WW LXVII - Heroes (GAME OVER! HEROES WIN!)

[path12]

I've never seen the show, but checking in as a hero. Bring it on, company. You bastards.

[st.cronin]

Going to get a vote out early, I won't be around much today, and probably not much tomorrow before the deadline.

VOTE ARDENT ENTHUSIAST

Welcome back, buddy.

[st.cronin]

By the way, I watched all of season 1, and my power doesn't really match up with my character in any obvious way. Possibly something develops in season 2, or maybe I'm just missing it.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Uh... please see Post #3

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...96&postcount=3

All the possible characters in this game are listed there.





There are 23 players, and 31 names.

Is it safe to assume that the bad guys know which characters are in this game (similar to the Greek Gods game we had), and that any reveal of any name cannot be trusted?

I dont think they will know who is in the game. At least I dont think sylar knows. werent we told he would not be given a name not in use

[ntndeacon]

I am also a hero. and my power seems close the show.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I dont think they will know who is in the game. At least I dont think sylar knows. werent we told he would not be given a name not in use

Why do you think so?

That is a dangerous assumption (if it ends up being false).

Looking back at jeheinz' posting of the rules:

Every player in this game has some sort of role, Hero, Company member or Sylar. Each of you has a name, but it doesn't really pertain to your "side" in this game (ie someone who is good on the show isn't necessarily good here), except for Sylar, he's bad, but we've been over that.

Which means names might only be good for determining powers and not affiliation.

Being unsure about what Sylar's role is in this game (maybe a serial killer-type player?), I think the baddies might have a list of who are in this game (a likely mechanic to prevent a mass-reveal), revealing who we are might lead them to pick us off easier, like Alan T said.

[DaddyTorgo]

got my PM. don't really have time to check it and read through the rules (which we all know I don't do till after the game starts), until i get home. fortunately it's a "no workout" day which usually means I can get online sooner.

[ntndeacon]

The Company may well have a list of players, but didn't our great leader let us know he wasn't going to give skylar a false name to use. That seems to imply that he won't be given those playing either.

[Alan T]

I'm still saying that it probably doesn't matter if they received a list of players in game or not.. since jeheinz also came out and said that people who were on one side in the show aren't necessarily on that side in this game.

So we find out that Ntndeacon is Mr. Linderman or something, that doesn't mean much to us because as far as this game goes, he might be company or he might be a hero. We find out lets say that Hoops is Claire.. once again in this game that might mean Claire is company member or might not.

Jeheinz was very clear that he said player allegiances don't necessarily match up with the show. So I still haven't heard any good end goal that revealing names would accomplish for the good guys.

[mauchow]

Hero checking in. I've still not been a wolf over here at FOF. Lets kick the company's ass hero's!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Not wolf = Not Company? = Not Sylar? Hmm, Greyroofoo seems to be trying to confuse us already

Regarding show knowledge, I didn't know "Lost" when I played in that game and had to work hard to figure out the characters. So if there are questions I would be happy to help people out with background info.

Revealing - by revealing names we could potentially put pressure on the Company and Sylar. But it also gives a good starting point for figuring out what abilities someone has and what their relative value is within the game. I'm certainly up for discussing this if others are ... I'm not sure there were 23 people with powers across the two seasons (will try to verify this through Wikipedia or something like that) if that impacts people's thoughts on the matter.

I have to agree with Alan. Revealing names would give a blueprint to the company/ sylar.

[st.cronin]

Alan, I think what people are saying is that it *might* put some pressure on Sylar, and that there isn't any real downside, although I suppose it might put a target on some player's back.

[RendeR]

I don't know the show at all, saw only bits and pieces of it. So I'm the clueless wonder amongst us.

My PM says I'm a hero, I have a power that seems rather...inane, but hey, somebody's gotta have the power to grow their fingernails.

[Barkeep49]

I'm in and my hero power was crammed to fit WW.

[hoopsguy]

Neon, thanks for pointing out the list of names - I have referenced that post a couple of times in terms of player sign-ups but never registered the 31 potential characters until you quoted it. Wish I had seen it before I went dredging through Wikipedia.

I'm still kind of skeptical about the tight correlation between names/powers, but I'm fine with keeping info close if that is what the majority wants to do. I don't want to put our best and brightest in the line of fire for either Sylar or the Company without having some benefit in doing so.

Time to take a look at the list of names in greater detail.

[Narcizo]

Hello everyone,

it looks like revealing your name might be pretty similar to revealing your power. Now if we all we to do a mass reveal then fair enough but and the moment I don't see any reason to give that information out for free.

Someone raised a good point about being able to check up on what people have been doing with their powers later on in the game so I would suggest that it would be a very good idea for every villager to
a) use their power every day, and
b) keep the PM where they stated what they were doing with their power so they don't lose track of what they've done.

