Wolverine Studios Presents.....Draft Day Sports: Pro Football

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by 3ric

Wolverine studios really need to provide a link to get past that Flash intro for non-Flash users.

Agreed. The regular front page would work just fine. The thing I think of when I see Flash-based entry pages is EA Sports. Needless to say, that doesn't provide a favorable impression. I don't need a flash page for a text-based game. If I want pretty graphics, I'll buy Madden '09.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by 3ric

Wolverine studios really need to provide a link to get past that Flash intro for non-Flash users.

Originally Posted by SkyDog

...and an entry page that doesn't have sound turned on as default.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Agreed. The regular front page would work just fine. The thing I think of when I see Flash-based entry pages is EA Sports. Needless to say, that doesn't provide a favorable impression. I don't need a flash page for a text-based game. If I want pretty graphics, I'll buy Madden '09.

I demand the front page produce freshly baked cookies as well.

[astrosfan64]

Maybe you guys would be happy if their front page was a spreadsheet?

[Bee]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

Maybe you guys would be happy if their front page was a spreadsheet?

Sure as hell would make it easier to surf at work.

[Buccaneer]

The purpose of any web page, as had been since the beginning, is to provide content. But unfortunately, many site's contents are buried under or among layers of needless gimmicks. Such content can be made to look great (instead of looking like someone read the first chapter of HTML for Dummies) but it is important to be able to get to the content as easily and undistractedly as possible (e.g., Sportsline >>> ESPN).

[Schmidty]

I just noticed this thread. Very exciting news.

I've never purchased any of the new DDS products because, although they seem excellent, they're overpriced, IMO. If they were $25 bucks or so, I'd buy them, but I can't justify $35. I feel the same way about FOF2007, and unfortunately, I missed the discount day(s).

I might actually buy this one though, especially if the demo and feedback are good, because I really like Gary's interfaces (like Arlie's). That makes the game MUCH more enjoyable for me than something like FOF (the proverbial rusty Yugo with a Ferrari engine).

[Buccaneer]

Schmidty, my friend, you are a cheap bastard. Next time you don't want to buy a game because you feel $35 is way more expensive than $25, let me know, I'll paypal you the $10.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Schmidty, my friend, you are a cheap bastard. Next time you don't want to buy a game because you feel $35 is way more expensive than $25, let me know, I'll paypal you the $10.

Send it to me. I'm not proud. I'm just cheap.

I guess I listen to Clark Howard too much.

[Danny]

If you want to skip the flash page, you can bookmark http://www.wolverinestudios.com/index.php instead. I think the site does a good job of displaying information and the flash is there more to attract people who are unfamiliar with the company and games

[flounder]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Thanks for the link - as we get closer to the beta if flounder or anyone else wants to write a utility like that I'll offer any help I can on my end to make it work with our game but that's as far as I'll go with it. Like I said, I'm not going to go and ask Jim or Arlie for code or to write a file that exports to my game If someone can do it with the info available I'll help them on our end but if not the game will just play with generated rookies until we make a college game of our own.

BBCF has an HTML player card export utility. All my program does is to read these html files and convert BBCF ratings to the FOF ratings needed for the draft file. I don't know if you would want your program to read these files or rely on a utility like mine, but either way the difficulty is going to be getting good statistics on the BBCF players. It takes about 15 minutes on my computer to generate player cards for the whole BBCF universe. Making 20 draft classes for FOF took me about 2 days.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Send it to me. I'm not proud. I'm just cheap.

I guess I listen to Clark Howard too much.

So do you have a 1 year old disposable razor too?

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Send it to me. I'm not proud. I'm just cheap.

I guess I listen to Clark Howard too much.

I understand. I can justify $25 much more then $35, to myself. I just have a hard time paying too much for a game. That is why I only have two 360 games over the two years I have had it, and one of those was free.

[JetsIn06]

There should just be a skip intro button on the site. The flash is cool for people who are just discovering it, but to me it's now unbearable sitting through the whole thing.

Skip intro will work wonders.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by JetsIn06

There should just be a skip intro button on the site. The flash is cool for people who are just discovering it, but to me it's now unbearable sitting through the whole thing.

Skip intro will work wonders.

There is a menu of options at the bottom...

[Anthony]

uhhhh...all you have to do is select the "Wolverine Studios" link on the bottom of the page to go to the home page.


how long have you people been using the internet?

