Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[mckerney]

[JonInMiddleGA]

Unless PS4 gets basically no games worth a damn and Xbone gets basically everything worth playing as an exclusive ...

Game. Over.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Who else thinks Sony had this priced at $499... And waited until MS came out wih their price before slashing it in the evening?

A friend in the industry tells me his sources were telling him (so, yeah, as hearsay as it gets) that Sony had contingency plans at $299 and $399 with the idea that they'd undercut Microsoft whichever way.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's an amazing game of cat and mouse. Putting on my tinfoil hat here, I really think that Sony strategically leaked out info to their partners to try to convince MS that they were going to start at a $449-499 price point.

I could see that. If my industry friend is right that they had $299/399 as the possible targets, if intrigue like that could get Microsoft to announce at something higher, it allows Sony to announce at $399 instead of $299 and reduce their losses on the hardware.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Maybe I missed this mentioned in the thread somewhere, but Bethesda/Zenimax announcement was Elder Scrolls Online, PC+NextGen consoles only

Assuming this is your standard MMO model with monthly/annual fees, I have exactly zero interest whatsoever.
Bethsoft.com - News

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Just pre-ordered my PS4.

Interesting. Now while I will get a PS4 eventually, I've learned that buying a console on launch day is not a winning endeavor.

[mckerney]

This was the new game reveal today that interested me the most.



I hope that it sticks to just fighting other survivors and no zombie/infected types and that it makes it to PC as well.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Interesting. Now while I will get a PS4 eventually, I've learned that buying a console on launch day is not a winning endeavor.

I put in an order on Amazon in a burst of irrational exuberance and then canceled it. I'm still going to get one pretty close to launch, but the plan right now is to wait until after Christmas.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

A friend in the industry tells me his sources were telling him (so, yeah, as hearsay as it gets) that Sony had contingency plans at $299 and $399 with the idea that they'd undercut Microsoft whichever way.



I could see that. If my industry friend is right that they had $299/399 as the possible targets, if intrigue like that could get Microsoft to announce at something higher, it allows Sony to announce at $399 instead of $299 and reduce their losses on the hardware.

Brilliant by Sony if true.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I put in an order on Amazon in a burst of irrational exuberance and then canceled it. I'm still going to get one pretty close to launch, but the plan right now is to wait until after Christmas.

Makes sense. My plan for any gaming system is to wait for some titles that I actually like. Infamous: 2nd Son as a launch title would move the needle for me, but it's just one game. I'll probably wait til World Cup 2014 comes out, or NCAA 15 at the latest.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Just pre-ordered my PS4.

I did as well. Pretty funny summary line by Bill Harris.

Dubious Quality: Sony E3 Presser

That was the easiest pre-order decision I've ever made.

Good luck with all your bullshit, Microsoft.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Makes sense. My plan for any gaming system is to wait for some titles that I actually like. Infamous: 2nd Son as a launch title would move the needle for me, but it's just one game. I'll probably wait til World Cup 2014 comes out, or NCAA 15 at the latest.

It's not a matter of waiting for games so much.

It's a matter of realizing I should probably wait and see if I get any gift cards or whatever for birthday/Christmas (which are 3 weeks apart) that I can use to subsidize the out-of-pocket costs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I should add that I went out of my way to preorder from Gamestop just to support them and give MS an added middle finger for their used game stance.

[DeToxRox]

I pre-ordered on Amazon because I had $140 in gift cards I never got around to using. After getting their warranty I am out $190. I can handle that.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I should add that I went out of my way to preorder from Gamestop just to support them and give MS an added middle finger for their used game stance.

LOL... when have you ever cared about MS or the Xbox brand?

[mckerney]

Aaahhh, Mad Max game is by the developers of Just Cause 2.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

LOL... when have you ever cared about MS or the Xbox brand?

I can see the scene in Redmond. "If we've lost Mizzou B-ball fan, we've lost Middle America."

