Soccer Thread 2013-14

[law90026]

And Arsenal were completely energised and ready to come play against Swansea ... wait, no, they came out flat and uninspired and, outside of a 2 minute spell, were pretty awful.

2-2 and now the race not to fall out of 4th begins.

[Critch]

Thought this was kind of funny:

[flere-imsaho]

There's a walk of shame if I've ever seen one.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

The same can be said about 'double punishment'. Although going through this thread, red card + penalty kick appears to get decent support around here.

It's a triple punishment - there's a ban as well as the penalty and sending off.

And the refusal to correct things following video evidence produces results like this: Vidic was the victim of the Sturridge dive in the Utd-Liverpool game (replay shows no contact whatsoever, ref got it wrong) and yet he was still banned from the Utd-City game. Unintended consequence - O-C commits red card offence and no ban, Vidic commits no offence but is still banned.

Put this punishment into gridiron terms:

Ball on the offense's 40 yard line. It's snapped. Quarterback drops back, wide receiver takes on the cornerback for speed. Gets beyond him, quarterback throws a perfect pass for the wide receiver to catch ten yards out and score a touchdown but the cornerback blunders into him preventing the catch and touchdown. The call is pass interference.

Foul prevents a score!

Punishment: say four new downs from a yard out for offense, cornerback prevented from playiing for the rest of the match and coach not allowed to replace him. Coach has to designate defensive and special teams players who cannot take the field so that offense, defense and special teams all play with ten men from there on. Cornerback also banned from future game(s).

Sensible punishment? That's pretty much the equivalent of what happens in soccer.

So, give a penalty, even penalty goal if greater punishment is desired Get on with the game and stop turning it into a game of attrition and survival and ruining the spectacle for the fans.

All other sports seem to get away with disciplining players without destroying the match up of x players against x players (closest is possibly sin bin in hockey and rugby which are relatively brief and only temporary)

Even more physical games - with much greater potential for vicious play - such as gridiron, rugby and Aussie Rules all manage to control discipline without permanently destroying the numerical match up of players. Soccer should find a way as well - have the offending player replaced by the coach and dealt with in disciplinary hearings - works for other sports.

It's a classic case of "unintended consequences". Originally introduced specifically for the deliberate foul to stop a one-on-one goal scoring situation but now demanded for any foul anywhere near the penalty area and almost always in the area particularly from the 'keeper. And the second yellow dismissal has the game transformed for something as pathetic as kicking the ball away or celebrating a goal to enthusiastically.

It happens now about one game in three. Yes there are occasionally heroics from the ten men but usually the game is over with the sending off particularly when there's a penalty as well.

We need to stop destroying the game. Deal with the player in a disciplinary hearing.

Isn't there a move in Germany to have this punishment dropped?

Edit:

just went over to the Guardian web site for last night's results and immediately came across this report on West Ham 2 Hull 1:

"The victory against 10 men came through a penalty that Hull rightly disputed and which resulted in their goalkeeper, Allan McGregor, being sent off"

Clubs can lose their Premier League status through an error amplified by this rule.

[bhlloy]

While I tend to agree with you about the frequency of red cards, I do think you are a little disingenuous with comparisons to other sports. Rugby has a sin-bin, but it also has red cards that have even more disastrous consequences for the competitiveness of the game (see Scotland vs Wales last week) and even the sin-bin often completely changes the complexion of the game. The main selling point for treating the disallowing of a goal scoring opportunity in soccer is that there's so fricking few goals to begin with - that rugby tackle on half way that genuinely and deliberately stops a goal scoring opportunity may well be the best chance of the entire game. In the spirit of the rule, there has to be something so punative that fundamentally prevents players from doing those kind of cynical fouls - the true "professional" foul.

Now, do I absolutely agree that you are correct, that the volume of red cards is killing the game and we've got a million miles away from that? Yeah, no doubt about that (and the McGregor decision sounds like an absolute travesty) If we could go back to the early 90's, where today's red card was a yellow card and a red card was reserved for an obvious cynical foul to stop a goalscoring opportunity, a ridiculously dangerous tackle or actually punching somebody, I think that would be fine without having to completely rewrite the rules of the sport. Unfortunately, we're in this situation where cards are handed out like candy and any foul around the box or with an attacker running towards goal is an expected red. So in that respect, I completely agree with what you are saying.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

While I tend to agree with you about the frequency of red cards, I do think you are a little disingenuous with comparisons to other sports. Rugby has a sin-bin, but it also has red cards that have even more disastrous consequences for the competitiveness of the game (see Scotland vs Wales last week) and even the sin-bin often completely changes the complexion of the game. The main selling point for treating the disallowing of a goal scoring opportunity in soccer is that there's so fricking few goals to begin with - that rugby tackle on half way that genuinely and deliberately stops a goal scoring opportunity may well be the best chance of the entire game. In the spirit of the rule, there has to be something so punative that fundamentally prevents players from doing those kind of cynical fouls - the true "professional" foul.

