Werewolf LXII -- The BCS (Racer and Swaggs win)

[chesapeake]

Pass: What is the value of being on top in the public and private polls? Do you get PPs for that? Also, is it somehow cumulative from week to week, or is each day a clean slate?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

Pass: What is the value of being on top in the public and private polls? Do you get PPs for that? Also, is it somehow cumulative from week to week, or is each day a clean slate?

The public and private polls will affect your BCS Ranking, which really only matters at the end of Day 8. They're not cumulative -- each day is a completely different poll.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Challenge Anxiety

I Accept This challenge Mr. Wednesday

[Alan T]

So it appears everyone wants to just throw out random challenges rather than try to do any kind of reveals to help out an organized way to try to find the wolves.. Am I the only good guy here?

Lets try again.. this is what I want to do:

everyone reveal their conferences so we have groups of 4 already setup with the understanding that there is 1 bad guy out of each group of 4. Then organize a way where the scout on conf 1 scans conf 2, until they find which of the 4 people is the wolf on that conference. (should take no more than 3 turns), which would allow all conferences to know who their wolf is in their conference by the time things have to be submitted hopefully.

Or I guess we can continue the way everyone wants to and just randomly guess and have no coordination to keep the bad guys out of the BCS at all.

[Barkeep49]

Why don't you just out you conference Alan to get things started?

[Passacaglia]

Little announcement here. PurdueBrad has some technical difficulties, and Barkeep49 will be taking his place. The role of Notre Dame will now be played by...Passacaglia?!? Notre Dame will not vote in any BCS manners, but still has the same victory condition.

Barkeep's game with Lathum is now off the schedule, but they may challenge each other again, if they like.

[Barkeep49]

Challenge Lathum (the puny)

[Alan T]

So Barkeep, now that you are a different team, do your opinions on anything change?

Fine, no one is saying anything much in one way or another either in PM or on here. Hopefully others will work together to try to beat the wolves.. after all the wolves already know this info.. so no idea why we don't want to know it either. It will be told in day 4 anyways, so not really anything to hide.

My conference is: Molson, Lathum, Chesapeake and myself.. so one of us four I assume is one of the 4 wolves.

Everyone else want to share, so we can try to set up some form of way to coordinate scans and hopefully figure out the wolves before too late to do much?

[st.cronin]

So... Barkeep49 is now Passacaglia (who is also the GM), and PurdueBrad is now Barkeep49?

My conference is: Mr. Wednesday, ntndeacon, and claphamsa.

I am hoping to win this thing, so for day 1:

SCHEDULE TEAM 35

[st.cronin]

There's no lynches in this game, so what can we do about the detractors if we find them? Just vote them to the bottom of the polls?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

There's no lynches in this game, so what can we do about the detractors if we find them? Just vote them to the bottom of the polls?

Vote for sanctions on them to remove their powerpoints, and for people in their conference to know to not try to work things out so they get in the BCS from their conference if possible.

[st.cronin]

Ok, just reread the rules - we can impose sanctions. So, does anybody see any harm in voting sanctions on somebody in their conference? There's a 1 in 3 chance I'll hit a "detractor." Does the math make that a good play or not?

[Lathum]

ACCEPT BARKEEPS CHALLANE

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Ok, just reread the rules - we can impose sanctions. So, does anybody see any harm in voting sanctions on somebody in their conference? There's a 1 in 3 chance I'll hit a "detractor." Does the math make that a good play or not?

I have been debating that.. the catch is that I want my conference to get the BCS bid, but not the wolf team in my conference.. so I would have a 33% chance of hitting a wolf, I would have a 66% chance of hitting a non-wolf that I don't want to do harm to. whereas voting for someone in a different conference I have a 25% chance of hitting a wolf, but a 100% chance of not hitting someone in my conference.

After the first day or two hopefully if people start being more open like you have been, we'll have more information and can improve the chance of hitting wolves dramatically. But that requires other people sharing.

