WW LII -- Clue (SOCIALITES WIN)

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Lathum

socialite here

great....another word lathum can't spell!

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by saldana

great....another word lathum can't spell!

Umm, what'd he spell wrong?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

rules say central time, thread title says eastern time. What gives??

My bad. Deadline is 6 PM Eastern. Rules have been fixed.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Pass: Do ALL players get clues in their PM's or just the primary 6?

All players get their clues in PMs. If you didn't get clues, let me know.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RendeR

IS it just me or was DT's post in greek?

Why wouldn't the wolves help the murderer? they're goal and his are almost the same, kill everyone and anyone to get the win.

Perhaps the wolves and the murderer know differently?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Umm, what'd he spell wrong?

What doesn't he spell wrong?

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Lathum

we really need to think it through all angels before revealing what we know.

quoted the wrong message

[RendeR]

Ok, so we know that we all got clues, lets brainstorm a bit:

What are the benefits of sharing clues?
1)helps us find the murderer
2)helps everyone get closer to individual victory conditions.
3)if enough information is given the murderer could be outed day 1 or 2 as that role shouldn't have any real clues and if they make shit up or decline to join in they will give themselves away.

What are the drawbacks?
1)murderer could contaminate the information
2)players could contaminate the informaation

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by saldana

quoted the wrong message

Ahh see, now THAT makes sense.=)

[RendeR]

Lets add to this that the wolves don't really care a bit about any of the murder mystery crap, they just want people to die, fast. lets hope our seers get lucky asap.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Ok, so we know that we all got clues, lets brainstorm a bit:

What are the benefits of sharing clues?
1)helps us find the murderer
2)helps everyone get closer to individual victory conditions.
3)if enough information is given the murderer could be outed day 1 or 2 as that role shouldn't have any real clues and if they make shit up or decline to join in they will give themselves away.

What are the drawbacks?
1)murderer could contaminate the information
2)players could contaminate the informaation

no way #3 can happen....all the murderer would have to do is sit and wait until a couple of us gave our clues, and then give bits and pieces of a couple different ones and say they were what he/she was given.

honestly, i doubt that even if all of us gave our clues, there would be enough to put them all together to catch the murderer. i am sure pass would have thought about that possibility and made sure there wasnt enough on day 1 to do it.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Ok, so we know that we all got clues, lets brainstorm a bit:

What are the benefits of sharing clues?
1)helps us find the murderer
2)helps everyone get closer to individual victory conditions.
3)if enough information is given the murderer could be outed day 1 or 2 as that role shouldn't have any real clues and if they make shit up or decline to join in they will give themselves away.

What are the drawbacks?
1)murderer could contaminate the information
2)players could contaminate the informaation

What would make more sense, rather than asking everybody to turn over their cards, is to ask players about to be lynched to turn over their cards. That might actually work, since we will be able to immediately evaluate their information (assuming they do get lynched).

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What would make more sense, rather than asking everybody to turn over their cards, is to ask players about to be lynched to turn over their cards. That might actually work, since we will be able to immediately evaluate their information (assuming they do get lynched).

The inherint problem with this is they have absolutely no incentive to do so.

[Alan T]

I thought about this some even before I received my role. We know everyone except the murderer got clues. It doesn't add anyone to the trust list or non-trust list based on having a clue. Sharing the clue does nothing but help us narrow down who the murderer isn't. Sure the wolves or the murderer could lie about it, but that type of information is exactly what we want to get out in day 1-2-3 by encouraging others to talk. Only by catching people in lies can we put together a piece by piece puzzle of who isnt being straight with us.

I haven't heard anyone give me a reason not to share.. and I have no problem sharing a victory with others if they are just as forthcoming with their clues. If someone "hordes" their clues, I guess that will just stink.

So I'll be the first. I was told that the murder was not committed with a revolver and DaddyTorgo did not commit the murder.

Also on the subject of lynches, I think I'll go with the thoughts extended from the last game I was in with no lynch possibilities. No lynch on both days 1 and 2 actually helped the village enourmously. With this seemingly being a pretty wide open game, I think the same thing applies here. Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I'm going to still go with a no lynch here. If people want to know more of my feelings about lynch vs no lynch and why it led me to suspecting Chief Rum that game (when he was a wolf), you can go look in that past game thread (it was the van helsing game I think?)

Vote No Lynch

[Neon_Chaos]

Are voting Day 1, or No Lynch?

Hopefully, it's harder for the Wolves to kill us off due to the rules about rooms and stuff.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

If people want to know more of my feelings about lynch vs no lynch and why it led me to suspecting Chief Rum that game (when he was a wolf), you can go look in that past game thread (it was the van helsing game I think?)