Now, do I absolutely agree that you are correct, that the volume of red cards is killing the game and we've got a million miles away from that? Yeah, no doubt about that (and the McGregor decision sounds like an absolute travesty) If we could go back to the early 90's, where today's red card was a yellow card and a red card was reserved for an obvious cynical foul to stop a goalscoring opportunity, a ridiculously dangerous tackle or actually punching somebody, I think that would be fine without having to completely rewrite the rules of the sport. Unfortunately, we're in this situation where cards are handed out like candy and any foul around the box or with an attacker running towards goal is an expected red. So in that respect, I completely agree with what you are saying.

Why disingenuous? I did mention the sin bin in hockey and rugby. And the red card in rugby is like the old soccer red card - you have to set about a player with a baseball bat to invoke it and it's very rare The problem, as you say, in soccer is that it's become commonplace. One match in three, or in four? Something like that.

The sin bin is as close as you get to a common punishment. But the sin bin is temporary and you can batten down for 10/15 minutes and resume the normal game after. It's not terminal. Even so most sports manage without this.

There are three things you need to deal with -

1) the "professional foul" stopping an attempt on goal:

Inside the box a penalty goal. Outside the box a penalty. (as you say, a goal is so rare in soccer that these are significant punishments)

2) violent offence:

Player forcibly replaced and dealt with severe ban and fine based on weekly wages imposed in disciplinary hearing

3) repeated minor offences

yellow card totted up and significant ban imposed in hearing.

Video evidence needs to be used in hearings regardless of whether "the ref has already punished it" to minimise error.

Offences are usually individual player offences but clubs whose teams repeatedly offend should also be dealt with with bans and fines in hearings.

Obviously a deal of thought needs to be put into it (not FIFA's strong point) but something along the lines of the above should suffice without damaging the game.

[SirFozzie]

BBC Sport - Nations League: New European competition to start in 2018
UEFA Nations League launched at UEFA Congress - UEFA.org

Probably a pretty blatant cash grab, as it gives UEFA new rights to sell, but here's the details, such as they're known:

Starts in 2018 (Divisional Games from September 2018-November 2018), and will feed four teams directly to Euro 2020 qualifying.

Pushes back the start of Euro 2020 qualifying to March 2019.

Top Division (currently entitled "Division A") will feature 4 groups of three teams, playing each other twice. The winners play off in a "Final Four" to determine the UEFA Nations champion.

There will be promotion and relegation between the divisions (unknown if it's direct promotion/relegation or if there will be playoffs between say the top teams in Division 2 and the worst teams in Division 1)

[SirFozzie]

Dola:

So as more and correct information gets out, here's some more about the UEFA Nations League

4 divisions of 12-14 teams.
The winner of each division receives a Euro 2020 spot without having to qualify.

The initial breakdown will be based on UEFA National team qualification. If the breakdown happened today,, this is what it would look like

Division A: (4 groups of 3)
Spain, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, England, Portugal, Greece,, Russia, Bosnia/Herzegovina, Ukraine, France, Croatia

Division B: (4 groups of 3)
Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Czech Republic, Hungary, Ireland, Serbia, Turkey, Slovenia,, Israel, Norway

Division C: (4 groups of 3)
Slovakia, Romania, Austria, Poland, Montenegro, Armenia, Scotland, Finland, Latvia, Wales, Bulgaria, Estonia

Division D: (2 Groups of 4, 2 groups of 3)
Belarus, Iceland, Northern Ireland, Albania, Lithuania, Moldova, Macedonia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Cyprus, Luxembourg, Kazakhstan, Liechtenstein, Faeroe Islands, Malta, Andorra, San Marino, Gibraltar

[sovereignstar v2]

I don’t know [how it happened], but I certainly didn’t do it on purpose. I put my arm up to try and protect possession of the ball, and Zabaleta bounced [his jaw] against it. He was unlucky to make contact. The movement by me was not in an aggressive manner. It was a defensive move to protect the ball.

