Official College Football Week 12 thread

[mauchow]

Wisconsin demolishes Indiana 51-3 yesterday. 676 total yards vs 224 yards. This is also the first time this year Indiana didn't score at least 28 points in a game. Wisconsin's defense is pretty tough this year.

I'm looking forward to the possibility of playing Texas A&M in the Cap One Bowl or the outside shot at playing in a BCS Bowl.

Next week WIsconsin gets Minnesota which is there last opportunity to improve their status in the CPU Polls. If we can absolutely demolish them next week then I can see some voters jumping us over UCF (if they don't already later today), NIU, Oklahoma and LSU.

USC is likely to jump us if they keep going crazy but it won't matter a whole lot as they have to play UCLA yet and UCLA has to play ASU and whoever comes out in that has to play Oregon. So for Wisconsin's sake if everyone just beats each other up that will help WI in three ways. UCLA beats USC, ASU beats UCLA, Oregon beats ASU. That's three helps for WI.

I'm sure I've mentioned it before.. but I love College Football! During the Auburn game my wife was skyping with her mom and sister. The sister is an Auburn Alum and during the span of their conversation Georgia had made their miraculous comeback and they parted after the TD for Georgia and I started to rub it in. Five minutes later I get a text message back "War Damn Eagle!!!!". I had to laugh.

Fun stuff. Too bad Nebraska has no coaching discipline (5 turnovers, really?). MSU is extremely opportunistic and I'm just not sure they stand a chance against OSU in the B1G CCG. But that's why they play the game. If they win that game, good for them and best of luck in the Rose Bowl. If they lose, Wisconsin likely sneaks ahead of them in the BCS and snags a BCS Bowl ahead of them... which of course would piss them off. Again.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Cutcliffe is no different from Grobe at Wake Forest. They've both done tremendous jobs with restrictions and limitations that are almost unfair at this level, even in a weaker conference like the ACC. But, you're right. This is about as high as Duke could ever rise, a true lightning-in-a-bottle season, much like Wake in 2006. Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and Stanford probably are the only comparables and at least the first two can sell the conferences they play in while Stanford can tap into the California talent base and get great players who are also good in school. Duke and Wake? The conference is less than desirable, they have to fight not only with the three big state schools for recruits, but pretty much everyone in the SEC east of Mississippi, and the tradition is well buried in the past (in Duke's case) or never existed (in Wake's case). So, yeah, they've done tremendous things there, but there just aren't ingredients in place to do this any more than once in a while.

I can't tell if it's a good or bad thing for the ACC that Duke is thisclose to being FSU's opponent in the CCG. On the one hand, having a program down so long and so much as Duke's has been become a contender should in theory mean the really bad bottom of the ACC will no longer be as bad and improve the overall depth of the league, but on the other hand, the national perception will be "ACCLOLDuke!"

At any rate, a lot of State fans are wishing like hell they had Cutcliffe right now, so that's something. Quite a few are ready to show Doeren the door after one year and I can sort of empathize. We all knew there would be challenges in dealing with the dearth of talent left by the last coaching staff being forced into a new offensive system that made no sense with the players on hand, but this team isn't really losing and showing growth or promise in the process. This team is losing and losing badly every week. Even the worst teams during the dreadful Tom Reed years in the early 1980s won a conference game or two. This team may be the first winless Pack team in the ACC since 1959.

I agree on Cut, sort of.
Without typing a bunch with one hand in a cast I'll line itme some key differences I see.
- Duke has substantially more money available than Wake.
- Duke has a national brand and cache based on Coach K..if they can ever find a way to cross promote that...
- Yeah the academics are high but Duke has a reduced program in place to allow otherwise non qualifiers
- Cut is an offensive mastermind, Grobe was sharp but Cut is a different level.
- Relating to the last point, Grobe depended on running and midline veer and misdirection which was a dated concept that was difficult to recruit to, where Cut is a top level QB coach (see the reason PM went to UT) and has roots in the early spread and the Mumme air raid. Easier to find slightly undersized fast WR than grow into OL.

All that said...I just dont think Duke can convince NC kids to thumb their nose at UNC and NCSU to play ball there and they need in state talent to ever succeed.


