2022 Beijing Winter Olympics

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

So, about that... Some incidents can only feed the conspiracies...

The real conspiracy is it seems China and IOC are in cahoots to turn a blind eye when there is a non-citizen representing China. No, not talking about supposedly some pseudo dual citizenship via some Chinese ancestry/adoption blood-line ala Gu.

There may be an arcane rule that allows this. But I doubt it, if there were they would have presented it already.

Too late to do anything about it. And assume the US Olympic Committee doesn't care enough to formally protest. It will set the stage for interesting teams in future Olympics as other countries will bid on the top talent.

2022 Olympics: Team China, made in America

Eighteen of the 22 players who dressed for Thursday’s Olympic opener, including every member of the top two lines, were born and/or raised in the U.S. or Canada. They were, therefore, presumably not Chinese citizens. Olympic rules, however, require athletes to be nationals of the country they represent. And it’s unclear how, exactly, the Chinese government fulfilled this requirement.

Multiple players have indicated they were not asked to renounce their U.S. or Canadian citizenship. If so, either Chinese laws or Olympic rules were bent. Smith sidestepped the question Thursday, saying, “When I'm in China, I'm a Chinese. I'm supported by the Chinese, and I'm truly thankful for that. And when I go to America, I'm American.”

Several other North American players walked through the mixed zone and did not stop to answer questions. One, in declining an interview, said: “I don’t think we’re allowed to.”

[cuervo72]

Hmm, I dunno. Get the feeling Bates is more into Chock than the other way around.

Also, brain keeps registering "women's monoboob."

[JPhillips]

I think one of the German hockey players is named Cuntknuckle.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think one of the German hockey players is named Cuntknuckle.

Tom Kuhnhackle, veteran of 232 career games for the Pittsburgh Penguins

[sterlingice]

I am in favor of the monobob - this is a fun idea

SI

[bhlloy]

I'm just here for the hot taeks that the US Gold Winning bobsledder should give the medal back to Canada, or something

[JonInMiddleGA]

Having read the latest decision(s) about dealing with the women's figure skating medal(s), the phrase "Hold our beer" comes to mind.

What a clusterfuck.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Having read the latest decision(s) about dealing with the women's figure skating medal(s), the phrase "Hold our beer" comes to mind.

What a clusterfuck.

It was so clusterfucked that I couldn't really even follow it.

The IOC seems so corrupt and incompetent that it is hard to tell which decisions result from corruption and which decisions result from incompetence. As the old saying goes, they are hard to tell apart from the outside.

[bhlloy]

Unless I’m not reading the full decision it seems like damned if they do and damned if they don’t no? Having a ceremony to give a gold to somebody who everyone knows is likely to have it stripped seems just as counterintuitive.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Having read the latest decision(s) about dealing with the women's figure skating medal(s), the phrase "Hold our beer" comes to mind.

What a clusterfuck.

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It was so clusterfucked that I couldn't really even follow it.

The IOC seems so corrupt and incompetent that it is hard to tell which decisions result from corruption and which decisions result from incompetence. As the old saying goes, they are hard to tell apart from the outside.

Dear Lord, yes and yes.

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Unless I’m not reading the full decision it seems like damned if they do and damned if they don’t no? Having a ceremony to give a gold to somebody who everyone knows is likely to have it stripped seems just as counterintuitive.

Except, it sounds like they won't take it away because she's a minor so banned substances are protected... or something? Russia: "Very strange. All athletes who qualify this year are 15. Good luck for us."

SI

[Edward64]

I can't imagine the physical and mental strain. Wish her the best.

Regarding below "her fellow athletes rushed to her aid", would/should a competitor, chasing her, stop and render aid and possibly give up their chance to medal? I imagine there were plenty of officials & non-competitors around to help but wonder if any competitors have faced this question before in other situations.

A Norwegian Olympic athlete collapsed from exhaustion seconds after a Eurosport commentator had inaccurately declared her the bronze medalist in the 10km biathlon, a sport that combines cross-country skiing and rifle shooting.