[sovereignstar v2]

Read a great stat today. United's starting XI in the derby cost them 181 million pounds, while City's cost them 168. Oops.

[flere-imsaho]

Not that I'm going to excuse what Fellaini did, but his "proactive" move is the direct result of refs allowing too much in the way of people "muscling players off the ball."

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Read a great stat today. United's starting XI in the derby cost them 181 million pounds, while City's cost them 168. Oops.

Which reveals how you can use stats to deceive.

28 million of Utd's was spent TWELVE YEARS AGO on Ferdinand, another 30 or so on Rooney TEN YEARS AGO, and no other player in the team cost a top fee.

The idea that Utd are a big spending club is nonsense. Since Glazer took over 8 years ago they have bought just three top players - Berbatov, Van Persie and Mata. They have averaged just 22 million a year.

Since City were taken over 5 years ago they've now crossed the $1 billion mark on players.

The difference is that city had the money to discard the players that didn't make it. Many non-British players in particular can't play their best in the very aggressive Premier League. City have been able to bring in many players and able to discard the ones that can't make it, replace them and keep those that do. That's the way to build a top squad.

Utd's problem is precisely that, since Glazer's take over, they can't afford to do that. They've been reduced to bringing in second level players or promising young players - much like Liverpool in the 90s. Players in the 15 million bracket and less, not the top guys at 30 million plus. But when these players fail to become players Utd have had to keep them. The squad's full of them - (starting from the back) Raphael, Smalling, Jones, Evans, Buttner, Anderson, Carrick, Young, Valencia, Hernandez etc, Other players are their own youth players but also ones that haven't made it to the top - Cleverley, Welbeck etc. These are all players for mid-table sides but not players for Champions League contenders.

That's why Utd's position of 7th in league is about right.

Only once have Utd been able to to buy - test - discard -replace and that was Berbatov replaced by Van Persie. And in those two you have two thirds of the top players brought in since Glazer (and the rumours are that Ferguson had to bang Glazer's head against the wall to get agreement to buy Van Persie).

What your post ignores is how much city have spent in order to build that residual 168 million squad. There's no comparison between what city have spent on their squad and what Utd have spent on theirs.

But here's the real difference - since City's new owners took over they've spent over $1 billion on players. Since Glazer took over, Utd have paid more than $1 billion in fees and interest to fund Glazer's borrowings. Even Utd can't pay out that sort of money and still buy the best players (think of the players that billion would have bought).

That's why Utd are simultaneously the richest and poorest of top level European clubs. The richest in turnover but the poorest in debt. For fans - it's heart breaking as the inevitable consequences of that debt hit. We can only hope that Glazer recognises the threat to his $2 billion asset though I understand his performance with Tampa Bay is not encouraging

[flere-imsaho]

Aguero didn't play in the derby, right? And he was 38M (pounds).

Mac has a good analysis, imo. Again, clearly, we are now seeing proof positive the Ferguson's key talent was the ability to get his teams to consistently outperform their natural talent.

It'll be interesting to see what the Glazers will do. They've already floated the idea that without the Champions League they'll do high-priced friendlies to make up the difference. But you stay out of the limelight for a few years, and suddenly those opportunities aren't as available.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Aguero didn't play in the derby, right? And he was 38M (pounds).

If you buy 3 players of, say $30 million each, find that only one performs well enough in the EPL so keep him and so discard the other two, then your squad, measured by the squad members, is only $30 million but it in fact cost you $90 million to build. That's the sort of thing city have been doing. Their squad as a whole (rather than team for that day) may well have cost say $250 million of quality performance players but it took $1 billion to get there. The rest have moved on.

Utd were big spenders before Abramovic. To pay 30 million pounds for Rooney, for example, was something only they could do. But times have changed and buying one top player every couple of years - qhich is what Utd have been doing for the last ten years or so - does not qualify you as one of the big spenders when some top European clubs are buying three or four a year. Their squad still might compare favourably with say Spurs or Everton but not with City, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid etc.

That's where Utd are at today - the squad of a lower top ten club (and an ageing one at that). It will take five or six players to bring them back into a top four rated team.

Talk of $200 million would be about right but it remains to be seen if that number is anywhere near accurate.