Regarding Doeren, I am not sure what to make of him yet.
- TOB left the cover not just bare but empty.
- NCSU looks like a team that put a ton of eut it this wayffort into shocking Clemson early and when they failed they seemed to have shot their wad and never recovered.
- A good friend and ACC coach put it this way. Doeren is great at maintaining what is in place and tweaking the small and smoothing the edges. Kill built NIU and Doeren refined it, polished it, and kept it going. TOB crushed NCSU and Doeren is keeping it right there.

I've been shocked by the feedback I've heard on the recruiting trail about him directly. He has some recruiters on that staff, but he is doing himself no favors with high school coaches. For example if you are going to ell a HS coach, "If you really want that kid to go to WS State and never have a chance to make anything of himself as a result." (supposedly a word for word direct quote) It is probably a good idea to make sure said HS head coach didnt graduate from WS State...

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I've never heard Wake Forest in the same.breath as Duke and Northwestern and especially Stanford, as far as academics go.

True, Wake probably isn't in that same echelon, but they still face similar challenges those other schools face being a private school at the BCS level of play.

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Regarding Doeren, I am not sure what to make of him yet.
- TOB left the cover not just bare but empty.
- NCSU looks like a team that put a ton of eut it this wayffort into shocking Clemson early and when they failed they seemed to have shot their wad and never recovered.
- A good friend and ACC coach put it this way. Doeren is great at maintaining what is in place and tweaking the small and smoothing the edges. Kill built NIU and Doeren refined it, polished it, and kept it going. TOB crushed NCSU and Doeren is keeping it right there.

I've been shocked by the feedback I've heard on the recruiting trail about him directly. He has some recruiters on that staff, but he is doing himself no favors with high school coaches. For example if you are going to ell a HS coach, "If you really want that kid to go to WS State and never have a chance to make anything of himself as a result." (supposedly a word for word direct quote) It is probably a good idea to make sure said HS head coach didnt graduate from WS State...

I don't have the connections you've got to second anything you've said about Doeren, but I'm just not impressed with him in general right now. There's something that doesn't feel right about it. A lot of good coaching hires will show themselves in the first year because they'll be able to produce something that looks like potential even in the bad games, leading to positive vibes going forward. Doeren hasn't produced anything like that as far as I can tell. There were those first two drives against Louisiana Tech before Mitchell broke his foot, but there's been almost nothing since then. The first quarter annihilation at FSU was probably the most embarrassed I've been in a while as a State fan (and given the number of low points I've watched in Pack athletics since 1990, that's saying much). I'm really hoping that he can get the ship righted and that all this enthusiasm he's tried to drum up with his recruiting does pay off in time, but it's a very precarious position for the program right now. Competing for third or fourth in the Atlantic Division every year is not the ceiling that was envisioned when we built all those improvements to Carter-Finley in the past 10 years. State's never had a rich tradition in football, true, but there was a window where they could have made something happen with FSU and Clemson hobbling through the past decade. I think that window's closing now, though.

[MrBug708]

What is that disadvantage that they face, being a private school?

[Eaglesfan27]

That was a very exciting win. Can't wait to see how the last few games play out.

[mauchow]

Wisconsin jumps OU, UCF and LSU in the coaches poll. Two more than I thought they would this week. Sweet deal. THat will give us a nice push, especially if the Harris Poll emulates Coaches.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

What is that disadvantage that they face, being a private school?

Probably the same difficulty getting kids into school that Miami has.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Im only slightly positive, but I think they are losing 22 seniors in the 2 deep. Who knows how accurate that number is though.

Might be true, but you have to be careful when looking at their depth chart - they're like Notre Dame in that they don't list guys by eligibility, so a lot of guys listed as "Sr" on their roster have redshirted and have another year of eligibility.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

True, Wake probably isn't in that same echelon, but they still face similar challenges those other schools face being a private school at the BCS level of play.



I don't have the connections you've got to second anything you've said about Doeren, but I'm just not impressed with him in general right now. There's something that doesn't feel right about it. A lot of good coaching hires will show themselves in the first year because they'll be able to produce something that looks like potential even in the bad games, leading to positive vibes going forward. Doeren hasn't produced anything like that as far as I can tell. There were those first two drives against Louisiana Tech before Mitchell broke his foot, but there's been almost nothing since then. The first quarter annihilation at FSU was probably the most embarrassed I've been in a while as a State fan (and given the number of low points I've watched in Pack athletics since 1990, that's saying much). I'm really hoping that he can get the ship righted and that all this enthusiasm he's tried to drum up with his recruiting does pay off in time, but it's a very precarious position for the program right now. Competing for third or fourth in the Atlantic Division every year is not the ceiling that was envisioned when we built all those improvements to Carter-Finley in the past 10 years. State's never had a rich tradition in football, true, but there was a window where they could have made something happen with FSU and Clemson hobbling through the past decade. I think that window's closing now, though.

