Baseball Mogul 2007 gets serious

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Just incase it's not clear, OOTP Baseball 2006 still fully supports the Lahman database.

But BM has EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS! How can OOTP use it then? Won't somebody please think of the children?

[dervack]

Originally Posted by Ragone

i think thats e-harmony.. but i digress.. is joey long in this game?

Hi, welcome to the first page.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Just incase it's not clear, OOTP Baseball 2006 still fully supports the Lahman database.

i am just curious Marc...how is this going to work? And I know you can't necessarily speak to this then, but what good are the "exclusive rights" then?

[JPhillips]

Daddy: I would assume it will work like it always has. The DBase is freely available and can be imported in its Access form. I don't know, but would guess that BBMogul will have the DBase with the game and have some sort of one-click option to start from any year. The license will probably just be to include the name and the DBase with the software.

At least that's what I would expect.

[DaddyTorgo]

that's what i was thinking too...i was just wondering

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i am just curious Marc...how is this going to work? And I know you can't necessarily speak to this then, but what good are the "exclusive rights" then?

It's my understanding that 'exclusive' means Baseball Mogul have paid to have the database included in their download package

It's business as usual for all OOTP fans.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

It's my understanding that 'exclusive' means Baseball Mogul have paid to have the database included in their download package

It's business as usual for all OOTP fans.

awesome. business as usual wasn't much than an initial pain-in-the-ass. this just reaffirms my likely avoiding BM and purchasing OOTP (although of course both will get fair shots with the demos)

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Fouts

This makes it sound like the minor leaguers from every season (1901-2006) are included. Is this true? I wasn't aware that Lahman's database had all the minor league stats.

It is true. Minor leaguers are imported in their first pro year. Nice.

[Galaril]

This is being released at midnight tonight the 24th for $19.95 for anyone interested. I hope the best for Clay being he is one of early text sim developers.

[Logan]

This was a fun thread to read. And dervack's match.com line (even if it was slightly wrong) absolutely killed me.

[iansmith]

As I mentioned before, exclusive indeed means that we are the only baseball sim that pays Sean Lahman for the use of his baseball database. We have done this for several years.

It still confuses me why people seem to think this is a bad thing. Anyone is free to pay Sean for the rights to include the full database in their game.

If a someone decides not to pay to include the database in their game, don't get mad at Sports Mogul for pointing that out.

[Galaril]

I know last years version was messed up but I am kind of surprised no one is talking about this one. I will be the first to say I wasted alot of time on the game last year and felt it wasn't a finsihed product.But,I am like a crack addict when it comes to text sports sims and especially baseball games and it is looking like Clay has implemented well alot of the stuff thatshould of been in the game last year. I promised myself that I would buy after last year but.................what I am reading over at the mogul site is pretty positive not much whining. I know SkyDog you put alot of time into thegame last year to help make it a better game and your absence as far as commenting the lastest version is alittle surprising.

[jbmagic]

Skydog, how you liking the latest patch for Baseball Mogul 2007?

Do you recommend the game?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Skydog, how you liking the latest patch for Baseball Mogul 2007?

Do you recommend the game?

Hmm, I don't even see Skydog posting that he bought BM2007. Why would you single him out?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Hmm, I don't even see Skydog posting that he bought BM2007. Why would you single him out?

Like me, I think he gave up last year.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I know last years version was messed up but I am kind of surprised no one is talking about this one. I will be the first to say I wasted alot of time on the game last year and felt it wasn't a finsihed product.But,I am like a crack addict when it comes to text sports sims and especially baseball games and it is looking like Clay has implemented well alot of the stuff thatshould of been in the game last year. I promised myself that I would buy after last year but.................what I am reading over at the mogul site is pretty positive not much whining. I know SkyDog you put alot of time into thegame last year to help make it a better game and your absence as far as commenting the lastest version is alittle surprising.

I like the game. But I think it will be a distant 3rd in the text sim market this year. I cna't get the financials the way I like them. And when teams start falling off, it's difficult to get them back on track.

I wish this thing had a global editor, it may save it.

It did a lot of things right this year and it WAS worth the money I spent on it. But I can't see myself playing this after PureSim and OOTP hit the shelves.

[Galaril]

Anyone else still playing this?

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Anyone else still playing this?

Another official patch came out yesterday. It still some stat issues over the long haul and financial issues for small market teams.

Instead of playing, I've simmed about 1500 years in the past week testing out sim settings, rookie setting, financial settings, and an updated stadium file.

