The Higher Education Thread

[cuervo72]

Ireland!

Maryland is a little weird in that it has the city of Baltimore, some rural places, but then also very well-off places like Howard Co. and Montgomery Co. So maybe not the best ranking overall, but very competitive at the top. MD for instance has one of the highest projected cutoffs for NM Semifinalists.

Kids started yesterday. First year in HS for my daughter, so nothing too involved yet for her (honors but no AP). Son has year-long AP for Chem and Calc (AB then BC), AP Enviro second half of the year. Same teacher as last year for math, and she has a pretty nice track record of AP scores.

[cuervo72]

So, I just had my first big "oh, sh!t!" moment within the last week. Son got his financial award notification from Purdue - which we anticipated would be an affordable option - and it was basically:

Costs: ~48k
EFC: ~43k
Loan: 5k

And that's it. Now, we do ok salary-wise (now that my wife is basically working full-time, which she didn't for many years). That doesn't mean we have much of anything stocked away (especially with 2.5 mos. of recent unemployment) or have it in the budget to take on a 40k+ yearly expenditure. But the FAFSA calculations are what they are and I understand that.

The fact that NO merit aid was offered was a bit of a shock.

So Purdue, which was 1a, may need to slip a little, barring a ton of little scholarships (or a large Grandma & Grandpa scholarship). Son was only waitlisted for the honors college as well. The 1b - good ol' U. of Maryland - will be cheaper just on the basis of being in-state, plus he is accepted to the honors college. It's a great option, but there's a bit of a disappointment in that he's done everything that could be asked of him academically, and it still may not matter (such is life, I guess).

We still have to wait for decisions from Michigan, Ga. Tech, and Virginia Tech as well as aid from Texas A&M, but it'll probably take something extraordinary for any of those to jump into the lead, which I'm not expecting after Purdue.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So, I just had my first big "oh, sh!t!" moment within the last week. Son got his financial award notification from Purdue - which we anticipated would be an affordable option - and it was basically:

Costs: ~48k
EFC: ~43k
Loan: 5k

And that's it. Now, we do ok salary-wise (now that my wife is basically working full-time, which she didn't for many years). That doesn't mean we have much of anything stocked away (especially with 2.5 mos. of recent unemployment) or have it in the budget to take on a 40k+ yearly expenditure. But the FAFSA calculations are what they are and I understand that.

The fact that NO merit aid was offered was a bit of a shock.

So Purdue, which was 1a, may need to slip a little, barring a ton of little scholarships (or a large Grandma & Grandpa scholarship). Son was only waitlisted for the honors college as well. The 1b - good ol' U. of Maryland - will be cheaper just on the basis of being in-state, plus he is accepted to the honors college. It's a great option, but there's a bit of a disappointment in that he's done everything that could be asked of him academically, and it still may not matter (such is life, I guess).

We still have to wait for decisions from Michigan, Ga. Tech, and Virginia Tech as well as aid from Texas A&M, but it'll probably take something extraordinary for any of those to jump into the lead, which I'm not expecting after Purdue.

OH SHIT.

We're in a similar situation. My sophomore is looking at Purdue too. I have nothing put aside for it. I can't believe they expect $3500 a month from you and call it good. ouch.

[Neuqua]

My brother spent two years at Purdue until ultimately my parents got too stressed out and told them they couldn't do it anymore. He had to transfer out to an in-state school half way through.

[INDalltheway]

I graduated from Purdue, but came from in-state. If they are looking at engineering or anything aeronautical it's a great option and it would pay for itself over time. Mitch Daniels has been pretty progressive as a President of the University and implemented some interesting programs. Check this out as an option possibly. Admittedly don't know too much about it, but it could be something of interest.

[Drake]

...but think of all the in-state Indiana kids you won't be subsidizing if you don't send your kid to Purdue? Hoosiers need education, too, ya skinflint.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

We still have to wait for decisions from Michigan, Ga. Tech, and Virginia Tech as well as aid from Texas A&M, but it'll probably take something extraordinary for any of those to jump into the lead, which I'm not expecting after Purdue.

While it certainly isn't reason for optimism, fwiw, we found that one school's initial offer was not neccessarily predictive of the next school's offer. The fact that you're talking about 4 different states with those makes it more likely that the offers will vary.

