WW LXVI: Money Money Money (Game Over!)

[Arles]

I thought the first vote was free, meaning we get 15K each day if all we do is vote and act like a miser.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay I get it.

[Chief Rum]

Checking in. I won't have much time to go over things right now, so I will have to look things over when I get home from work tomorrow. I should be home 2-3 hours before deadline, so I won't vote right now.

Oh, yeah, and I'm rich, I tellsya, rich!

See you guys tomorrow!

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Arles

I thought the first vote was free, meaning we get 15K each day if all we do is vote and act like a miser.

This is correct. Assuming you vote you get 15k profit the next day. Only votes beyond your first cost 10k.

[saldana]

checking in...i will be on during my lunch break (12 est)

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

If you only make one vote a day you'd earn $5000 for that. Other than that I'd have to look at the list of bid stuff.

I think you earn 15K. The first vote is free.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, we've got 30K and a vote costs 10K, which you'll get 15 back on. So top bid assuming everyone votes is going to be 20. Since I doubt anyone would do that at this point, I'd say top bids will be in the 10-15 range.

I thought I read 1st vote is free so really we gain $15K not just $5

Barkeep can you clarify this again please

[SnDvls]

dola - nevermind

I need to read everything first

[Barkeep49]

What a soiree! The dresses were so glam and the men looked sharp in their tuxes. Yes it was a wonderful way to show off that fabulous new watch/car/ring you’ve bought. It was a bit of a bummer that Barkeep49 ended up dead, but why let that ruin an otherwise wonderful night? You do suppose that perhaps you should find out which of your friends was responsible for this death and do something about it. Yes, you’ll make sure that the fiend who committed murder is given his just deserts: you’ll bankrupt ‘em.

But you will also want to think about purchesing one of the following services available to you today:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose 1 player to be protected from attacks. Must be used night 1.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 1.
Government Insider: May avoid bankruptcy one time. This will be used automatically and is not given to your beneficiary upon death.

Day 1 has now begun. Deadline is 10 Eastern. I will likely have only sporadic computer access until 5 or so today, as an FYI.

Remember:
1. Voting should be in the following form [b][color=blue]Vote XXX[/b][/color]
2. When bidding please place the service and bid amount in the PM title (e.g. Private Investigator $1)

I also have all N0 actions except from Swaggs.

[hoopsguy]

I believe one of our numbers has been out carousing as of late - he seems as likely as any to bear responsibility for the death of Barkeep.

Vote Lathum

[Alan T]

I didn't even get a chance to post my thoughts on the subject of voting in this game before Hoops already placed a vote.....

What I -was- going to say is that I expected the start of the day to be pretty slow vote wise, since we can not unvote this game. We can place additional votes of course, but for all intents and purposes, it costs $20k to undo your vote by placing two new votes elsewhere, which is a bit pricey for my tastes...

So I was going to ask people what types of things did we want to discuss to start today since it was unlikely that we would see alot of early votes to discuss like normal... since I am completely wrong about that, I guess Hoops has my intrigue up a bit, so I'll start with a different direction..

Hoops, since we can't unvote, what would be so obvious to you from night 0 to immediately vote Lathum without question? Or is your early vote a statement of how useless you think the day 1 conversation would end either way and in the end its just a random vote to you?

[Lathum]

I'll probably vote Swaggs since he didn't submit his night action

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'll probably vote Swaggs since he didn't submit his night action

it says he has no actions except from swaggs

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

it says he has no actions except from swaggs

That's N-zero actions, as in Night Zero.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

it says he has no actions except from swaggs

That's actually the letter n and the number zero. Saying I have all Night 0 actions except from Swaggs.

[path12]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

it says he has no actions except from swaggs

I think it's all except for Swaggs. And thanks for the clarifications on the vote costs.

[Tyrith]

Typical hoops maneuver, willing to step into the line of fire :P I can understand the vote though, as the general consensus is that lathum is a better wolf than villager, and those are the kind of people that are less painful to sacrifice on day one if need be. Not that I have any intention of following him in his vote; Swaggs is the vote if he doesn't show up.

I wonder how things are going to go early in the day since this game doesn't have unvotes. Hopefully not having to protect roles means that we'll have more night actions to discuss earlier in the game, since there is less need to hide, allowing us to make more good plays with that information.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

And thanks for the clarifications on the vote costs.

