NFL 2019 Season Thread

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

At least you're handling it better than your Colts fandommates, (you know the ones burning his jersey and booing him as he left the field tonight)

If I had spent good money on season tickets (I assume most people at the game did) I might be booing too.

[RainMaker]

Two years ago I got to stand on the sidelines of an NFL game for a half. Watching it from that close makes me understand why people who are financially stable would want no part of it anymore. You can't even begin to understand how violent it is till you stand near it.

[stevew]

It’s not like they’ll be starting 43 year old Kerry Collins and some dude with a blonde mullet like last time.

[albionmoonlight]

Luck plays well for the Colts
Luck is a class act off the field
Luck retires early due to injuries

I'm having a hard time even understanding Colts fans booing him. Leave aside whether it is "right" to boo him or not. I mean, I literally don't understand why they would feel anything but pity for the guy.

[miami_fan]

He broke up with them the week before the prom.

[Butter]

So he decided this during their preseason game?

So weird

[Scoobz0202]

He said he decided within the last couple weeks (or at least that is when he started thinking about it). He was going to tell the team after the game and then there was going to be a presser the next day (today) at 3pm, but then it leaked during the game.


Edit: It's related to his injuries. He is tired of 4 years of Injury - Pain - Rehab cycle. This ankle not progressing was the breaking point. Still in pain.


Related:

Physical toll on Andrew Luck through 6 NFL seasons:
» Torn cartilage in 2 ribs
» partially torn abdomen
» a lacerated kidney that left him peeing blood
» at least 1 concussion
» a torn labrum in his throwing shoulder
» and this mysterious calf/ankle issue that led to this

— Zak Keefer (@zkeefer) August 25, 2019

[Racer]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Luck plays well for the Colts
Luck is a class act off the field
Luck retires early due to injuries

I'm having a hard time even understanding Colts fans booing him. Leave aside whether it is "right" to boo him or not. I mean, I literally don't understand why they would feel anything but pity for the guy.

News broke during the game. Fans were reacting in the moment. I'd bet fans of other teams would do the same if they had a star QB under 30 and it leaked during the game that the player was retiring. I doubt he'd receive the same reaction if fans were given 24 hours to process the information.

[Warhammer]

I don't know, I am a huge Rams fan, and if Goff went through the same crap Luck has, I wouldn't blame him. Luck has been injury plagued the last few years (2018 appears to be the aberration there), and his body was not recovering. He's not yet 30, he's financially stable, why ruin your body if it is telling you its time?

Would I be upset? Hell yes. Would I boo or blame him given the circumstances? No.

[CU Tiger]

So maybe it's too soon for the conversation but based on body of work Luck has to be labeled a bust, right?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

So maybe it's too soon for the conversation but based on body of work Luck has to be labeled a bust, right?

55-33 record
4 Pro Bowls
1 AFC Championship Appearance
171 TDs


That's not the statistics of a bust.

[molson]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

So maybe it's too soon for the conversation but based on body of work Luck has to be labeled a bust, right?

Disappointment more than a full bust.

The biggest thing is maybe that they gave up 3 years of MVP-caliber Manning when they were still very good (11-5 each season), to commit long-term to a new QB that wasn't as good as Manning those three seasons. Maybe Manning would have been more expensive and would have made the team around him somewhat worse, but it also might have cost them a Super Bowl or two.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Racer

News broke during the game. Fans were reacting in the moment. I'd bet fans of other teams would do the same if they had a star QB under 30 and it leaked during the game that the player was retiring. I doubt he'd receive the same reaction if fans were given 24 hours to process the information.

I've browsed around on the Colts subbreddit a few times over the years. The Luck injury drama has been incredibly exhausting to that fanbase (not as exhausting as GOING through it of course...) There were years of detailed reports and little smidgens of news and inferences about his condition. Like analyzing his posture when he's standing on the sidelines, not participating in a practice. Nobody from the team ever seemed to play it straight with them. Eventually it got out that it all started with a snowboarding accident. I can see it being deflating in the moment when they hang on the guy's every move for years and then he calls it quits in this manner, right before the season, after the draft, and when he's still hanging around on the field for some reason. It's probably some low % of fans who would boo, it doesn't take many to hear them, but, I can understand them being frustrated in the moment.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Racer

News broke during the game. Fans were reacting in the moment. I'd bet fans of other teams would do the same if they had a star QB under 30 and it leaked during the game that the player was retiring. I doubt he'd receive the same reaction if fans were given 24 hours to process the information.