So the odds ain't great but, well, they aren't entirely impossible either.

edit to add: I, uh, might not get too optimistic about A&M though. Their students are 94.8% Texans, though I see where roughly half the out-of-state students do get a waiver of the added tuition (found that in an article that talked about them raising the price $200/credit hour for out-of-state students)

[Izulde]

Par for the course, really. Colleges are always overly optimistic with their EFC settings, because they want to pay as little as possible - especially to out of state students.

But like Jon said, you never know what other schools are going to come through with. There's a lot of moving pieces WRT financial aid.

[HerRealName]

My daughter and I just got back from a trip to Texas Tech and TT went from last on her list to the top. Their Honors College made her feel really comfortable and I think that was the difference. They offer in state tuition for any out of state student that receives at least $1K in school aid. I don't remember if A&M offers the same but it is a possibility.

Have you been to A&M yet? Our A&M visit was not a good one. It was easily the worst visit of the 7 visits we've taken over the last 2 years so I'm curious of your impression.

[cuervo72]

We've not visited A&M - only Purdue and Maryland. A&M was more a case where they were in the top 10 for his major (yes, Aerospace/Aeronautical Engineering), they might be a wildcard tuition-wise, and he knows someone there (his predecessor as drum major). GT and VT were "just in case" to round out options. He had considered MIT but soured on them, he never really gave Stanford thought, ruled out Caltech somewhat quickly. For whatever reason never really considered Illinois or Texas. Same with Princeton.

We WERE planning to go back to Purdue and maybe zip up to Michigan, but now I'm not as sure.

Worst comes to worst, he stays at UMD. Which isn't bad at all. Still top ten, in-state, and he'd know people. Oh, and no band tryouts!

(And thanks for that link, IND - that might be an interesting option to consider.)

[cuervo72]

Dola- actually, I need to look at A&M again. Son is a National Merit Finalist, which brings some money, and might also trigger a non-resident tuition waiver.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Dola- actually, I need to look at A&M again. Son is a National Merit Finalizt, which brings some money, and might also trigger a non-resident tuition waiver.

I think you'll have a near 100% chance for a waiver then. It only takes $4K per year of University scholarships to get the out state waiver. I think that's something like top 25% of the graduating class and 1200+ on the SAT. I'm sure he's well above those levels.

Just an example, my son graduated from High School last year. His SAT was high (1420 maybe?) but his class rank was only like top 24%. A&M offered him $4 or $5K per year. Houston offered the same exact amount and he ended up at Houston instead.

[tarcone]

A great option for an engineering major is Missouri S and T. It is one of the best engineering schools. It is also a public school.

[cuervo72]

Man, this is such a weird science. Just got home and had my son tell me that he got an e-mail from Maryland clarifying that while he was admitted to the Honors College, he was not admitted directly to the Clark Engineering School, but would have to start in Letters and Sciences and transfer later.

Now, transferring to Clark is apparently no big deal - just maintain a 3.0 the first semester (year?). But it's just bizarre. His SAT scores were 790M, 780V (one shot), he scored 800 on the Math II/Chemistry subject tests, had 5s in AP Calc BC, AP Chem, AP World. (He's taking Physics at the CC now as there weren't enough students for it at the HS; if he gets a 4 or 5 on the AP he'll essentially be able to skip much of the Freshman year requirements.) He's had all A's outside of a B in Geometry, which he took online as an 8th grader.

He's unfazed by it, but I mean, what the hell?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Man, this is such a weird science. Just got home and had my son tell me that he got an e-mail from Maryland clarifying that while he was admitted to the Honors College, he was not admitted directly to the Clark Engineering School, but would have to start in Letters and Sciences and transfer later.

Now, transferring to Clark is apparently no big deal - just maintain a 3.0 the first semester (year?). But it's just bizarre. His SAT scores were 790M, 780V (one shot), he scored 800 on the Math II/Chemistry subject tests, had 5s in AP Calc BC, AP Chem, AP World. (He's taking Physics at the CC now as there weren't enough students for it at the HS; if he gets a 4 or 5 on the AP he'll essentially be able to skip much of the Freshman year requirements.) He's had all A's outside of a B in Geometry, which he took online as an 8th grader.

He's unfazed by it, but I mean, what the hell?

This even happened often when I worked admissions at a SUNY school. They load up first-years with all of their gen eds and core major requirements, rather than have them show up on campus "in the major" because kids change their majors so much and it's an administrative hassle.