Still glad I bought it though. Much improved over last year.

[Galaril]

Well, as I slowly feel OOTPB 06 disappear into the distances of my rearview mirror and the lack of ANY 2006 roster start up file from the PS Modders community I took a gander over at Baseball Mogul. I read this and took alook at there forums tech problems area and it doesn't look bad at all. I was thinking Baseball Mogul 2008, but I'm now hoping to make some significant improvements in 9.40 or 9.50, available within the next couple of months.
I think for 19.99 it is a fair price and they have full 2006 minors as well as majors Database available. Cool. This is an interesting post from Clay talking about what he is going to be working on related to the AI. Proactive-type AI.

{QUOTE}
HoustonGM, disposablehero, etc. have some great points -- and they are also right that this kind of AI is hard.

There are a lot of reasons for this. Like you want to simulate real baseball. For example the Red Sox traded Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena. In my opinion, stupid trade. It was clear with 3 aging starters that they needed Bronson more than they needed a 4th outfielder that still hadn't shown he could hit righties. But there's an argument that Pena's age and potential made him more "valuable".

So a lot of focus in the Mogul AI went on the valuation -- making sure that you can't offer 3 scrubby relievers to a computer in exchange for Andruw Jones (even if the computer REALLY needs relievers). This is basically "reactive AI" and this is where the game improved with "Tradezilla".

But "pro-active AI" is a different issue. You need to have each computer team formulate a plan based on their needs, finances, standings position, and talent. Then they basically need to "write down" that plan and follow through on it like so:

1) Get a setup man for the playoff run.
2) Get a 4th outfielder so I can rest Manny Ramirez and Trot Nixon.
3) Try to get one or two starting pitchers under age 25 with an 87+ Peak Rating, because Schilling and Wells are over the hill. But don't give up too much, and DEFINITELY don't give up
4) Find a prospect at short because Gonzales is underperforming and his contract is about to expire and we don't plan to renew.
5) Get a backup veteran infielder in case we lose an infielder to injury. Willie Harris just doesn't have the arm to fill this role at 3B or SS if needed.
6) I'm $2,000,000 under budget. I'm willing to go $1,000,000 over budget for a chance to win. Would be nice to unload Trot Nixon as he's earning $6.5M and Stern and Pena are just as productive and less injury-prone.
7) If I DON'T lower payroll, I could trade for a setup man earning about $2,200,000 and a backup infielder earning $800,000. If I unload Trot, I could spend $4,000,000 and $1,000,000 and use the extra money to take on payroll in a trade -- or use as cash in the trade.

It's not too hard for a human GM to come up with this list. But it's pretty complicated for a computer and creates lots of things to check and track so they don't look stupid. Maybe the computer wants to unload Trot. But another team gives him an offer for Manny Ramirez (a guy that the real-life Red Sox have been trying to unload). Do you take it to lower your payroll? What if you're in the playoff hunt? The Red Sox want to win every year and they want to unload Manny because they thought they could get more value using his salary elsewhere.

Anyway, I've been thinking about this and have some ideas but it won't be a quick fix. But I think it's important that I start making the changes in patches to Mogul 2007 so that we have the AI tested thoroughly for Mogul 2008.

Clay__________________

[Dutch]

I'm ready to get back into the baseball sim world, I always loved the ease of Baseball Mogul but I like the in game play of OOTP.

I may have to think realistically about how much time I have to play baseball games and may just go with BM.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I'm ready to get back into the baseball sim world, I always loved the ease of Baseball Mogul but I like the in game play of OOTP.

I may have to think realistically about how much time I have to play baseball games and may just go with BM.

Uhm,............have you read any of the OOTP thread or been on SI's board and read the "Bugs"...... I mean "Tech" forum there. I would reconsider OOTP 06.

[James.Gattis]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Uhm,............have you read any of the the OOTP thread or been on SI's board and read the bugs I mean tech forum there. I would reconsider OOTP 06.

LOL! You will definitely find Mogul much easier to play but you will ALSO get a lot mroe playing time out of it, considering Ootp 2006 is full of bugs and the game play took a huge step backwards this year. I only bought Mogul 5 days ago and I've probably played it for 50 hours. If you've played OOtp before and loved it you should go get OOTP 6.5 (I think it might only be $19.95 now, but it is two years old). Otherwise pick up Baseball Mogul 2007, also only $19.95. I waited for 2 years for Ootp 2006 and it was such a mess I bought Mogul. Totally surprised by how much it has changed since 2004.

