WW 103? - 42 Attempts (Game Over - Conspirators Win) - Page 29

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:21 PM

I don't see anything on that in the rules, CR, about Elser. But I would have to imagine the wolves all knew who each other were. If there were only three of them and the convert, which is obviously the case, making it so that Elser was unknown to the other wolves would've been a bit ridiculous.

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm going to stare at the vote count for the next twenty-thirty minutes to see if it reveals anything, but so far, nothing.

Been doing the same thing, particularly looking at what it means if each of you were bad how the final voting would've looked, but still got nothing.

Although if CR is good, that means no bad guys ever voted for Jackal except a meaningless Autumn vote.

If CR is bad, I'm surprised at how often his vote would've been unnecessarily grouped with another wolf in the first three days. Although I guess with him on the chopping block two of those, I could see it.

Although (stream of consciousness), day 2 is striking me as possibly odd for something I damned Jackal on earlier today. Look at this trend:

Day 1, CR is a final candidate. D2, I put an early vote on Darth which Autumn (BAD) quickly seconds. CR gets reintroduced by Darth and Bulletsponge seconds that. The next vote is Lathum, trying to introduce a third candidate, possibly trying to take the heat off of CR.

I'll do this for now:

unvote Jackal

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I don't see anything on that in the rules, CR, about Elser. But I would have to imagine the wolves all knew who each other were. If there were only three of them and the convert, which is obviously the case, making it so that Elser was unknown to the other wolves would've been a bit ridiculous.

I think we need to confirm this.

EAGLEFAN: Did the wolves all know who each other were (other than Rommel of course)?

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Vote NTN

early vote on CR, who is a very good villager. Plus at the time there were 6 people who already had votes on them, including Darth who had 2. So instead of consolidating he brought a 7th person into the mix.

This is the Lathum vote I'm referring to.

Also, day 1, Lathum votes Schmidty pretty early (makes it a four way tie with 1 vote each). Does he do this day 1 with another wolf when d1 runs are very unpredictable?

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:27 PM

One compliment to you three. It is nice as endgame is here that all four of us were able to get on and chat. That rarely happens, which can be frustrating.

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think we need to confirm this.

EAGLEFAN: Did the wolves all know who each other were (other than Rommel of course)?

+1 here. I put it in Iggles green so EF will notice.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I didn't ever realize the meeting was 3 hours prior to deadline.

I saw 7 and my brain thought the meeting was the same time as the deadline because the deadline is 7 my time.

My only problem is I may not be on after 2:30 my time. I have class than am going to a happy hour for a co worker of my wife who is leaving. My vote may have to stand

One problem with your look at Lathum's vote, PB, is the context. He posted this shortly after voting for ntn.

I was clearly going to be a candidate, and we know Lathum was a wolf. Darth Vilius was also already established as a likely candidate.

Here, Lathum is saying he's leaving for the day and he won't be back (and he wasn't). So why would he introduce a third candidate and not get on Darth Vilius? Not like he was going to be around later to influence the vote or to move it if needed. Seems a rather careless move from a fellow wolf, don't you think?

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:29 PM

Those are some good points, PB. Generally as a wolf you avoid other wolves on day 1 - unless they are early/first votes, which would seem to apply to Lathum's vote. But it still raises concerns.

Schmidty · 10-20-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Why did you vote for the runaway candidate on Day One (DT) and ntndeacon (Day Four)? It's something that always looks a little wolfish to me at times (when anyone does it, not just you).

I know some runaways can't be avoided, but figured I would ask. Neither of those votes ended up runaways.

I voted for ntn partly because he mentioned me as a suspect, but mostly because I really respect him as a player, and he was the only cleared player at the time.

As far as DT goes, this pretty much explains why:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Fine, I'll unvote, you bully.

Unvote The Jackal

Vote DT

I agree that what DT said was awkward and pretty much makes him an easy target. At the same time, I hate lynching people when they aren't around at the deadline to defend themselves.

Hope you're right.

Not a great reason, but it was day one.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:30 PM

Yeah, that would be a fairly careless vote on a fellow wolf unless it was pre-arranged, but definitely not a negative for CR.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

One compliment to you three. It is nice as endgame is here that all four of us were able to get on and chat. That rarely happens, which can be frustrating.

Yeah, it is nice for a change.

Glad to see we're all here.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:32 PM

What are the negatives against me, though? Aside from having no votes on a wolf early on. I was in the mix of candidates for some reason (promoted by a wolf once, in Autumn) - but I've done nothing to raise suspicion, just been mentioned often as someone who needs to be looked at.