Just as she became on track to medal, Ingrid Landmark Tandrevold fell to her exhaustion. At first, she remained stationary, being passed by other athletes. Eventually, Tandrevold managed to begin skiing again, and was on track to be in 14th place just as she had her terrifying tumble right at the finish line.

When the 25-year-old hit the ground, her fellow athletes rushed to her aid. She was treated by medics on the snow before they carted her away.

Norway team doctor Lars Kolsrud told the press that Tandrevold was upset about what had occurred, and it was caused by exhaustion.

[AnalBumCover]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I can't imagine the physical and mental strain. Wish her the best.

Regarding below "her fellow athletes rushed to her aid", would/should a competitor, chasing her, stop and render aid and possibly give up their chance to medal? I imagine there were plenty of officials & non-competitors around to help but wonder if any competitors have faced this question before in other situations.

I think in this case, she had collapsed immediately after having crossed the finish line.

[edited to clarify] They rushed to her aid when she collapsed at the finish line. I don't know whether she fell previously while on the course.

[henry296]

However, I believe the IOC wants her to be ineligible. It is the Court of Arbitration of Sport (CAS) who said she can skate.

[bhlloy]

Exactly - the IOC can't stop her skating, this sounds like usual procedure when an athlete is competing under protest. It would be just as messed up to give her the gold and have somebody off the podium as it will be to have the ceremony in a few months time with the right people anyway. Complete no-win situation for them.

Shitty organization run by idiots yes, but I'm missing something that they could have done different in this particular case.

[Edward64]

Congrats to Norway. They are leading the medal standings (as predicted) and gold medals.

And curling is still going on. 3 weeks worth

[RainMaker]

I guess the question is why is Russia even allowed to compete at the Olympics after about a decade of blatant cheating?

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I guess the question is why is Russia even allowed to compete at the Olympics after about a decade of blatant cheating?

Technically "Russia" is not participating, you won't see Russian flags anywhere. A collective of people from Russia in good standing (not suspected of doping abuse) with their respective international sports organizations are (the abbreviation "ROC" is used during these games and in several olympic sports).

I mean, your statement would imply (everybody from) the USA should be banned just because of the decades long substance abuse in athletics, baseball and cycling (to name the most obvious olympic sports) by some individuals or groups of people they were involved with. I've never seen or read any suggestions like that. And with fair reasoning, is it Michael Phelps', Simona Biles' and LeBron James' fault they was born and raised in the land of Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds?

But it's fair to "tomato or tomato" this, because several sports associations in Russia have been suspected of organized doping programs and those are still the ones sending their members to these games. Most of us do what you just did there: call "the people from Russia" "Russia".

[MIJB#19]

The Dutch speed skating (long track) teams failed once again to bring home the two must win gold medals. Somebody will have to be fired for this, I'm sure.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Technically "Russia" is not participating, you won't see Russian flags anywhere. A collective of people from Russia in good standing (not suspected of doping abuse) with their respective international sports organizations are (the abbreviation "ROC" is used during these games and in several olympic sports).

I mean, your statement would imply (everybody from) the USA should be banned just because of the decades long substance abuse in athletics, baseball and cycling (to name the most obvious olympic sports) by some individuals or groups of people they were involved with. I've never seen or read any suggestions like that. And with fair reasoning, is it Michael Phelps', Simona Biles' and LeBron James' fault they was born and raised in the land of Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds?

But it's fair to "tomato or tomato" this, because several sports associations in Russia have been suspected of organized doping programs and those are still the ones sending their members to these games. Most of us do what you just did there: call "the people from Russia" "Russia".

Kindof. However, you're being a bit glib, right? Russia was literally running a state-sponsored doping program so that's definitely not an apples to apples comparison. USA cycling team wasn't running Lance Armstrong's doping program, he was. There wasn't a state run program that was literally swapping samples - there were individual athletes using masking agents and trying to submit other people's urine as their own to get around the international programs. That /is/ a pretty big difference. Baseball was turning a blind eye and then put in a testing program after it was politically detrimental to them. This wasn't Bud Selig or one of his lieutenants straight up changing samples for Bonds or McGwire or Bonds of Ortiz, et al. It was a sin of omission not a sin of commission.

