NFL Week 9

[mckerney]

Hobert

[Dutch]

Eh-bear!!! (Hebert).

[Dutch]

Hmmmm....was Billy Joe a He or a Ho Bert...Hobert does sound more right...

[QuikSand]

Bobby Hebert
Billy Joe Hobert (and Tolliver)

I cant remember my own license plate, but this is stuck forever.

[spleen1015]

Holbert I think

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Bobby Hebert
Billy Joe Hobert (and Tolliver)

I cant remember my own license plate, but this is stuck forever.

Thanks QS...I almost feel a little younger for not being completely off base.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by TroyF

2) I hope Talib doesn't go to court over this nonsense. He'd have a case. Simply show the Adam Jones incident from earlier in the year and point out the NFL is inconsistent.

This is why I hope he goes to court over it. Any way to force the NFL to adopt some sort of consistency is a good thing.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This is why I hope he goes to court over it. Any way to force the NFL to adopt some sort of consistency is a good thing.

Can you explain exactly how this would work? Could Roger Goodell or any commissioner write down exactly how this should work and get 100% support from the crowd at large?

[Logan]

I know they made their own bed, but the NFL can't ever win with these things. When the Hardy pictures were released the other day and the outrage started up again, I would have thought someone would have mentioned that the NFL tried to give him a much more severe suspension but an arbitrator reduced it. Maybe it was written somewhere I didn't see though.

[BishopMVP]

Usually there isn't, but I'm not sure there's a fan who understood or was a fan of Pacman only receiving a fine for trying to give Amari Cooper a head injury.

Whether Talib got 1, 2, or 4 games I don't really care. I do agree that what made his incident worse (being the 3rd man in, probably attempting to deliberately cause a serious eye injury when the guy wasn't really paying attention to him) is hard to define in a legal setting and not something I want the NFL to try to define because that would just inevitably lead to loopholes and tons of punishments that don't make sense compared to each other.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

...that would just inevitably lead to loopholes and tons of punishments that don't make sense compared to each other.

How exactly is that different from what is already happening?

[molson]

It's impossible to have punishments that everyone agrees with. Every single sentencing judge that exercises any discretion is going to be accused of this at some point. "That guy got this how come I got this?" It's all subjective, we all have different biases, and we don't all share the same brain. And that's OK, or at least, its unavoidable. Unless nothing in punished and the NFL just gets out of that role. But once they start making case-by-case determinations, there's going to be differences of opinion. I don't think there's some league conspiracy to protect Pacman and to screw over Talib.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

How exactly is that different from what is already happening?

Exactly, it wouldn't be. So why bother going to the trouble of codifying it and defending it in court?

Although digging deeper it does appear the NFL has a codified checklist that Adam Jones didn't manage to make. "incident on field, Bengals penalized 15 yds, didn't swing helmet, Cooper wasn't injured". I mean, I don't like bringing deflategate up, but shit Roger, this would seem to be a place you use "integrity of the game".

Originally Posted by molson

I don't think there's some league conspiracy to protect Pacman and to screw over Talib.

No one does, which is why no one can understand that lack of punishment. But people aren't seriously asking why Jones didn't get suspended, they're just using it to pile on the Goodell/NFL HQ is incompetent bandwagon. And that's a good thing, because they are. The reason people are generally willing to give judges a lot of leeway is that we assume they are smarter than the average person (and yes, that's not always the case especially with electable judges, and people respond by pushing for mandatory minimums etc, but it's the general principle). Of course any punishment system will be arbitrary in the end, but we all know we can get a better arbitrator in there and that's mostly what people want.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The reason people are generally willing to give judges a lot of leeway is that we assume they are smarter than the average person (and yes, that's not always the case especially with electable judges, and people respond by pushing for mandatory minimums etc, but it's the general principle).

That's my point, judges don't get that leeway, nobody does, because this is all subjective. I remember discussions of criminal sentences here where someone will criticize what one judge did by comparing it to what another judge did, or even what the same judge did in a completely different case. Edit: And of course you have uneducated drug addicted defendants making these same criticisms and comparisons - there's no deference for intelligence or education or experience, because its subjective and everyone is positive their view is the correct one. It's literally impossible to have consistency when there's subjectivity and discretion. They could replace the current discipline system with message board posters (the real experts on everything) deciding what to do and you'd still have the same complaints.

Edit: Though, I'd love to hear ideas about how you make punishments (or sentences) more "consistent" if that's the goal. The federal legislature wanted to do that with regard to drug crimes and we got mandatory minimum sentences and sentencing guidelines, which haven't quite worked out great. But people hated the idea of discretion, until it was put into practice.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

That's my point, judges don't get that leeway, nobody does, because this is all subjective. I remember discussions of criminal sentences here where someone will criticize what one judge did by comparing it to what another judge did, or even what the same judge did in a completely different case.

Of course people complain, it's an internet message board. But clearly judges in general are more respected than almost every other profession, and 95% of people support 95% of their decisions, even though those with problems are much more vocal, and much more likely to have personal interactions with you at your job. You don't have to play devil's advocate every time someone brings up a justice system.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

The federal legislature wanted to do that with regard to drug crimes and we got mandatory minimum sentences and sentencing guidelines, which haven't quite worked out great.

Well, they haven't worked out great for the criminals.