I've always thought NCSU was a sleeping giant with tons of potential.
The scary thing to me is Doeren seems to be web based ranking recruiting. The whole scout/rivals/247 ranking system is flawed if not down right corrupt. In any given year there are always prospects who get an elevated profile because of who is high school coach is, or because he is a good kid, or a given analyst made a connection with the kid and wants to see that kid "escape"...
There are a few "high ranked" kids on the State board that folks at other ACC schools say they wouldnt want as a walk on. State doesnt (or more aptly put, shouldnt) have to recruit that way. I am not sure if the style is due to lack of evaluation ability or laziness....neither is a good sign for a young coach though.

I will say this however vaguely I can. There is a certain coach I have frequent access to who as recently as 11 months ago was very intimate with the happenings in Raleigh, and still has friends there. He says many inside the program are not very comfortable there and looking to jump.

All that said, FSU is going to embarrass a lot of folks this year and next.

[CraigSca]

I would love to see an FSU/Duke ACC Championship. Would probably be the only time I'd ever root fro FSU.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I would love to see an FSU/Duke ACC Championship. Would probably be the only time I'd ever root fro FSU.

Line of the day. The over/under on that game is 70. To be fair 3 points are being assigned to Duke in that scenario

[Matthean]

Somebody today tried to talk me into Duke making a game of it. Um, no.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

The first quarter annihilation at FSU was probably the most embarrassed I've been in a while as a State fan (and given the number of low points I've watched in Pack athletics since 1990, that's saying much).

To be fair, FSU has dominated everyone (except maybe BC). I really don't understand how they are not #1. Apparently if you are in the SEC, you can lay an egg in a road game and it really doesn't matter, even if that team is terrible. But if you are in any other conference and you lay an egg in a road game, you get jumped.

Florida State has just dominated everyone. Every game they have played it seems like they are up 21-0 or 28-0 by end of the first quarter. They are making it look easy.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I find myself with another FCS team to root for late in the season, quite unexpectedly. The college closest to my hometown is Marist in Poughkeepsie NY. They are in the fifth season of membership in the Pioneer League, and with a late season win streak after being at .500, they have clinched a tie with Butler for the Conference championship, which is their first.

In bizarre news last week, San Diego (yes a California team in the same league as a NY team) after beating both Butler and Marist this season, announced they would be forfeiting the Pioneer Conference Championship and not go to the playoffs due to violations in its football program. Butler and Marist did not play each other this season, so the tiebreaker is complicated. If I understand it correctly though, I think Marist might win the tiebreaker and thus make the playoffs as well. That would be just crazy.

I was hoping that Dayton would win the conference especially with the playoff bid for the Pioneer starting up this year, but they just aren't quite as dominant as they used to be.

Funny that Butler and Marist's loss both came to San Diego, and they both beat everyone else they played.

The tiebreaker says this:

Originally Posted by The Tiebreaker

If the teams are still tied, the league will determine the automatic qualifier based on the average
rank of the tied teams using the seven computer rankings/ratings utilized by the Gridiron Power
Index plus the Simple Rating System (if the SRS is publicly available prior to selection weekend).
[Updated 11/14/2013]
 Clarification: Each tied team will be ranked according to their position in each poll. For
example, if Team A is ranked 139 and Team B is ranked 159 in a particular ranking/rating…
Team A is ranked “first” for the purposes of this tiebreaker. Once the ranking for each
team is determined, they will be averaged and the team with the better average will be the
AQ.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

To be fair, FSU has dominated everyone (except maybe BC). I really don't understand how they are not #1. Apparently if you are in the SEC, you can lay an egg in a road game and it really doesn't matter, even if that team is terrible. But if you are in any other conference and you lay an egg in a road game, you get jumped.

Bama has three wins over teams that are still ranked, FSU has one (and will still only have one two weeks from now)

Ultimately though, to be The Man somebody has got to beat The Man.
And that hasn't happened yet this year.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Bama has three wins over teams that are still ranked, FSU has one (and will still only have one two weeks from now)

The concern is that there is bias even in those rankings. The SEC beats up on each other, but because it's the SEC, everyone thinks they aren't bad losses. As mentioned, other teams get a loss, they are screwed, but if you're in the SEC you can lose your DIVISION (let alone conference) and still make the national championship game.