I mean, the thing with Valieva was that RUSADA didn't mark her sample as "urgent" so it didn't get processed in time. One would think that would be standard protocol, especially going into the Olympics. Considering their past, it's understandable to assume that wasn't exactly a clerical error. You think there are going to be any American athletes or, I dunno, Japanese athletes, or Dutch athletes whose positive steroid samples from a month or two ago are going to just happen to turn up positive around or after the games. I have no doubt there will be American (or Japanese or Dutch) athletes whose tests turn up positive during the games. There probably already have been. But, once you're at the Olympics, you're subject to international testing and higher scrutiny where everyone is playing by the same rules, submitting to the same tests.

SI

[MIJB#19]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough: I'm against excluding everybody who just happens to have the same passport as somebody else that was a proven cheater, regardless of which institutions of organized crime are supporting them. What else can a 'clean' ice hockey player or skier or curler or whateverer born in Russia do to be allowed to go to the olympics? Move to another country and apply for a passport sounds like the only option. We've seen in this thread alone what kind of backlash that can give in your homeland.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Maybe I wasn't clear enough: I'm against excluding everybody who just happens to have the same passport as somebody else that was a proven cheater, regardless of which institutions of organized crime are supporting them. What else can a 'clean' ice hockey player or skier or curler or whateverer born in Russia do to be allowed to go to the olympics? Move to another country and apply for a passport sounds like the only option. We've seen in this thread alone what kind of backlash that can give in your homeland.

Just to be clear. My beef with Gu and apparently the China Hockey team is they were not asked to give up their passports or be dual citizens (apparently not allowed per press reports).

If China did make an exception for dual citizenship, that's fine but they've not been forthcoming. No problem with Zhu Yi who did give up her US citizenship to skate for China (wish she did better).

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Kindof. However, you're being a bit glib, right? Russia was literally running a state-sponsored doping program so that's definitely not an apples to apples comparison. USA cycling team wasn't running Lance Armstrong's doping program, he was. There wasn't a state run program that was literally swapping samples - there were individual athletes using masking agents and trying to submit other people's urine as their own to get around the international programs. That /is/ a pretty big difference. Baseball was turning a blind eye and then put in a testing program after it was politically detrimental to them. This wasn't Bud Selig or one of his lieutenants straight up changing samples for Bonds or McGwire or Bonds of Ortiz, et al. It was a sin of omission not a sin of commission.

I mean, the thing with Valieva was that RUSADA didn't mark her sample as "urgent" so it didn't get processed in time. One would think that would be standard protocol, especially going into the Olympics. Considering their past, it's understandable to assume that wasn't exactly a clerical error. You think there are going to be any American athletes or, I dunno, Japanese athletes, or Dutch athletes whose positive steroid samples from a month or two ago are going to just happen to turn up positive around or after the games. I have no doubt there will be American (or Japanese or Dutch) athletes whose tests turn up positive during the games. There probably already have been. But, once you're at the Olympics, you're subject to international testing and higher scrutiny where everyone is playing by the same rules, submitting to the same tests.

SI

We don't know the extent of doping in American sports before enforcement began. That's part of your point - what Russia did to evade existing rules enforcement. So it's another level.

But before we started caring about amphetamines and steroids and a host of other substances designed to give one athlete an edge over others, these were apparently handed out in locker rooms by trainers, knowing full well that they might cause harm in the quantity they were being consumed.

We will never know just how much MLB teams were complicit in the steroid age - just that it started becoming a big story when Mark McGwire had androstenedione openly displayed in his locker. Then, finally, people started asking about it.

The rules changed and the race to find substances that couldn't be traced began. Who knows what Barry Bonds did to make his head explode in his 30s and 40s? Or how he did it without teammates, trainers and coaches knowing. Do you think the Yankees cared when Alex Rodriguez traveled with what was apparently his drug dealing team? No, as long as he was playing at a Hall of Fame level.