I've only had experience of being a wolf once but in that game my inability to explain what I had done each day could really have been my downfall. Consequently I think we should be very suspicious of someone who claims a power but is unable to account for what they did with that power every day.

If nothing else this should really force the wolfies to keep on their toes.

[Narcizo]

The person raising said "good point" would be Alan T. Mighta known.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Alan, I think what people are saying is that it *might* put some pressure on Sylar, and that there isn't any real downside, although I suppose it might put a target on some player's back.

No downside?

That's insane/ Lets say we reveal who we are and catch Sylar, we have then given the company a huge advantage.

I'd rather not cut off my nose to spite my face.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Alan, I think what people are saying is that it *might* put some pressure on Sylar, and that there isn't any real downside, although I suppose it might put a target on some player's back.

I think heinz (or whatever his designated abbreviation is) said that Sylar would be given one of the names so I don't think it would put any pressure on him.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

There will be a good amount more names than players, but he won't be told a name that isn't in the game.

Looking at it again, the statement is pretty ambiguous, so scratch that. In fact I don't really know what to make of this. Does it mean he will be given a name or not?

[hoopsguy]

OK, do people think there is value behind a public discussion of what 8 roles are least likely to be in the game? I've got some thoughts on this, but I don't really want to make it easier for Sylar (or someone else, for whatever reason) to fake reveal.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Looking at it again, the statement is pretty ambiguous, so scratch that. In fact I don't really know what to make of this. Does it mean he will be given a name or not?

I took it to mean that he doesn't get a free identity to assume - he has to figure out who to claim to be and runs the risk of picking a name already in the game.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Looking at it again, the statement is pretty ambiguous, so scratch that. In fact I don't really know what to make of this. Does it mean he will be given a name or not?

He'll be given a name: Sylar (at least that's how I read it).

I tend to be "All information all the time" guy and I don't think that revealing names is the way to go in this game. This despite the fact that if I were to reveal my name (based on my limited knowledge of the show) it still wouldn't allow someone else to figure out my power.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, do people think there is value behind a public discussion of what 8 roles are least likely to be in the game? I've got some thoughts on this, but I don't really want to make it easier for Sylar (or someone else, for whatever reason) to fake reveal.

I don't see that being a discussion which is +EV for the villagers.

[hoopsguy]

I'm just not sure what kind of meaningful discussion we are going to have today if we don't want to talk about names, don't want to talk about who is likely in/out of the game, don't want to talk about powers, etc.

So it sounds like we have just another ordinary Day 1. Which is OK, I guess, but Day 1 is always a dull crapshoot and I would rather have some meaningful conversation, if possible.

[hoopsguy]

One of those questions that probably should have been asked before the start of the game, since it now makes it sounds like I have an agenda, but what happens if the Company tries to night-kill Sylar?

The rules say that he can't be night-killed, but do they learn who Sylar is as a result?

Can a player night-kill Sylar if they had a night-kill power? (Note - I don't have that power but I would not be at all surprised to learn it is in the game)

[Barkeep49]

What if we talked about types of powers we'd see in the game, and even matching it up against characters.

For instance the painter guy seems like a natural seer.

Who might be the duke?

Do we think there are duplicate powers, or muted powers, to make sure everyone gets a power, or did JH come up with a unique power for each person?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm just not sure what kind of meaningful discussion we are going to have today if we don't want to talk about names, don't want to talk about who is likely in/out of the game, don't want to talk about powers, etc.

So it sounds like we have just another ordinary Day 1. Which is OK, I guess, but Day 1 is always a dull crapshoot and I would rather have some meaningful conversation, if possible.

I don't like just saying no to an idea without providing something that I feel is a better alternative, so I've been trying to think of a better alternative discussion to give for you today, but unfortunatly I don't see many discussions that would be positive for the villagers just yet. Everything would either be giving up too much of the wrong type of information too early, or just speculation that could lead us down the wrong road anyways.

My personal feeling is in games where all villagers have a role, it tends to favor the villagers to some small extent if used wisely, as they will have an extra amount of information that they normally wouldn't. That is why usually I favor a no lynch vote on day 1 in games where everyone has a role, wheras in other games I usually am pro-lynch on day 1. This game no-lynch doesn't seem like a valid voting option, but that said, I still think we could likely have alot more information on day 2 or 3 than we normally would.. but we just have to be patient for it.

In the end, I don't really have many other alternative topics in my mind for today, and it looks to me perhaps the best approach is the typical day 1 approach.

[RendeR]

Ok I admit it, my power is to explode in a nuclear reaction.


*wink*

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

What if we talked about types of powers we'd see in the game, and even matching it up against characters.

