Grammar Police - Graduate School

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Pyser

so whats the difference between "presume" and "assume"?

The saying wouldn't make sense if you said "When you presume, you make a pres out of u and me."

[Breeze]

If you have problems with grammar usage, style, techniques, and/or formats

Get:

The Gregg Reference Manual

and use it. I write often and still use it on occassion.

I have to confess here that I don't monitor my spelling, grammar, or punctuation in these posts.

[QuikSand]

The past tense of "sneak" is sneaked, period. There is no proper word snuck, though it too is showing up in some dictionaries due to wanton loose usage.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

The past tense of "sneak" is sneaked, period. There is no proper word snuck, though it too is showing up in some dictionaries due to wanton loose usage.

I'm in favor of wanton loose usage.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

The past tense of "sneak" is sneaked, period. There is no proper word snuck, though it too is showing up in some dictionaries due to wanton loose usage.

I know sneaked is proper, but it's one of those words that just doesn't sound right.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

The past tense of "sneak" is sneaked, period. There is no proper word snuck, though it too is showing up in some dictionaries due to wanton loose usage.

:o

Yes, I sneaked "snuck" in instead of "sneaked." I suck...er, seaked.

[dacman]

Apparently on the internet, it's forbidden to use the word role. Replace with roll.

When speaking about the part a person plays on a sports team, or as a part of an artistic production the word is role. R-O-L-E.

[cuervo72]

That's funny, because I'd swear that I've seen people described as being "on a role" on the internet...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

The past tense of "sneak" is sneaked, period. There is no proper word snuck, though it too is showing up in some dictionaries due to wanton loose usage.

Originally Posted by dictionary.com

Usage Note: Snuck is an Americanism first introduced in the 19th century as a nonstandard regional variant of sneaked. Widespread use of snuck has become more common with every generation. It is now used by educated speakers in all regions. Formal written English is more conservative than other varieties, of course, and here snuck still meets with much resistance. Many writers and editors have a lingering unease about the form, particularly if they recall its nonstandard origins. And 67 percent of the Usage Panel disapproved of snuck in our 1988 survey. Nevertheless, an examination of recent sources shows that snuck is sneaking up on sneaked. Snuck was almost 20 percent more common in newspaper articles published in 1995 than it was in 1985. Snuck also appears in the work of many respected columnists and authors: “He ran up huge hotel bills and then snuck out without paying” (George Stade). “He had snuck away from camp with a cabinmate” (Anne Tyler). “I ducked down behind the paperbacks and snuck out” (Garrison Keillor).

SI

[QuikSand]

If that was intended to refute my description, I think it fails.

In this (rare) case, it seems I was the less long-winded of the two variants, each saying basically the same thing.

[sterlingice]

No, I figured it backed up what you were saying. I had never heard that before, personally.

SI

[WSUCougar]

Bunch of feakers is what you all are!

[LoneStarGirl]

I noticed this in the superbowl thread earlier... Isn't it A LOT, and not ALLOT, or ALOT?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I noticed this in the superbowl thread earlier... Isn't it A LOT, and not ALLOT, or ALOT?

Yes, it is.

[Dutch]

Strangely enough, I think I would use both words.

"The cat sneaked past the owner into the kitchen."
"Last week we snuck out of the house to go to a party."

[QuikSand]

Another common one:

Uninterested means you don't find the subject worthy of your attention. In this case, you are bored by watching a game, because it's a sport you don't like, it's a blowout or being played badly, or something of that sort.

Disinterested means you are impartial, or you don't have a stake in the outcome... you can be watching a game intently, but be disinterested if you don't care who wins (you don't have money on it, you don't really root for either team, etc.).

[Barkeep49]

Disinterested vs uninterested is an important concept for anyone who wants to understand what the Founders were aiming for in politicians.

[cuervo72]

Dammit.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I know sneaked is proper, but it's one of those words that just doesn't sound right.

This is how I feel about pled. It used to be that "So and So pled guilty to such and such a charge. Now it is "So and so pleaded guilty..." I can't take it.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

This is how I feel about pled. It used to be that "So and So pled guilty to such and such a charge. Now it is "So and so pleaded guilty..." I can't take it.

Yeah, I see "pleaded" in the NYTimes all the time--it just doesn't feel as correct as "pled", but I guess I'm wrong.