Vote No Lynch

The only problem is what I said after you brought this up after that game: my vote day had absolutely nothing to do with the fact I was a wolf or not. It would have been my vote as a villager, too. So I hesitate to put any value in it whatsoever.

[Neon_Chaos]

Best way to go.

Vote No Lynch

[Chief Rum]

I do agree, though, that throwing out the clues can't hurt. I was told the murder did not happen in the Living Room, and that the murderer is not Telle.

[RendeR]

I'll join the clue sharing crowd, it really can't hurt us unless someone wants to be greedy and win individually.

I was told it was not Schmidty and it did not take place in the bathroom.

[Lathum]

I think it's to soon to reveal information

[DaddyTorgo]

The murder was not done in the Lounge, and it was not done with the Knife.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

meant to have 1 post, but hit enter.

No-lynch actually didn't hurt us in this game, and with the possibility that the wolves will have additional trouble killing people in this game, plus all of the information we can get, no lynch doesn't bother me on Day 1.

VOTE NO LYNCH

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think it's to soon to reveal information

You had best come up with a real good reasoning for this. Only one player has any real reason to not share and thats the murderer. Since he has no information and will be lying out his ass =)

[st.cronin]

I understand trying to narrow down who the murderer is, but I will not be sharing my clues on murder weapon and location.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

You had best come up with a real good reasoning for this. Only one player has any real reason to not share and thats the murderer. Since he has no information and will be lying out his ass =)

because in every game like this we rush to share info and realize after the fact maybe we shouldn't have.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think it's to soon to reveal information

Why? This information only helps the villagers and hruts the wolves. Revealing it doesn't make us targets; actually, it frees us from being targets (at least for this). Our information is already out there; there is no reason to kill us to "keep us quiet".

The wolves and the murderer will offer disinformation, yes, but there are probably at most four of those. If the rest of us offer up our information, that's a lot of "X" does NOT mark the spot on our map to the murderer. And we will gain more information as the game moves on.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I understand trying to narrow down who the murderer is, but I will not be sharing my clues on murder weapon and location.

Care to share why not?

It's pretty likely the murderer isn't going to reveal clues early on, because the longer he waits, the less likely it is that his information "guess" will be contradicted by another's information.

Quite frankly, I am thinking that any resistance to revealing their clues without at least some reasonable rationale for doing so is an indication you're not on our side.

That's not meant for st. cronin alone, but for all people in the game.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Why? This information only helps the villagers and hruts the wolves. Revealing it doesn't make us targets; actually, it frees us from being targets (at least for this). Our information is already out there; there is no reason to kill us to "keep us quiet".

The wolves and the murderer will offer disinformation, yes, but there are probably at most four of those. If the rest of us offer up our information, that's a lot of "X" does NOT mark the spot on our map to the murderer. And we will gain more information as the game moves on.

The problem is there is no way of evaluating what's been posted.

[Barkeep49]

Pass: What happens if a wolf makes a correct accusation?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

because in every game like this we rush to share info and realize after the fact maybe we shouldn't have.

Umm....granted, i've only played 6 games prior to this, but I haven't seen this to be true at all. You might want to try harder.

[Lathum]

Something just doesn't jive with me so far.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

because in every game like this we rush to share info and realize after the fact maybe we shouldn't have.

Not true. Sharing information in the ingredients, spells game by Alan helped us. And I am certain there are others if I put some thought into it. And ones where we chose not to share and it hurt us.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Umm....granted, i've only played 6 games prior to this, but I haven't seen this to be true at all. You might want to try harder.

you may want to not try so hard, we are only 2 hours in.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The problem is there is no way of evaluating what's been posted.

Yet.

I'm not saying we rush off to make a lynch off of this information now. It's foolish to think we'll catch the murderer in a day. But getting the information out there is the first step, and then as each day progresses, we'll know more about who is and isn't lying (based on lynches and kills and reveals). We'll also have more information to go with each day, if I am reading the rules right.

Just because we can't make good calls on it now doesn't mean it won't be good down the road.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Something just doesn't jive with me so far.

Look at it from the original game stnadpoint. in that game you don't want to reveal things because it helps yur opponents get a singular win, in this game we're not looking for a singular win (or at least shouldn't be from the villagers standpoint) and logic dictates that the best direction for the vollage to go is to share what they know and pool info.

What is it about that that "doesn't jive" with you?

I thought they stopped talking jive in the 70's?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Something just doesn't jive with me so far.

So what is it specifically that has you concerned?

[RendeR]

Great, now I'm being pushy. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

Seriously, I want to win, I see the clues as a DAMN fast way to get real close to a winning scenario of finding the murderer.

PLEASE, give us a real reason that sharing info would possibly be bad?