[claphamsa]

killer kittens dont like wolves.......

[Barkeep49]

Yes Alan things have changed. I'm not in favor of revealing who is in my conference. I want my conference teammates to do well, as that's my only chance of victory. I really only care about finding the impostor in my conference. I don't really care about who is aligned with whom now that we know who Notre Dame is and can judge that threat accordingly.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yes Alan things have changed. I'm not in favor of revealing who is in my conference. I want my conference teammates to do well, as that's my only chance of victory. I really only care about finding the impostor in my conference. I don't really care about who is aligned with whom now that we know who Notre Dame is and can judge that threat accordingly.

And along those lines

Vote Pass

Accusing someone is a way to subtract powerpoints. Since everyone is on the same playing field, I want a no lynch D1.

[Lathum]

Can't we just vote no sanctions everyday and level the playing field?

[st.cronin]

I thought ND was exempt from sanctions? Isn't voting pass the same as voting "no sanctions"?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

And along those lines

Vote Pass

Accusing someone is a way to subtract powerpoints. Since everyone is on the same playing field, I want a no lynch D1.

Figures that y'all are scared of the Big Bad Fightin' Irish. The commish even allowed for a no sanctions vote, but you gotta go out and use your vote as a bully pulpit to spread your ND hate. That's fine. A vote for Notre Dame will be the same as a vote for no sanctions.

[SnDvls]

SCHEDULE TEAM 43

I'm going to have to reread the rules again, but with St. C's challenge out there to a "computer" team someone else will have to do the same if I figured this out correctly so I'll go ahead and take that on too.

[Barkeep49]

I forgot that No Sanctions was an option

Unvote Pass
Vote No Sanctions

[RendeR]

Notre dame sucks golden horse shit.

[RendeR]

=)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yes Alan things have changed. I'm not in favor of revealing who is in my conference. I want my conference teammates to do well, as that's my only chance of victory. I really only care about finding the impostor in my conference. I don't really care about who is aligned with whom now that we know who Notre Dame is and can judge that threat accordingly.

How do you plan on doing this since your scout can not scan your conference. Unless you are the wolf in your conference that is and then your response I guess is probably in your best interest.

Since the scouts can not scan their own conference, there has to be some level of cooperation between conferences, or you just have to be lucky to guess who your wolf is in yours.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Notre dame sucks golden horse shit.

If you don't like it, vote me, biznitch!

[chesapeake]

Unchallenge St. Cronin since he decided to go in a different direction.

I'll accept any challenge, save from those jerks in South Bend. I'll check in before I go to bed to see if anyone wants a piece of me.

For good or ill, I'll confirm Alan T's outing of my conference.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

How do you plan on doing this since your scout can not scan your conference. Unless you are the wolf in your conference that is and then your response I guess is probably in your best interest.

Since the scouts can not scan their own conference, there has to be some level of cooperation between conferences, or you just have to be lucky to guess who your wolf is in yours.

I agree there has to be cooperation. But not, I feel, until we get into intra-conference games.

[Barkeep49]

I don't like playing computers at this point in time. If we all play humans for the first couple of days we SHOULD have some sorting out of teams, on a level playing field. At the end of Day 2, if we've gone human human all the way, we'll have 3/4 teams with 75 PP, 3/4 teams with 50 PP, 3/4 teams with 25 PP, and 3/4 with 0 PP. That gives us a nice spread to focus our scouts, especially if they have 25 or 0 PP.

[Barkeep49]

Pass: Can only 1 team each week schedule a computer of the same PP? Do those games count in the division of points

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree there has to be cooperation. But not, I feel, until we get into intra-conference games.

At that point it likely is too late. You lose half of the time possible to limit the wolves then. The wolves already know this information, so you basically are saying you want to only let the wolves know this and not anyone that is good? Just making sure that I understand that you only want the wolves to know this info until day 4.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Pass: Can only 1 team each week schedule a computer of the same PP? Do those games count in the division of points

No -- the number doesn't represent a unique team, rather a strength level for that team. If two teams schedule Team 99, it just means that both teams are scheduling games against extremely tough opponents.