The reality is other fan bases would be similarly criticized for that sort of behavior and I am guessing that Colts fans would be right there among the critics.

I am not sure if fans will be as forgiving with Luck as with say Barry Sanders or Calvin Johnson. We have already seen a bit of "not a real man" talk from members of the media. It is not neck surgery like Peyton Manning. They did not have to drag him off the field. The game did not say he was no longer good enough. Have we progressed enough that it is okay that he walk away instead of leaving on his back? I hope they are but I don't know.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

55-33 record
4 Pro Bowls
1 AFC Championship Appearance
171 TDs


That's not the statistics of a bust.

So similar to Tony Romo as a contemporary or
Jim McMahon, Danny White and Jay Schroeder historically ...But picked 1.1 and giving up one of the top 3 QBs to ever play take him....I think that's borderline bust at absolute best.

Btw comps were pulled just by sorting all-time and by wins then win %

[JonInMiddleGA]

In the current climate, I can't say I'm particularly shocked to see people being okay with a guy who just quit. That it's an under-30 who did it isn't a surprise either.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Disappointment more than a full bust.

That was pretty much my reaction to the news. Short of expectations, for whatever reason(s) you want to assign.

[Warhammer]

McMahon had all-time defenses on the other side of the ball. Danny White had plenty of talent surrounding him on both sides of the ball. Jay Schroeder surprises me, I cannot explain that at all.

EDIT: Also, McMahon won a Super Bowl, and had he been healthy, the Bears probably win in 86 as well. Danny White took the Cowboys to 3 straight NFC title games, 80, 81, and 82.

That out of the way, I think you need to split Luck’s performance out from the Suck for Luck the Colts did. I would not call Luck a bust, but the Suck for Luck did not work.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

In the current climate, I can't say I'm particularly shocked to see people being okay with a guy who just quit. That it's an under-30 who did it isn't a surprise either.

His birthday is in 18 days. Not sure him waiting until he was over thirty would make things better.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

His birthday is in 18 days. Not sure him waiting until he was over thirty would make things better.

True. He'd still be part of the same generation.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by molson

I've browsed around on the Colts subbreddit a few times over the years. The Luck injury drama has been incredibly exhausting to that fanbase (not as exhausting as GOING through it of course...) There were years of detailed reports and little smidgens of news and inferences about his condition. Like analyzing his posture when he's standing on the sidelines, not participating in a practice. Nobody from the team ever seemed to play it straight with them. Eventually it got out that it all started with a snowboarding accident. I can see it being deflating in the moment when they hang on the guy's every move for years and then he calls it quits in this manner, right before the season, after the draft, and when he's still hanging around on the field for some reason. It's probably some low % of fans who would boo, it doesn't take many to hear them, but, I can understand them being frustrated in the moment.

I can see to some degree the boos being frustration at how the team handled his injuries, etc.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

True. He'd still be part of the same generation.

So his retirement due to how difficult it has been to comeback from injury, which is why many player retire in their 30s, makes this guy soft?

He came back from one of the most significant injuries for those relying on their shoulder and arm when he came back from the torn labrum (this is the same injury Brees had that led to SD opting to go with Rivers years ago). That ends a lot of pitching and QB careers. So saying or implying he is soft does not carry much weight.

[SirFozzie]

"Forget it, FOFC, It's JonInMiddleGA."

Props to the Colts franchise for doing the right thing with Luck (although it sounds like they've known for at least this week that he wasn't going to continue)

Sources -- Colts won't recoup money from Luck

Despite the fact that they could have recouped $24.8 million from their former quarterback, the Indianapolis Colts have reached a financial settlement with Andrew Luck and will not take back any of the money they are owed, league sources told ESPN.

The Colts essentially are telling Luck to keep it all, even though it is within their rights to reclaim the money.

The settlement was reached late last week, according to a source familiar with the talks

Luck, 29, could have owed the Colts $12.8 million as a prorated portion of the $32 million signing bonus the Colts gave him when he signed his five-year extension in 2016, and another $12 million in roster bonuses he was paid in March. But Indianapolis waived its right to recoup the money and is allowing Luck to keep it all, after the poundings he's taken and all he's given to the franchise. It is, in an official way, his parting gift.