Russia cheated... and they did so in such a clumsy manner that they got caught. What's the right punishment? This feels about right - continued scrutiny over testing, and an official-looking rebuke that doesn't punish the athletes who haven't cheated.

Maybe they're thumbing their noses at us, with the skater taking advantage of lesser punishments for underage doping. Maybe that rule needs to change. But I have a hard time getting mad about it when I know full well what athletes and teams in our major sports did when they could get away with it.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

We don't know the extent of doping in American sports before enforcement began. That's part of your point - what Russia did to evade existing rules enforcement. So it's another level.

But before we started caring about amphetamines and steroids and a host of other substances designed to give one athlete an edge over others, these were apparently handed out in locker rooms by trainers, knowing full well that they might cause harm in the quantity they were being consumed.

We will never know just how much MLB teams were complicit in the steroid age - just that it started becoming a big story when Mark McGwire had androstenedione openly displayed in his locker. Then, finally, people started asking about it.

The rules changed and the race to find substances that couldn't be traced began. Who knows what Barry Bonds did to make his head explode in his 30s and 40s? Or how he did it without teammates, trainers and coaches knowing. Do you think the Yankees cared when Alex Rodriguez traveled with what was apparently his drug dealing team? No, as long as he was playing at a Hall of Fame level.

Russia cheated... and they did so in such a clumsy manner that they got caught. What's the right punishment? This feels about right - continued scrutiny over testing, and an official-looking rebuke that doesn't punish the athletes who haven't cheated.

Maybe they're thumbing their noses at us, with the skater taking advantage of lesser punishments for underage doping. Maybe that rule needs to change. But I have a hard time getting mad about it when I know full well what athletes and teams in our major sports did when they could get away with it.

I guess I think that's a pretty broad and well defined line. In baseball, yeah, my dad (and many others) love to complain about steroid users and keeping them out of the Hall of Fame while he has no answer about how all of his "heroes" used amphetamines. Until 2004, MLB didn't even have testing in place. Technically, it was against the rules starting in 1991 but, with no testing, you didn't even have to skirt around any rules - it was just the honor system, which, really is not much of a system at all for something like this.

That's why I think this isn't a fair equivalence at all. And I'm not trying to define this so narrowly that "only X is the same" and X will never be the same because it's so specific. It would be equivalent if teams or MLB itself were actively changing samples or a team were actively developing new test-avoiding steroids or only testing players they knew were clean or only testing non-star players or warning players well in advance of getting tested or any number of things that would be actively trying to break the system. And, yes, MLB or teams would have to be the ones doing it - not just individual players trying to get around the system.

And, yes, I think that's significantly different than "we just aren't testing" and a 2-page "don't do drugs, kids" memo that was the only MLB policy in place from 1991-2004 (E-Ticket: ESPN MAGAZINE SPECIAL REPORT: WHO KNEW?. And it was just in response to the 1990 Anabolic Steroids Control act of 1990 (Full Timeline of MLB's Failed Attempts to Rid the Game of PEDs | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights, which was part of the larger Crime Bill from 1990 (Crime Control Act of 1990) - Wikipedia. It was more akin to saying "don't do something illegal on company property or you will be punished up to and including termination", which is kindof a "duh" statement of "yeah, if I killed someone at the office, I'd be in trouble but I'm not really worried about company policy at that point".

The state and the Olympic committee they are reporting to are very similar to what was doing that program in the past. I think the better remedy would be that they have to compete under the Olympic flag (like some refugees have done in the past, for instance) and they report to IOC figures and not anyone from Russia

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Technically "Russia" is not participating, you won't see Russian flags anywhere. A collective of people from Russia in good standing (not suspected of doping abuse) with their respective international sports organizations are (the abbreviation "ROC" is used during these games and in several olympic sports).

They're participating. Just don't have the flag or their anthem. Everything else is the same and I don't think even the announcers are playing the little charade anymore.

