Werewolf CXXV - Vegas, Baby - VILLAGERS WIN - Page 3

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 10:30 AM

I still think that even if we were to agree as a whole that this was a decent idea, we would be best served waiting at least one day. I highly doubt everyone will have checked in by noon, and even people that checked in last night or this morning won't come back. Coordinating such a vote between so many people is tough, and I don't see it working out properly without a lot of in-thread agreement, which there hasn't been to this point.

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 10:32 AM

It will be fun to see who people vote for, though. I imagine a lot of people are going to cast first votes on the people that they bet on getting lynched, and others will be stubborn to move away from their picks.

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I assume, too, that we will not find out who people bet on and who profited from the lynch?

As far as you are aware, your bets and its results will remain private.

Lathum · 02-10-2011, 11:08 AM

Can I give my money to another player?

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 11:12 AM

@Lathum You are not aware of any way to do that.

JAG · 02-10-2011, 11:42 AM

One more thing then I'm shutting up for a while. I think a 9-4-4 ratio might be possible after all considering the wolves might off each other. A 13-4 ratio wouldn't be that out of whack in a normal game, no? 16-3 sounds a little tilted to the villagers, under normal circumstances.

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 11:46 AM

15 minutes left to place your bets.

I will post the services available at noon, and lynch voting will begin then. Deadline is 9 p.m. EST.

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 11:50 AM

Its possible JAG. 6-8 wolves, either way we've a lot to get rid of.

Chief Rum · 02-10-2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

One more thing then I'm shutting up for a while. I think a 9-4-4 ratio might be possible after all considering the wolves might off each other. A 13-4 ratio wouldn't be that out of whack in a normal game, no? 16-3 sounds a little tilted to the villagers, under normal circumstances.

I had a similar dynamic in my Enter The Cube game, with two sets of wolves. I had three on each side and a similar number of players. Of course, I actually gave each set of wolves the identity of the other wolves and gave them a win condition of defeating one another before defeating the villager.

I felt that 3-3 worked well enough in that one, but balance isn't so easy to determine for each game; the rules are different and that can change things alot.

Chief Rum · 02-10-2011, 11:52 AM

I would still lean 3-3 or even 2-2, though, over 4-4. Consider that there aren't any actual established villager roles and that the villager services could be usurped by two different wolf teams that can pool their money. That seems like a lot of power in the wolves' hands. Only balance would be numbers.

DaddyTorgo · 02-10-2011, 12:01 PM

Holy crap. Bets due now?

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 12:01 PM

They are. I'm still writing things up, so I'll give you a minute, DT.

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 12:05 PM

You love Las Vegas, just the way it is. You enjoy the many pleasures of Sin City, especially the gambling, and want to keep doing so. The trouble is, Sin City's getting less friendly these days. Tough guys muscling their way in, wanting a piece of your business, wanting to be the middleman, wanting protection money. It's time to put Vegas back the way it was, and get these goons out of here. Your job is to find the crime families who have wormed their way into the city and send them packing. Lucky for you Vegas is built for the two things you need to do - win money and spend money. You've placed your bets. Now see if there's anything you want to bid for.

The services available for bidding are:

Day 1

Tank Wallace, Professional Bodyguard - hire Tank for protection
Mario Juarez, Private Investigator - Mario will get the dirt on anyone you want
Cassie's Escort Agency - there's lots of things to do in Vegas at night
Knuckles Cassini - word is that if you want someone taken care of, Knuckles will do your dirty work
Destiny, Vegas Showgirl - everyone in town spends some time with Destiny in their lap, if they can afford it
Speedee Courier Service - you need to send a message, Speedee will get it there
Kalustian Betting Parlor - This bookie's got his fingers in every bet in town
24 Hour Check Cashing - When you need to move money in a hurry
Lefty Fingers, Acquisitions - Lefty has his fingers in every pocket in town

To place your bid, PM me the service you are bidding for, and the amount of money you wish to bid for it. Bids are due at 9 pm EST. You will be informed at that time if you won your bid.

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 12:07 PM

Betting is now closed for Day 1.

Voting is open. Lynch voting proceeds as usual. For those new to the game, to vote place your vote in bold in your post, on its own line, like this:

VOTE AUTUMN

You are allowed to change your vote:

UNVOTE AUTUMN
VOTE BARKEEP49

Vote deadline is 9 p.m. EST.