For instance the painter guy seems like a natural seer.

Who might be the duke?

Do we think there are duplicate powers, or muted powers, to make sure everyone gets a power, or did JH come up with a unique power for each person?

I can try to give my thoughts on that along with the character list jeheinz provided.. but it would just be my speculation.. I think it would be fun conversation, but perhaps not overly useful. Perhaps if someone else who is less familiar with the show than me has a role that they can spy on others , this would be helpful for.. so I'll work on that so others can comment on it.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

The rules say that he can't be night-killed, but do they learn who Sylar is as a result?

Can a player night-kill Sylar if they had a night-kill power? (Note - I don't have that power but I would not be at all surprised to learn it is in the game)

The rule looks pretty explicit to me - he "can't be night-killed by the Company". The fact that the rule says "the Company" suggests that if someone does have a night-kill ability they should be able to kill him.

[Barkeep49]

Alan: You seem awfully concerned about leading us down a wrong road with conversation. You hit it twice here and also earlier. Isn't any discussion, especially on D1, going to have a high chance of leading us down the wrong road?

[hoopsguy]

Here is a quick list of heros/powers.

Claire Bennet - heals self
Monica Dawson - mimic physical ability (hasn't shown ability to copy super power)
DL Hawkins - intangible
Maya Herrera - kill other with black tears
Issac Mendez - paint the future
Adam Monroe - heal self
Hiro Nakamura - teleport across time/space
Matt Parkman - telepath
Nathan Petrelli - flight
Peter Petrelli - copy powers
Sylar - steal powers from those he kills
Niki Sanders - super strength
Claude Rains - invisibility
The Haitian - erase memories
Alejandro Herrera - tag-along with sister
Eden McCain - persuasion
Maury Parkman - telepath
West Rosen - flight
Ted Sprague - radiation
Molly Walker - locate target
Ando Masahashi - tag-along with Hiro
Elle Bishop - electricity
Micah Sanders - communicate with machines
Noah Bennet - human, but kind of a badass
Bob Bishop - human scientist
Lyle Bennet - brother of Claire, human
Daniel Linderman - heal others
Simone Deveaux - human, love interest of Isaac and Peter
Mohinder Suresh - human scientist
Angela Petrelli - power unknown
Hana Gitelman - communications power

[Alan T]

Ahh crud, had a nice write up, and lost it by hitting the wrong button. Time to write it up again.

[Alan T]

Since Hoops already put together a list, here is my updates to his list:

DL Hawkins - by intangible, I assume Hoops means he has the ability to phase through matter including objects such as walls.
Hiro - in addition to his teleport powers, he has the ability to manipulate time by freezing it when he chooses to as well.
Niki - her super strength/agility only seems to be apparent by her alter ego whom also is a bit darker or more sinister.. Think of Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde.
The Haitain - Not only erase memories, but he also could block people's powers or prevent them from working if in close proximity.
Alejandro - He was more than a tag-along. He was immune to her power and also had the ability to heal others who were targeted by her if he got to them soon enough.
Bob Bishop - Supposedly I heard somewhere that he had the power of transmutation.. I don't remember where I read or heard or saw that.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Here is a quick list of heros/powers.

Claire Bennet - heals self
Monica Dawson - mimic physical ability (hasn't shown ability to copy super power)
DL Hawkins - intangible
Maya Herrera - kill other with black tears
Issac Mendez - paint the future
Adam Monroe - heal self
Hiro Nakamura - teleport across time/space
Matt Parkman - telepath
Nathan Petrelli - flight
Peter Petrelli - copy powers
Sylar - steal powers from those he kills
Niki Sanders - super strength
Claude Rains - invisibility
The Haitian - erase memories
Alejandro Herrera - tag-along with sister
Eden McCain - persuasion
Maury Parkman - telepath
West Rosen - flight
Ted Sprague - radiation
Molly Walker - locate target
Ando Masahashi - tag-along with Hiro
Elle Bishop - electricity
Micah Sanders - communicate with machines
Noah Bennet - human, but kind of a badass
Bob Bishop - human scientist
Lyle Bennet - brother of Claire, human
Daniel Linderman - heal others
Simone Deveaux - human, love interest of Isaac and Peter
Mohinder Suresh - human scientist
Angela Petrelli - power unknown
Hana Gitelman - communications power

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

The rule looks pretty explicit to me - he "can't be night-killed by the Company". The fact that the rule says "the Company" suggests that if someone does have a night-kill ability they should be able to kill him.

Just figured I would ask the question, as I'm betting Maya has a killing power. And she could have killed Sylar in the show with this power.