[Mota]

Well, this holiday season I will choose to BUY my games instead of licensing them. My household has been an Xbox house for the past 12 years but methinks that will be changing very soon.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I can see the scene in Redmond. "If we've lost Mizzou B-ball fan, we've lost Middle America."

I'm in total shock he chose a ps4 over the xb1.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I'm in total shock he chose a ps4 over the xb1.

Next up is Texas worrying that they'll be in the red this year because MBBF didn't purchase Longhorns season tickets.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I'm in total shock he chose a ps4 over the xb1.

I'd be shocked if many people made the opposite decision. Remember when Sony had an overpriced console with no real selling points on launch? Me too. Amazing how quickly things change.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd be shocked if many people made the opposite decision. Remember when Sony had an overpriced console with no real selling points on launch? Me too. Amazing how quickly things change.

Quickly.. as in over 6 and a 1/2 years ago?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I'm in total shock he chose a ps4 over the xb1.

I gave MBBF as much shit as anybody over his willful head-in-the-sand PS3 predictions, but I'm probably with him on this one.

As much as I loved Xbox and 360, I can't see getting an Xbox One over a PS4, and I'm not even sure I'll own both - which would be the first time since I was old enough to buy my own game consoles that I haven't owned every piece of hardware from a given generation. Bought PS2 basically at launch and Dreamcast around the same time (since that was roughly when I started working), and got Xbox, GameCube, Wii and 360 at launch. Got a PS3 about a year later.

This time around, I got Wii U at launch, and I'll be getting PS4 close to launch. Barring a radical change of hearts and minds in Redmond, I can't see myself buying an Xbox One.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah.. considering all the Sony-taunting I've done to SA (I STILL think Vita is pretty much DOA, unless the rising tide of the PS4 lifts this particular boat).. I am honestly shocked that I'm going to be ending my string of Xbox fanboy ism and going back to the Sony-side.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Yeah.. considering all the Sony-taunting I've done to SA (I STILL think Vita is pretty much DOA, unless the rising tide of the PS4 lifts this particular boat).. I am honestly shocked that I'm going to be ending my string of Xbox fanboy ism and going back to the Sony-side.

I don't think there's any shame if someone like Mizzourah wants to hold out and purchase a X1 console. Honestly, that's the tough decision. The easy decision at this point is to purchase a PS4.

I struggled with the cost of the PS3 on launch despite brand loyalty. I can see why some of the people who like the 360 feel betrayed right now. It's not a good feeling after you invest yourself into a previous console and develop some sense of loyalty towards a company.

[SirFozzie]

My history:

NES-Super NES-Genesis-Dreamcast (yeah, I was a bit of a consoleslut at the time)-Playstation-Xbox-Xbox 360..

Now it looks like PS4 will be next on the list.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I gave MBBF as much shit as anybody over his willful head-in-the-sand PS3 predictions, but I'm probably with him on this one.

As much as I loved Xbox and 360, I can't see getting an Xbox One over a PS4, and I'm not even sure I'll own both - which would be the first time since I was old enough to buy my own game consoles that I haven't owned every piece of hardware from a given generation. Bought PS2 basically at launch and Dreamcast around the same time (since that was roughly when I started working), and got Xbox, GameCube, Wii and 360 at launch. Got a PS3 about a year later.

This time around, I got Wii U at launch, and I'll be getting PS4 close to launch. Barring a radical change of hearts and minds in Redmond, I can't see myself buying an Xbox One.

The thing about MBBF he's only Sony and nothing he says in this thread means squat to me.

I own an x360 and ps3 and don't care who buys what. There is no way in hell I'd buy either one on launch unless there are a ton of my type of games releasing on just one console. I definitely wouldn't just because of E3.

To each their own though.. I enjoyed the ps2 very much and likewise, the x360.

My point with MBBF is the ps4 could be $999 and the xb1 $299 and he would find some way to spin it so the ps4 was a better buy.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I don't think there's any shame if someone like Mizzourah wants to hold out and purchase a X1 console. Honestly, that's the tough decision. The easy decision at this point is to purchase a PS4.