[Dutch]

I am leaning towards Baseball Mogul. For $19.99, its worth it to just pick it up and see for myself.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I am leaning towards Baseball Mogul. For $19.99, its worth it to just pick it up and see for myself.

just try the demo first.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I am leaning towards Baseball Mogul. For $19.99, its worth it to just pick it up and see for myself.

I'm starting to get baseball fever, too. With the news that the next OOTP patch won't be out until at least July (which is understandable given the severity of problems), I'll probably check out the demo for Baseball Mogul and maybe buy it.

[Eaglesfan27]

Ok, I've been playing the demo for the last few hours and I like what I see so far. I'm particularly fond of the negotiations process which feels more like a negotiation than many other games I've played.

I'm wondering a few things:

How long will the demo last? I can't seem to find that information, and I'm just about to enter into the offseason, so I guess I'll find out eventually, but I'm still curious.

Also, can someone who has bought this summarize the key problems in their opinion that still remain.

Oh yeah, I'm mostly interested in starting a current day MLB League and playing forward in time. From what I remember reading in the past, people said that most of the problems are in historical play. I would not be buying this game for historical play, although I might eventually try that out if it works well.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Ok, I've been playing the demo for the last few hours and I like what I see so far. I'm particularly fond of the negotiations process which feels more like a negotiations than many other games I've played.

I'm wondering a few things:

How long will the demo last? I can't seem to find that information, and I'm just about to enter into the offseason, so I guess I'll find out eventually, but I'm still curious.

Also, can someone who has bought this summarize the key problems in their opinion that still remain.

Oh yeah, I'm mostly interested in starting a current day MLB League and playing forward in time. From what I remember reading in the past, people said that most of the problems are in historical play. I would not be buying this game for historical play, although I might eventually try that out if it works well.

the demo lasts until...crap i forget when. FWIW from what I remember, the chief thing still broken is the financials, in that bad AI teams go into financial freefall which results in talent-freefall. Someone pointed out that this is fairly quick to correct every few years by giving them a big cash infusion. but that was a while back, i'm not sure, clay may have patched that (hoping?). anyone with the game care to comment, as i've just played the demo

[Eaglesfan27]

I've just read the impressions thread, and TroyF mentions giving teams a cash infusion every 5 years and that it only takes a few minutes to do this. If this is the only major problem, I'll probably purchase this tonight as this might be the best baseball sim for my needs at this point, all factors being considered. Any other big problems that anyone knows about?

[Terps]

Demo lasts until opening day of the 2007 season.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I've just read the impressions thread, and TroyF mentions giving teams a cash infusion every 5 years and that it only takes a few minutes to do this. If this is the only major problem, I'll probably purchase this tonight as this might be the best baseball sim for my needs at this point, all factors being considered. Any other big problems that anyone knows about?

Have you consider trying puresim 2007 demo too?

[Terps]

I'm probably going to buy too. I ran a season of the demo and didn't notice any major flaws. I like the way negotiations work, since you actually go back and forth with the player.

Meanwhile, OOTP2006 remains collecting dust, so to speak.

[JPhillips]

My biggest complaint with BM2007 is the horrible roster management. Teams don't know when to promote prospects to the major league club. Prospects tend to reach their maximum development with languishing in A or even Rookie leagues. There seems to be something coded that values veterans more than rookies.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

My biggest complaint with BM2007 is the horrible roster management. Teams don't know when to promote prospects to the major league club. Prospects tend to reach their maximum development with languishing in A or even Rookie leagues. There seems to be something coded that values veterans more than rookies.

Ouch. That is not good. I'm glad I didn't buy last night (I was very close a few times.) Is this something that is being looked at in a patch?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Ouch. That is not good. I'm glad I didn't buy last night (I was very close a few times.) Is this something that is being looked at in a patch?

Yeah, bbmogul 2008.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Yeah, bbmogul 2008.

Oh, sorry no slae. Shit. When is that EA NFL Headcoach game caming out? I am about done with the baseball other than some historical puresim.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Oh, sorry no slae. Shit. When is that EA NFL Headcoach game caming out? I am about done with the baseball other than some historical puresim.

I was being an ass. Check out the mogul website and see if Clay is still patching this version.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I was being an ass. Check out the mogul website and see if Clay is still patching this version.

Oh, I am naive.

oH :o

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Oh, I am naive.

oH :o

No, I was the naive one last year.