Plus for undergrads, unless they're majoring in nursing or something, it doesn't really matter what they're majoring in the first two years, unless they are wanting to take advantage of some kind of dual enrollment thing, but that doesn't sound like the case here.

I don't know the specifics of UM, but it's not that unusual in a general higher ed sense.

[cuervo72]

Aerospace Curriculum | Aerospace Engineering

FIRST YEAR
Calculus I*
Chemistry*
Introduction to Engineering
Aerospace Seminar I
Calculus II*
Physics I*
Mechanics I
Aerospace Computing
*Commonly satisfied via AP credits

Or alternatively: https://eng.umd.edu/sites/clark.umd....017-2018-1.pdf

Bolded items are the ones he'd need to make sure to take care of. It seems fairly rigid (I know BME at Hopkins was too). My worry would be getting into something like ENES 100 - Intro to Eng Design, which I assume is a prereq for ENES102, which would be a prereq for ENES220...

[JPhillips]

We do that sort of thing with our nursing program. Students have prescribed science classes as freshmen, but they aren't officially nursing students until their sophomore year.

[tarcone]

Yeah. My daughter is planning on nursing school. She has to be admitted after her 1st year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Man, this is such a weird science. Just got home and had my son tell me that he got an e-mail from Maryland clarifying that while he was admitted to the Honors College, he was not admitted directly to the Clark Engineering School, but would have to start in Letters and Sciences and transfer later.

Now, transferring to Clark is apparently no big deal - just maintain a 3.0 the first semester (year?). But it's just bizarre. His SAT scores were 790M, 780V (one shot), he scored 800 on the Math II/Chemistry subject tests, had 5s in AP Calc BC, AP Chem, AP World. (He's taking Physics at the CC now as there weren't enough students for it at the HS; if he gets a 4 or 5 on the AP he'll essentially be able to skip much of the Freshman year requirements.) He's had all A's outside of a B in Geometry, which he took online as an 8th grader.

He's unfazed by it, but I mean, what the hell?

I was sharing some of this with my own son tonight (I really didn't figure you'd mind, he knows this place pretty well by proxy) and he asked a question immediately after I finished ... I'm gonna throw the question out*:
"but how were his extracurriculars?"

I just thought it was interesting that, after going through the process himself not long ago, he's still a big believer in the "checkboxes" needing to be filled in for max results on applications.

So -- since I imagine these threads do get necromanced from people at earlier stages in the process -- I'm throwing that question in here just to see how it might / might not fit.


*apologies if this has been discussed in detail & I should know the answer already

[cuervo72]

He's been pretty active EC-wise, though there's not one thing that really stands out.

Marching Band: So-Sr (Drum major Sr year)
Jazz Band/Orchestra: Fr-Sr
Hood College Jazz Ensemble: Jr-Sr
FFA: Fr-Jr (was 1st place in MD for individual dairy judging as So, 2nd as Jr, 1st place team as Jr)
Cross Country: Jr-Sr (though he was not good - typically finished in the last few kids if not last - this showed some perseverance)
Mock Trial: Jr
Academic Team (quiz bowl): So-Sr
Student Gov't Association: Fr(?)-Sr
National Honor Society
Mu Alpha Theta
tutoring, etc

He's busy. During the Fall for instance, his schedule would be school, marching band after school, then Physics class at the CC until 7, then jazz band at Hood until 9PM.

[cuervo72]

re: Maryland. My half-baked theory is that ok, Aerospace is a limited and sought-after major. So offer Honors so he keeps them on the radar, but give the engineering slot to someone who might not come if they don't get into the engineering school (i.e. OOS student). If he's serious about Maryland and not just using them as a safety (some variant of Tufts Syndrome), no problem switching later.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

He's been pretty active EC-wise, though there's not one thing that really stands out.

{reads list}

Arts? check
Athletics? check
Student govt / civics? check

The only possible checkbox I don't see is one you might label "service" (think Habitat or similar) but definitely no glaring lack of ec stuff there.

I mostly thought it was worth asking since it got such an immediate reaction from my own student, who is pretty conscious of the trends he sees with admission, the backstories he pieces together for how/why people did or didn't get into a certain place, etc etc.

