Like We Need Another Reason To Piss People Off While On a Plane...

[Buccaneer]

What were the seat width and distance from the front for coach about 15-20 years ago?

[Neon_Chaos]

I always pay a little bit extra for a bulkhead seat. Or volunteer for the exit row.

14 hour flights from Manila to the US are no joke.

[RainMaker]

Are the seats closer together nowadays or are we all just fatter?

[PilotMan]

They aren't "comfortable" by any stretch at all. Some are much better than others and every last one of them is better than 95% of all the cockpit jumpseats. I guess maybe that's why I'm just happy to have any seat that gets me back home again.

Maybe that's why it's much more of a "meh" thing as well. It's relative. I'm not paying for my seat and I'm much more happy just to be there. Instead of wondering if I'll ever get home again.

I agree with you Jim, I'd much rather the person not recline their seat. It's more comfortable that way. The newer United seats are another double edges sword. They are shorter under you butt so if you slouch you may find the end of it sooner, but they also have more pitch built into the seat without having to recline. That makes them just a bit more comfortable than the older seats. They still aren't soft enough under your ass making long flights still not as comfortable.

[Blackadar]

It happened again (well, the seat reclining thing):

Passenger upset over seat reclining forces diversion of Paris-bound flight to Logan Airport - Metro - The Boston Globe

[Lathum]

Alexandre was arraigned Thursday at the hospital, where the judge imposed personal recognizance. Once released from the hospital, Alexandre will go to East Boston District Court for his next hearing on Dec. 29.

I'm assuming he can't leave the country? So is he going to be like Tom Hanks from that movie and just live in Logan airport until after Christmas?

Hope the outrage was worth it.

[Blackadar]

...and a 3rd time.

Delta Flight Rerouted After Passengers Fight Over Legroom - Yahoo


Two hour delay last night was fun for me. It was due to weather, but it was also due to them not boarding us until 15 minutes before takeoff rather than the customary 30. So we were *just* about to push back when the lightning showed up and were stranded on the ground for 2 hours. Anyone who had a connection missed it, but that's the reason I fly direct.

Question for PilotMan - how does the whole "FA's don't get paid while on the ground" thing work in a case like this? They were obviously working (they had to give us water) and the door was closed, but we hadn't pushed back yet.

[molson]

I always wonder what it's like on the plane after something like this happens. Does everyone know what's going on? Does the pilot tell them the whole story? How do you keep the passengers sitting next to where this is going on from lashing out against the idiot passengers who got the plane re-routed? I'd think that'd be security danger in itself.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

...and a 3rd time.

Delta Flight Rerouted After Passengers Fight Over Legroom - Yahoo


Two hour delay last night was fun for me. It was due to weather, but it was also due to them not boarding us until 15 minutes before takeoff rather than the customary 30. So we were *just* about to push back when the lightning showed up and were stranded on the ground for 2 hours. Anyone who had a connection missed it, but that's the reason I fly direct.

Question for PilotMan - how does the whole "FA's don't get paid while on the ground" thing work in a case like this? They were obviously working (they had to give us water) and the door was closed, but we hadn't pushed back yet.

If the door is closed, they are getting paid.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by miked

If the door is closed, they are getting paid.

Of course, they opened and closed the door about a half dozen times during those two hours...but I imagine those disruptions didn't impact their time cards.

[PilotMan]

I wish they would bill these stupid fucks for the cost of the diversion. Getting a bill for $200,000 might just make these fuckers rethink their behavior.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Question for PilotMan - how does the whole "FA's don't get paid while on the ground" thing work in a case like this? They were obviously working (they had to give us water) and the door was closed, but we hadn't pushed back yet.

Generally the company wants to keep the door open so that the clock doesn't start on the FAA departure (3hr limit) if they know the time could be long. In that case they aren't getting paid (and neither are the pilots.)

Since this is generally an undesirable state for everyone involved (show me the money!) the crew tries to at least get the doors closed and the brakes released so they can get on the clock. Not all airlines are the same. Some don't start paying until the plane is under movement.