[Desmond]

As someone who has been frustrated with OOTP for a couple of years now, I picked up Mogul last month and was pleasantly surprised. I can't give alot of in depth feedback on it except to say that it felt alot more like the earlier versions of the game than the recent ones. That is to say that it was fun.

I've played 2 careers, both historical. I took over the expansion Mets and Blue Jays and had alot of fun just playing the game simply and easily. The minors, for me at least worked well and I enjoyed seeing some guys develop and some guys not but the minors seemed to work pretty well.

I will give this caveat however. When I took over the Mets it was amazingly easy to dominate. Within 3 years I had enough money and always had enough money to dominate the league. From 65-85 I won 18 division/league titles, and made 12 World Series appearances. My rotation for a long time included Gibson, Carlton, Marichal & Koosman. Carlton won over 400 games for me and the career in the end became a quest to try and get him to Cy Youngs record, but alas it fell short.

My Blue Jays career was also fun, but in the old sense of Mogul being fun. Again, minors worked well and I had to keep my payroll trim and build thru my farm system. I never won a division title but was able to load up for a 4 year stretch and win 90+ games consistently but I just couldn't overcome the Yanks or Sox.

Stats were good, tracking is good, can't comment on the trade AI all that much as I didn't really try and make a big trade or look at the trades in depth so I can't comment on that too much.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by Desmond

I will give this caveat however. When I took over the Mets it was amazingly easy to dominate. Within 3 years I had enough money and always had enough money to dominate the league. From 65-85 I won 18 division/league titles, and made 12 World Series appearances.

Nothing like a good, realistic baseball sim......

[Desmond]

Originally Posted by FBPro

Nothing like a good, realistic baseball sim......

I agree with you to a point. However I would liken it to the Yankees/Red Sox dominance in the AL East right now. I simply had the benefit of the market and made no stupid decisions, as a result I was able to have a payroll much higher than my competitors, SF came close to me in both financials and standings.

Also, it isn't like that could be edited. If I had lowered my market or whatever when I first started the game, to make me closer to the rest of the league I can guarantee it wouldn't have been that easy.

On the other hand I very much look forward to starting a career as a lesser NL team in that same time frame and engaging in the chase.

But I absolutely see your point.

[Yellow5]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I was being an ass. Check out the mogul website and see if Clay is still patching this version.

He posted an "Unofficial Patch" yesterday and has been patching the game almost weekly since the release.

[Terps]

Unofficial Patch Version 9.35

---

1) Injured pitchers no longer allowed as relievers.
2) Contract lengths reduced (and setting added to League Options).
3) Crash fixed when Fantasy Draft ends with 'Sortable Stats' Dialog open.
4) Payroll Budgets increased for 'Equalize Cities' setting.

Will take a closer look at the Defensive Substitution Dialog tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback so far.

Looks like #4 fixes the need to give low payroll teams cash. #2 was annoying because in the demo season I played, most players wanted 5 or 6 year deals.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Yellow5

He posted an "Unofficial Patch" yesterday and has been patching the game almost weekly since the release.

That's good for Gararil then!

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

That's good for Gararil then!

Yeah. Only problem I am being pulled by to forces my love of baseball and soccer. I am itching to buy the FM game. I would buy both but my wife would divorce me. I will wait and see the reviews of headcoach. But, I might pull the trigger and get BM anyways.

[MizzouRah]

If you love soccer, there's no choice.. FM all the way.

[James.Gattis]

Originally Posted by Desmond

I will give this caveat however. When I took over the Mets it was amazingly easy to dominate. Within 3 years I had enough money and always had enough money to dominate the league. From 65-85 I won 18 division/league titles, and made 12 World Series appearances. My rotation for a long time included Gibson, Carlton, Marichal & Koosman. Carlton won over 400 games for me and the career in the end became a quest to try and get him to Cy Youngs record, but alas it fell short.

There are 4 ai difficulty levels. Did you try on the hardest? I started on 'Coach' (Level 2) and after somewhat dominating (but not as much as you) I moved up to Manager (level 3).

[Galaril]

I came across this on the Baseball Mogul Forums, pretty impressive:

http://www.sportsmogul.com/vbulletin...d.php?t=107020

[Eaglesfan27]

Edit: Nevermind, I was blind. Found the answer to my question in their FAQ.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Ouch. That is not good. I'm glad I didn't buy last night (I was very close a few times.) Is this something that is being looked at in a patch?

How come you ended up getting it?

You should try out Puresim 2007. Its very solid so far. Really having fun with it.