[BishopMVP]

This Ray Ray Armstrong story is absurd. They're talking about charging him with a felony for barking at a police dog in the tunnel before the Raiders/Steelers game? Have some self respect Allegheny County Sheriff's office.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

This Ray Ray Armstrong story is absurd. They're talking about charging him with a felony for barking at a police dog in the tunnel before the Raiders/Steelers game? Have some self respect Allegheny County Sheriff's office.

Agreed. The story is absurd

If there's a chance that he did "ruin" the dog, I do think he should have to pay for another. I wouldn't be surprised if the dog is worth a ton of money.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

Agreed. The story is absurd

If there's a chance that he did "ruin" the dog, I do think he should have to pay for another. I wouldn't be surprised if the dog is worth a ton of money.

Having to hold a dog back from attacking a black guy who wasn't touching him "ruined" the dog? Sounds like you need to spend more on training. And I'm not even sure why you have a K9 unit there for anything other than bomb-sniffing.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Can you explain exactly how this would work? Could Roger Goodell or any commissioner write down exactly how this should work and get 100% support from the crowd at large?

Are you suggesting the discipline regime is currently consistent enough?

I'm not proposing comprehensive rigidity. I'm proposing a move away from randomness.

[stevew]

I feel like they don't eject nearly enough players across the league. It's hard to find a stat on the total amount of elections but it looks to be very small. I think personal fouls should be reviewed and guys should be getting tossed immediately out of the game far more often.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Are you suggesting the discipline regime is currently consistent enough?

I'm not proposing comprehensive rigidity. I'm proposing a move away from randomness.

No, I'm suggesting that standardizing punishments would generate it's own problems, it's own PR nightmare, and is overall pretty unrealistic. So I'm okay with the case by case basis. Each issue gets it's own consideration.

[Dutch]

dola: And don't get me wrong, if there is a better way, I'm for it....I just don't know how to accomplish it.

[flere-imsaho]

Isn't part of the problem, though, that some of the punishments are already standardized due to the CBA?

I agree with you, though, Dutch. Trying to create some sort of massive legal framework for punishments would be unwieldy and not likely to create the desired result.

But the current situation is an unholy marriage of the two extremes. Better to see it completely blown up through appeals and started fresh than continuing to be something detracting from the game itself.

[NobodyHere]

I had no idea this was trademarked and surly the courts have some better cases to handle.

Texas A&M suing Colts over use of "12th Man" - Stampede Blue

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I had no idea this was trademarked and surly the courts have some better cases to handle.

Texas A&M suing Colts over use of "12th Man" - Stampede Blue

Hopefully the courts will recognize this phrase was used long before any corporation trade marked it. Ugh....

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I had no idea this was trademarked and surly the courts have some better cases to handle.

Texas A&M suing Colts over use of "12th Man" - Stampede Blue

The Seahawks had been paying A&M up until this season for use of the "12th Man". This year they simply shortened it to the "12s".

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The Seahawks had been paying A&M up until this season for use of the "12th Man". This year they simply shortened it to the "12s".

The stadium still had 12th man in July....guess its changed now.

[Solecismic]

I suppose it's week 10 now, but welcome to Jingle Bells Thursday on the NFL Network.

Must be a benefit for retired Department Store Santas.

[wustin]

I have Chris Ivory on both of my teams..

[thesloppy]

Is it too harsh to call Phil Simms a mush-mouthed dipshit? He finishes only like 50% of his sentences, is king of the malapropism, and misses obvious on-field action repeatedly. I don't understand why he's even kept a commentary gig, let alone remaining part of CBS'es top team.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Is it too harsh to call Phil Simms a mush-mouthed dipshit?

Nope.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I suppose it's week 10 now, but welcome to Jingle Bells Thursday on the NFL Network.

Must be a benefit for retired Department Store Santas.

Hehe...I could even recognize the Bills from a distance...and yes, my first comment to my buddy was..."Damn, it looks like Christmas on the TV.".

[MIJB#19]

Where's the week 10 thread? I want to show off my temporary first place in the Yahoo! football pick'em (Page not found | Pro Football Pick'em | Yahoo Sports.

Edit: Okay, it's just the weekly standings and will last for just a day or three, but still. Overall I'm doing not so bad either, although 7 picks behind first place is a very steep hill to climb.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I suppose it's week 10 now, but welcome to Jingle Bells Thursday on the NFL Network.

Must be a benefit for retired Department Store Santas.

Colorblind Bowl

[stevew]

All the Thursday games will feature color rush uniforms next year.

[NobodyHere]

Harbaugh cuts off Colts-job question: 'Just stop. No comment' - NFL.com

Could anyone imagine Harbaugh and Grigson working together? It would make for a good season of Hard Knocks.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Harbaugh cuts off Colts-job question: 'Just stop. No comment' - NFL.com

Could anyone imagine Harbaugh and Grigson working together? It would make for a good season of Hard Knocks.

"No comment" seems odd if he's happy at Michigan.

[NobodyHere]

I think it's just his way of telling everyone to just shut the f*** up in a polite way.

[Thomkal]

Big week for my beloved Cardinals with first of two Sunday night games in a row. Win and they pretty much control the West. Lose and the floodgates might open with games against Min, Sea again, Cin, GB, Phi, and StL coming up in the weeks ahead.