Passacaglia · 02-10-2011, 12:17 PM

Do the bad guys get night kills normally, or is bidding on Knuckles the only way to get one?

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Do the bad guys get night kills normally, or is bidding on Knuckles the only way to get one?

Pretty sure they have to bid on it, and they also get access to bid on things that weren't listed there.

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 12:20 PM

Going to get a vote out there before I get to my exercise and errands and things. J missed day one last time, was a wolf that made it to the end, and hasn't checked in yet to my knowledge, so here's some pressure!

VOTE J23

Passacaglia · 02-10-2011, 12:25 PM

I think as a baseline, everyone should vote for who they bet, then we can work from there -- seems like a fair way to get initial votes going, then consolidate based on how it looks.

VOTE LATHUM

I'm not in favor of the idea, but I think the fact that he mentioned it makes him the most likely person to get lynched.

mauchow · 02-10-2011, 12:26 PM

As a villager I almost have to vote for the person I bet because I'd really like to win the p.I. service to start cracking down on the Mafia.. but every Resident wants to do that. So I'm not sure what strategy should be employed here. I've got all afternoon to worry about it I guess.

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Pretty sure they have to bid on it, and they also get access to bid on things that weren't listed there.

To clarify, the Mafia may at times have black market services only they can bid for, but those will be visible to everyone in the services list.

mauchow · 02-10-2011, 12:30 PM

And I wont be voting lathum because of that reason. Too many people will have won the bets and I think any extra money for the wolves is not a good thing. Votes to someone completely random shouuld be the way to avoid clumps of people cashing in on the first day.

Lathum · 02-10-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

To clarify, the Mafia may at times have black market services only they can bid for, but those will be visible to everyone in the services list.

so how does this work if a villager bids on that service?

Lathum · 02-10-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauboy1

And I wont be voting lathum because of that reason. Too many people will have won the bets and I think any extra money for the wolves is not a good thing. Votes to someone completely random shouuld be the way to avoid clumps of people cashing in on the first day.

I think it will be very interesting to see who votes me and who drives those votes.

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

so how does this work if a villager bids on that service?

He said only the mafia can bid on those services.

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 12:36 PM

But it's interesting we'd get to know about it ahead of time. Maybe there won't be -too- many surprises.

Lathum · 02-10-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

He said only the mafia can bid on those services.

I know, but those services will be listed with the other ones. Are they somehow defined as mafia only bids?

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 12:39 PM

Good question, I'd imagine so.

tyketime · 02-10-2011, 12:39 PM

Autumn: Do you "resolve" the bids in the order they are listed? In the cases where someone bids on multiple services anticipating winning the Lynch bid, but lose. How do you determine which order you will determine the winning bid for each role?

For example: Tank first, Mario second, etc?

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 12:39 PM

Another good question!

Chief Rum · 02-10-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I know, but those services will be listed with the other ones. Are they somehow defined as mafia only bids?

I would guess so, although looking at today's list, it seems to me some of those services seem like the sort of thing that would only be available on the black market. But there is no indication there that villagers can't bid on all of them.

mauchow · 02-10-2011, 12:43 PM

Can we retract bids or make multiple bids?

Passacaglia · 02-10-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauboy1

As a villager I almost have to vote for the person I bet because I'd really like to win the p.I. service to start cracking down on the Mafia.. but every Resident wants to do that. So I'm not sure what strategy should be employed here. I've got all afternoon to worry about it I guess.

I think we should start that way -- make it known who we want to see lynched based on our bets. Then once we've got a distribution of (temporary) votes, the people who are on singletons or someone not really in the running can move to voting for someone who has a chance of getting lynched.

The Jackal · 02-10-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Can we retract bids or make multiple bids?

Don't know about the first part, but yes you can bid on multiple services, as per the rules on the first page. Though I wonder if you can bid more than you have total (such as 1k on two different services, even if you only have 1k, knowing you'd only get one - or if you'd have to say split it up to 500k on each).