A compromise would be allowing them to compete in individual events but not team events (if your country is banned as we are led to believe, how are you able to compete in a team event?).

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I mean, your statement would imply (everybody from) the USA should be banned just because of the decades long substance abuse in athletics, baseball and cycling (to name the most obvious olympic sports) by some individuals or groups of people they were involved with. I've never seen or read any suggestions like that. And with fair reasoning, is it Michael Phelps', Simona Biles' and LeBron James' fault they was born and raised in the land of Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds?

But it's fair to "tomato or tomato" this, because several sports associations in Russia have been suspected of organized doping programs and those are still the ones sending their members to these games. Most of us do what you just did there: call "the people from Russia" "Russia".

Cheating has been an issue for some time, but I don't think we've ever seen such a concerted effort by a country. They built a tunnel underneath the testing facility to swap out dirty tests. There is zero remorse and no signs of ever stopping.

It is unfair for athletes who play by the rules to get caught up in it. But I'd it's also unfair to a bunch of figure skaters who have to compete against a juiced-up Russian skater this week.

If you're going to let one country repeatedly cheat, maybe ditch the rules and open it up for everyone. Maybe you wouldn't see the massive dropoff in interest from the public.

[Edward64]

Okay, so it doesn't seem it was an accidental "oh, it was in my vitamin supplements I took or strange herbal team grandma gave me".

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...b3c7d39b7d73b8

The document said Valieva tested at a "2.1 nanograms per milliliter level," which Tygart described as "not a trace level."

"It's certainly consistent with an intentional use," he added.

"The picture it paints is, you've got a 15-year-old. Does she have the wherewithal and the knowledge and the financial resources to find two drugs ... to use to increase endurance reduce fatigue? It's clear there was an effort to use substances and drugs to increase performance," Tygart added.

"I don't think for a second this young athlete had the financial resources or knowledge to take these three substances to increase performance, or where to even get these three substances."

Valieva tested positive for the banned substance trimetazidine in December, which is commonly used to treat the heart condition angina.

"It's using the three that showed the intent of trying three different routes that ultimately give the same impact on performance: increased endurance, reduced shortness of breath, tiredness," he said.

[bronconick]

Slovakia stuns the Americans with a late goal to tie and a shootout win in Men's hockey

[sterlingice]

Can we talk about one of the biggest disappointments of these games: Norway's curling team and their boring pants

SI

[SirFozzie]

So the Men's curling is facing a win and in game against Denmark tonight, a loss and there's a five way tie (for one spot) that who knows who wins. Bad loss in their last game, but 5-4 will be enough to get them into the semis.

[stevew]

I can’t believe they’re going to let Ben Johnson skate now that all this new stuff came out.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

So the Men's curling is facing a win and in game against Denmark tonight, a loss and there's a five way tie (for one spot) that who knows who wins. Bad loss in their last game, but 5-4 will be enough to get them into the semis.

And Denmark isn't very good so it should be winnable, of course the Italy game was too. The top 3 men's teams might be hard to beat in the medal round but maybe they go on a run again. Women's team started 3-0 but finished 4-5 so they're done.

[SirFozzie]

And US win it, so they'll be facing Great Britain in the semis.

[JPhillips]

Well the figure skating sure brought the drama today.

[stevew]

Every 4 years I discover for the first time that a set of curling stones is like $8000-$16000

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

Every 4 years I discover for the first time that a set of curling stones is like $8000-$16000

Eek. There's a local curling club here and they're not a high budget outfit. I wonder how they do it. Also, curling stones are freaking heavy.

SI

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Well the figure skating sure brought the drama today.

At least CAS succeeded in preventing the skater from suffering irreparable harm, right? That is all that really matters.

[CrimsonFox]

https://slate.com/culture/2022/02/ol...aDxtNRWo6_zlsg

[sterlingice]

(We're still on DVR) I've come to really appreciate Weir and Lipinski for announcing figure skating. They were kindof rough last time out but they've hit their stride this Olympics. There's a certain joy that, especially, Weir just brings to the commentary - he really is excited to see these skaters and has positives for each of them - something that was lacking when Hamilton and Bezic, who, to me, came off as catty more than anything.