I am SO looking forward to a playoff with all the key conference champions involved.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Bama has three wins over teams that are still ranked, FSU has one (and will still only have one two weeks from now)

Ultimately though, to be The Man somebody has got to beat The Man.
And that hasn't happened yet this year.

When The Man's side of the conference and their OOC schedule is filled with patsies, that makes it pretty tough for anyone ELSE to be able to do it.

Auburn is artificially high right now, just because of SEC. Texas A&M, same. LSU, same.

I mean, the two times in the past 2 years that Alabama played a team with a legitimate spread offense, they lost one and had a close game on the road in the other.

I would quite enjoy seeing Alabama run the gauntlet of the Big 12, where it seems that every team except Texas runs the spread, and runs it effectively. It is awfully hard to run through that conference because every week if your defense makes a few mistakes, you are down 35 points. In the SEC, if your defense makes a few mistakes, you only win 24-16 instead of 31-7.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The concern is that there is bias even in those rankings. The SEC beats up on each other, but because it's the SEC, everyone thinks they aren't bad losses. As mentioned, other teams get a loss, they are screwed, but if you're in the SEC you can lose your DIVISION (let alone conference) and still make the national championship game.

I am SO looking forward to a playoff with all the key conference champions involved.

Why would a human playoff committee eliminate the supposed human SEC bias that exists in the polls? Never understood why anyone thinks this process will be any different than the BCS outside of there being 4 teams instead of 2. We are just going to hear the same arguements again next year.

Anyways there are still 3 weeks left. If you go back to the thread from 2 weeks ago it was OMG Stanford is getting screwed. This stuff seems to work itself out every year. IMO Baylor and Bama aren't going to make it and we likely will see Ohio State vs. Florida State. Who knows though maybe Florida or Duke will pull one out or Michigan State or Michigan?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

When The Man's side of the conference and their OOC schedule is filled with patsies, that makes it pretty tough for anyone ELSE to be able to do it.

Auburn is artificially high right now, just because of SEC. Texas A&M, same. LSU, same.

I mean, the two times in the past 2 years that Alabama played a team with a legitimate spread offense, they lost one and had a close game on the road in the other.

I would quite enjoy seeing Alabama run the gauntlet of the Big 12, where it seems that every team except Texas runs the spread, and runs it effectively. It is awfully hard to run through that conference because every week if your defense makes a few mistakes, you are down 35 points. In the SEC, if your defense makes a few mistakes, you only win 24-16 instead of 31-7.

LOL. The guantlet of Iowa State, WV, KU, TCU, and Texas Tech? Didn't Ole Miss beat Texas at their house? There are some counter arguements to be made to the SEC (Pac-12 maybe?) but the Big 12?

(And I guess Mizzou only counts when the argument is being made can use them to prop up the Big 12. Bama blew Mizzou's spread out last year and will possbily play them again in three weeks)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

Why would a human playoff committee eliminate the supposed human SEC bias that exists in the polls? Never understood why anyone thinks this process will be any different than the BCS outside of there being 4 teams instead of 2. We are just going to hear the same arguements again next year.

Especially when -- as will happen sooner or later -- 3 of the 4 teams end up being from the SEC (or even just 2, with 2 others from a single conference)

Remember kids, there's no limitations on who gets those plum spots, no guarantees for anybody anymore.

we likely will see Ohio State vs. Florida State.

Dear Lord, what an abomination that would be. FSU by, hmm, 50.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by panerd

LOL. The guantlet of Iowa State, WV, KU, TCU, and Texas Tech? Didn't Ole Miss beat Texas at their house? There are some counter arguements to be made to the SEC (Pac-12 maybe?) but the Big 12?

(And I guess Mizzou only counts when the argument is being made can use them to prop up the Big 12. Bama blew Mizzou's spread out last year and will possbily play them again in three weeks)

Ole Miss beating Texas was a "good" win. I mean, relatively anyway. It's at least against someone else from a real conference. Their other OOC wins were SE Missouri St, Troy, and Idaho. They're 7-3 and ranked, which makes some go "look! the SEC West is even tougher, Ole Miss is good!" But really all they've done is snap up a couple of wins in the SEC that had to go to somebody.