[RendeR]

Man my typing skills suck balls tonight

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Great, now I'm being pushy. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

Seriously, I want to win, I see the clues as a DAMN fast way to get real close to a winning scenario of finding the murderer.

PLEASE, give us a real reason that sharing info would possibly be bad?

I want a reason, too, Render, but I can understand being cautious. I think Lathum and st.cronin and probably others need more time to evaluate things.

If they want to take more time, I hope they say so and then do so. Then we can evaluate things again at that point.

For now, though, I stand by what I said earlier. Until someone comes up with a legitimate reason to keep this information secret, I will regard their silence as a dark mark toward their probable guilt as wolves or the murderer. Once placed, that suspicion will likely not easily be removed.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I want a reason, too, Render, but I can understand being cautious. I think Lathum and st.cronin and probably others need more time to evaluate things.

If they want to take more time, I hope they say so and then do so. Then we can evaluate things again at that point.

For now, though, I stand by what I said earlier. Until someone comes up with a legitimate reason to keep this information secret, I will regard their silence as a dark mark toward their probable guilt as wolves or the murderer. Once placed, that suspicion will likely not easily be removed.

See I'm thinking that the only person who should be averse is the murderer himself, because I think even the wolves recieved clues.

Pass, can you verify this?

[Barkeep49]

Ok I see no reason to not share information: I know it's not Lathum or saldana.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

PLEASE, give us a real reason that sharing info would possibly be bad?

Show me where I said it would be bad?

I said it is to soon.

Do you seriously think there arent safeguards in place to balance the game so it isn't as easy as everyone dumping their info out there?

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Care to share why not?

It's pretty likely the murderer isn't going to reveal clues early on, because the longer he waits, the less likely it is that his information "guess" will be contradicted by another's information.

Quite frankly, I am thinking that any resistance to revealing their clues without at least some reasonable rationale for doing so is an indication you're not on our side.

That's not meant for st. cronin alone, but for all people in the game.

i love when i post something and no one reads it.

all you have done is made it possible for the murderer to have enough information to hide behind.

all he has to do now is take one thing that you revealed and one thing that render revealed and repeat them as the 2 clues he got, and he has an instant hiding place.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

See I'm thinking that the only person who should be averse is the murderer himself, because I think even the wolves recieved clues.

Pass, can you verify this?

The rules state the wolves received clues.. and obviously the murderer knows what the actual murder weapon and location was.

Everyone starts the game with some ability to provide information for us to narrow things down. Based on everyone having 2 different clues out of 3 possible (area, weapon, person).. I am guessing we won't have a complete picture, plus we'll possibly have duplicates.

I doubt we'll be able to start the game knowing who to go after for our win condition, but I think it will help get us on the right start.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Ok I see no reason to not share information: I know it's not Lathum or saldana.

Interesting that you got two of teh same category of information while everyone else got one from 2 of the 3.

nothing important I don't think, but interesting to see.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by saldana

i love when i post something and no one reads it.

all you have done is made it possible for the murderer to have enough information to hide behind.

all he has to do now is take one thing that you revealed and one thing that render revealed and repeat them as the 2 clues he got, and he has an instant hiding place.

I assume the murderer knows the weapon and location. so realistically he only has to list two things it wasn't and he's all set.

Like I said before, we can't take what everyone says at face value here.. What will be helpful perhaps is looking down the road a few days and catching someone in a day 1 lie.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by saldana

i love when i post something and no one reads it.

all you have done is made it possible for the murderer to have enough information to hide behind.

all he has to do now is take one thing that you revealed and one thing that render revealed and repeat them as the 2 clues he got, and he has an instant hiding place.

I don't think so, because one premise of the board game is that no-one CAN have the same clues, its possible that Passacaglia decided to allow it, but for now I'm going to assume there are no duplicates. (and thus far there have been none)

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RendeR

See I'm thinking that the only person who should be averse is the murderer himself, because I think even the wolves recieved clues.

Pass, can you verify this?

I have to believe the wolves and murderer are linked and would be looking out for each other.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by saldana

i love when i post something and no one reads it.

all you have done is made it possible for the murderer to have enough information to hide behind.

all he has to do now is take one thing that you revealed and one thing that render revealed and repeat them as the 2 clues he got, and he has an instant hiding place.

Do you really think we're going to catch the murderer in this manner? Sorry, but I'm not wild on shooting down our most viable plan for catching him on the offchance your wild shot in the dark will work.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Show me where I said it would be bad?

I said it is to soon.

Do you seriously think there arent safeguards in place to balance the game so it isn't as easy as everyone dumping their info out there?

hey someone did read what i posted 3 hours ago!!!