[Lorena]

From an email I received:

"Some of our contracts won't have signatures on Ex 1 due to its only required to have signature on signature page."

My grammar isn't perfect by any means, but this just drove me NUTZ!!

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by Pyser

so whats the difference between "presume" and "assume"?

since the thread is bumped, i bump my question.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Pyser

since the thread is bumped, i bump my question.

I think 'to assume' is to conclude based on little or nothing, and 'to presume' is to conclude based on evidence.

Or in other words assume is a wild leap of faith, and presume is an educated guess. That's my take on it anyhoo.

Edit: as this is a grammar thread, I may as well match my tenses

[Raven Hawk]

From Dictionary.com

To presume is to suppose that something is reasonable or possible in the absence of proof to the contrary

To assume is to accept something as existing or being true without proof or on inconclusive grounds

The only difference that I see is that assuming takes into account that there might also be inconclusive evidence, rather than just being void of evidence.

However, they are listed as synonyms.

[Brillig]

Today's entry in the "I'd like to beat you with a thesaurus" competition.

San Francisco to Bid for 2016 Olympics

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NG8VIU1JO3.DTL

After New York's crushing defeat in the bid for the 2012 Games that went to London, the USOC will not enter into another competition unless it believes it can win. Toward that end, a U.S. candidate city would have to have international cache and recognition.

If you're going to use a word like cachet, please, for the love of God, use it correctly and don't get it mixed up with a completely different word.

[Ksyrup]

Proper word choice is not that writer's fort.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Proper word choice is not that writer's fort.

Pronounced fort, but isn't it still spelled forte?

[Ksyrup]

Is there a smilie for the "woosh, over your head" action?

It's spelled forte`, and pronounced for-TAY. It was my attempt at a joke at the expense of the cache/cachet writer.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's spelled forte`, and pronounced for-TAY.

Actually, "fort" is proper as well, although everyone says for-tay.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's spelled forte`, and pronounced for-TAY.

As discussed in page two of this very thread...

Actually, it's properly pronounced FORT, but since nearly everyone actually (mis)pronounces it for-TAY, the definition of "properly" is shifting and both are often listed as being acceptable. But if we're in graduate school in this thread, that should be noted.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by George Carlin

The English word forte, meaning "specialty" or "strong point," is not pronounced "for-tay." Got that? It is pronounced "fort." The Italian word forte, used in music notation, is pronounced "for-tay," and it instructs the musician to play loud: "She plays the skin flute, and her forte [fort] is playing forte [for-tay]."

 

[Passacaglia]

Glad this thread got bumped, as I was just about to. Let's talk about deceptively.

de·cep·tive·ly ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-sptv-l)
adv.
In a deceptive or deceiving manner; so as to deceive.
Usage Note: When deceptively is used to modify an adjective, the meaning is often unclear. Does the sentence The pool is deceptively shallow mean that the pool is shallower or deeper than it appears? When the Usage Panel was asked to decide, 50 percent thought the pool shallower than it appears, 32 percent thought it deeper than it appears, and 18 percent said it was impossible to judge. Thus a warning notice worded in such a way would be misinterpreted by many of the people who read it, and others would be uncertain as to which sense was intended. Where the context does not make the meaning of deceptively clear, the sentence should be rewritten, as in The pool is shallower than it looks or The pool is shallow, despite its appearance.

I don't know what the Usage Panel is, but I'm in the camp that says if something is deceptively shallow, is still is shallow.

[sachmo71]

some of you folks could make ass-diamonds

[Wolvendancer]

Since this is ostensibly a sports forum, I'll give ya two I find in sports reporting a lot:

"Barry Sanders finally got untracked, rolling for over 200 total yards."

My God, how I hate this. He got on track, not untracked.

"Brett Favre to announce retirement today."

"To" is not a verb. Brett Favre will announce, perhaps, or perhaps you could find an active verb that isn't a form of be.

[sachmo71]

See?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Wolvendancer

Since this is ostensibly a sports forum, I'll give ya two I find in sports reporting a lot:

"Barry Sanders finally got untracked, rolling for over 200 total yards."

My God, how I hate this. He got on track, not untracked.

"Brett Favre to announce retirement today."

"To" is not a verb. Brett Favre will announce, perhaps, or perhaps you could find an active verb that isn't a form of be.

I understand your complaint, but I think 'announce' is the active verb here. The form 'to announce' is the infinitive. I think that might be considered acceptable usage in a headline.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Wolvendancer

"Brett Favre to announce retirement today."