His other take, fwiw obviously, on your son's list is that it was weighted heavily toward tougher-to-crack schools for out of state students.
I looked up most of them earlier today, I think the highest o-o-s percentage of his candidates you mentioned was 36%, with a low of 4%. No doubt a lot of that is a function of his major, so that stuff just has to fall however it falls, you can't control that.

Just thinking, for other folks, that's definitely something to consider when compiling a list of targets, making sure that some higher-probability option isn't overlooked by virtue of being ranked 11th in a field instead of 10th or 16th instead of 15th or whatever.

[cuervo72]

Yeah, when putting together his list I was initially disappointed that there were no Ivies, no MIT/Caltech/Stanford, etc. I'm admittedly guilty of being a bit of a name snob. The major just happens to be strong at huge public schools (outside of the three mentioned which were off his list for other reasons). I will completely get if he isn't accepted to Michigan - top 20, huge state school. It's like UNC but even worse, really. In retrospect, he might have expanded a bit to include a couple other schools. Colorado might have been a good fit (he likes the cold, and pics of the campus look beautiful).

And other than that, he at least is 3-for-3 getting in with Purdue/MD/A&M. But the schools certainly don't seem to be throwing themselves at him, then I guess they don't really need to.

(As for service - yeah, that could have been better. He's done a few things through school - giving tours of the old HS to alumni before it was demolished, shopping for Christmas gifts for families in need, but nothing church-related or "big" like Habitat.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

(As for service - yeah, that could have been better. He's done a few things through school - giving tours of the old HS to alumni before it was demolished, shopping for Christmas gifts for families in need, but nothing church-related or "big" like Habitat.)

Well, that raises a point: when putting together those lists for applications or answering questions, be sure to be thorough in thinking about it.

And -- especially if you're low on checkboxes filled -- then see how to work stuff in that might not be an obvious one. I used Habitat as the example cause it's an immediate recognition for "what is that", but more local initiatives are just as valid, we just have to remember to include them when/where needed.

[GoldenCrest Games]

Originally Posted by tarcone

A great option for an engineering major is Missouri S and T. It is one of the best engineering schools. It is also a public school.

Not that it was on your list, but Minnesota is alleged to have a great engineering program.

It doesn't.

If you end up getting down to Minnesota on your list, just pass it by.

[GoldenCrest Games]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Dola- actually, I need to look at A&M again. Son is a National Merit Finalist, which brings some money, and might also trigger a non-resident tuition waiver.

I've hired a few aerospace and mechanical engineers from A&M. They've all impressed me with their ability to apply what they learned to the real world. You don't see that coming from every engineering school.

[molson]

Things have definitely gotten more competitive since I went through this process....

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Things have definitely gotten more competitive since I went through this process....

It's pretty much unrecognizable vs the 1980s, that part I'm sure of.

[GrantDawg]

I love threads that absolutely scares the willies out of me. This is what I am so afraid of. My son getting accepted everywhere, but no one offering anywhere near the scholarship money he would need. Fortunately, he is not stuck on a major right now (it won't be engineering, though I wish it were). He had his final interview for Governor's honors last weekend, and getting into that will open a lot of doors.

I will say this, Cuervo. We went to a college fair not to long ago, and had several colleges tell us that National Merit Finalist would get half/full tuition scholarships. Some were over-priced private schools, but not all. UAB was one that said full, and that is a state school.

[cuervo72]

NMF is hit or miss it seems. A&M is offering $3,000 just for being a semifinalist, and would have given another $7k if he had put them down as his #1 choice (though other sources seemed dodgier on this, as it said finalists are "eligible" for the additional $7k). Those combined would have given him a waiver to get in-state tuition.

But...it would have been at A&M. They were basically #6 on the applications list, there to round out things just in case every other app went sideways for whatever reason. Outside of the blip with the engineering school, Maryland should be just fine. Already in-state, bunch of other positives. So he switched his #1 from Purdue to Maryland (I think Purdue would have only given $500 for NMF). Maryland can give up to $2,500, but I don't think that's guaranteed. Will have to find out later on that, as I don't think it's in the initial package -- which apparently he can access, but hasn't bothered to do yet (available online last night, he decided playing Solaris was more interesting).

He* hasn't ruled Purdue out, but I think Maryland is in the lead right now. Of course we have three more we haven't heard anything from, but I can't imagine two of them (Michigan, GT) would offer much of anything assuming he's even accepted. No clue on VT.



