2023 NFL Regular Season Thread

[Lathum]

FFS....

[Atocep]

Luckily the Bears should be in position to draft Caleb Williams or Drake Maye if Fields doesn't work out.

[Solecismic]

He showed some progress last year, but I'm still in the "Fields will never be an effective NFL quarterback" camp. Nor will Jones, as I watch this debacle unfolding.

It sounds like Dad Williams is eagerly anticipating pulling an Eli of some sort. I thought the NFL handled the Eli situation very poorly, but it had been somewhat of a tradition (Elway did the same, and Jim Kelly did the USFL thing).

[Lathum]

This is unwatchable

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

He showed some progress last year, but I'm still in the "Fields will never be an effective NFL quarterback" camp. Nor will Jones, as I watch this debacle unfolding.

It sounds like Dad Williams is eagerly anticipating pulling an Eli of some sort. I thought the NFL handled the Eli situation very poorly, but it had been somewhat of a tradition (Elway did the same, and Jim Kelly did the USFL thing).

Daniel Jones is a guy you have to scheme around and that results in running a very conservative offense that relies on him or someone else to bust a big play every now and then. He's a great example of a qb that gets coaches and front offices fired. He's just good enough to give you some hope but he's not good enough to win you very many games.

The Giants aren't close to contending and if their record last year reflected how they actually played Jones wouldn't have gotten a new contract. It'll be a miracle if Daboll survives Jones' extension.

For nearly 3 quarters Fields looked improved over last year. I want to see some all-22 breakdown, but he was accurate and was hitting guys in stride the few chances he had before shit went sideways. He wasn't doing that last year. Even when accurate he was awful with ball placement. Today, he was awful as soon as they Packers took an 18 point lead and he started forcing throws.

I'm curious to see how much of today was on Getsy's playcalling and how much was Fields.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Atocep

For nearly 3 quarters Fields looked improved over last year. I want to see some all-22 breakdown, but he was accurate and was hitting guys in stride the few chances he had before shit went sideways. He wasn't doing that last year. Even when accurate he was awful with ball placement. Today, he was awful as soon as they Packers took an 18 point lead and he started forcing throws.

God, the bar is so low.

Keep in mind, "improved" still generated 100 yards in the air and a whole 6 points in the first half. That just doesn't cut it.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This is unwatchable

I strenuously disagree

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

God, the bar is so low.

Keep in mind, "improved" still generated 100 yards in the air and a whole 6 points in the first half. That just doesn't cut it.

In fairness, that was on 12 pass attempts because runs between the tackles are 60% of the offense.

Yes, the bar is low for bears QBs. Jay Cutler is our best qb ever and Johnny Morris, who retired in 1967, leads the franchise in receiving yads.

Based on what we know right now, we're drafting a qb this upcoming draft. Fields needs to clearly establish he's the guy or it's time to move on. If he hasn't established that by midseason it's time to get Bagent some starts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Maybe time for the NFL to come up with some running clock rules, ala high school?

[Solecismic]

I've been trying to come up with an objective system for putting together a cross-era ranking of quarterbacks. I think I've made some progress. As long as I stick to not looking at anyone before the 1974 rule change about receiver contact. Before that, it wasn't the same game at all.

With the Bears, I'd say McMahon by a mile. Both because of numbers and the title. Next is Harbaugh, Kramer, then Trubisky/Orton/Cutler grade out almost the same, but for very different reasons. Fields is ahead of Rex Grossman, though.

I'll also say that in my database, I have McMahon 59th overall.

Among retired players, it's Young, Montana, Brady, Staubach, Manning, but both Rodgers and Mahomes are slightly ahead of Young. This system does not count team wins or titles in any way.

[Solecismic]

Maybe they should let the Giants OL hold to their heart's content the rest of the way. Gotta be Tyrod time now, though. But I think I'm turning off the TV for the night.

Dallas seems to do this a lot - they look utterly unstoppable, and you wonder if this is the year they break through and reach the Super Bowl for the first time in nearly 30 years. And then something happens and they end up with a few strange losses at the worst time.

[miami_fan]

Do you get a lot of respect for taking all the hits if you don't play in the following games because you took all those hits?

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Atocep

For nearly 3 quarters Fields looked improved over last year. I want to see some all-22 breakdown, but he was accurate and was hitting guys in stride the few chances he had before shit went sideways. He wasn't doing that last year. Even when accurate he was awful with ball placement. Today, he was awful as soon as they Packers took an 18 point lead and he started forcing throws.

I'm curious to see how much of today was on Getsy's playcalling and how much was Fields.