A correction: yes they did pay $28 million for Fellaini but does anyone really think he's a top level player?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

If you buy 3 players of, say $30 million each, find that only one performs well enough in the EPL so keep him and so discard the other two, then your squad, measured by the squad members, is only $30 million but it in fact cost you $90 million to build. That's the sort of thing city have been doing. Their squad as a whole (rather than team for that day) may well have cost say $250 million of quality performance players but it took $1 billion to get there. The rest have moved on.

Well, and plus, City have a stated goal to have 2 world class players at each position. So there's a very clear method behind their spending.

A correction: yes they did pay $28 million for Fellaini but does anyone really think he's a top level player?

In the right system, sure. But he's probably not a player that transcends systems. But those probably cost even more than 28M these days, when you think about it.

[Marc Vaughan]

A correction: yes they did pay $28 million for Fellaini but does anyone really think he's a top level player

They definitely overpaid for Fellaini - however I do think its an very consistent and competent player (not world class in the manner of Ronaldo etc. ... but neither is he 'out of his depth' playing at a very good team); I believe Moyes bought him for his work-rate and because he's someone he believes he can rely on.

I expect Moyes is wanting to instill a high work-rate into the team in the same way that Mourinho does and Fellaini sets a good example in that regard.

[Katon]

Of course, being able to replace failed buys only works if you actually discard them once they've failed. Today's results should kill off the idea that the team starting Fernando Torres up front were somehow title favorites, though the entire attack needs more experience dealing with teams defending competently and in numbers the way Palace did.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

It is March 29, and Liverpool now control their own destiny for the title.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Well, and plus, City have a stated goal to have 2 world class players at each position. So there's a very clear method behind their spending.

That's very ambitious even for city but it does reveal the mentality behind their transfer policy. If I up my valuation of a "world class player" to say $50 million then we're talking of a squad close to $1 billion.

Interesting how that will fit into the new fair play rules

And sometimes they'll need to buy two players to find one that maintains his abilities in the EPL.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

They definitely overpaid for Fellaini - however I do think its an very consistent and competent player (not world class in the manner of Ronaldo etc. ... but neither is he 'out of his depth' playing at a very good team); I believe Moyes bought him for his work-rate and because he's someone he believes he can rely on.

I expect Moyes is wanting to instill a high work-rate into the team in the same way that Mourinho does and Fellaini sets a good example in that regard.

I'm not saying Fellaini is a bad player - I'd value him about 12-15 million pounds - but he's not the player that's going to lift Utd out of their present slump. From the work rate point of view they need a new Roy Keane to partner Mata in a new Keane/Scholes combination. Then they need a couple of wingers to match Giggs and Ronaldo

Not to mention a centre back pairing to compare with Ferdinand and Vidic at their best

It's going to be expensive

Incidentally, Marc, do you know why Ferguson let Pogba go? I only saw him twice, both in 15 minute or so subs appearances, but it was obvious even in that short period that he was precisely what Utd have been needing for some years. Even in those cameo appearances he reminded me of Patrick Vieira. Same sort of stature, posture and movement - even the same arrogant approach to opponents. He was one of three Utd midfielders in the reserve team ready for promotion - the others being Cleverley and Morrison. Morrison was said to be the most talented but out of control both on and off the field. Ferguson let him go as unmanageable. Cleverley got his opportunity. I was astonished when Pogba left.

In less than 12 months he went from being apparently unfit for Utd's powder puff midfield to the star of Serie A and of the French national team. Another reason why I don't excuse Ferguson for some of Utd's rapid deterioration

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Dola:

So as more and correct information gets out, here's some more about the UEFA Nations League

4 divisions of 12-14 teams.
The winner of each division receives a Euro 2020 spot without having to qualify.

I'm reading it slightly differently from the stuff at UEFA.com. The Division A will always be 12 teams and Division D will always be 16 teams.

There's one thing they clearly overlooked: there's a serious tanking issue as relegation to the Division D improves the odds to qualify for the following Euro tournament.

Link: http://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2079553.html

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

It is March 29, and Liverpool now control their own destiny for the title.

They certainly came up big today!

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

Edit:

just went over to the Guardian web site for last night's results and immediately came across this report on West Ham 2 Hull 1:

"The victory against 10 men came through a penalty that Hull rightly disputed and which resulted in their goalkeeper, Allan McGregor, being sent off"

Clubs can lose their Premier League status through an error amplified by this rule.

i am not arguing with you about the over-severity of the 3x penalty...i agree with you and thought your argument was excellent...but that said...did you see the McGregor sending off??? he never even came close to making an effort to play the ball, and just ran straight at Diame...he wasnt even facing the right direction to try to make a save...it looked like a hockey check. the decision to make the call came from the assistant ref that was on the end line, and he and the main official discussed it thoroughly, even allowing for about 10 seconds of play to continue before coming back to the area and pointing to the spot.

the only part of it that was disputable was that Diame had handled the ball on his run into the area, which significantly aided the creation of the chance...there could be some argument that it was a ball to hand deflection, but i think the ref just didnt have the angle to see it.