* Well, I should say "we." My wife is basically saying that we'll do what it takes to send him where he wants to be, we'll take on loans or whatever. I don't know what HIS tolerance for taking on loans is though.

[cuervo72]

So we finally saw a little bit of the "wait and see if the offers are sweetened" phenomena. VT had offered a $5k/yr scholarship previously, and replaced it with a $7k/yr one.

That still probably isn't enough to top the $5k/yr scholarship Maryland has offered -- not with in-state tuition. So really he should turn down their offer as well as A&M's as I don't think they're still in the running (Michigan turned him down, GT waitlisted).

He still can't decide between UMD and Purdue though. Visited there again, which only reinforced his positive impressions. He shadowed an honors student at UMD and liked it ok, but not nearly as much as Purdue. But it is a heck of a lot cheaper and he knows others who've committed there.

(It really just sucks that the one school where he really wants to go is the one which offered absolutely no money. :| )

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

and he knows others who've committed there.

Everybody's mileage will vary on this point of course but, fwiw ... I think we figured out that there were something like 8 (or 9 or 11 or something) kids at Ole Miss who went to the same HS that Will attended*.

The number of those he's interacted (beyond bumping into each other heading different directions to class) with by the middle of his first semester?
Zero.

From my understanding, that's pretty typical if you're at middle/large schools. Unless you're chasing the same degree or end up in the same frat/srat, the interaction can become pretty non-existent pretty quickly.




*(avg HS senior class is only in the 80-100 range, so that many in the same college isn't insubstantial)

[cuervo72]

I actually have told him that, though I think there may be a chance he could be in the same honors dorm (or in one case possibly room with a friend of his) so it's still something that's part of his thought process.

(Though it's entirely possible he's trying to come up with more positives to talk himself into the school which makes the most financial sense.)

[tarcone]

The whole limiting loans is really a cramp on the middle class.
My daughter is eligible for $5500. Thats it, no grants. So the year wlll cost $20k. Where does that much money come from? She is an average student. So she isnt getting much scholarship money. We are dead smack in the middle class with a debt problem.

This is going to be a struggle.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Everybody's mileage will vary on this point of course but, fwiw ... I think we figured out that there were something like 8 (or 9 or 11 or something) kids at Ole Miss who went to the same HS that Will attended*.

The number of those he's interacted (beyond bumping into each other heading different directions to class) with by the middle of his first semester?
Zero.

From my understanding, that's pretty typical if you're at middle/large schools. Unless you're chasing the same degree or end up in the same frat/srat, the interaction can become pretty non-existent pretty quickly.




*(avg HS senior class is only in the 80-100 range, so that many in the same college isn't insubstantial)

There were fourteen kids from my High School (class size of 300) who went to UCSB with me. One of them was a close friend. Another whom I actually went to K-12 with was randomly put on the same floor of my dormitory as I was.

I hung out with exactly zero of them throughout my college years.

[jct32]

Boy, I'm not looking forward to all of this with my daughter. She is almost 1 so I got awhile but wow. I just started my first semester of college, after 8 years in the military, and my tuition and fees per semester is 20k! They gave me a 10k scholarship and the GI Bill pays for the rest but I couldn't imagine what some of y'all are going through without a full scholarship like I got. I better start putting money into a college savings plan.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by tarcone

The whole limiting loans is really a cramp on the middle class.
My daughter is eligible for $5500. Thats it, no grants. So the year wlll cost $20k. Where does that much money come from? She is an average student. So she isnt getting much scholarship money. We are dead smack in the middle class with a debt problem.

This is going to be a struggle.

We are in the same boat. Without some big scholarships, my son is not going to be able to go to a major university. I really do want him to go to the school he wants (if he will ever pick a school he wants. He still has plenty of time, but he is not very decisive.) But in the end, he might just have to pick a small mid range school that is less expensive and offers more scholarships.
I wish he had wanted to take more opportunities that were available to him. He could have gone to what is called the Career academy here, but he really likes his school. The weird part of that is his school does not have a good rep, and most kids hate being there. The school definitely holds him back.
He could dual enroll IF the system didn't require him to be able to drive. You have to go to your normal school, and then drive to the college for classes and drive back at random times in the day. He will not be 16 till his senior year.
We did have another offer from a small college in the middle part of the state. It would allow him to dual enroll, but basically he would be a college freshman on campus then walk at his high school in two years, with two years of college behind him. They haven't talked numbers on aid, but the recruit is constantly bugging my wife tell her that would do just about anything to get him there. But, being two+ hours away from the house, my wife is not letting her baby go yet.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by jct32

Boy, I'm not looking forward to all of this with my daughter. She is almost 1 so I got awhile but wow. I just started my first semester of college, after 8 years in the military, and my tuition and fees per semester is 20k! They gave me a 10k scholarship and the GI Bill pays for the rest but I couldn't imagine what some of y'all are going through without a full scholarship like I got. I better start putting money into a college savings plan.