I'm actualy not clear on that at all.

[Tyrith]

And on a personal note, now that I'm playing I feel a big part of me that really missed this game

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm actualy not clear on that at all.

You get 15K a day starting tomorrow. You lose this if you don't vote.

Each vote after the first you make in a day costs 10K.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

And on a personal note, now that I'm playing I feel a big part of me that really missed this game

welcome back.....

[saldana]

i am a little bit confused by the bidding concept...

Originally Posted by the rules

There will be no roles (e.g. seer) in this game. Instead a player may win the use of a service. Each day a player may bid on 1 service. To submit a bid the player should PM me with the name of the service they’re bidding on and the amount they’re bidding in the PM title. Only the last bid on a day will be considered. Tie bids are broken by a predetermined secret non-random tie breaker. Winning amounts, but not who bid, will be published daily.

does the bolded part mean that if i bid 30K right now, but at 1 minute before the deadline, someone else bids 2 bucks, they win the bid?

[Passacaglia]

I think it means that the last bid each person submits will be considered -- all bids you made before your last won't be.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by saldana

i am a little bit confused by the bidding concept...



does the bolded part mean that if i bid 30K right now, but at 1 minute before the deadline, someone else bids 2 bucks, they win the bid?

My understanding is that it is -your- last bid of the day that is considered.

ie: if you bid 30k right now, but then you bid in later saying you only want to bid 15k, it is that bid that is accepted only.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think it means that the last bid each person submits will be considered -- all bids you made before your last won't be.

ok, so i can only bid on one service per day then?

[path12]

Originally Posted by saldana

ok, so i can only bid on one service per day then?

That's how I read it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

That's how I read it.

Ditto

[claphamsa]

that ould make sense....

[SnDvls]

Oh man...I was gonna put in a bid on everything and then at least be able to gauge what other's were bidding.

there goes that idea

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Oh man...I was gonna put in a bid on everything and then at least be able to gauge what other's were bidding.

there goes that idea

I think the amount of the winning bid will be revealed anyway.

[claphamsa]

this is wierd... no one is saying anything..... im confused as to how we will make our decisions

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think the amount of the winning bid will be revealed anyway.

Correct.

And you all pieced it together correctly. You may bid on 1 item. Until deadline you may change the item you bid on or the amount you bid and only that bid will be considered. The highest bid for a service will win.

[Alan T]

I think several of us are waiting to see if Swaggs checks in. I'll have to make a decision on my vote in the next 2 or 2 1/2 hours, but since I can't unvote, I'm just waiting to see if he shows up. If he doesn't, then I'll likely go that direction to. I'm willing to give him a pass on missing one day because stuff comes up. But if he doesn't show up today, that is two days and it is as good as anywhere else for my vote.

[path12]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

this is wierd... no one is saying anything..... im confused as to how we will make our decisions

Day 1 and no vote switching. I agree with what Alan said above, I'm waiting on Swaggs. And I don't know that anyone wants to talk about their bids until they see what happens today.

[mauchow]

Can we change what we planned to do with our money for day one?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Can we change what we planned to do with our money for day one?

I'm pretty sure you can't.

[Lathum]

I definantly want to talk about bids. I am considering the one where I learn one players alligence. But I don't know how much to bid.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Can we change what we planned to do with our money for day one?

I asked BK that yesterday, I think he said that we can change where money goes (bank, on hand, CDs) each night phase for the next day.. if i remember correctly. But you can't change it again during the day.

[hoopsguy]

On the early vote - I had promised that Lathum was going to be getting my Day 1 vote for multiple games (exact number to be determined) in a previous game. This is the first time I've done that.

It is a meta-game reason for the vote. It does not in any way represent a clearly thought out strategy for the purposes of this game. And, if you want to take the argument in this direction, it represents as carefully crafted a Day 1 vote as most day one votes.

I recognize that I won't be able to change it without incurring significant cost. But I'm also not worried about losing the seer with a random Day 1 vote either. So I think there is somewhat limited risk/reward with any kind of Day 1 action for this particular ruleset.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I definantly want to talk about bids. I am considering the one where I learn one players alligence. But I don't know how much to bid.