The catch to all of this is that if the door opens again, the plane deplanes or otherwise doesn't "depart for the purposes of flight" all that pay is lost.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I wish they would bill these stupid fucks for the cost of the diversion. Getting a bill for $200,000 might just make these fuckers rethink their behavior.

This.

[bhlloy]

I'm amazed they can't go after them in court - I guess airlines have a bad enough rap anyway that it would be a PR disaster. I read that the two in the original incident weren't even arrested on landing, just turfed off the flight and I'm sure put right back onto the next one to their original destination. Great example to set.

[RainMaker]

I think taking bad passengers to court would generate good PR. Seems everyone hates those kind of people.

My stance is that if your behavior on a flight causes it to be diverted or re-routed, you lose your flying privileges for 5 years. No different than if you abuse your driving privileges. You get put on a no-fly list and that's that. One of these situations is going to end in disaster.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Generally the company wants to keep the door open so that the clock doesn't start on the FAA departure (3hr limit) if they know the time could be long. In that case they aren't getting paid (and neither are the pilots.)

Since this is generally an undesirable state for everyone involved (show me the money!) the crew tries to at least get the doors closed and the brakes released so they can get on the clock. Not all airlines are the same. Some don't start paying until the plane is under movement.

The catch to all of this is that if the door opens again, the plane deplanes or otherwise doesn't "depart for the purposes of flight" all that pay is lost.

I wonder how that's legal. They're on the plane and working. Seems like a lawsuit ready to happen.

[PilotMan]

Nope, that's the way that pay works for airline workers. We are paid when the plane departs for the purpose of flying. If the plane pushes back one foot, then sits for an hour then pulls back in to unload? Not paid. Taxi out and ATC delays the takeoff an hour? Paid. Plane loaded up, then we have a maintenance issue? Not paid. Of course we are paid if we have to taxi the plane to a new gate or something like that too, but otherwise that's how it works. Flight attendants are paid the same way, except for the taxiing thing. They aren't required in a reposition so they aren't paid, but that doesn't happen often.

I work 70-90 hours per month. Sounds great right? My hourly pay sounds great. $100/hr. However I'm on duty (and working) far more than that. Pay is only flight hours.

Take my next trip, a 3 day trip worth 17.5 flight hours. This is what pay is based off of for crews. My duty (includes all time from when I have to be at the airport til I get done for the day) for this trip is 24.5 hours. I'm working all this time but my pay isn't based on it. So my pay rate, while good isn't quite what it sounds. And my total time away from base (Newark) is just under 60 hours. That doesn't include my time to travel from Cincinnati to Newark and back. That add another 16 hours to the trip.

I don't know why this is the way it all is. It's been like this for as long as I've been in the industry. And I'm not listing my pay for some great discussion or to brag. I've spent the vast majority of my career making between $20-45/hr. Pilot pay is a matter of public record. You can find pay rates anywhere and the FAA (and my contract) dictates the number of hours I can work in a month.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Nope, that's the way that pay works for airline workers. We are paid when the plane departs for the purpose of flying. If the plane pushes back one foot, then sits for an hour then pulls back in to unload? Not paid. Taxi out and ATC delays the takeoff an hour? Paid. Plane loaded up, then we have a maintenance issue? Not paid. Of course we are paid if we have to taxi the plane to a new gate or something like that too, but otherwise that's how it works. Flight attendants are paid the same way, except for the taxiing thing. They aren't required in a reposition so they aren't paid, but that doesn't happen often.

I work 70-90 hours per month. Sounds great right? My hourly pay sounds great. $100/hr. However I'm on duty (and working) far more than that. Pay is only flight hours.

Take my next trip, a 3 day trip worth 17.5 flight hours. This is what pay is based off of for crews. My duty (includes all time from when I have to be at the airport til I get done for the day) for this trip is 24.5 hours. I'm working all this time but my pay isn't based on it. So my pay rate, while good isn't quite what it sounds. And my total time away from base (Newark) is just under 60 hours. That doesn't include my time to travel from Cincinnati to Newark and back. That add another 16 hours to the trip.