I'm already worried about this with a 15 month old so glad to see you have me beat.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

We are in the same boat. Without some big scholarships, my son is not going to be able to go to a major university.

Did you move?
Or is UGA not "a major university"?

(I'm thinking HOPE here, basically ... so I'm a little confused)

[Buccaneer]

I guess I am still not fully understanding the financial aid qualification thing. My son, likewise, got $5500 in grants and a standard school scholarship and that left about $20k per year to cover everything else. I'm middle class too and easily qualified for Parent PLUS loan, which got me to avoid the whole private student loan business which I would not touch. Maybe it's not wanting to take on that amount of debt?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I guess I am still not fully understanding the financial aid qualification thing. My son, likewise, got $5500 in grants and a standard school scholarship and that left about $20k per year to cover everything else. I'm middle class too and easily qualified for Parent PLUS loan, which got me to avoid the whole private student loan business which I would not touch. Maybe it's not wanting to take on that amount of debt?

I know very little about it either, and I know people who live in different parts of the country have different perspectives on salaries and affordability. But I feel like you can be very solidly upper middle class and still have a whole hell of a lot of difficulty in cutting a $30K check (or more) over a 4 year stretch.

I've been putting away in a 529 plan what I think is a good amount of money since my daughter was born (about 20% of my after tax annual bonus, plus a monthly contribution which I hope to increase at least 5% a year) but who the hell knows if that will be enough way down the road? And that's just for one kid! It's highly unlikely I'll be able to double up on all that for baby #2.

I guess I'd end up taking out a parent loan like you mentioned if my kids can't qualify for their own because of our income, as that is better than nothing. But I'd like my kids to have some skin in the game so they are incentivized to make good choices. Maybe I'll just lie to them and tell them the loans we're taking out are actually in their name.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Logan

I know very little about it either, and I know people who live in different parts of the country have different perspectives on salaries and affordability. But I feel like you can be very solidly upper middle class and still have a whole hell of a lot of difficulty in cutting a $30K check (or more) over a 4 year stretch.

I've been putting away in a 529 plan what I think is a good amount of money since my daughter was born (about 20% of my after tax annual bonus, plus a monthly contribution which I hope to increase at least 5% a year) but who the hell knows if that will be enough way down the road? And that's just for one kid! It's highly unlikely I'll be able to double up on all that for baby #2.

I guess I'd end up taking out a parent loan like you mentioned if my kids can't qualify for their own because of our income, as that is better than nothing. But I'd like my kids to have some skin in the game so they are incentivized to make good choices. Maybe I'll just lie to them and tell them the loans we're taking out are actually in their name.

Those are good points. If a child is motivated and picked a good, marketable major, then I have no problems in saying one of the best gifts you can give the child is not for the child to be burdened by large college debt when they graduate. My son will, at this rate, have about $25k total (assuming no additional scholarships) but he is already well on his way in his career and I think he will be able to handle that.

Addendum: I, on the other hand, is taking on a large debt just when I retire. Not sure how I feel about that but I had worked on eliminating most other debts and thinking that a HELOC can absorb that. I'm more flexible in managing debt than my son will be, I believe.

[molson]

Where does all this tuition money go? I always figured the price was just going to go up and up as long as the government and private loans were willing to front more and more of the cost (and guarantee payment), but, where is this money actually going, and is running a school so much more expensive than it was such a few decades ago?

My 10-second Google research on this question made me a little angry on behalf of all parents dealing with this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanl.../#6be9eb3773ca

"There's a lot of strange fluff in the expense column, including $11.8 million paid to outside consultants, $8.0 in travel expenses, $4.2 million to top officials, and $25 million in undisclosed "other expenses." Total personnel expenses, outside of the top officials, were $86 million.