"To" is not a verb. Brett Favre will announce, perhaps, or perhaps you could find an active verb that isn't a form of be.

I disagree here... the convention for headlines defies regular grammar, and alows them to truncate and eliminate words that are easily understood. Here, I have no problem with that particular convention -- it's clear what they mean in any reasonable context... they obviously mean "is prepared to announce" or "is scheduled to announce" or something of the sort.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is there a smilie for the "woosh, over your head" action?

It's spelled forte`, and pronounced for-TAY. It was my attempt at a joke at the expense of the cache/cachet writer.

I'll say Whooosh! right back at you.

[QuikSand]

Here's another one -- a little subtle, and I don't think I have ever seen a formal rule for what to do.

The phrase "whether or not" can, in perhaps 90% of its uses, be perfectly replaced with the word "whether." Clear writing prefers brevity - so it's preferred to use the simpler version.

Similar logic led a professor to once tell me "there's no circumstance when you need the word 'utilize' -- we have a perfectly good word for that already, it's 'use.'"

[Pumpy Tudors]

Evidently, a common thing here in the Pittsburgh area is to say "anymore" instead of "lately" (example: "I haven't taken my clothes off for money anymore."). When I was a kid, I had read a couple of things describing the proper ways to use "leave" and "let", but I never heard anybody get them wrong when I was in Louisiana. Well, I know what the books were talking about now. Many people up here use "leave" instead of "let" and vice versa.

I know it's kind of silly for a guy from New Orleans to talk about people talking funny, but down there, we just made up our own words. Up here, people use real words, but they use them in strange ways.

[Huckleberry]

I must disagree regarding sneaked versus snuck. Before I got to the post describing the origin of snuck as a regional issue, I was going to explain the same thing.

And I'll be damned if "y'all" wasn't a word until those damn Yankee dictionary-makers finally added it.

[Maple Leafs]

Did I cover "hopefully" already?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I must disagree regarding sneaked versus snuck. Before I got to the post describing the origin of snuck as a regional issue, I was going to explain the same thing.

I fail to see what you're disagree with. As stated above... the long-standing proper form is "sneaked," but "snuck" has become increasingly widely used and is now very common, to the point of becoming (by some sources) an acceptable alternative.

You disagree with what from above? The statement that "sneaked" is the correct word?

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

You disagree with what from above? The statement that "sneaked" is the correct word?

Yes. I do believe you'd get your ass kicked around here for saying that. And that can never be correct.

[QuikSand]

I don't expect to be visiting anytime soon.

[21C]

Has anyone mentioned my pet peeve of "off of"?

As in "I picked up the paper off of my lawn". It seems to get used all of the time when "off" would suffice.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Example usage:

The North Koreans' continued use of nuclear testing was clearly intended to flaunt international organizations.

- - -

The word you want here is flout, not flaunt.

To flout is to defy... to flaunt is to show off. It's actually not that subtle a difference, though I'd estimate that 80% or more of the people who seek to use the word "flout" end up incorrectly using the word "flaunt" instead.

This could end up becoming another one of these "language evolution" debates -- as in time, some dictionaries might start to include a secondary usage of "flaunt" to mean "to defy." It still doesn't make it right -- the word to use is "flout," period.

Of course, people could avoid this error by using the word "defy" when they want to use a word that means "defy."

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Here's another one -- a little subtle, and I don't think I have ever seen a formal rule for what to do.

The phrase "whether or not" can, in perhaps 90% of its uses, be perfectly replaced with the word "whether." Clear writing prefers brevity - so it's preferred to use the simpler version.

Just like forever and ever. Forever pretty much covers it.

[Zippo]

"the data show" not "the data shows"

[Mac Howard]

Being an Englishman I usually feel superior in these threads but there's a couple of errors listed above that I wasn't aware of - whoops, of which I wasn't aware

I note, QS, that there's an uncharacteristic number of typos in your posts. Have you included a code for us to work on or is your subconscious playing tricks because of the subject matter?

A couple of things I hear from Americans which always causes me to wonder if they're errors or common usage on your side of the pond:

alternate instead of alternative

The answer "I don't" instead of "I haven't" - "Have you seen my car keys?. "No, I don't".

"Start over" instead of "start over again"

Oh, and my ancestors in Lancashire have been saying "snook" for centuries