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

OH WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF

If this actually happens I will buy the game no matter what just to support the effort. Even if it sucks, guys, let's encourage this so that it can be improved (at least if this thrills you anywhere near as much as it does me).

Also COLLEGE GAME RIGHT NOW PLZ OMG

so....you must have like 10 or so copies of MF based on the above...

edit: never mind pumpy beat me to it

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

so....you must have like 10 or so copies of MF based on the above...

edit: never mind pumpy beat me to it

AND I responded to it.

[JetsIn06]

Doh.

Didn't see those. :o

[JimboJ]

Gary- great new!!

If I could give you just one piece of advice... above all things, please please please please please please please just make the AI smart. That goes for in game coaching as well as GM. If your resources are limited, and its a choice between adding more features and making the AI smarter, please choose the latter. I would rather the game have 4 features that work correctly than 100 that are done half-assed.

Sorry for the rant, but I am just so sick of developers saying "But programming AI is difficult....."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JetsIn06

Doh.

Didn't see those. :o

Yeah, that's part of the problem. If there was a link a bit further up the page, people would know that the option was available to jump forward. With it being at the bottom of the page, people often don't know it's there, especially those who don't always maximize their web browser window.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Danny

If you want to skip the flash page, you can bookmark http://www.wolverinestudios.com/index.php instead. I think the site does a good job of displaying information and the flash is there more to attract people who are unfamiliar with the company and games

Ha. If that stupid flash intro is responsible for selling even ONE GAME I'll make solecismic.com my home page for the next month.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm amazed that this thread has devolved into a critique of the wolverine studios homepage already...wait...no i'm not. this is FOFC after all.

seriously...you realize in the time you spent coming here to post and gripe about this you could have already watched the flash intro and been through to the site? in the grand scheme of things compared to say...famine in Africa or STD's, or teenage pregnancy, or the number of people in America living below the poverty line, it's pretty minor, hmm?

do people really get THAT riled up about this stuff? or is it just a case of the internet being an "instant gratification" and consequence-free, no-forethought-needed type medium that makes people go off on things that really don't matter?*

If you had to sit down and write a letter to Gary and tell him that you were displeased with the flash intro, what % of you are actually so bothered by it that you would take that effort?

*and yes, I realize my diatribe could be seen to be in this light. I'm fully aware of the irony.

[Anthony]

that's why i always say if you had to pay to post on the internet, this would be a whole 'nother ballgame. it's free to post and costs nothing to share opinions, so people do it where they otherwise wouldn't.

just hit the link on the bottom and skip it if you want. it's internet 101 that there's a link *somewhere* on the page to go straight to the homepage, "skip" button or not.

all this nonsense bickering does is validate one man's opinion that a minimalistic approach to things - to websites to game interfaces - is the best approach. and it's not.

[Pumpy Tudors]

cowboy up

[BigDawg]

AWSOME !!!

I ready to send my money today. From a guy who use to have a part time job playing FBPRO I waited a looooong time for something that was even close to it. I use to spend hell 2-3 hours a day in the play editor so this is great news for me.

I even plan to start a league of only former fbpro guys...LOL

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Subby

Ha. If that stupid flash intro is responsible for selling even ONE GAME I'll make solecismic.com my home page for the next month.

I'd load up solecismic.com then.

If "responsible" means they keep going through the site because they see that and eventually buy it, I'd be shocked if at least one person doesn't fit that bill.

In addition I'd be willing to bet that more people are turned off by the Solecismic page and end up NOT buying the product because of it than they are by this flash animation.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'd load up solecismic.com then.

If "responsible" means they keep going through the site because they see that and eventually buy it, I'd be shocked if at least one person doesn't fit that bill.

In addition I'd be willing to bet that more people are turned off by the Solecismic page and end up NOT buying the product because of it than they are by this flash animation.

You are 100% correct. I have friends that i've tried to get into FOF, but look at the site and say no thanks.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'd load up solecismic.com then.

If "responsible" means they keep going through the site because they see that and eventually buy it, I'd be shocked if at least one person doesn't fit that bill.

In addition I'd be willing to bet that more people are turned off by the Solecismic page and end up NOT buying the product because of it than they are by this flash animation.