I can't defend by votes, they've been poor, but sometimes that's what happens when you know jackshit.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:33 PM

*my votes

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I voted for ntn partly because he mentioned me as a suspect, but mostly because I really respect him as a player, and he was the only cleared player at the time.

Maybe I'm missing something context wise but can you better explain the bolded part Schmidty?

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:34 PM

No EagleFan.

We may not get to know the answer to our question before deadline.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:34 PM

Normally when I've been a wolf my votes are calculated, as at least PB can attest to. None of my votes have been very calculated this time. I almost never go off on someone based on gut like I did on NTN when I'm a wolf. I generally try to draw little attention to my votes, not more attention. As do most wolves, I imagine.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No EagleFan.

We may not get to know the answer to our question before deadline.

I would suggest you assume the wolves knew each other, even if one couldn't PM. Otherwise this game would've been very unfairly balanced.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:35 PM

I mean, think about it. 3 wolves in a somewhat large game, and two of them don't know the third and don't know the convert? No way.

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

He acts alone and does not have any affiliation with the Nazi party and thus not with the other conspirators. He wins with the conspiracy though he does not have PM rights.

This is from Lathum's role. I'm actually going to assume that he/they do not know each other, meaning that whoever voted Lathum rather than Autumn or switched could possibly be a wolf. Have to look at those votes again.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Normally when I've been a wolf my votes are calculated, as at least PB can attest to. None of my votes have been very calculated this time. I almost never go off on someone based on gut like I did on NTN when I'm a wolf. I generally try to draw little attention to my votes, not more attention. As do most wolves, I imagine.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's a little meta-gamey, though. I could probably make the same argument about my fight with KWhit. No way I get drawn into that as a wolf. But I don't know it's right to argue that.

Someone else put up that point a day or two ago.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:37 PM

And yes, this is a fun group of people to have around at the end of the game. Whatever the result, an interesting leadup to the deadline awaits us.

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:38 PM

The whole "he acts alone and does not have any affilation with...the other conspirators" makes it sound like a lone wolf role.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's a little meta-gamey, though. I could probably make the same argument about my fight with KWhit. No way I get drawn into that as a wolf. But I don't know it's right to argue that.

Someone else put up that point a day or two ago.

It is a bit meta-gamey. I try to avoid thinking about any tussles in-thread, IE the one in my Labyrinth game, those things are generally completely out of game related, they are feelings based on how the person feels, not how their character would react. And we're a tight enough community that no one would fake such a reaction and be respected afterwards. I'm not saying that doesn't make you a wolf, just that I'm ignoring that when looking at the game.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

This is from Lathum's role. I'm actually going to assume that he/they do not know each other, meaning that whoever voted Lathum rather than Autumn or switched could possibly be a wolf. Have to look at those votes again.

Switched which way? Switching from Lathum to Autumn would suggest to me that those switching--myself and Schmidty--made the decision to lynch Autumn instead of someone who was likely a villager from our perspective. That would actually return us to validating that vote as legit and pretty much clearing me and Schmidty.

Unfortunately, I happen to agree with The Jackal. I don't think that's the case. My guess is all of the conspirators knew each other.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

The whole "he acts alone and does not have any affilation with...the other conspirators" makes it sound like a lone wolf role.

I suppose so. But only two wolves knowing each other, a lone wolf, and an unknown convert? If that was the case, kudos to the wolves for getting this far, even with their two assassination possibilities.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:41 PM

CR - what does this piece of info do for you either way, if the wolves knew each other or not?

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

CR - what does this piece of info do for you either way, if the wolves knew each other or not?

It hangs you. It would practically clear Schmidty and I. No way we would hang the wolf we know (Autumn) on that day for an unknown in Lathum, even if we had suspicions.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:43 PM

Schmidty is being too quiet. Making me feel weirder about him, I donno.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:43 PM

Well, it hangs you if we continue to consider PB not a wolf. I still generally feel that way.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It hangs you. It would practically clear Schmidty and I. No way we would hang the wolf we know (Autumn) on that day for an unknown in Lathum, even if we had suspicions.

Gotcha. I'm glad I got my thoughts out there about it before you said that.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, it hangs you if we continue to consider PB not a wolf. I still generally feel that way.

Let's look at PB here, we've got about 15ish minutes.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:44 PM

Okay, we need to make something, so I'll vote.