Lathum · 02-10-2011, 01:02 PM

hmm

Pass is pinging me a bit. First he jumped onto me pretty quick, making me wonder if he is a mobster trying to drive the vote and cash in. Now he is advocating everyone revealing their bets. I'm not sure how it would effect things, but it seems a bit reckless giving away that much info without at least some dialogue about it.

Passacaglia · 02-10-2011, 01:07 PM

Dialogue away!

Lathum · 02-10-2011, 01:09 PM

ha!

and for the record I did not bid on Pass. Obviously you only have my word about that

Passacaglia · 02-10-2011, 01:19 PM

I didn't think you would have -- the stuff you said was pinging you was from after the bids were made. Before the bids were made, I said I didn't like the idea (which I don't) but I made the bid thinking your lynch was the most likely scenario.

If you can think of a reason why villagers would want to hide who they bet on (note: it's probably not a big deal, but we should try not to confuse bids and bets), I'm listening. I just figure people are probably going to vote for who they bet on anyway, so we might as well get that out of the way then we can work from there. This probably means the lynch will be decided by people who were the only one to bet on a player, and I'm okay with that. But if it did turn out that like 12 people bet that I (or whoever) would be the lynch, well, you guys might as well just lynch me (or whoever).

Lathum · 02-10-2011, 01:23 PM

I'm not sure what damage could be done by revealing who we bet on, but I just think we should have some discussion about it before doing it.

I am also wondering how the two mob teams bet. Did they alll go for one candidate or spread things out so it isn't easy to group them together.

Passacaglia · 02-10-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Dialogue away!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

If you can think of a reason why villagers would want to hide who they bet on, I'm listening.

I'm fine with discussion. I'm NOT fine with sitting on our asses hoping someone will come up with a reason why we shouldn't do it, if no one's going to.

tyketime · 02-10-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am also wondering how the two mob teams bet. Did they alll go for one candidate or spread things out so it isn't easy to group them together.

Seems to me we have a role to bid on that will help us with that - PING "Kalustian Betting Parlor - This bookie's got his fingers in every bet in town".

But it would be nice to know how much we win if we get our lynch bet right so I can bid accordingly.

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

so how does this work if a villager bids on that service?

Any Mafia-only services will be marked specially. The village will see their description but not be able to bid on them.

Passacaglia · 02-10-2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am also wondering how the two mob teams bet. Did they alll go for one candidate or spread things out so it isn't easy to group them together.

My hunch is that they're spread out. That way they stand to gain at least something in more cases, and like you said, it would be harder to group them together.

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyketime

Autumn: Do you "resolve" the bids in the order they are listed? In the cases where someone bids on multiple services anticipating winning the Lynch bid, but lose. How do you determine which order you will determine the winning bid for each role?

For example: Tank first, Mario second, etc?

Good point, I should have specified this. If you wish to send in multiple you should list them in the order of priority. In other words you tell me which bid I should resolve first. If you run out of money, the rest of your bids will be removed.

Does that make sense?

PackerFanatic · 02-10-2011, 01:41 PM

VOTE CHIEF RUM

Lathum · 02-10-2011, 01:45 PM

Maybe we should start out by seeing who put in a bet?

Autumn · 02-10-2011, 01:56 PM

I should say that while I'm allowing bids on multiple services, and bids over your cash on hand, I would like those to remain reasonable. Please don't make bids on every service for more than you can afford. If need be I can make more stringent rules than that, but I'm hoping to not have to.

EagleFan · 02-10-2011, 01:57 PM

At least I found a way to not get any day one lynch votes on me...

Chief Rum · 02-10-2011, 02:14 PM

So if I understand this right, the plan being suggested is that we all vote for who we bet on, then we tally the numbers and decide where to go from there?

Lathum · 02-10-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So if I understand this right, the plan being suggested is that we all vote for who we bet on, then we tally the numbers and decide where to go from there?

here is the thing I don't like about that, we are going to have the votes spread out way to much to get any real history or use.

The wolves aren't going to group their votes either since the obvious step will be to look first at the people who did group their votes.

It may be asking a lot, but I think the best thing we can do is treat today like a normal D1 and forget about who you bet.

Chief Rum · 02-10-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

here is the thing I don't like about that, we are going to have the votes spread out way to much to get any real history or use.

The wolves aren't going to group their votes either since the obvious step will be to look first at the people who did group their votes.