I struggled with the cost of the PS3 on launch despite brand loyalty. I can see why some of the people who like the 360 feel betrayed right now. It's not a good feeling after you invest yourself into a previous console and develop some sense of loyalty towards a company.

I'm not holding out for anything.. but I don't base my decisions on a video game conference. Games are the biggest seller of a system for me.

I will go where the games are, no matter who makes the console.

I do like the price of the ps4 though.. but I drop $100 on a family dinner at Harry J's steakhouse.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The thing about MBBF he's only Sony and nothing he says in this thread means squat to me.

I own an x360 and ps3 and don't care who buys what. There is no way in hell I'd buy either one on launch unless there are a ton of my type of games releasing on just one console. I definitely wouldn't just because of E3.

To each their own though.. I enjoyed the ps2 very much and likewise, the x360.

My point with MBBF is the ps4 could be $999 and the xb1 $299 and he would find some way to spin it so the ps4 was a better buy.

I agree with this, but not your next post. Yeah, if there were 20 system seller games for the xbox and 0. For Sony, the xbox still may ave a chance. But there is not.

As of now, this generation is OVER. I say as of now. . . Because MS could still backtrack on everything, including the price. (Say adding 3 years of gold in the purchase for example).

Still, this thing is over right now. Sony will dominate this generation. MS really screwed up on this one.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I struggled with the cost of the PS3 on launch despite brand loyalty. I can see why some of the people who like the 360 feel betrayed right now. It's not a good feeling after you invest yourself into a previous console and develop some sense of loyalty towards a company.

It's not about brand loyalty, at least for me. Since getting to the point where I COULD get my own systems, I've owned everything. It's more about what my vision for the future of gaming is, and what companies are remaining true to that vision. Nintendo haven't been seduced (much) by the idea of the console as a wonder-everything-box. They're doing goofy things in how they approach games, but they're approaching games as the end product, not as the inconvenience they have to deal with to make the console profitable.

Sony...I'm not going to say that they wouldn't do what Microsoft are doing if they thought they could get away with it. I think they absolutely would. But I think they got their dick caught in the meat grinder last time, and that painful memory combined with the backlash against Microsoft this time have combined to tell them that, to crib a line from The Lord of the Rings, "it is not this day." So, y'know, as long as their product is going to stay within the boundaries of what I'm willing to accept, I'm willing to buy it.

Xbox 360 started to stray from those boundaries when they started piling all sorts of non-gaming 'services' onto Xbox Live and charging everybody more for access to them even if the access was worthless (like, I can't use HBO Go or ESPN, to name a couple). The changes for Xbox One are just beyond the pale. They're Humphrey Bogart to my Ingrid Bergman. Where they're going, I can't follow. What they're doing, I won't be any part of.

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The thing about MBBF he's only Sony and nothing he says in this thread means squat to me.

Fair. Just saying that despite the fact that I gave him shit last time around, I can't say he's not right this time. I mean, maybe that's a broken-clock thing, or maybe it's that Microsoft have gotten their dick stuck in the meat grinder so deeply it's going to be amusing to see how much of it they have left when/if they finally extricate themselves. The Xbox One will still sell units, of course. Even the Saturn, which completely shat the bed thanks to Sega's missteps, still managed a 3% market share in the US in its generation. Xbox One won't come close to a share that abysmal, if for no other reason than that Nintendo decided not to play the bleeding-edge-hardware game.

But they're at near parity with the Wii domestically (it's Europe and especially Japan where they've got their ass kicked), and that's just not going to be the case this time around unless they either get super-aggressive on pricing in a hurry, find an exclusive game that absolutely nobody can live without, or walk back the stuff that's caused a market uproar. Maybe even 2 out of 3.