You watched a different game than I did. Read this for more insight: https://www.the33rdteam.com/category...justin-fields/

And no Drake Maye, please. I don't want another QB from a non-football school like UNC. I've seen that movie before.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Yes, the bar is low for bears QBs. Jay Cutler is our best qb ever

Originally Posted by Solecismic

With the Bears, I'd say McMahon by a mile. Both because of numbers and the title. Next is Harbaugh, Kramer, then Trubisky/Orton/Cutler grade out almost the same, but for very different reasons. Fields is ahead of Rex Grossman, though.

You're both wrong: it's Jim Miller.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

With the Bears, I'd say McMahon by a mile. Both because of numbers and the title. Next is Harbaugh, Kramer, then Trubisky/Orton/Cutler grade out almost the same, but for very different reasons. Fields is ahead of Rex Grossman, though.

What if you separate good Rex and bad Rex?

[QuikSand]

Most interesting recalibration game of the week, for me, was Rams crushing Seahawks. Our one-season priors said it would go the other way. The longer arc suggested the Rams might be ok, and the Seahawks might be paper seagulls. I don't know what is right, but as a week one data point that's really interesting to me.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

You're both wrong: it's Jim Miller.

I miss that guy.

[albionmoonlight]

To me, it was CIN/CLE

Was that a Week 1/Division Opponent/Bad Weather/Burrow off an Injury kind of fluke game?

Or is CLE better than I thought and CIN (a lot) worse than I thought?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

To me, it was CIN/CLE

Was that a Week 1/Division Opponent/Bad Weather/Burrow off an Injury kind of fluke game?

Or is CLE better than I thought and CIN (a lot) worse than I thought?

yeah, I'm comfortable plugging that in, at least the Cinti side, as a fluke. Cleveland may indeed be better than we thought, particularly on defense, but I'm buying any dip on the Bengals offense, and I reckon nearly anyone would agree there.

[JPhillips]

The Bengals just seemed like they believed their own hype and weren't prepared in any facet of the game yesterday. They'll get better, but if they start 4-4 again they can't count on another 9 game win streak to close out the season.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

You watched a different game than I did. Read this for more insight: https://www.the33rdteam.com/category...justin-fields/

And no Drake Maye, please. I don't want another QB from a non-football school like UNC. I've seen that movie before.

I don't think the article really changes anything or goes against what I said. He was accurate on the throws he made for roughly 3 quarters and from there was awful in every aspect. Accuracy and ball placement were improved over last year. The throws were mostly very conservative though. His first 12 throws were all where thry needed to be, the 2 incompletions he had at that point were a drop by Claypool and a TD saving breakup by Rasul Douglas.

Overall, though, it's not enough. He has to be better and if he doesn't get better quick it's time move on.

As for Maye vs Williams, Trubusky shouldn't come into the equation when evaluating Maye. It's a different coaching staff and he's a different player. PFF had him as the highest graded qb inside the pocket last year, and inside the pocket work tends to be what translates to the NFL. Williams' red flag, other than being another Lincoln Riley qb, is that he does most of his damage outside the pocket on plays he extends.

Right now I prefer Maye, but we also only have a year of film on him so far. The picture should clear up a bit after this year. I think they're both better than the top 3 options in this past draft.

[RainMaker]

I don't think Fields is good, but I still think he's a tough guy to evaluate given the circumstances. The offensive line is horrendous yet again. The Packers got pressure on 51% of the snaps, which is just unreal. Throw in the fact that their coaching staff is one of the worst in the league and it's hard to think of any young QB being able to excel in Chicago (just take a look at how their backups performed last season). I'd put him in the 20-30 range of QBs in the league where he could be good with the right conditions, but is not good enough to overcome bad ones.


With that said, he's not in the top 10 of issues the Bears have. Their coaching staff is horrendous and their GM has been a disaster through 2 seasons. They'll likely be losing 2 of their better players next season (Mooney, Johnson). It's just a bad situation that looks like it'll get worse before it gets better. Even if they win the Caleb Williams sweepstakes.

[Thomkal]

Looks like Disney/Spectrum/Charter reached an agreement on a new cable deal lo and behold 12 hours before Monday Night Football, and we have ESPN channels again.

[albionmoonlight]

Deadlines drive deals

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Atocep

As for Maye vs Williams, Trubusky shouldn't come into the equation when evaluating Maye. It's a different coaching staff and he's a different player. PFF had him as the highest graded qb inside the pocket last year, and inside the pocket work tends to be what translates to the NFL. Williams' red flag, other than being another Lincoln Riley qb, is that he does most of his damage outside the pocket on plays he extends.