It may be asking a lot, but I think the best thing we can do is treat today like a normal D1 and forget about who you bet.

I tend to agree with your general points here, although I would say also that I think the intent was for us to all vote soon, early, establsihing who the betting favorites are, and then we would follow with re-votes on one or two of those candidates to get an actual D1 vote.

My main issue with the process behind that is that we probably can't get enough people to vote and then be able to come back later and re-vote.

02-10-2011, 11:52 AM	#110
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I would still lean 3-3 or even 2-2, though, over 4-4. Consider that there aren't any actual established villager roles and that the villager services could be usurped by two different wolf teams that can pool their money. That seems like a lot of power in the wolves' hands. Only balance would be numbers. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

02-10-2011, 12:01 PM	#111
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	Holy crap. Bets due now? __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

02-10-2011, 01:57 PM	#147
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	At least I found a way to not get any day one lynch votes on me... __________________ The EagleFan YouTube Channel - Reactions Soarin' & Scratchin' YouTube Channel - We react to music, videos, TV, we talk, we are planning some field trips Soarin' & Soothin' - Meditation, Relaxation, and Sleep Aid; mental health is important

02-10-2011, 02:14 PM	#148
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	So if I understand this right, the plan being suggested is that we all vote for who we bet on, then we tally the numbers and decide where to go from there? __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

02-10-2011, 10:30 AM	#101
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I still think that even if we were to agree as a whole that this was a decent idea, we would be best served waiting at least one day. I highly doubt everyone will have checked in by noon, and even people that checked in last night or this morning won't come back. Coordinating such a vote between so many people is tough, and I don't see it working out properly without a lot of in-thread agreement, which there hasn't been to this point.

02-10-2011, 10:32 AM	#102
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	It will be fun to see who people vote for, though. I imagine a lot of people are going to cast first votes on the people that they bet on getting lynched, and others will be stubborn to move away from their picks.

02-10-2011, 11:08 AM	#104
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Can I give my money to another player?

02-10-2011, 11:12 AM	#105
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	@Lathum You are not aware of any way to do that.

02-10-2011, 11:42 AM	#106
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	One more thing then I'm shutting up for a while. I think a 9-4-4 ratio might be possible after all considering the wolves might off each other. A 13-4 ratio wouldn't be that out of whack in a normal game, no? 16-3 sounds a little tilted to the villagers, under normal circumstances.

02-10-2011, 11:46 AM	#107
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	15 minutes left to place your bets. I will post the services available at noon, and lynch voting will begin then. Deadline is 9 p.m. EST.

02-10-2011, 11:50 AM	#108
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Its possible JAG. 6-8 wolves, either way we've a lot to get rid of.

02-10-2011, 12:01 PM	#112
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	They are. I'm still writing things up, so I'll give you a minute, DT.

02-10-2011, 12:05 PM	#113
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	You love Las Vegas, just the way it is. You enjoy the many pleasures of Sin City, especially the gambling, and want to keep doing so. The trouble is, Sin City's getting less friendly these days. Tough guys muscling their way in, wanting a piece of your business, wanting to be the middleman, wanting protection money. It's time to put Vegas back the way it was, and get these goons out of here. Your job is to find the crime families who have wormed their way into the city and send them packing. Lucky for you Vegas is built for the two things you need to do - win money and spend money. You've placed your bets. Now see if there's anything you want to bid for. The services available for bidding are: Day 1 Tank Wallace, Professional Bodyguard - hire Tank for protection Mario Juarez, Private Investigator - Mario will get the dirt on anyone you want Cassie's Escort Agency - there's lots of things to do in Vegas at night Knuckles Cassini - word is that if you want someone taken care of, Knuckles will do your dirty work Destiny, Vegas Showgirl - everyone in town spends some time with Destiny in their lap, if they can afford it Speedee Courier Service - you need to send a message, Speedee will get it there Kalustian Betting Parlor - This bookie's got his fingers in every bet in town 24 Hour Check Cashing - When you need to move money in a hurry Lefty Fingers, Acquisitions - Lefty has his fingers in every pocket in town To place your bid, PM me the service you are bidding for, and the amount of money you wish to bid for it. Bids are due at 9 pm EST. You will be informed at that time if you won your bid.