They're entering the next generation with 38% of the US market share and a 27% share of Europe. I'd bet Europe's going to tell them to piss off at least in part because the focus on the Xbox One feature set - the TV stuff - is probably not going to be transnational. You're going to see the bulk of that in the United States. Add the price on top of that and the used games/connectivity stuff almost won't matter.

The US, I don't think they're going to tank quite as badly as I see happening in Europe, but I definitely think there's going to be giveback on that 38%. I think unless Nintendo create some serious buzz tomorrow, Sony's well positioned to steal from both Nintendo's market share (just because Wii U is off to a rough start) and Microsoft's. Especially Microsoft's. Microsoft's at 38% to Sony's 24% domestically, and I can absolutely see that flipping with Sony also eroding Nintendo's market share. Sony had a 64% market share in the PSX generation, and while I don't think they'll get that high, I can absolutely see 50-55% as their upside this time around.

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

My point with MBBF is the ps4 could be $999 and the xb1 $299 and he would find some way to spin it so the ps4 was a better buy.

There was plenty of that going on in the 360/PS3 gen. Not necessarily from MBBF himself, but there were definitely Sony fanboys who spun the $200 price differential between PS3's high end and 360's high end into "Advantage: Sony."

[Izulde]

My history for non-handheld consoles: NES/SNES, Genesis/Playstation, Sega CD/Playstation 2, Dreamcast, XBox, Gamecube/Playstation 3, XBox 360, Wii (the last of these I played maybe twice)

This gen, if it's any, it'll be PS4, and I was leaning that way even before the XBone's shenanigans. I only very rarely play the 360, but use my PS3 on a daily basis, though admittedly at least 75% of that is Netflix/Hulu+.

Short of XBone getting a Jade Empire 2 or something like that I'm completely off the MS train.

[RainMaker]

I guess I find it humorous that MBBF is bashing Microsoft for all the stuff he praised Sony for doing last console cycle. Brand loyalty past the age of 14 is just so bizarre to me.

[RainMaker]

I haven't decided which to go with yet, but I'm leaning heavily toward the PS4. The $100 is a big difference considering I don't play console games as much as I did. Plus I feel a little burned with the RROD from my last Xbox experience. Things change quickly though, so I'll keep an open mind.

I do think the used games thing is overblown, along with the machine checking in online. But it points to a problem that Microsoft has. They build products that they want you to buy, not products that consumers want to buy. It's an arrogance that they feel entitled to your business.

Still not fully in the "I heart Sony" yet. They've shown that they could give two shits about their customers over the years too. And I'd prefer to see the actual beef of what they are offering instead of a great reactive marketing campaign. But as of now, they are on top and barring some jarring changes, will probably be the console of choice in my home.

[RainMaker]

One other thing, I was actually disappointed in the Dead Rising 3 trailer. I sort of liked the campy theme to the previous games, even if they needed some major improvements. I hope they don't go down the dark and serious path that the trailer implied because then they'd be just another game.

[Mota]

The thing is, all of Microsoft's current faults CAN be easily corrected if they feel they're backed in a corner (which seems to be pretty obvious that they are right now).

1-2 months from now, a MS exec comes up and says "we are a customer friendly company and we listened to our customers ..." and everything that Sony announced can be mimmicked.

[Matthean]

xboxdone.com

[Butter]

I'm sure my kids will want one of these, but we'll probably wait another year in the cycle before jumping on the bandwagon. And Microsoft is highly unlikely to win this one, at least for me. A $500 console with used game restrictions? Yeah, sign me up.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I guess I find it humorous that MBBF is bashing Microsoft for all the stuff he praised Sony for doing last console cycle. Brand loyalty past the age of 14 is just so bizarre to me.

Plus 1. That being said, Sony is making the better moves this generation. I pre-ordered both systems but I will probably cancel my Xbox order closer to launch unless Microsoft announces some more moves. But, I think I will eventually own both systems due to exclusives I like on each.

[Fidatelo]

I'm as big an MS fan as anybody but they are DOA unless they make some major changes between now and launch. Even then, I think the damage may already be done.