[Alan T]

I'm debating where to go with my vote and challenge for today.

Right now I am leaning towards voting no sanction with the hope that having 3 scouts among the teams (one of the scouts apparently will be a detractor's scout), it will give us the opportunity to have alot more information before we imposed any sanctions.. however that depends on us cooperating together.. If it seems like we aren't cooperating, I'll go ahead and vote to sanction someone, right now leaning towards voting Barkeep due to his pushing to hide information (which is the exact opposite of his normal play, and even crazier here considering the circumstance).

For my challenge , I'll likely challenge someone else in barkeep's conference once those are known to give either them or myself a chance at full points this time around. Going to bed now though, back in the morning before deadline.

[Swaggs]

Schedule Team 48

[Abe Sargent]

I'm going to be very out this game. My laptop broke and won;t return for over a week, closer to two. ugh. Using another's to connect.

Vote Pass for Sanctions

Silly Irish


BCS Vote

1. Molson
2. Anxiety
3. Swaggs
4. Barkeep
5. AlanT

[Chief Rum]

All right, I won't be back before the deadline tomorrow, so here are all my actions.

SCHEDULE TEAM 75

That should be the team I have a 25% chance of beating. Pass, if I have that switched around, please switch it for me. I want the odds to be against me, not in my favor.

PUBLIC POLL

1. Chief Rum
2. Anxiety
3. Alan T
4. Barkeep
5. jeheinz

Sanctions...

VOTE ALAN T

Reason? He's generally a dangerous player, of course. And I have given him points, so might as well try to take them away. Not sure you can have negative power points besides.

[Schmidty]

Oh, this already started? Bummer. I was just about to sign up.

[Barkeep49]

Alan: I simply don't think by week 6 or so is "too late" to stop the infilitrators. On the contrary I think if my team is doing poorly that I would be all the more willing to throw games in order to use my power at that point.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Alan: I simply don't think by week 6 or so is "too late" to stop the infilitrators. On the contrary I think if my team is doing poorly that I would be all the more willing to throw games in order to use my power at that point.

Everyone has the same schedule. You have 4 games vs non conference opponents, you have 3 conference games, then the optional conference championships. The catch is that each conference must place their conference schedules, tiebreaks, decisions on conf championships, etc all by day 4.

So you are proposing that we allow the wolves to know who all of the conferences are, but not tell each other for the first 4 days, to allow them to get a head start for roughly half of the game before we catch up to them in information that we could have been gaining before that on our own, nothing stopping us other than ourselves.

Your proposal is to basically almost totally ignore the detractors until conference play at which time it would be nearly impossible to coordinate anything between each conference's scouts to do any form of communications.

I can't believe that I am even having to explain that there is absolutely nothing but upside for us to gain information that we will already learn on day 4, that the wolves already know. My next biggest fear is that because of the smokescreen going on here, and that no one is sharing information, we will end up with worthless scouts.. We're pretty much handing the detractors the BCS by not working together against them here, but that is what you want, isn't it?

[Barkeep49]

You're right. I wasn't thinking through the idea that the wolves already know all the conferences.

My conference is me, Chief Rum, Racer, and Swaggs.

However, the wolves are less of a threat to me than everyone else in this game. Of the 15 other players I need to worry about 1 wolf (the one in my conference), and 12 other competitors. If someone from another conference wins, it's the same to me as a wolf winning from my conference.