[CU Tiger]

I wonder if given the current climate around injuries he signed a release of some sort for ever attempting to pursue damages from Indy in exchange for keeping the money.

But maybe I'm just cynical

[JPhillips]

That was my thought as well. I'm sure there are 10,000 things to sue an Irsay run team over.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

That was my thought as well. I'm sure there are 10,000 things to sue an Irsay run team over.

But at least a shortage of pain pills is not one of them.

[RainMaker]

The rumor has been that he has damage to his achilles. That it is just a matter of time before it snaps like with Durant. So the odds of the Colts getting a full year out of him was pretty slim in the first place.

From his perspective, he knows it's just a waiting game till he blows it out and has to spend another year in rehab.

Not sure the Colts are giving him a parting gift. They likely know the medical situation. And they can move on to Brissett without Luck being in the rear view mirror the whole season.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I wonder if given the current climate around injuries he signed a release of some sort for ever attempting to pursue damages from Indy in exchange for keeping the money.

But maybe I'm just cynical

I think it's quite possible Irsay wants to paint Indianapolis as a positive place for players to come play so they avoid situations like John Elway refusing to play for them or Eli Manning refusing to play for the Chargers.

Also, if Luck happens to change his mind in the next couple of the years, I'm sure he'd be a lot more amicable to returning to the Colts if they didn't make him pay back a bunch of money.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

So maybe it's too soon for the conversation but based on body of work Luck has to be labeled a bust, right?

No. He was great when he was healthy. Probably more of a "what if?" type of guy. Like what if the Colts had competent management and training staff? What if they had given him a decent offensive line?

[Chief Rum]

If it were my guy, I wouldn't boo at news he was retiring so young. I would be upset for my team, and frustrated with the player if I didn't really think his reason was "good enough." But I wouldn't boo.

That said, no way do I fault the few Colts' fans who booed. Luck basically just crushed their whole season, just two weeks before the season started. He could have had this thought process in February and given the team some notice. That way, they could have prepared for the possibility he would retire, have a fallback in place. But instead he waited and cost the Colts and their fans a whole additional season.

If anything, I would be surprised the boos weren't louder and longer.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The two greatest players on the Lions in the last 30 years (at least) - Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson - retired early and I couldn’t imagine booing either.

Also, unlike the Colts, the Lions did go after both Barry’s and Johnson’s salary bonuses and got their money back. One of the many reasons the Detroit Lions are not a class organization.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

In the current climate, I can't say I'm particularly shocked to see people being okay with a guy who just quit. That it's an under-30 who did it isn't a surprise either.

How dare he not continue to have his body be pounded for the enjoyment of others!

[SirFozzie]

FMIA: Andrew Luck, the Colts and the Retirement That Rocked NFL’s World – ProFootballTalk

The Colts knew about it on Monday, and Luck turned down being put on IR and earning 21 million this year.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

How dare he not continue to have his body be pounded for the enjoyment of others!

This. I just don't get how anyone can question Luck's toughness, let alone the desire to spend the rest of his life as healthy as possible. Sure, the timing sucks for his team, but as is posted in another thread, he could have earned another 20+ mil on IR this season and instead made what I think is a more noble (and courageous) move.

Football is a violent game. I didn't even play at the highest levels but at 56 have osteoarthritis in my neck and upper back, thanks to years of physical pounding. Short term memory lapse, which whether related or not, is not helped by the likely multiple concussions I played through (I had a game in high school I could not remember at all, not even the score)

Not to mention the bizarre outliers like a lacerated kidney and broken jaw. I finished games with both these (jaw in HS and kidney in JC) and in hindsight it makes me more stupid than tough. I am in pain every single day from the game and though I don't regret a minute of playing because what the sport has given me outweighs the bad. I just wish I had listened to my body more at times.

Andrew Luck is listening to his and I respect him for it. Meanwhile Doug Gottlieb calls him out, really? I would take a player with integrity like Andrew Luck any day over a teammate betraying thief like Gottlieb any day of the week! (Gottlieb by the way cried in court when appearing for stealing his teammates credit cards. Pretty 'millennial' in it's own right Doug.

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

The NFL is officially bugged.


And as a Colts fan:


So we go into the season with Jacoby Brisset and Chad Kelly as our QBs? Any good prospects in next year's draft?

Colts Sucked for Luck, now It'll be Tank for Tua.
Brissett is just a placeholder at the position for now.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Meanwhile Doug Gottlieb calls him out, really? .