SI

[Edward64]

Not really going to miss the Olympics. Maybe because this is first time I watched it on streaming and/or there is like 12-13 hour difference but it seemed underwhelming.

IMO 2-3 weeks of curling is stretching it out too long.

[Lathum]

Winter Olympics: Finnish cross-country skier suffers frozen penis in 50km race | Winter Olympics Beijing 2022 | The Guardian

[jbergey22]

Sadly, absolutely nothing memorable for me about this Olympics.

The time zone thing of course hurts but the coverage just seemed bad as well this time around. Where was the hype?

I dont know who many of these athletes are so I need the hype pieces to get me interested and involved in an event. I wasnt seeing much of this at all.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not really going to miss the Olympics. Maybe because this is first time I watched it on streaming and/or there is like 12-13 hour difference but it seemed underwhelming.

IMO 2-3 weeks of curling is stretching it out too long.

Curling and hockey were the only things I had the slightest interest in. No ramp up to the speed skating, skiing, bobsledding events this time around.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, at least with a more local time, you can sit and watch it as it happens, here it was mostly waking up "So and so has won the 1000m gold at the Speed Skating rink" and then you were like "Welp, there goes my desire to watch that."

[bhlloy]

Times weren't so bad on the west coast, but yeah on the east coast you basically got close to a quarter of the events live if lucky?

And with regards to the hype, the US face of the games crashed out before she even got to the final run on more than half her events, the miracle on ice team of college kids got knocked out before the medal rounds... it was a weird Olympics. Arguably the story they spent the most time on was Valiyeva, but you can kind of see why right.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not really going to miss the Olympics. Maybe because this is first time I watched it on streaming and/or there is like 12-13 hour difference but it seemed underwhelming.

IMO 2-3 weeks of curling is stretching it out too long.

The streaming piece is interesting.

I feel like in previous years there was some buildup throughout a network's or multiple networks' programming leading up to the Olympics. Whether it was the sport's trials to see who made the team or just random events that served to reintroduce us to the sport and introduce the athletes. Those events usually pulled me in to at least casually watch.

That probably happened with this Olympics but it probably happened on the Peacock app. That means I had to go looking for it as opposed to just running into it when the college basketball game I was watching finished. I did not go looking for those events. I did not feel any pull to this year's Olympics at all.

[sterlingice]

So we're watching the 2-woman bobsled from last night. It seems like the Germans have better bobsleds, more than they have better pilots. Whereas when everyone had to use the same bobsleds (monobob), the Americans cleaned up.

SI

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Winter Olympics: Finnish cross-country skier suffers frozen penis in 50km race | Winter Olympics Beijing 2022 | The Guardian

I guess that's one guy who is happy to experience the Olympics while streaming again.

[JPhillips]

I don't know where the line is, but personally, 28th isn't worth a frozen penis.

[GrantDawg]

I watched maybe ten minutes. I didn't watch much of the summer Olympics either. Streaming services have killed my interest in it. It was once a novel curiosity every four years at a time when there was nothing much else to watch. Now there are always too many options.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[miami_fan]

Olympics ratings: Beijing Games deliver smallest viewing audience ever - Sports Illustrated

Is this the silver lining of this story?

The Beijing Games did have the largest or second-largest streaming audience ever, with viewers on Peacock, NBCOlympics.com, the NBC Sports app posting an average primetime viewership of 516,000. U.S. viewers logged 4.3 billion minutes of Olympics coverage over 18 days across all platforms.

Streaming increased by 78% in terms of total minutes compared to the 2018 Olympics, with Peacock seeing its “best stretch” of usage since its nationwide launch 19 months ago.

[miami_fan]

Has anyone been watching any of the track and field world championships?
Unfortunately it has mostly been on Peacock though I think it will be on NBC today. If you get a chance, check out the Women's 400m Hurdles. It reminded me of prime Katie Ledecky's dominance in swimming.