[Barkeep49]

Public Poll:
1. Barkeep49
2. Chief Rum
3. Racer
4. Swaggs
5. Lathum (gotta give him credit for wanting to play against my powerhouse)

[Alan T]

Ok based on the information we have, this appears to be the 4 conferences:

conf #1: Alan T, Molson, Chesapeake, Lathum
conf #2 St.Cronin, Claphamsa, Mr.Wednesday, Ntndeacon
conf #3 Barkeep, Swaggs, Chief Rum, Racer
conf #4 Render, Sndvls, Jeheinz72, Anxiety

There should be 1 scout in each conference (just one of the 4 is a wolf scout), so I suggest to try to get the most bang for our buck, the scouts talk to your conference and be willing to sacrifice your own BCS goals for your conference. Don't tell the rest of the game who are the scouts, only tell your conference that way no one else knows who is giving up games to do the scouting.

I then think conf #1 scout should scout someone in conf 2, Conf #2 scout should scout someone in conf #1. Scout in conf #3 should scout someone in conf #4 and Conf #4 scout shuld scan conf #3 to try to figure out who the detractors are.. I think the scouts should report back to their conference what the results end up being with someone in the conf announcing it to the rest of the teams. That leaves each conference with a bodyguard and a duke to protect the scout as needed if the need arises.

Any problems with that plan?

[jeheinz72]

I think that's a good scanning plan personally, and since I see he's online

Challenge chesapeake

For the polls, don't we typically want to vote for those in our conference first?

[chesapeake]

Here's my back-of-the-napkin compilation of the currently scheduled games:
Lathum v Barkeep
Render v Claphamsa
Mr. Wednesday v Anxiety
St. Cronin v Team 35
Sndvls v Team 43
Swaggs v Team 48
Chief Rum v Team 75
Hopefully I didn't miss anything. I still think it makes the most sense to take a 50/50 shot at 100 points than any other challenge, so:

CHALLENGE JEHEINZ

[chesapeake]

ACCEPT CHALLENGE JEHEINZ

You beat me to it.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

Here's my back-of-the-napkin compilation of the currently scheduled games:
Lathum v Barkeep
Render v Claphamsa
Mr. Wednesday v Anxiety
St. Cronin v Team 35
Sndvls v Team 43
Swaggs v Team 48
Chief Rum v Team 75
Hopefully I didn't miss anything. I still think it makes the most sense to take a 50/50 shot at 100 points than any other challenge, so:

CHALLENGE JEHEINZ

That matches what I have.

[chesapeake]

Vote No Sanctions

And now, for my meaningless poll votes:

1. jeheinz
2. Chief Rum
3. ntndeacon
4. RendeR
5. Claphamsa

[Alan T]

This exchange out of the blue where you both suddenly challenged each other without any other conversation (at least in thread), even though other people without matches were also in the thread....

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I think that's a good scanning plan personally, and since I see he's online

Challenge chesapeake

For the polls, don't we typically want to vote for those in our conference first?

Originally Posted by chesapeake

Here's my back-of-the-napkin compilation of the currently scheduled games:
Lathum v Barkeep
Render v Claphamsa
Mr. Wednesday v Anxiety
St. Cronin v Team 35
Sndvls v Team 43
Swaggs v Team 48
Chief Rum v Team 75
Hopefully I didn't miss anything. I still think it makes the most sense to take a 50/50 shot at 100 points than any other challenge, so:

CHALLENGE JEHEINZ

Originally Posted by chesapeake

ACCEPT CHALLENGE JEHEINZ

You beat me to it.

Followed by this, (voting for one person in all 4 conferences, instead of your own conference)

Originally Posted by chesapeake

Vote No Sanctions

And now, for my meaningless poll votes:

1. jeheinz
2. Chief Rum
3. ntndeacon
4. RendeR
5. Claphamsa

Really is a little bit worrysome to me.

[jeheinz72]

Is he worrisome or me? I'm honestly a little in the dark so I have no idea if I'm making some sort of apparent wolfen play (I'm not a wolf, of course)

[chesapeake]

The only other person that showed up as in the thread at that moment was Racer, IIRC. You didn't show up as in the thread.

No power points are given for poll placement. The poll votes are meaningless until Day 8. See post 102. What value is it for our conference to appear as #1-4? It seems to me that would just paint targets on our backs.