Is there any place that has a list of BCS conf teams that have wins over other, OOC BCS teams? I'm tempted to patch one together but don't know if it is really worth the effort. I mean, ok - Auburn has one, vs WSU (not a good team). Bama has one, against VT. A&M doesn't have one. LSU beat TCU.

Of course, FSU currently has none (UF pending), tOSU has..CAL (CAL put up 34 against them? lol). Baylor has none and won't. Oregon has Virginia and Tennessee (oh boy - but at least it's something, I guess). Clemson has Georgia. Mizzou has...Indiana.

So yeah...OOC scheduling is largely shit all around. So you're basically left with an eye test and reputation. Not much you can do. And yeah, 4 vs 2, we'll still get the same arguments.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I was hoping that Dayton would win the conference especially with the playoff bid for the Pioneer starting up this year, but they just aren't quite as dominant as they used to be.

Funny that Butler and Marist's loss both came to San Diego, and they both beat everyone else they played.

The tiebreaker says this:

Originally Posted by The Tiebreaker
If the teams are still tied, the league will determine the automatic qualifier based on the average
rank of the tied teams using the seven computer rankings/ratings utilized by the Gridiron Power
Index plus the Simple Rating System (if the SRS is publicly available prior to selection weekend).
[Updated 11/14/2013]
 Clarification: Each tied team will be ranked according to their position in each poll. For
example, if Team A is ranked 139 and Team B is ranked 159 in a particular ranking/rating…
Team A is ranked “first” for the purposes of this tiebreaker. Once the ranking for each
team is determined, they will be averaged and the team with the better average will be the
AQ.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah that was the part of the tiebreaker I didn't understand/able to figure out. I don't know if they will have to wait until all the other conference games are over or not. There's a couple left this weekend.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

Why would a human playoff committee eliminate the supposed human SEC bias that exists in the polls? Never understood why anyone thinks this process will be any different than the BCS outside of there being 4 teams instead of 2. We are just going to hear the same arguements again next year.

This

It was the same when they went to 68 teams in the NCAA tournament. The 69th team will bitch.

With the current set up the 5th team will bitch. If you take the BCS standings as a barometor the 4 teams are Baylor, Bama, FSU, and OSU. Does anyone thing Oregon really doesn't belong? Or the undefeated non BCS team will bitch. Go to 8 team playoff and the 9th team will bitch, etc...

[larrymcg421]

I've never understood that argument. Yes in a 4 team playoff, #5 will complain and in an 8 team playoff, #9 will complain, and so on. But I'd rather have #5, #9, #17, or whoever complain than #3.

I mean, under that line of thought, why do we even pick two teams? Why not just go back to picking 1 team as the champion. Then you could say to people who don't like that, even if we pick two teams, #3 will complain.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I've never understood that argument. Yes in a 4 team playoff, #5 will complain and in an 8 team playoff, #9 will complain, and so on. But I'd rather have #5, #9, #17, or whoever complain than #3.

oh I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that someone is always going to feel left out, and I think with a 4 team playoff many years that team will have a legit gripe.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I've never understood that argument. Yes in a 4 team playoff, #5 will complain and in an 8 team playoff, #9 will complain, and so on. But I'd rather have #5, #9, #17, or whoever complain than #3.

I mean, under that line of thought, why do we even pick two teams? Why not just go back to picking 1 team as the champion. Then you could say to people who don't like that, even if we pick two teams, #3 will complain.

I agree that 4 is better than 2 and that 8 is better than 4. I just was making the point that choosing 4 teams isn't going to clear up the supposed SEC bias at all. And like JiMGa pointed out it could actually get worse. Think LSU vs Bama was bad what happens if 2 or 3 SEC teams make up the final 4? I don't see how the committee will be any different than the BCS in that regard.

[Butter]

I thought the worst was LSU as a 2-loss team making the National Championship game in 2007.

[General Mike]

What are some good offerings to make to the football gods?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I thought the worst was LSU as a 2-loss team making the National Championship game in 2007.

Not sure who else goes there however ...

Voters had Ohio State and LSU as 1-2, Va Tech 5/6
Computers had VaTech 1, LSU 2, Ohio State 3

Only 2 teams appeared in the top 3 of both metrics.

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by General Mike

What are some good offerings to make to the football gods?

Lane Kiffin. But thats already been done.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not sure who else goes there however ...