No fucking chance someone has bought the game based on anything related to that flash page which a) sucks and b) takes forever to load.

That intro page is the flash equivalent of the solecismic.com home page.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Subby

No fucking chance someone has bought the game based on anything related to that flash page. Which a) sucks and b) takes forever to load.

That intro page is the flash equivalent of the solecismic.com home page.

*shurg*... some of us don't have the caviar standards that you have ...

I think it's fine and nice and I can see it being the difference between some people clicking through or just moving on to another site.

[Subby]

Have you read this thread? Numerous posters have agreed that it sucks. People want to get to the information...why make them wait?

Especially for...that.

[astrosfan64]

Yep, these are the same people who think a spreadsheet is the best way to play a game.

[Ben E Lou]

Not to mention the whole "I clicked on that link at work and cheers and whistles started coming out of my computer" thing.

The "skip" and "sound off" links need to be at the top. Period.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Subby

Have you read this thread? Numerous posters have agreed that it sucks. People want to get to the information...why make them wait?

Especially for...that.

Most of the people that hate it are the ones that would prefer that it be a spreadsheet when the go to the page.


There are a chunk of people around here that lash out at anything involving graphics that take away from data being on the screen. However, that does not fit (imo) the majority of the potential customer base. I think it's a smart move by Wolverine to try and spruce up the site to make it fit with modern standards on the web/in games.

Maybe you can nitpick on the exact flash animation, but it's fine to me.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Maybe you can nitpick on the exact flash animation, but it's fine to me.

I'm not nitpicking. It actually sucks.

Making me wait to get information about your game is annoying. Why do that?

I love graphics - I am the anti-skydog in that respect. As long as they serve a useful purpose.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Subby

I'm not nitpicking. It actually sucks.

Making me wait to get information about your game is annoying. Why do that?

I love graphics - I am the anti-skydog in that respect. As long as they serve a useful purpose.

FWIW I do think there should be a "Skip Intro" button. That seems to be the easy solution to me and pretty standard with Flash pages.

[st.cronin]

I think that's a bad page, too. When I get flash, I don't look for a button, I usually just browse away as fast as possible.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Subby

I love graphics - I am the anti-skydog in that respect. As long as they serve a useful purpose.

When have I ever said I don't like graphics? I don't like extra clicks and I don't like superfluous sound. I have no problem with graphics.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Subby

I'm not nitpicking. It actually sucks.

Making me wait to get information about your game is annoying. Why do that?

I love graphics - I am the anti-skydog in that respect. As long as they serve a useful purpose.

i don't like wade moore, i damn you to a life of scrotum punches for making me agree with him.


the flash animation (oh jeezus why are we talking about this when an awesome game has been announced??? ) in and of itself isn't going to sell any games. what it's gonna do is show that this company can make a game that involves more than just a spreadsheet looking interface, that it's on top of basic website design unlike other sites that still think it's 1995. one approach is to go the minimalist route and say "we don't need any bells and whistles, we're confident once you try the game you'll love it". if everything took that approach, the movie 300 would consist of a bunch of greek guys throwing spears at some persians. the end. people want to be entertained. they want presentation.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

When have I ever said I don't like graphics? I don't like extra clicks and I don't like superfluous sound. I have no problem with graphics.

SkyDog (1:20:25 PM): MAN I FUCKING HATE GRAPHICS
Chris Shue (1:20:49 PM): what say you?
Chris Shue (1:20:56 PM): what's wrong with graphics?
SkyDog (1:20:59 PM): THEY MAKE ME ANGRY!!!!1
Chris Shue (1:21:12 PM): Calm down. Sometimes they serve a functional useful purpose.
SkyDog (1:21:26 PM): WHERE IS MY FUCKING INFLATABLE DOLPHIN???!
Chris Shue (1:21:40 PM): ummmm...
SkyDog (1:21:40 PM): I am wearing patriotic undies!!!
Chris Shue (1:21:48 PM): ummmm...
SkyDog (1:21:51 PM): DIE GRAPHICS DIE
Chris Shue puts on wizard hat and robe
SkyDog has left chat