Right now I prefer Maye, but we also only have a year of film on him so far. The picture should clear up a bit after this year. I think they're both better than the top 3 options in this past draft.

For me it calls into question the level of competition that QBs like Maye play against. The ACC isn't exactly the SEC which is why a few years ago the Trubisky pick over Watson was just dumb. I see the same possible issue with Maye. It's a crapshoot anyway, but I've seen too much of Fields slow processing to know he is not a franchise QB. I just hope that the Bears don't win too many games and have to give up a ton of draft capital to move into a good draft position for 2024.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

With that said, he's not in the top 10 of issues the Bears have. Their coaching staff is horrendous and their GM has been a disaster through 2 seasons. They'll likely be losing 2 of their better players next season (Mooney, Johnson). It's just a bad situation that looks like it'll get worse before it gets better. Even if they win the Caleb Williams sweepstakes.

Didn't they kind of go empty cupboard the last two seasons, though? Like, I feel they were bad by design and there's still another year or two of roster building to get to some semblance of respectability. Not sure if that's going to work out for them, but there you go.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, I don't think it's fair to shit on Poles at all. He got handed a train wreck, he empty cupboard'd the team, and now he's got a shit ton of cap space, and at least 1, if not 2, high 1st rounders to play with next year.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I miss that guy.

So much hope after the 2001 season, to be buried with the decision to play all home games 3 hours away (though I suppose that was the nearest stadium of appropriate size).

[flere-imsaho]

I agree, however, that the lack of a NFL-quality roster does make it very difficult to evaluate Fields.

[flere-imsaho]

I'm pretty sure that if Miller or Orton had the '85 Bears Defense and Gault + Payton, they'd have had a good shot at a SB title. A ham sandwich at QB could have won the 85 title.

[Solecismic]

More than a third of the time Fields doesn't hand the ball off, the play ends with the ball in his hands. That's a little more than Lamar Jackson and 25% more than Jalen Hurts. Among quarterbacks with more than a season of being a starter, only Jackson, Fields and Tim Tebow are in that territory. That's the same Tebow who had to try baseball after Denver couldn't handle any more of his sub-50% completion percentage.

If you're going to go the Lamar Jackson route, you have to move the chains. Jackson completes more passes. And, maybe just as important, Jackson is sacked on 5.7% of those non-handoff plays and Fields is sacked on 10.2%.

He's amazingly good at making defenders miss, but, as we saw yesterday, he doesn't have a great sense of the rush. If you get to him quickly, you get him. Jackson knows how to handle the rush. All those extra backwards plays, a little less accuracy than Jackson. He's playing Jackson's game, but nowhere near as well.

I'm open to the possibility that the light could turn on, or maybe somehow we can keep blaming his teammates when the cap and the draft ensure they have some talent there - it's not like college. But I think Fields has failed and it's time to move on.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Yeah, I don't think it's fair to shit on Poles at all. He got handed a train wreck, he empty cupboard'd the team, and now he's got a shit ton of cap space, and at least 1, if not 2, high 1st rounders to play with next year.

He used that cap space to sign linebackers, traded the 32nd pick in the draft for a year of Claypool, and had a pretty disastrous 2022 draft. And passing on Jalen Carter after he fell to them will haunt them for years to come. Not to mention how bad this coaching staff has looked.

The cupboard was empty last year (mostly Poles own doing), but they had $100 million in cap space and a bunch of draft equity. I didn't expect playoffs or anything, but you have to show some improvement with those kind of assets at your disposal.

[Atocep]

I don't think the 2022 draft could be labeled a disaster when you landed at least 2 legit starters in Jones and Brisker. Gordon was awful last year but was coming off an ACL so this year should tell us more. Hicks would be a starter if they didn't have Jackson on a huge contract.

[Swaggs]

my Steelers looking good in the preseason

[Atocep]

I also don't think Mooney is all that good. Probably a #3 on a good team and he was part of the problem last year. He was running the wrong routes and still stuck in Nagy's offense, running the Nagy route options, ect.
I haven't seen any reason to extend him.

Johnson is a solid 2nd corner but he struggles with speed and if he wants #1 corner money he can walk too.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I agree, however, that the lack of a NFL-quality roster does make it very difficult to evaluate Fields.

Good QBs have done more with less. If you watch him on plays designed to go farther than five yards it takes him at least 1.5 seconds for him to analyze the defense. You can see him trying to process what he sees (or what he thinks he sees). By that time it's too late unless he gets four seconds to pass. And even then he's already thinking about running as he doesn't have good pocket sense. It won't happen but I would love to see what Bagent could do with the same roster. It's not like the Bears are a playoff team anyway. If Purdy can do it why not Bagent?