...

A study found that the California State University system had 11,614 full-time faculty in 1973, and 12,019 in 2008. During that same time period, administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183, ending up with more administrators than faculty. I would guess that things were not really all that lean in 1973 either. It has only gotten worse since 2008. An anonymous college professor -- he calls himself "Professor Doom" -- has been chronicling his own experience working in this environment of bureaucratic horror."

It's also interesting how universities count scholarship money and grants as "expenses". I guess it is in a sense, but, they're just strategically accepting less money for certain students, that doesn't mean that the initial $60k tuition price is an appropriate and required default point to keep the lights on and that anything less than that is an "expense" that has to be recovered elsewhere.

[JPhillips]

I learned today that my college spends 36% of payroll on faculty, 20% on non-exempt staff(those requiring overtime), and 44% on administrators and other supervisors. Of the overall budget, 33% is spent on instruction.

[PilotMan]

Any idea what percent is spent on sports? Or if sports coaches are considered admin?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Any idea what percent is spent on sports? Or if sports coaches are considered admin?

Varies by state, university, and in some cases (IIRC) even by sport.

Keep in mind that athletic department revenues (between TV rights, tickets, merch sales & licensing, and donations) in some programs (not most, but some) not only fund the athletic department in full but sometimes provide a significant amount of scholarship money for non-athletes as well.

Here's a 2016 local article that goes into detail -- and notes that as of 2010 the majority of universities did fund some athletic costs out of the general fund (or similar). Here? The Athletic Association not only covers all the athletic scholarships but also endows faculty positions, pays stipends to undergrad researchers unaffiliated with athletics, contributes around $2m a year in general scholarship money, pays all program expenses for all sports ... and still runs at a significant (8 figure annually) surplus.

I may hate them mangy mutts, but give the devils their due, they know how to handle their dollars.

edit to add: the situation is similar at a number of SEC schools, depending upon how they've chosen to structure things. Saban doesn't cost Alabama taxpayers a dime as I understand it, UT always makes sizable donations to the general scholarship fund, etc etc.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Any idea what percent is spent on sports? Or if sports coaches are considered admin?

Coaches fall under exempt employees, so they're under admin/supervisors.

[tarcone]

I havent looked into the Parent Plus loan. We do qualify for that. But I hate taking out another loan.

But the alternative may kill us financially. I need to investigate the parent plus. Is deferred until she graduates?

For those of you that have young ones, I suggest starting a 529 plan now. It is tax free when using it for school and the amount you pay in every year is tax deductible. It is a win-win.

[dunkem]

The key to most institution's gift aid is applying early. On October 1st, complete your FAFSA so you're at the front of the line. If you have a crazy high EFC, you may not be eligible for any need based aid (subsidized loans), Pell grant, or the gift aid. Usually your eligibility for the need based aid is something like cost of attendance minus EFC minus outside resources (scholarships, waivers, etc).

There's an annual limit for subsidized/unsubsidized loans under the dependent student's responsibility.. usually $5500 as a freshman. The only option is usually the Parent PLUS loan for higher cost schools unless they have a lot of institutional funding in the way of state loans or grants.

You can request to defer your Parent PLUS loan with the servicer while your child is in school, however, the interest will still accrue. There is also an origination fee of about 4.272% which comes off the gross amount you're re requesting so the NET amount will be after those fees.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Those are good points. If a child is motivated and picked a good, marketable major, then I have no problems in saying one of the best gifts you can give the child is not for the child to be burdened by large college debt when they graduate. My son will, at this rate, have about $25k total (assuming no additional scholarships) but he is already well on his way in his career and I think he will be able to handle that.

Yeah I see nothing wrong with a kid owing a modest amount of money like that, whether you as parents can actually afford to cover it or not. My dream is to be able to pay the full freight for our kids, but have them think we/they are taking out a loan for a portion of it, or have them actually take out the loan which we will then pay for. But either way, tell them they need to pay $200/month (or whatever is decent at the time, not a prohibitive amount) and collect that money from them until it's paid off...while actually saving/investing that money and handing them a nice check when they are ready for the next stage of their lives.

Originally Posted by tarcone

For those of you that have young ones, I suggest starting a 529 plan now. It is tax free when using it for school and the amount you pay in every year is tax deductible. It is a win-win.

Not in all states. Fuckers.