I think we should definitely talk about them after the fact, but I'm not sure about before the fact. I've placed a bid, but unless we can establish that it's to my benefit (as a member of the community) to do so, I prefer to keep the service and amount to myself.

[hoopsguy]

My only thoughts on bidding is that people should definitely go high if they are pursuing a service that they think will be of use to the Cutthroats.

If you are playing to accrue services and provide value to the group, I don' think you can go halfway with this strategy (at least not on a given day) and also try to accumulate money. Assuming a normal wolf game, they can coordinate on services for bidding and are unlikely to put in a middling offer for a service that provides direct and/or indirect value to their cause.

[Alan T]

I am not ready to talk about what I bid for or how much, but I think we can talk some about the bids and services in general along with what strategy we might think is in play.

In the end money rules this game, for us and for the wolves. I can see the wolves working together to bid heavy on certain things, but there are some things which I just don't see them even attempting.

Looking at the bodyguard and private investigator roles, they just come far too often, almost every day both of them are listed to bid on. I can't imagine the wolves going broke trying to bid for them. I'm also not sure that any villager is better than any other villager to "win" the services in most cases. It is a good thing that each day the person who wins the private investigator can reveal the result of their service since they aren't a permanent seer.

I think villagers can feel free to bid low on those services unless there is just some reason that a particular person really really wants it.

The Friend at the bank, I really don't see what benefit there is for me to even know what people have in the bank. I don't think it tells me who is or isn't a wolf.. all that information seems to tell is for wolves to know who to not go after in a night kill.

I think there are other services such as Government Insider, Telecommunications Mogul, Wiretapper, etc that the wolves would have interest in as well as villagers.. and I imagine those bids are going to be higher to win.

[hoopsguy]

Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose 1 player to be protected from attacks. Must be used night 1.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of 1 player. Must be used night 1.
Government Insider: May avoid bankruptcy one time. This will be used automatically and is not given to your beneficiary upon death.

List of services for today.

Here is another thought - assuming that the Cutthroats start with a significant minority (this seems likely, correct?) I think there is a good chance that they hold more starting money per person than the rest of us. Otherwise, we'll be growing our lead in money each day by virtue of having more people getting 15K for voting, which would create a significant edge over the first three days.

Without some other mechanic in play, we will almost certainly want to vote to end the game immediately on Day 4 so we are on the side with the most money. So I'm thinking that the Cutthroats must have some kind of per-guy financial edge at the outset.

Going with this line of thinking, they probably will enjoy an edge at the outset in terms of acquiring services.

[Alan T]

Even if they do have an edge at the start of acquiring services, I have to imagine they are trying to pace themselves out past day 4 like you mentioned. I think what I said before makes sense that they aren't going to be blowing money trying to keep us from services that are worthless to them (bodyguard, seer, etc) since they pop up day after day after day. I think its best for our side to bid less on those services to keep our money and not just blow it all on things that they likely aren't even going to bid for.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, at what point is wealth calculated for the end game? After Day 4 = Night 4? Day 5?

When 60% of the votes are in, are all assets factored in? Including money invested in a CD, money bid for a service (but not yet spent, since the service has not yet been acquired)?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Going with this line of thinking, they probably will enjoy an edge at the outset in terms of acquiring services.

that seems oddly fatalistic.... We cant win dont try!

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Barkeep, at what point is wealth calculated for the end game? After Day 4 = Night 4? Day 5?

When 60% of the votes are in, are all assets factored in? Including money invested in a CD, money bid for a service (but not yet spent, since the service has not yet been acquired)?

When 60% of the vote is in all money on hand or in the Bank will be totaled. The side with the most money will win.

[SnDvls]

so if we start with more players and look at doing small minimum bids even if we don't get services we can still win this game on day 4 just by the fact that we out number the wolves.....unless they started with a heck of a lot more money than we did, then this goes right out the window.

[Alan T]

Well, I need to take off from work. I should be back by 9pm or so, but just in case, I need to get a vote in now. For reasons stated earlier.

Vote Swaggs

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

that seems oddly fatalistic.... We cant win dont try!

Not really fatalistic - just trying to work through in my own head what is the "value" play in terms of competing for services both today and in future days.

If you think I'm being fatalistic there then I'm really being negative about the Cutthroat chances to win a money race within four days based on the other part of my posts.