[CraigSca]

I only use consoles for sports gaming. That being said I'm leaning in the PS4 direction because of the Show, but the agreement with EASports and Microsoft concerns me.

I don't rent/re-sell or buy used games, nor does having an internet connection concern me. But...I don't have a large area in front of my monitor to take advantage of Kinect and I also like saving $100.

Looks like it's PS4 for me, but there is no rush until the Show 14, NCAA 15 and FIFA World Cup come out.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This would appear to complete the trifecta. Region-free gaming will remain the same as on the PS3.

Yoshida: 'PS4 is region free' [update] | Joystiq

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I only use consoles for sports gaming. That being said I'm leaning in the PS4 direction because of the Show, but the agreement with EASports and Microsoft concerns me.

I'm hoping just the opposite. I hope that EA Sports remains so close to MS that it opens up the possibility of Sega reentering the market on the PS3 or another publisher coming in to the picture. But that's merely a hope at this point.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I only use consoles for sports gaming. That being said I'm leaning in the PS4 direction because of the Show, but the agreement with EASports and Microsoft concerns me.

I don't rent/re-sell or buy used games, nor does having an internet connection concern me. But...I don't have a large area in front of my monitor to take advantage of Kinect and I also like saving $100.

Looks like it's PS4 for me, but there is no rush until the Show 14, NCAA 15 and FIFA World Cup come out.

What agreement is that?

EA can't tie themselves too closely to MS so that if MS starts losing market share EA gets hurt...

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I guess I find it humorous that MBBF is bashing Microsoft for all the stuff he praised Sony for doing last console cycle. Brand loyalty past the age of 14 is just so bizarre to me.

Why? I imagine there are brands or business you're loyal to because they treat you well. That's true of virtually everybody. If you don't develop some kind of brand loyalty, I think there's something wrong with you.

I chose a Dreamcast over PS because I believe then and believe now it was a superior system. Sony just did a better job cultivating games and developers and locked up enough exclusives to kill the Dreamcast. I finally got a PS just to play some of the sports games I wanted, and it was a buggy POS. It crashed 50% of the time playing NCAA basketball, and I would have chucked it out the window if I hadn't learned that 90% of the time I could recover from the crash if I opened the CD enclosure while it was running and close it again.

I chose Xbox over the PS2 by default. I wasn't crazy about MS or the way they were running things, but I wasn't going to touch PS again after my experience with the first one. I was happy enough (despite a couple of RRODs) to choose the 360 over PS3, although Sony's pricing and other errors made the decision pretty easy as well.

I'll bet I sit this one out for a while. I can't imagine getting either system in the next 24 months. I'm assuming we'll still see some games for the 360 for a couple of years, but if not I'm satisfied with the current games I have and what's in the pipeline. Right now I imagine I would give the PS4 the nod over Xbox because MS is doing even more things that drive me crazy.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

What agreement is that?

EA can't tie themselves too closely to MS so that if MS starts losing market share EA gets hurt...

Hard to say, actually, as I think the agreement is still moving.

Just researched it further and I only see an announcement for "exclusive" FIFA 14 Ultimate Team content, which I couldn't care less about. Reading that, I don't think it should be a big deal.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Don't forget.....



Starting in five minutes.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Why? I imagine their are brands or business you're loyal to because they treat you well. That's true of virtually everybody. If you don't develop some kind of brand loyalty, I think there's something wrong with you.

Yeah, the brand loyalty comment was pretty baffling. Brand loyalty is a huge part of our economy. People buy cars all the time based on the brand. Appliances are a huge brand loyalty segment. Even electronics such as computers, tablets, TV's and, yes, video game consoles all fall into a buyer loyalty segment.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Hard to say, actually, as I think the agreement is still moving.

Just researched it further and I only see an announcement for "exclusive" FIFA 14 Ultimate Team content, which I couldn't care less about. Reading that, I don't think it should be a big deal.