Voters had Ohio State and LSU as 1-2, Va Tech 5/6
Computers had VaTech 1, LSU 2, Ohio State 3

Only 2 teams appeared in the top 3 of both metrics.

LSU also beat Virginia Tech head to head 48-7. Wasn't a hard call to pick between them once they were the remaining two options to play OSU.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Does anyone thing Oregon really doesn't belong?

They have a loss, so no.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

On that Michigan FG before the end of regulation, should the snap have been held up until Northwestern had a chance to sub in as well? Maybe the game situation overrides that rule?

Mailbag: We Should Have Been Screwed, Funk Position Paper | mgoblog

Wait, substitution. Wait. Wait, what?

Yo Brian,

So when the bearded lady rushed into the center ring to launch the football out of the cannon through the flaming uprights at the end of the Evanston Circus, Michigan obviously made a substitution. Northwestern did not make a substitution, but they, according to the Rules, could have. If they did, it seems like that would have taken more time before the official gave the ready for play, and potentially wasted enough time to run the clock out. In this parallel universe game which is crazier than the actual circus which unfolded, does Michigan get to attempt the field goal? How are the rules applied in that situation (which thankfully did not happen)?

Eddie

We should have been screwed. The NCAA rulebook has a specific mention of this very scenario:

Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:30. Facing fourth down and three, Team A gives no indication as to its next play until the game clock reads 0:10. They then rush their field goal unit onto the field, and Team B then hurries to respond.

RULING: The umpire moves to the ball to prevent the snap until Team B has had a reasonable opportunity to get its field-goal defense unit onto the field. The umpire will step away when he judges that the defense has had enough time. If the game clock reads 0:00 before the ball is snapped after the umpire steps away, the half is over.

That is in blue along with various other new rules (like "minimum time for spiking the ball") this year, so it must have just been added. If Fitz tried to substitute, the rulebook says that the refs have to let him and the clock would then run out.

This is of course terrible since it prevents the sort of exciting thing that happened against Northwestern and replaces it with the clock running out because the defense can't get aligned in time and should be immediately stricken in the name of fun… except maybe it doesn't exist?

Game ref Bill LeMonnier:

“When a team is coming out and it’s the last play of the game and they substitute with their field-goal team, the defense is not given the opportunity,” referee Bill LeMonnier said. “Usually there’s match-up time on substitutions. When it’s the field-goal attempt like that on the last play of the half, then there’s no match-up given.”

This is in direct contradiction of the rulebook. So… yeah. I don't know. The only thing that may reconcile these two points of view is the rulebook stating that the team getting the FG unit out there spent 20 seconds doing nothing, whereas Michigan was clearly going GO GO GO as soon as Gallon was tackled.

Spiritually, if you can't get your FG block team on the field in that situation and the other team can get the play off, screw your field goal block team. Fire drills forever

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Matthean

They have a loss, so no.

So by your criteria Norther Illinois and Fresno State belong in.

And Bama would have been out the last 2 seasons.

[Butter]

I agree with Matthean, Oregon deserves to be #5 right now. If not lower.

NIU and Fresno are not BCS teams, and are clearly not playing at the same level as the rest of the top 15.

In 2011 and 2012, there was only 1 undefeated team... LSU in 2011 and Notre Dame in 2012, so your hypothetical makes no sense.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I agree with Matthean, Oregon deserves to be #5 right now. If not lower.

NIU and Fresno are not BCS teams, and are clearly not playing at the same level as the rest of the top 15.

In 2011 and 2012, there was only 1 undefeated team... LSU in 2011 and Notre Dame in 2012, so your hypothetical makes no sense.

Neither does his comment that Oregon shouldn't be in a playoff because they have a loss.

Had he elaborated and made a point other than them having a loss maybe I could buy it, but having a loss can't and shouldn't automatically eliminate you from post season.

[Butter]

It should if there are 4 other BCS unbeaten teams and there are 4 playoff spots. I think that was his point.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

It should if there are 4 other BCS unbeaten teams and there are 4 playoff spots. I think that was his point.

+1

[Lathum]

he certainly didn't word it that way.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

he certainly didn't word it that way.

{scratches head} But you had just stipulated four teams

If you take the BCS standings as a barometor the 4 teams are Baylor, Bama, FSU, and OSU. Does anyone thing Oregon really doesn't belong?