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Subby

SkyDog (1:20:25 PM): MAN I FUCKING HATE GRAPHICS
Chris Shue (1:20:49 PM): what say you?
Chris Shue (1:20:56 PM): what's wrong with graphics?
SkyDog (1:20:59 PM): THEY MAKE ME ANGRY!!!!1
Chris Shue (1:21:12 PM): Calm down. Sometimes they serve a functional useful purpose.
SkyDog (1:21:26 PM): WHERE IS MY FUCKING INFLATABLE DOLPHIN???!
Chris Shue (1:21:40 PM): ummmm...
SkyDog (1:21:40 PM): I am wearing patriotic undies!!!
Chris Shue (1:21:48 PM): ummmm...
SkyDog (1:21:51 PM): DIE GRAPHICS DIE
Chris Shue puts on wizard hat and robe
SkyDog has left chat

[Bee]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think that's a bad page, too. When I get flash, I don't look for a button, I usually just browse away as fast as possible.

Same here.

As far as the subby/wade discussion...I'd expect he loses more sales than he gains using the flash page.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Subby

I'm not nitpicking. It actually sucks.

Making me wait to get information about your game is annoying. Why do that?

I love graphics - I am the anti-skydog in that respect. As long as they serve a useful purpose.

I just realized something. I agree with subby. I do think the flash is pretty bad by today's standards. But, with that being said I think it is better to have a site that is at least attempting to be modern, instead of a frame based spredsheet.

With that being said, there should be a skip intro button and a mute button.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I was not particularly happy with the intro on the Wolverine Studios page, and I hope that it is redesigned so that there's a "skip intro" button on it.

[wade moore]

Oh - and I am on board with the sound thing. I don't think any pages should default to sound on. However, I didn't even notice because I have sound muted altogether on my work machine.

[Bee]

wade,

Hell Atlantic is agreeing with you. What more evidence do you need? Just admit you're wrong.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Bee

Same here.

As far as the subby/wade discussion...I'd expect he loses more sales than he gains using the flash page.

I like the flash. I just happen to think it is placed in the wrong spot. Subby makes a great point of getting to the content faster. A number of new users may be going to the site for other games.

That flash animation might be better suited as the header of the main page to let consumers know that it is coming soon. That way, the users can still get to their content and choose to ignore it if they had already seen it. And as far as sound, yeah, there needs to be an option to turn it off.

Other than that, I don't think someone loses sales because of a flash intro or even the minimalistic approach. People lose sales if it is difficult to figure out how to purchase the game, but if the game is kick-ass and you have to spend an extra few clicks to get there, I think people will sacrifice those extra clicks to get to the game.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Bee

wade,

Hell Atlantic is agreeing with you. What more evidence do you need? Just admit you're wrong.

This is a pretty compelling argument...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

I like the flash. I just happen to think it is placed in the wrong spot. Subby makes a great point of getting to the content faster. A number of new users may be going to the site for other games.

That flash animation might be better suited as the header of the main page to let consumers know that it is coming soon. That way, the users can still get to their content and choose to ignore it if they had already seen it. And as far as sound, yeah, there needs to be an option to turn it off.

Other than that, I don't think someone loses sales because of a flash intro or even the minimalistic approach. People lose sales if it is difficult to figure out how to purchase the game, but if the game is kick-ass and you have to spend an extra few clicks to get there, I think people will sacrifice those extra clicks to get to the game.

'tis true. instead of a dedicated intro page, he should just make it a banner at the top of his page like some of the ads we get here at FOFC. to be honest banners have come a long way and some of the animations being done these days are worthy of a momentary glance. it'd be incorporated into website better.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Subby

SkyDog (1:20:25 PM): MAN I FUCKING HATE GRAPHICS
Chris Shue (1:20:49 PM): what say you?
Chris Shue (1:20:56 PM): what's wrong with graphics?
SkyDog (1:20:59 PM): THEY MAKE ME ANGRY!!!!1
Chris Shue (1:21:12 PM): Calm down. Sometimes they serve a functional useful purpose.
SkyDog (1:21:26 PM): WHERE IS MY FUCKING INFLATABLE DOLPHIN???!
Chris Shue (1:21:40 PM): ummmm...
SkyDog (1:21:40 PM): I am wearing patriotic undies!!!
Chris Shue (1:21:48 PM): ummmm...
SkyDog (1:21:51 PM): DIE GRAPHICS DIE
Chris Shue puts on wizard hat and robe
SkyDog has left chat

winner winner chicken dinner

[MJ4H]

DOLA

no offense skydog