[Critch]

I saw the McGregor sending off and it was nothing like a hockey check, it was just a collision with a keeper trying to protect himself from an oncoming forward. Not doing very well either, McGregor is still in hospital and is out for the season. The FA have overturned the red card.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Critch

I saw the McGregor sending off and it was nothing like a hockey check, it was just a collision with a keeper trying to protect himself from an oncoming forward. Not doing very well either, McGregor is still in hospital and is out for the season. The FA have overturned the red card.

i didnt know that the FA overturned the suspension, but much like with the Oxlade-Chamberlin card from last weekend, where it wasnt going to be a goal, i wonder if they overturned it based on the hand ball creating the chance.

i did see that he is in bad shape...kidney damage left him in intensive care for 3 days, and a normal monitored ward for 4 more.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by saldana

i am not arguing with you about the over-severity of the 3x penalty...i agree with you and thought your argument was excellent...but that said...did you see the McGregor sending off??? he never even came close to making an effort to play the ball, and just ran straight at Diame...he wasnt even facing the right direction to try to make a save...it looked like a hockey check. the decision to make the call came from the assistant ref that was on the end line, and he and the main official discussed it thoroughly, even allowing for about 10 seconds of play to continue before coming back to the area and pointing to the spot.

the only part of it that was disputable was that Diame had handled the ball on his run into the area, which significantly aided the creation of the chance...there could be some argument that it was a ball to hand deflection, but i think the ref just didnt have the angle to see it.

No I didn't see the match.

But the problem is very much emphasised for 'keepers where a 'keeper is now afraid to dive at an attackers feet because even a genuinely mistimed attempt for the ball is often met with a sending off as well as a penalty (not to mention a subsequent ban)

I can understand those that claim the punishment should go beyond simply creating a goal scoring situation to replace the one prevented by giving a penalty which is why I suggested a penalty goal.

If a cornerback prevents a touchdown with a pass interference call are we going to reduce the offending team's offense, defense and special teams to 10 men from that point on? I don't think that would go down at all well but that is what we're doing in soccer - and often the trigger will come for something as silly as kicking the ball away. It's completely over the top and destroys the game as a spectacle.

During the Arsenal-City game the commentator mentioned that in the last 3 games there had been five red cards. What can you say except "Stop screwing up my entertainment"?

[flere-imsaho]

Manchester United kick off at home vs. Bayern Munich (who have already wrapped up the Bundesliga title) in the Champions' League momentarily. You can follow the action (via text) here: Manchester United v Bayern Munich – live! | Jacob Steinberg | Football | theguardian.com


I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict a heroic defensive performance from United here, surviving a relentless Bayern onslaught to only lose 0-1. The post-match will be full of admiration for the team and talk of Moyes turning things around until people realize that they're still 1 away goal down and now have to play Bayern at home, where they'll promptly get obliterated.

[flere-imsaho]

0-0 Halftime. My prediction looking pretty solid.

[flere-imsaho]

Well, well, well. 1-1 with a few minutes left. That's surprising....

[bhlloy]

Between Neymar vigorously belly flopping every time he felt contact and Rooney diving to get Schweinsteiger sent off, not the finest display this afternoon, which ruined two otherwise very exciting games

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Barcelona given a two-window transfer ban.

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/organi...ewsid=2313003/

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Barcelona given a two-window transfer ban.

Wow!

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Barcelona given a two-window transfer ban.

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/organi...ewsid=2313003/

i will admit that i have never seen anything like this before...has this kind of ban been imposed before?

i cant imagine what this will do to their team...can guys still transfer OUT?

[Ajaxab]

I'm wondering how serious this ban really will be when all is said and done. Is it just some parading by FIFA that they have always known will be overturned on appeal or will this ban actually have teeth?

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by saldana

i will admit that i have never seen anything like this before...has this kind of ban been imposed before?

i cant imagine what this will do to their team...can guys still transfer OUT?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfe...#Transfer_bans

However this is different as the dispute isn't between two clubs, or a club and their domestic football association, but instead is brought by FIFA itself.