02-10-2011, 12:07 PM	#114
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Betting is now closed for Day 1. Voting is open. Lynch voting proceeds as usual. For those new to the game, to vote place your vote in bold in your post, on its own line, like this: VOTE AUTUMN You are allowed to change your vote: UNVOTE AUTUMN VOTE BARKEEP49 Vote deadline is 9 p.m. EST.

02-10-2011, 12:17 PM	#115
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Do the bad guys get night kills normally, or is bidding on Knuckles the only way to get one?

02-10-2011, 12:20 PM	#117
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Going to get a vote out there before I get to my exercise and errands and things. J missed day one last time, was a wolf that made it to the end, and hasn't checked in yet to my knowledge, so here's some pressure! VOTE J23

02-10-2011, 12:25 PM	#118
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	I think as a baseline, everyone should vote for who they bet, then we can work from there -- seems like a fair way to get initial votes going, then consolidate based on how it looks. VOTE LATHUM I'm not in favor of the idea, but I think the fact that he mentioned it makes him the most likely person to get lynched.

02-10-2011, 12:26 PM	#119
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	As a villager I almost have to vote for the person I bet because I'd really like to win the p.I. service to start cracking down on the Mafia.. but every Resident wants to do that. So I'm not sure what strategy should be employed here. I've got all afternoon to worry about it I guess.

02-10-2011, 12:30 PM	#121
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	And I wont be voting lathum because of that reason. Too many people will have won the bets and I think any extra money for the wolves is not a good thing. Votes to someone completely random shouuld be the way to avoid clumps of people cashing in on the first day.

02-10-2011, 12:36 PM	#125
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	But it's interesting we'd get to know about it ahead of time. Maybe there won't be -too- many surprises.

02-10-2011, 12:39 PM	#127
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Good question, I'd imagine so.

02-10-2011, 12:39 PM	#128
tyketime College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003	Autumn: Do you "resolve" the bids in the order they are listed? In the cases where someone bids on multiple services anticipating winning the Lynch bid, but lose. How do you determine which order you will determine the winning bid for each role? For example: Tank first, Mario second, etc?

02-10-2011, 12:39 PM	#129
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Another good question!

02-10-2011, 12:43 PM	#131
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	Can we retract bids or make multiple bids?

02-10-2011, 01:02 PM	#134
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	hmm Pass is pinging me a bit. First he jumped onto me pretty quick, making me wonder if he is a mobster trying to drive the vote and cash in. Now he is advocating everyone revealing their bets. I'm not sure how it would effect things, but it seems a bit reckless giving away that much info without at least some dialogue about it.

02-10-2011, 01:07 PM	#135
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Dialogue away!

02-10-2011, 01:09 PM	#136
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	ha! and for the record I did not bid on Pass. Obviously you only have my word about that

02-10-2011, 01:19 PM	#137
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	I didn't think you would have -- the stuff you said was pinging you was from after the bids were made. Before the bids were made, I said I didn't like the idea (which I don't) but I made the bid thinking your lynch was the most likely scenario. If you can think of a reason why villagers would want to hide who they bet on (note: it's probably not a big deal, but we should try not to confuse bids and bets), I'm listening. I just figure people are probably going to vote for who they bet on anyway, so we might as well get that out of the way then we can work from there. This probably means the lynch will be decided by people who were the only one to bet on a player, and I'm okay with that. But if it did turn out that like 12 people bet that I (or whoever) would be the lynch, well, you guys might as well just lynch me (or whoever).

02-10-2011, 01:23 PM	#138
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I'm not sure what damage could be done by revealing who we bet on, but I just think we should have some discussion about it before doing it. I am also wondering how the two mob teams bet. Did they alll go for one candidate or spread things out so it isn't easy to group them together.

02-10-2011, 01:41 PM	#144
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	VOTE CHIEF RUM

02-10-2011, 01:45 PM	#145
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Maybe we should start out by seeing who put in a bet?

02-10-2011, 01:56 PM	#146
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I should say that while I'm allowing bids on multiple services, and bids over your cash on hand, I would like those to remain reasonable. Please don't make bids on every service for more than you can afford. If need be I can make more stringent rules than that, but I'm hoping to not have to.

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