And no, if you're looking at which four belong in a playoff scenario involving the top 4 teams, right now Oregon does not belong in that group.

They might end up in that group by season's end, but today, they're aren't in it.

[Lathum]

I get that, my original point was more that there is always going to be a team that feels left out, correctly or incorrectly. Now I get that Oregon has a loss, and if you want to use that as an eliminator then fine, but if you don't think they are every bit as talented as those other 4 teams you don't watch much Oregon football. I would conceed Bama and FSU are likely better, Baylor you can argue, and tOSU is in no way better than Oregon.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

Lane Kiffin. But thats already been done.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I get that, my original point was more that there is always going to be a team that feels left out, correctly or incorrectly. Now I get that Oregon has a loss, and if you want to use that as an eliminator then fine, but if you don't think they are every bit as talented as those other 4 teams you don't watch much Oregon football. I would conceed Bama and FSU are likely better, Baylor you can argue, and tOSU is in no way better than Oregon.

It isn't entirely about who is the most talented. It never is.

[Butter]

We may well get the Oregon / Ohio State matchup in the Rose Bowl again, so we'll be able to address one of your points directly.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

We may well get the Oregon / Ohio State matchup in the Rose Bowl again, so we'll be able to address one of your points directly.

I have watched a lot of both teams, living in Ohio but being a PAC 12 fan and as long as Mariotta is healthy Oregon beats OSU going away. tOSUs defense just isn't very good. They have given up 35 to Illinois, 24 to Iowa, 30 to Northwestern, and 34 to Cal. The most points Oregon has given up was 38 to WSU, the next highest is 24 against a good Washington offense. tOSU has played 6 B10 games and given up 24 or more in four of those games. I think Oregons offense would have their way wit hthem.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have watched a lot of both teams, living in Ohio but being a PAC 12 fan and as long as Mariotta is healthy Oregon beats OSU going away. tOSUs defense just isn't very good. They have given up 35 to Illinois, 24 to Iowa, 30 to Northwestern, and 34 to Cal. The most points Oregon has given up was 38 to WSU, the next highest is 24 against a good Washington offense. tOSU has played 6 B10 games and given up 24 or more in four of those games. I think Oregons offense would have their way wit hthem.

I think they are better than you are giving them credit for. The difference in OSU's and Oregon's points allowed total for the year is about half a point per game. I would agree that if you watched the Illinois and Cal games, OSU doesn't look very good objectively. And Oregon has played a more difficult schedule. But I don't think it would be the blowout you are positing. As much as I dislike him, Urban Meyer is a pretty good football coach.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So by your criteria Norther Illinois and Fresno State belong in.

And Bama would have been out the last 2 seasons.

During the last two seasons 'Bama was in the Top 4 so they were worthy of being in a playoff. This year there are already four undefeated teams worthy of being in a playoff so there's no reason to justify Oregon being in a playoff.

And teams can complain about being left out, but the formula is simple, don't lose.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Logan

Mailbag: We Should Have Been Screwed, Funk Position Paper | mgoblog

It looks like they've updated...

UPDATE: NEVERMIND the below, as I missed this section in the rulebook:

Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:10. Facing fourth down and three, Team A immediately hurries its field goal team onto the field. RULING: Team B should reasonably expect that Team A will attempt a field goal in this situationand should have its field-goal defense unit ready. The umpire will not stand over the ball, as there should be no issue of the defense being uncertain about the next play.

mgoblog is a fantastic site. I wish there was an OSU equivalent that dives into the games the way that they do.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

And teams can complain about being left out, but the formula is simple, don't lose.

I'd be more on-board with this if there was more standardization across conferences in terms of scheduling and alignment.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I get that, my original point was more that there is always going to be a team that feels left out, correctly or incorrectly.

And in this case no one would buy it. I think the hierarchy is quite clear

Undefeated BCS teams
1-loss SEC teams
1-loss BCS teams
Legit undefeated non-BCS teams (think TCU, Boise or Cincinnati/Louisville in one of their good years)
2-loss SEC teams

The only time this hierarchy was skipped was when 2-loss LSU got in over 1-loss Virginia Tech, and there was a pretty big extenuating circumstance there (the 40+ point LSU H2H win). In fact, if Baylor/Ohio State both lost and it came to it I would expect a 1-loss Auburn team, or a 1-loss Missouri team that is coming off a victory over Alabama to jump ahead of Oregon.