Don't worry, Gottlieb has now been murdered by Troy Aikman.

https://twitter.com/TroyAikman/statu...806388736?s=20

[Arles]

I don't see why people can't be understanding for Luck and how this is probably the right long term play for him, but also understanding that an entire fanbase (and season ticket holders) just found out they went from Super Bowl contenders to probably missing the playoffs because of an unforeseen retirement.

I think the booing was a bit much, but I think it's reasonable for some fans to be immediately disappointed giving the timing of the news breaking (during a game two weeks before the season). I bet we will see a lot of Colts fans dial it back during the week and show some appreciation for what Luck did.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Colts Sucked for Luck, now It'll be Tank for Tua.
Brissett is just a placeholder at the position for now.

Even without Luck, there's no way they are the worst team in football.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Even without Luck, there's no way they are the worst team in football.

Yup. They were a fringe Super Bowl contender with Luck.

I think that they are still 8-8 without him. It's a good team with a good coach and an average QB. This isn't Curtis Painter coming in.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Yup. They were a fringe Super Bowl contender with Luck.

I think that they are still 8-8 without him. It's a good team with a good coach and an average QB. This isn't Curtis Painter coming in.

Brissett was 4-11 his first time around, but he only had a couple weeks with the team.

Now he has had a chance to learn the system and has a better team around him. I'd say 7 or 8 wins about right. Maybe they'll make the playoffs if the division is weak.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

Don't worry, Gottlieb has now been murdered by Troy Aikman.

Troy Aikman on Twitter: "That’s total bullshit Doug. What qualifies you to decide how someone should live their life? So you’re now the authority on what motivates Andrew Luck? And if his decisions don’t fit into what you think is best for him then you rip him? Guess that keeps you employed on FS1. Nice… https://t.co/w7cyXg641b"

Doug Gottlieb gets "murdered" 6 times a year yet he's still around. He's a freaking cockroach.

[RainMaker]

Where was this anger when Gronk "quit" at 30 years old?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Where was this anger when Gronk "quit" at 30 years old?

He didn't retire 2 weeks before the season started.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

He didn't retire 2 weeks before the season started.

Pretty sure his injury had something to do with it.

Also a bunch of guys will get cut and lose their paychecks 2 weeks before the season. Tough to feel sympathy for the team. It's the rules they chose to play by.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also a bunch of guys will get cut and lose their paychecks 2 weeks before the season. Tough to feel sympathy for the team. It's the rules they chose to play by.

What the hell does that have to got to do with anything?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

What the hell does that have to got to do with anything?

Team can cut a guy when they want. But a player chooses to not play for a team and he's the bad guy? Seems you want it one way.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Team can cut a guy when they want. But a player chooses to not play for a team and he's the bad guy? Seems you want it one way.

Wow, you're really reaching.

There is no corollary to players on the cut list because their presence or absence on the roster does not materially affect the team's chances for success on the season. That's even putting aside the obvious apples-oranges case that you're comparing a player retiring on his own to players being cut by the team.

The reports of Gronk srrongly considering retiring were out there even before he played in the Super Bowl. The Pats were well aware to prepare for him not being on the roster in 2019, and sure enough they went and got other TEs in the offseason.

This is an opportunity the Colts did not receive.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The reports of Gronk srrongly considering retiring were out there even before he played in the Super Bowl. The Pats were well aware to prepare for him not being on the roster in 2019, and sure enough they went and got other TEs in the offseason.

This is an opportunity the Colts did not receive.

He didn't decide his heart wasn't in it after playing so far. He was rehabbing an(other) injury, it wasn't going well, and he decided he'd rather retire than go on IR & try to play in 2020. I don't think the Colts were blindsided by it, and as long as he was honest and giving a good faith effort about trying to get back it's a shitty situation, but not much different than if a starting QB goes down to injury in the preseason (or early in the season I guess).

[SirFozzie]

hell, I saw a joke out there that "the TRUE american way would've been to half ass it, collect $20 odd million on IR, THEN Retire after the season".

I mean, the Colts offered him just that, to be put on IR (possibly designated to return), but he figured to break the injury-rehab-injury-rehab cycle once and for all.

[illinifan999]

I imagine most people are angry because they get paid 40k a year and have to suck it up and return to work injury after injury for 40k a year. Pay me $1 million a year and I can live through injury-rehab-injury-rehab pretty freaking easily.