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He used that cap space to sign linebackers, traded the 32nd pick in the draft for a year of Claypool, and had a pretty disastrous 2022 draft. And passing on Jalen Carter after he fell to them will haunt them for years to come. Not to mention how bad this coaching staff has looked.

The cupboard was empty last year (mostly Poles own doing), but they had $100 million in cap space and a bunch of draft equity. I didn't expect playoffs or anything, but you have to show some improvement with those kind of assets at your disposal.

The LB signings and the drafting of two DTs puzzle me. The Claypool trade was a gamble that didn't pay off; can't really fault him. It's the O-line situation that really bugs me. Isn't that supposed to be his strength? I didn't mind passing on Carter. He's going to be suspended at some point early in his career and who needs a problem like that, especially with this coaching staff.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

If Purdy can do it why not Bagent?

Because Purdy saw a significantly higher level of competition/defenses for his college career? Enough of a difference that it's not unreasonable to figure Bagent is several years behind Purdy in development

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Because Purdy saw a significantly higher level of competition/defenses for his college career? Enough of a difference that it's not unreasonable to figure Bagent is several years behind Purdy in development

I am not directly comparing the two but your argument is similar to mine regarding Mayes. UNC is no powerhouse but he's in the mix to be the first QB taken in the next draft. So you wouldn't draft him? I understand your point, but what do the Bears have to lose if they are 2-5 or 2-6 -- or worse!

[JPhillips]

The Ravens injury list is just brutal.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Before we crucify Getsy, I wonder how many open receivers Fields had downfield that instead wound up being those dump offs. I'm not convinced those were all just play calling.

edit: That said, I do agree, his playcalling has been substandard. But I can't put it all on him, 'cause I don't trust Fields to actually recognize what an open receiver is.

So I watched all-22 breakdown up until the fumble. It went to shit from there and I don't want to relive it.

I'd say Fields had 1 big miss on the 3rd pass play where Moore was open deep (would have been a gain of 20ish). He dumped off for a gain of 8 rather than being aggressive. He had another miss on Kmet (IIRC) over the middle against a zone that was somewhat iffy. I'd say understandable miss, but one you want. It wasn't his primary read and the window was closing when he got to it in the progression.

The other knock on Fields was the roll out into the sack near the goaline. That was absolute awful play design or someone didn't do what they were supposed to. However, Fields needs to get rid of it.

Outside of that, not a lot to complain about with Fields for those first 3 quarters. Tonyan had one of the worst misses on a block you'll see on the screen to Foreman. That would have been a big gain if he does anything. Claypool didn't break his route off on a CB blitz and just kept running his fly pattern. Mooney would have had a shot on a deep ball if he ran a better route on one of the plays, but allowed himself to get knocked off his route and swallowed up. Fields scrambled for a solid gain on that play. Overall, execution was bad. Not sure why DJ Moore wasn't more involved.

Nothing I saw in the all 22 really changes my mind. Getsy will have several nice play designs and then you see something stupid that makes no sense.

PFF mostly agrees. Gave him a 60.9 for the game overall. Likely had a decent grade before the fumble/int.

FWIW, Darnell Wright was the highest graded offensive player. Zach Pickens was the 3rd highest graded defensive player.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

I am not directly comparing the two but your argument is similar to mine regarding Mayes. UNC is no powerhouse but he's in the mix to be the first QB taken in the next draft. So you wouldn't draft him? I understand your point, but what do the Bears have to lose if they are 2-5 or 2-6 -- or worse!

No, I wouldn't (I mean, not with an early pick). I've been unimpressed by Maye consistently and consider him an overrated future bust (if anybody actually drops an early pick on him)

[molson]

Former Buccs and Bills WR Mike Williams was reported dead about a week ago, but now he's been upgraded to alive, and breathing on his own.

[Lathum]

holy shit/ Rodgers is down and out of the game

[miami_fan]

Well this is awkward.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Lathum

holy shit/ Rodgers is down and out of the game

They were on top of him every single play. the O line deserves to write an apology note to him

[Lathum]

ankle, questionable return

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

ankle, questionable return

If it's a high ankle it could be a long season for the Jets. Gonna take several weeks to heal and an immobile Rodgers behind a struggling line is a bad combo.

[stevew]

There’s an ambient whistle near the microphone and it’s annoying

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

holy shit/ Rodgers is down and out of the game

So is Rodger's career in jeopardy?

[SirFozzie]

X-rays negative, but he'll miss a few weeks, sounds like.