VOTE THE JACKAL

I may still change, but right now, that's the way I am leaning.

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Let's look at PB here, we've got about 15ish minutes.

I'm tall, 6'2", 225 lbs., currently walking with a terrible limp, I have rapier like wit and dark, Italian features. Frankly, I think I'm a stud and a catch...

...wife would say otherwise.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Let's look at PB here, we've got about 15ish minutes.

Yup, good idea. Sorry to put a vote on you right now (if you're not a wolf), but we need to get some action here or we'll all be dropping votes at 6:59.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:46 PM

PB:

Day 1: Early vote that ends up being a throwaway on KWhit.
Day 2: First vote on Darth, never moves, Darth goes down.
Day 3: 4th vote on BS, can't go back and see the exact movement, but voting a villager either way.
Day 4: 3rd vote on NTN, ended up being me vs NTN, so I can't say much there.
Day 5: First vote on Sal when it was Autumn vs Sal.

Schmidty · 10-20-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Maybe I'm missing something context wise but can you better explain the bolded part Schmidty?

I meant Danny was the only cleared player.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:47 PM

I understand, CR. I still don't know who I'm voting for. And even if I do end up getting lynched, this isn't a situation where I'm going to be angry about it.

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:47 PM

Thanks Schmidty, that had me wondering.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:48 PM

Best argument for PB's innocence is that he put up saldana as a target when Autumn was the runaway candidate on Day 5.

If you're trying to save your fellow wolf, you wouldn't put up another wolf as the competition.

Of course, if PB didn't know Lathum was a wolf...

We really need an answer to that question.

Schmidty · 10-20-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Schmidty is being too quiet. Making me feel weirder about him, I donno.

Schmidty's wife was nagging him to make dinner. So he threw some chicken skewers in the oven.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:49 PM

Back IRL, the Angels are sucking.

Back to WW...

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:49 PM

Why wouldn't you put up the non-essential wolf as competition? Not sure I understand that. At that point in the game you have to think that Autumn and lathdana were going down in the next couple days anyways, so putting a vote there isn't completely unexpected. I think it's clear the wolves ended up pinning their hopes on whoever the last one is, because we clearly can't decide.

PurdueBrad · 10-20-2009, 08:49 PM

CR, a lot of late votes/late vote movement from you, would you characterize this as your normal style?

Schmidty · 10-20-2009, 08:49 PM

Well, I'm just going to get this over with. I am almost positive that PB is good, and I am pretty sure that CR is too:

Vote Jackal

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:50 PM

Ok Schmidty, that's cool - I have to implore you I'm not the answer. Even if you think I am, who would you choose between CR and PB? I want to hear everyone's opinions because I'm trying to decide myself.

Chief Rum · 10-20-2009, 08:50 PM

So right now, it's just my vote on The Jackal. No other votes out there currently.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:50 PM

Well, guys, this is absolutely a loss, but what can I say.

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:51 PM

I really don't think it is PB. If it is, damn good job PB. I've felt better about CR today.

So:

VOTE SCHMIDTY

The Jackal · 10-20-2009, 08:51 PM

Whatever happens, good game.

And I'm here if there are any late questions.

Schmidty · 10-20-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Ok Schmidty, that's cool - I have to implore you I'm not the answer. Even if you think I am, who would you choose between CR and PB? I want to hear everyone's opinions because I'm trying to decide myself.

I don't feel great about any of you too be honest.

If I HAD to choose between those two, it would be Chief even tough I don't think he's a wolf because I am almost positive that PB is good.

10-20-2009, 08:34 PM	#1415
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	No EagleFan. We may not get to know the answer to our question before deadline. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

10-20-2009, 08:43 PM	#1429
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Well, it hangs you if we continue to consider PB not a wolf. I still generally feel that way. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

10-20-2009, 08:44 PM	#1432
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Okay, we need to make something, so I'll vote. VOTE THE JACKAL I may still change, but right now, that's the way I am leaning. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

10-20-2009, 08:48 PM	#1439
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Best argument for PB's innocence is that he put up saldana as a target when Autumn was the runaway candidate on Day 5. If you're trying to save your fellow wolf, you wouldn't put up another wolf as the competition. Of course, if PB didn't know Lathum was a wolf... We really need an answer to that question. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

10-20-2009, 08:49 PM	#1441
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Back IRL, the Angels are sucking. Back to WW... __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

10-20-2009, 08:21 PM	#1401
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I don't see anything on that in the rules, CR, about Elser. But I would have to imagine the wolves all knew who each other were. If there were only three of them and the convert, which is obviously the case, making it so that Elser was unknown to the other wolves would've been a bit ridiculous.