I would guess that the January ban is eliminated upon appeal.

[MIJB#19]

It's about time a club gets that punishment and it was a great idea to begin with one of the big ones while they're at it. I can only applaud the decision.

[TroyF]

They will appeal it and get it delayed until the winter window and the appeal will drop it to one transfer window, which will be be eliminated. How much does anyone want to bet?

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Thread on Reddit

Apparently FIFA has told SER Radio that it is a final punishment, not able to be appealed.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Thread on Reddit

Apparently FIFA has told SER Radio that it is a final punishment, not able to be appealed.

Evidently someone forgot to tell Barca, because they have announced they are filing an appeal. My guess would be the next step would be to file a legal briefing. I would be stunned if the 2 transfer window ban stuck. I'm not saying it isn't deserved, I'd just be surprised if it stuck.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Evidently someone forgot to tell Barca, because they have announced they are filing an appeal. My guess would be the next step would be to file a legal briefing. I would be stunned if the 2 transfer window ban stuck. I'm not saying it isn't deserved, I'd just be surprised if it stuck.

I think Barca's plan is purely to delay the effect so they can get a final transfer window in before it sticks (and thus make sure they have players in place to cover as many eventualities as possible).

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

I'm not saying Fellaini is a bad player - I'd value him about 12-15 million pounds - but he's not the player that's going to lift Utd out of their present slump. From the work rate point of view they need a new Roy Keane to partner Mata in a new Keane/Scholes combination. Then they need a couple of wingers to match Giggs and Ronaldo

I agree totally - on the other hand I think every club would like a Roy Keane/Viera style player and there aren't many to go around

At the moment I feel Fellaini is trying to hard - he's got a great engine and is a fairly intelligent reader of a match (watch the number of interceptions he manages to make) ... however at the moment he's trying far to hard to be a distributer of the ball when he'd be better off keeping it simple a lot of the time and playing the ball back to someone with more time and space to make a considered pass.

This means for all the good work he does winning the ball, he frequently simply gives it straight back again - grrr

Not to mention a centre back pairing to compare with Ferdinand and Vidic at their best
It's going to be expensive

Yeah - it'll be interesting to see if Moyes is given the funds which are needed.

Incidentally, Marc, do you know why Ferguson let Pogba go? I only saw him twice, both in 15 minute or so subs appearances, but it was obvious even in that short period that he was precisely what Utd have been needing for some years. Even in those cameo appearances he reminded me of Patrick Vieira. Same sort of stature, posture and movement - even the same arrogant approach to opponents. He was one of three Utd midfielders in the reserve team ready for promotion - the others being Cleverley and Morrison. Morrison was said to be the most talented but out of control both on and off the field. Ferguson let him go as unmanageable. Cleverley got his opportunity. I was astonished when Pogba left.

Pogba left despite Ferguson wanting to keep him was how I heard it - he wanted to move into the first team faster than he was allowed to and so signed a pre-contract with Juventus despite Utd wanting to keep him.

I agree he would have been an ideal player to move up - I think he was a victim of Ferguson increasingly concentrating on short-term success rather than what would be required in the future (which is the only reason why I could see that he kept such an aging core in the team rather than increasingly replacing and rotating younger players into it).

[kingfc22]

US goal off of a corner.

Let's repeat that in Brazil please.

[PilotMan]

Pretty wide open game. I hope we don't give a fast one back here.

[Grover]

I really don't think the kits are bad. I think the red and blue should possibly be inverted.

Otherwise, we're looking pretty fantastic in them. U-S-A!

[ISiddiqui]

Nice goal for 2-0!

[kingfc22]

Bradley looks real good out there

[PilotMan]

I think its pretty obvious that the kind of soccer we are playing under Jurgen is very different that what we had under Bradley and Arena.

[SirFozzie]

All Wondo does is score goals. I'm beginning to think that he needs to be on the squad for the World Cup

[Vince, Pt. II]

This has been a fun game to watch so far. US looking quite strong. How much of this is Mexico's full squad?

[SirFozzie]

Here's the Caden Ser thing on the punishment being irrecovable

La FIFA prohíbe al Barcelona fichar hasta verano de 2015

(translated)

"So the penalty for not signing during the next two transfer periods (summer 2014 and winter 2015) is irrevocable."

They've also fined Barcelona 500,000 francs and told them they have 90 days to fix their squads (ie, drop the 10 players, I would think)

edit:Changed it from a better translation