Looking at it from another angle, what if you were a member of the Company and tried/failed to night-kill Sylar? I would think that you want to see him voted off the island the next day if at all possible since that is part of your winning conditions.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Alan: You seem awfully concerned about leading us down a wrong road with conversation. You hit it twice here and also earlier. Isn't any discussion, especially on D1, going to have a high chance of leading us down the wrong road?

If the conversation is based on speculation it will be far less likely to lead people down the wrong road in a lasting sense than a conversation based on pre-conceived incorrect notions.

Remember the J.R.R Tolkien game that Anxiety ran that had incorrect names and roles in it where people were specifically lynched for telling the truth in the game, even if it was completely wrong from the actual stories. Jeheinz has made it clear here that we shouldn't base everything only on what we know from the TV show.

So obviously I'm not anti-conversation as I've been trying to come up with conversation, but conversation that leads to an advantage for the bad guys and no clear help for the good guys doesn't seem like a great idea to me right now.

[hoopsguy]

Forgot about Bob Bishop's ability - yeah, he had a pile of gold at one point when he was wooing Mohinder to work for him early in Season 2.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Just figured I would ask the question, as I'm betting Maya has a killing power. And she could have killed Sylar in the show with this power.

Looking at it from another angle, what if you were a member of the Company and tried/failed to night-kill Sylar? I would think that you want to see him voted off the island the next day if at all possible since that is part of your winning conditions.

I would guess if the company figured out who sylar was, they would likely try to use it to gain trust in some more elaborate plot. Killing sylar is good, but killing him to gain trust is better. Its not unusual for wolves to give up their own to gain trust, this is even more of a win-win for them.

[Schmidty]

I'm here.

[hoopsguy]

Seer - Isaac, Parkman, Molly
Bodyguard - Nikki, Peter
Duke - Nathan (senator), Eden
Assassin - Maya, Elle
Witness/Spy - DL, Claude

Obviously there are going to be a lot more powers than this in the game, but these are the people I thought were most likely to line up with the traditional roles.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Seer - Isaac, Parkman, Molly
Bodyguard - Nikki, Peter
Duke - Nathan (senator), Eden
Assassin - Maya, Elle
Witness/Spy - DL, Claude

Obviously there are going to be a lot more powers than this in the game, but these are the people I thought were most likely to line up with the traditional roles.

I think the Parkmans (or at least the father) could also be a duke type.. a Mass hallucination that caused people to vote a certain way. I think Eden probably seems the most likely duke though to me.

I'm curious to what people think of the characters such as HRG or Ando.. what type of powers do you think they might have in this game?

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm just not sure what kind of meaningful discussion we are going to have today if we don't want to talk about names, don't want to talk about who is likely in/out of the game, don't want to talk about powers, etc.

We could take the meta-approach and talk about whether we should talk about names, what the powers are, etc etc. Anyway, not having seen season two yet (part of the price you pay for living in a backward country) I've just realised that this game could contain spoilers. Generous soul that I am I won't demand that everyone uses spoiler tags though.

I'm off for the night so I'll be back with a DOLA-fest when you're all asleep.

[RendeR]

Hrm, are we really certain we should be comparing the TV show characters and powers with the games deisign? I would find it rather odd of heiney lined up each name with the power(s) they had on TV, it would be too easy to line up wuick targets that way.

Or am I rehashing sometihng everyone already understands?

[RendeR]

I think I've discovered my power....I am the super-typo-guy!

[Passacaglia]

Time to put in a vote -- the way Alan is arguing against reveals seems fishy.

VOTE ALAN T

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Time to put in a vote -- the way Alan is arguing against reveals seems fishy.

VOTE ALAN T

I dunno, revealing names just seems dangerous on day 1, if things ARE linked up to the show, then giving out names is just painting fat targets on people. I can't argue with keeping names secret.

Telling our powers is much the same. I'm not saying there comes a point we should reveal and we will, but I just don't think early game is the time to do that. Lets give our powers some time to work their magic first. ya know?

[Barkeep49]

I think I'm going to have a tough time with this game as I'm unfamiliar with the theme. The comfort level with the material is going to take some getting used to, I expect.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Hrm, are we really certain we should be comparing the TV show characters and powers with the games deisign? I would find it rather odd of heiney lined up each name with the power(s) they had on TV, it would be too easy to line up wuick targets that way.

Or am I rehashing sometihng everyone already understands?

Since so far the majority of people have mentioned their powers seem to line up with their charactewr, I don't think it is too far of a reach to think that in most cases they are aligned. Only a handful of people have seemed to suggest otherwise so far.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Time to put in a vote -- the way Alan is arguing against reveals seems fishy.

VOTE ALAN T

Since you have a problem with me thinking that its a bad idea to give information to Sylar and the company, but you seem to not want to give any reasons why it is a bad idea... I assume you are either Sylar or part of the company?