10-20-2009, 08:27 PM	#1405
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	One compliment to you three. It is nice as endgame is here that all four of us were able to get on and chat. That rarely happens, which can be frustrating.

10-20-2009, 08:29 PM	#1408
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Those are some good points, PB. Generally as a wolf you avoid other wolves on day 1 - unless they are early/first votes, which would seem to apply to Lathum's vote. But it still raises concerns.

10-20-2009, 08:30 PM	#1410
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Yeah, that would be a fairly careless vote on a fellow wolf unless it was pre-arranged, but definitely not a negative for CR.

10-20-2009, 08:32 PM	#1412
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	What are the negatives against me, though? Aside from having no votes on a wolf early on. I was in the mix of candidates for some reason (promoted by a wolf once, in Autumn) - but I've done nothing to raise suspicion, just been mentioned often as someone who needs to be looked at. I can't defend by votes, they've been poor, but sometimes that's what happens when you know jackshit.

10-20-2009, 08:33 PM	#1413
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	*my votes

10-20-2009, 08:34 PM	#1416
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Normally when I've been a wolf my votes are calculated, as at least PB can attest to. None of my votes have been very calculated this time. I almost never go off on someone based on gut like I did on NTN when I'm a wolf. I generally try to draw little attention to my votes, not more attention. As do most wolves, I imagine.

10-20-2009, 08:35 PM	#1418
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I mean, think about it. 3 wolves in a somewhat large game, and two of them don't know the third and don't know the convert? No way.

10-20-2009, 08:37 PM	#1421
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	And yes, this is a fun group of people to have around at the end of the game. Whatever the result, an interesting leadup to the deadline awaits us.

10-20-2009, 08:38 PM	#1422
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	The whole "he acts alone and does not have any affilation with...the other conspirators" makes it sound like a lone wolf role.

10-20-2009, 08:41 PM	#1426
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	CR - what does this piece of info do for you either way, if the wolves knew each other or not?

10-20-2009, 08:43 PM	#1428
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Schmidty is being too quiet. Making me feel weirder about him, I donno.

10-20-2009, 08:46 PM	#1435
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	PB: Day 1: Early vote that ends up being a throwaway on KWhit. Day 2: First vote on Darth, never moves, Darth goes down. Day 3: 4th vote on BS, can't go back and see the exact movement, but voting a villager either way. Day 4: 3rd vote on NTN, ended up being me vs NTN, so I can't say much there. Day 5: First vote on Sal when it was Autumn vs Sal.

10-20-2009, 08:47 PM	#1437
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I understand, CR. I still don't know who I'm voting for. And even if I do end up getting lynched, this isn't a situation where I'm going to be angry about it.

10-20-2009, 08:47 PM	#1438
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Thanks Schmidty, that had me wondering.

10-20-2009, 08:49 PM	#1442
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Why wouldn't you put up the non-essential wolf as competition? Not sure I understand that. At that point in the game you have to think that Autumn and lathdana were going down in the next couple days anyways, so putting a vote there isn't completely unexpected. I think it's clear the wolves ended up pinning their hopes on whoever the last one is, because we clearly can't decide.

10-20-2009, 08:49 PM	#1443
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	CR, a lot of late votes/late vote movement from you, would you characterize this as your normal style?

10-20-2009, 08:49 PM	#1444
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	Well, I'm just going to get this over with. I am almost positive that PB is good, and I am pretty sure that CR is too: Vote Jackal __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

10-20-2009, 08:50 PM	#1445
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Ok Schmidty, that's cool - I have to implore you I'm not the answer. Even if you think I am, who would you choose between CR and PB? I want to hear everyone's opinions because I'm trying to decide myself.

10-20-2009, 08:50 PM	#1446
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	So right now, it's just my vote on The Jackal. No other votes out there currently. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

10-20-2009, 08:50 PM	#1447
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Well, guys, this is absolutely a loss, but what can I say.

10-20-2009, 08:51 PM	#1448
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I really don't think it is PB. If it is, damn good job PB. I've felt better about CR today. So: VOTE SCHMIDTY

10-20-2009, 08:51 PM	#1449
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Whatever happens, good game. And I'm here if there are any late questions.

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