I don't know why this is the way it all is. It's been like this for as long as I've been in the industry. And I'm not listing my pay for some great discussion or to brag. I've spent the vast majority of my career making between $20-45/hr. Pilot pay is a matter of public record. You can find pay rates anywhere and the FAA (and my contract) dictates the number of hours I can work in a month.

I know, but I wonder how that's legal. Maybe it's negotiated via union contract or something and therefore ok.

As for the time away from base, that I understand since I travel every week. I'll spend 100 hours away from home and I'll work (bill) about 35 hours during that time.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Nope, that's the way that pay works for airline workers. We are paid when the plane departs for the purpose of flying. If the plane pushes back one foot, then sits for an hour then pulls back in to unload? Not paid. Taxi out and ATC delays the takeoff an hour? Paid. Plane loaded up, then we have a maintenance issue? Not paid. Of course we are paid if we have to taxi the plane to a new gate or something like that too, but otherwise that's how it works. Flight attendants are paid the same way, except for the taxiing thing. They aren't required in a reposition so they aren't paid, but that doesn't happen often.

I work 70-90 hours per month. Sounds great right? My hourly pay sounds great. $100/hr. However I'm on duty (and working) far more than that. Pay is only flight hours.

Take my next trip, a 3 day trip worth 17.5 flight hours. This is what pay is based off of for crews. My duty (includes all time from when I have to be at the airport til I get done for the day) for this trip is 24.5 hours. I'm working all this time but my pay isn't based on it. So my pay rate, while good isn't quite what it sounds. And my total time away from base (Newark) is just under 60 hours. That doesn't include my time to travel from Cincinnati to Newark and back. That add another 16 hours to the trip.

I don't know why this is the way it all is. It's been like this for as long as I've been in the industry. And I'm not listing my pay for some great discussion or to brag. I've spent the vast majority of my career making between $20-45/hr. Pilot pay is a matter of public record. You can find pay rates anywhere and the FAA (and my contract) dictates the number of hours I can work in a month.

Side bar: I'd be fascinated to know and understand the legal ramifications of "state of employment" on these policies.

Speaking from personal experience I got drug to court by an employee I had let go several years ago on "illegally low wages" charges. The dept he worked in we paid production, and it was where everyone wanted to work. Several HS grads or even dropouts under 25 y.o. made 70-80k/year working for me in this group. The one caveat was they warrantied their own work for 30 days. That meant if there was a customer call back or a QC issue they returned and repaired it and weren't compensated for that trip. (Logic being Ive already paid you to do the job right once, I'm not paying you to do it again. Of course things like material defects and faulty equipment were not handled this way, this was purely work quality issues.)...anyway the state of NC labor board ruled that despite this employee making $68k that year in just over 9 month that during the 30 minute episodes (2) he brought to case he was making less than minimum wage at that moment and there for was due unemployment benefits or reinstatement.

Seems a case might exist, but unions and exemptions and such I am sure have this covered.

[miami_fan]

I don't think I could have came up with a better title for a thread with this story in it.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/11/travel...tes/index.html

A passenger on a Portland, Oregon-bound JetBlue flight is accused of urinating on fellow travelers, seats and luggage.

Jeff D. Rubin, 27, slept through most of the three-hour flight originating from Anchorage, Alaska, according to a Port of Portland police report.

About 30 minutes before landing "he stood up and began urinating through the crack of the seat onto the passengers seated in front of him," read the report.

"At some point Jeff Rubin lost his balance causing him to fall backwards and urinate upwards which got on the passengers and seats next to him as well as some other passenger's personal belongings," police said.

When police boarded Flight 47 in Portland, Rubin was slumped in his seat and sleeping, officials said.

Rubin, of Gresham, Oregon, faces two misdemeanor charges: criminal mischief and offensive littering.

He was booked into the Multnomah County Detention Center, where urinals are readily available in all cells.

He was released on his own recognizance.

It was not clear Friday whether he had an attorney.

CNN left a message at what's believed to be his residence.

[PilotMan]

Ambien and alcohol shouldn't be mixed.

[cartman]

Maybe he was just trying to see if yellow and blue make green? Probably will at least result in a loss of some green for him.