Yeah - I preordered FIFA13 at Gamestop to get the Ultimate Team boosters and found that I can't really devote the time to playing that AND playing Manager Mode careers, and I have much more fun with SP careers.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I haven't decided which to go with yet, but I'm leaning heavily toward the PS4. The $100 is a big difference considering I don't play console games as much as I did. Plus I feel a little burned with the RROD from my last Xbox experience. Things change quickly though, so I'll keep an open mind.

I do think the used games thing is overblown, along with the machine checking in online. But it points to a problem that Microsoft has. They build products that they want yuou to buy, not products that consumers want to buy. It's an arrogance that they feel entitled to your business.

Still not fully in the "I heart Sony" yet. They've shown that they could give two shits about their customers over the years too. And I'd prefer to see the actual beef of what they are offering instead of a great reactive marketing campaign. But as of now, they are on top and barring some jarring changes, will probably be the console of choice in my home.

I am not usually a slippery slope type of guy. In this case? I am.

Simply put, everything MS and the publishers agreed to takes rights away from gamers. I do not care if you do not rent games, if you do not buy used, if you have the worlds greatest internet connection that will never go down once, or if you have no video game playing friends who you care about giving a game to.

Sony went from number one by a mile to number three because they forgot to take care of their customers. The hubris they showed with the PS3 launch still amazes me. The fact some fanboys jumped in and were blind to what was the train wreck baffled me and still does.

MS is making what Sony did look pretty damned minor. They learned a hard lesson and recovered. MS is going to learn the same lesson. The only prayer they have now is to back off of everything, and I mean everything.

I have brand loyalty. Hell, I came really close to pitching into Jim's kickstarter page even though I am not a board game player. If he announced the next fof tomorrow and said no feature list or screenshots would be available before launch, I would order it without thinking.

But MS has gone too far for me. Anything short of them backing down from all of this, means they have lost me as an XBox customer. Considering I have always been a pretty strong MS supporter, I would not have believed my decision would come down to this.

I agree with sack, Sony will jump back to 50 percent or more share. It will get even worse if MS doesnt back down. (They will back down, it is just a matter of when)

[SackAttack]

Saw this last night, but was too close to sleep to respond. Wanted to do so now while I'm thinking about it.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I guess I find it humorous that MBBF is bashing Microsoft for all the stuff he praised Sony for doing last console cycle.

The thing is, I'm sitting here thinking about it, and I can find exactly one commonality between Sony's moves last time and Microsoft's moves this time: pricing themselves out of the impulse buy market. Sony didn't restrict used game sales in 2006. Sony didn't require an online connection with a daily required check-in to activate and play games in 2006. Sony didn't create a system that seemed to be focused on TV and services with gaming as an afterthought in 2006.

Sony made a boatload of their own mistakes in the last console generation, make no mistake, but the hubris they displayed was of a very different nature than what we're seeing out of Microsoft this go-round. For all the crap MBBF deservedly took 7 years ago, there really isn't anything besides the insane price where you can compare what he said then to what he's saying now.

I think maybe the part that should give you cause for reflection is that some of us who were his most vocal critics seven years ago are, this time around, levelling some of the same criticisms at Microsoft he is. That doesn't mean MBBF isn't being hypocritical, but I think it does mean that the concerns aren't as easily dismissed as "there goes that MBBF again."

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Brand loyalty past the age of 14 is just so bizarre to me.

Nah. Brand loyalty is a reasonable concept. If a business does right by its customers, why wouldn't the customers continue to patronize the business?

A better term for MBBF and the various other partisans of the console wars is probably "brand zealotry." THAT, yeah. Bizarre. Being loyal to a brand that's done right by you is reasonable. Being loyal to a brand regardless of the ramifications because you've tied your identity so closely to it is bizarre.

[Passacaglia]

I don't think it's that bizarre. It's not perfectly rational, sure. But it's pretty common, and explainable -- when faced with a decision between two competitors like that, people do whatever it takes to make themselves feel comfortable with the decision they've made.