't see how any of these situations would be described as "simple" unless you think it's simple to have everyone turn towards the scoreboard to see what the call is before figuring out what to do next.

As I said - I don't think it affects the ongoing nature of the play as much as MLB wants us to believe. If a baserunner is ahead of the guy he's not looking back to see whether he was safe or out before continuing on. If the baserunner is behind the guy then he's similarly not looking at the result of the play going on at home or third base before deciding to take second or third. And even if he was, he should make the decision independent of that - worst case scenario the guy ahead of him is called out and he gets the extra base. If the play is remotely close then the guy should treat it like he was safe and the players (on both sides) keep on playing.

[Ksyrup]

I'm not sure I understand the concerns about the continuity of the play when the same problems exist in football. Catches, fumbles, out of bounds, knee down, etc., all stop the play and render what did or could have happened after it meaningless in nearly all circumstances.

[DeToxRox]

Joyce just came on the field in tears before Armando Galarraga handed him the lineup card and shook his hand. Joyce was booed but not as bad as one would think.

Also, Galarraga was presented with a Corvette before the game which was cool to see.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

It's a game played by and judged by PEOPLE. Let's keep it that way, unless you dream of a truly sterile world where we replace human with robots in every aspect of life...

Keep it as it is. Baseball is great because the baseball you see played by kids on a sandlot is the baseball you see played at the ballpark.

But don't we want the rules to be uniform and fair across the board? We aren't talking about having robots play the game. I don't see people up in arms about drawing chalk lines on the field of play for fair and foul so why does it matter if we do that for the strike zone or safe/out other than "that's how it's always been"?

It's not as if kids can't suddenly play baseball on a sandlot and it will be different if you have higher technology doing what is supposed to be impartial judging. None of them can hit or field like Pujols but that doesn't mean they can't still play. Just because the umpire system is different doesn't mean it's not baseball.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Joyce just came on the field in tears before Armando Galarraga handed him the lineup card and shook his hand. Joyce was booed but not as bad as one would think.

Also, Galarraga was presented with a Corvette before the game which was cool to see.

Sounds like a good game to listen to until the Royals start

SI

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Baseball is great because the baseball you see played by kids on a sandlot is the baseball you see played at the ballpark.

Truer words were never spoken.

+1

[DeToxRox]

Austin Jackson just made another amazing over the shoulder catch, this time to the deepest part of the park. Not as spectacular as last night but he made up about the same amount of ground.

Kid is going to a special player.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

It's a game played by and judged by PEOPLE. Let's keep it that way, unless you dream of a truly sterile world where we replace human with robots in every aspect of life...

No. Just the baseball today, thanks.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And for all this talk about replay, has anyone even considered that you're talking about adding more replay (and more delays) to a game that already has length as a major concern?

While I personally find the whole argument that "baseball takes too long" pretty ridiculous, there's no denying that's it is a pretty big concern for MLB in the past few years. And that's something that I believe is a significant hurdle for additional replay to clear.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm not sure I understand the concerns about the continuity of the play when the same problems exist in football. Catches, fumbles, out of bounds, knee down, etc., all stop the play and render what did or could have happened after it meaningless in nearly all circumstances.

Me neither. I just always thought that was MLB's big argument against it.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Joyce just came on the field in tears before Armando Galarraga handed him the lineup card and shook his hand. Joyce was booed but not as bad as one would think.

Also, Galarraga was presented with a Corvette before the game which was cool to see.

I actually expected very few boos for him. Yes, some people still want to show frustration, but most of the fans have feelings.

The guy admitted he screwed up the call. He fell on his sword to the media, the fans, the players. He was emotional and you could tell he was genuinely remorseful for missing the call. What more do most of us want? Him to be drawn and quartered in CF before the start of the game?

Hell, this is a guy who cares. If anything, this is why it should be easier to get more replay in games. If a well respected umpire who cares about his craft screws up a call like that, any of them can. Use technology to get the calls right.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Me neither. I just always thought that was MLB's big argument against it.

I've never really understood that part either. 95% of the plays in baseball that would be impacted are one and done calls. About the only thing that would cause extra play would be a diving catch/non catch in the outfield. Most every other decision is an end to the play at hand.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

It's a game played by and judged by PEOPLE. Let's keep it that way, unless you dream of a truly sterile world where we replace human with robots in every aspect of life...

I am not sure how you can make this argument if you watched last night's Flyers/Blackhawks game. That's Exhibit A for how a replay system can work and work well and right.

If the game was left as just a game played and judged by PEOPLE, Philly's second goal wouldn't have counted, since the PEOPLE judging the game said it was not a goal. Luckily, the PEOPLE who watched the replay on video got it right.

[Ksyrup]

Galarraga is going to end up with more fame/immortality over this incident than if the call had been correct. You can scarcely discuss perfect games without mentioning Harvey Haddix, and now you can add Galarraga. I'd say the most famous pitchers in perfect game history are Haddix, Larsen, Galarraga, and maybe Len Barker (simply because it had been so long between the last one and his; plus, the Brett Butler trade a few years later).

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

While I personally find the whole argument that "baseball takes too long" pretty ridiculous, there's no denying that's it is a pretty big concern for MLB in the past few years. And that's something that I believe is a significant hurdle for additional replay to clear.

Curious why you find it ridiculous, IMO watching a 4 hour marathon game gets tedious and I love baseball.

I think the bigger problem is when you get into the playoffs you have games ending after midnight on the East Coast and that is to late for kids who have school the next day to stay up.

[Ksyrup]

10pm is too late for most kids to stay up on a school night, no? I mean, outside of high schoolers maybe? My daughter just finished 5th grade, and she's up in her room by 8pm. She's allowed to read until 8:30 or 9pm, but no TV.

Then again, based on the informal survey of parents we've done, I think we might be in the minority on bed time (which is personally nuts to me).

[Lathum]

I agree with you KSyrup, however, if a game was on until 10-10:30 I would likely let my kid stay up to watch it all other things being equal. Under no circumstances would I let them stay up until 12:30-1:00

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I agree with you KSyrup, however, if a game was on until 10-10:30 I would likely let my kid stay up to watch it all other things being equal. Under no circumstances would I let them stay up until 12:30-1:00

Fortunately the Mets will never make the playoffs again in his lifetime!!

*ducks*